251-dmr - Need Some Place for Good Omens Ideas
Need Some Place for Good Omens Ideas

42 posts

Excellent!

Excellent!

The Price of a Life: Death and Dying in Good Omens

In this meta I want to take a closer look at one of the prominent themes I’ve spotted running through Season 2 of Good Omens. While S2 has been billed as the gentle and romantic bridge towards S3, in a few ways it actually had darker tones than S1. If that’s your cup of tea - read on!

The Price Of A Life: Death And Dying In Good Omens

What is the value of a human life? 

This is a question which has been pondered by philosophers far back into the reaches of history. More recently, economists have attempted to put a price on human life, which is then used when justifying the various societal costs associated with governing a population (i.e. healthcare, education). These two different schools of thought are sometimes at odds. Immanuel Kant proposed that humans have invaluable dignity, but not a price - being “not merely something to be used for the ends of others, or traded on the market”[1]. In opposition, value of life calculations, by definition, put a price on the value of an individual.

What side does Good Omens S1 take?

In Good Omens Season 1, one of the significant moral dilemmas, at least for Aziraphale and Crowley, was about whether or not to kill the antichrist.

I've never actually... killed anything. I don't think I could. Not even to save everything? One life... against the universe.

Following their failed attempts to influence Adam’s childhood development, once at the airfield, Aziraphale believes it to be a foregone conclusion that Adam should be killed - eliminate one to save the many. Of course, their attempts fail and Adam faces off against Death, the Four Horsepersons and Satan himself, eventually getting his own way. However, the moral question posed about killing Adam never reaches a definite conclusion.

With the flashback scenes that S1 added to the book, we are shown this same theme when Aziraphale and Crowley attend the crucifixion. The crucifixion is shown in agonising detail here, and gives us an empathetic look at the sacrifice of one life for, presumably, the overall good of humanity. (Although, what metaphysical impact Jesus’ death had in the Good Omens universe isn’t exactly clear). We see Aziraphale and Crowley stand idly by while the Great Plan is enacted.

Does S2 do things differently?

While Good Omens S1 dabbles lightly in the philosophical question about the value of life, Season 2 picks up this thread time and time again - sometimes attaching some numbers!

One of the key mysteries of present-day S2 is the mammoth miracle performed by Aziraphale and Crowley. Registering on the scales at 25 Lazari, this is 25 times the cost of human life in Heaven's accounting system. Presumably, one Lazari is the amount used when Jesus resurrected Lazarus of Bethany four days after his death. As we'll see, this attaching of numbers to human lives is then repeated throughout each of the minisodes.

Firstly we have the flashback sequence with Job and his children. Aziraphale makes the argument that just doubling the number of new children wouldn’t adequately compensate Job and Sitis for the loss of their existing children - since they “quite like the old ones”. The value of human life is not a simple accounting exercise and one life cannot be substituted for another, in the case of the people you love - they’re priceless.

We see this same idea demonstrated again throughout the Resurrectionist minisode. We first meet Elspeth MacKinnon when she is exhuming a body to sell, in order to buy her and her partner a slightly better life worth living. However, the surgeon Dalrymple is not above haggling over human remains. To him this is a business transaction, in which dead bodies are worth no more than five pounds a pop. To Dalrymple, the cost of saving future lives is that others should risk the grave gun gathering bodies which he may then dissect.

Aziraphale is first opposed to anyone being dug up, but then is won over by Dalrymple’s argument, at least until Wee Morag is killed and suddenly for sale. As Crowley says, echoing the Job minisode, “it’s a bit different when it’s someone you know”. In opposition to Dalrymple’s accounting exercises, and, indeed, the 90 guineas with which Aziraphale buys Elspeth's life, Crowley is offering an alternative view. A life is of higher value when it is someone we, personally, know and care for.

We also witness this theme during the 1941 flashback / Nazi-zombie minisode. The magic shop owner warns Aziraphale that he is about to take on a death-defying trick - one which people have died trying, no less! “Your life is worth a lot more than seven pounds five shillings,” argues the shopkeeper. Instead, it turns out that a customer’s life is worth about 27 pounds and five shillings, since he more than willingly accepts that offer - “on your head be it!”.

As human beings, the price we are willing to place on an individual life, how much we are willing to sacrifice for that person, is all dependent on how well we know them.

“He’s just an angel I know”

But it’s the knowing that makes all the difference.

“It’s a bit different when it’s someone you know”

So, for his life, what price are you willing to pay?

The Price Of A Life: Death And Dying In Good Omens
The Price Of A Life: Death And Dying In Good Omens

What if it was “one life... against the universe”?

Lastly, death is the price that all humans must pay, no matter what. As the Metatron asks at the end of S2 - “Does anyone ever ask for Death?”. But those are thoughts worthy of a future post.

Thank you to everyone at the @ineffable-detective-agency as always, but especially @lookingatacupoftea and @embracing-the-ineffable for their feedback on this post.

[1] Nussbaum, M., & Pellegrino, E. D. (2008). Human dignity and bioethics: essays commissioned by the President's Council on Bioethics. JAMA, 300, 2922.

  • concatty
    concatty liked this · 4 months ago
  • smitten-like-anything
    smitten-like-anything liked this · 4 months ago
  • blackthorn-roses
    blackthorn-roses liked this · 5 months ago
  • snenby-with-two-daggers
    snenby-with-two-daggers liked this · 5 months ago
  • maximumpenguinpuppy
    maximumpenguinpuppy reblogged this · 6 months ago
  • maximumpenguinpuppy
    maximumpenguinpuppy liked this · 6 months ago
  • rivercass
    rivercass liked this · 6 months ago
  • emskery
    emskery liked this · 6 months ago
  • portableanimations
    portableanimations liked this · 7 months ago
  • indigo-stars
    indigo-stars reblogged this · 7 months ago
  • justhereforthemeta
    justhereforthemeta reblogged this · 7 months ago
  • justhereforthemeta
    justhereforthemeta liked this · 7 months ago
  • lookingatacupoftea
    lookingatacupoftea liked this · 7 months ago
  • komorezuki
    komorezuki reblogged this · 7 months ago
  • blibirbzy
    blibirbzy liked this · 7 months ago
  • lestelles
    lestelles liked this · 7 months ago
  • zora-db
    zora-db liked this · 7 months ago
  • dragonfire42
    dragonfire42 liked this · 7 months ago
  • transparentdinosaur
    transparentdinosaur liked this · 7 months ago
  • mr-bop-reblogs
    mr-bop-reblogs reblogged this · 7 months ago
  • caeb-ruu
    caeb-ruu liked this · 7 months ago
  • clarityofclouds
    clarityofclouds liked this · 7 months ago
  • backyard-woodchuck
    backyard-woodchuck liked this · 7 months ago
  • churlsgrace
    churlsgrace liked this · 7 months ago
  • ctmnohaynombres
    ctmnohaynombres reblogged this · 7 months ago
  • ctmnohaynombres
    ctmnohaynombres reblogged this · 7 months ago
  • ctmnohaynombres
    ctmnohaynombres reblogged this · 7 months ago
  • ctmnohaynombres
    ctmnohaynombres reblogged this · 7 months ago
  • ctmnohaynombres
    ctmnohaynombres liked this · 7 months ago
  • theastrophysicistnextdoor
    theastrophysicistnextdoor liked this · 7 months ago
  • just-a-bitch-i-know
    just-a-bitch-i-know liked this · 7 months ago
  • whatthedamnhelldude
    whatthedamnhelldude liked this · 7 months ago
  • dnolenw
    dnolenw liked this · 7 months ago
  • paperbunny
    paperbunny reblogged this · 7 months ago
  • paperbunny
    paperbunny liked this · 7 months ago
  • goldenrat420
    goldenrat420 liked this · 7 months ago
  • quillthecrow
    quillthecrow liked this · 7 months ago
  • ineffablefood
    ineffablefood reblogged this · 7 months ago
  • ineffablefood
    ineffablefood liked this · 7 months ago
  • mrsmiggles
    mrsmiggles liked this · 7 months ago
  • catsteinbooks
    catsteinbooks liked this · 7 months ago
  • lab-coat-cat
    lab-coat-cat liked this · 7 months ago
  • drconstellation
    drconstellation liked this · 7 months ago
  • kayleefansposts
    kayleefansposts reblogged this · 7 months ago
  • staringdeadintotheabyss
    staringdeadintotheabyss liked this · 7 months ago
  • crowleys-conscience
    crowleys-conscience reblogged this · 7 months ago
  • summer-fades
    summer-fades liked this · 7 months ago
  • accidentalaxolotl
    accidentalaxolotl reblogged this · 7 months ago
  • foxyj33l
    foxyj33l liked this · 7 months ago

More Posts from 251-dmr

6 months ago

In the end of S1E3 Adam is putting in bed and hearing voices like "you can fix it, do it, change it" and later he wants to fix the world and now I ve watched it and thinking about parallels with azi's "if i m in charge i can make a difference"

In The End Of S1E3 Adam Is Putting In Bed And Hearing Voices Like "you Can Fix It, Do It, Change It"
7 months ago

What was that about Adam's gravestone again...?

I finally got my hands on a 4k copy of the opening credits of GO S2. So, before I write up the huge dissection post, let me just say something extremely fishy is going on in the graveyard portion.

What Was That About Adam's Gravestone Again...?

Thanks to some help from my friends over at @ineffable-detective-agency, we've managed to manipulate the footage enough to read Adam's green gravestone, with some with suspicious results. (here's a closeup, and the transcription I was able to pull off the footage, click to enlarge).

What Was That About Adam's Gravestone Again...?

here lies.... ADAM "I do not understand, surely your __________________ requires ________________________ of ___________." If your senses are tingling, that's because this phrase is actually pulled from Good Omens the novel, helpfully provided by @somehow-a-human's copy below:

What Was That About Adam's Gravestone Again...?

They made is very hard to read indeed, but it does seem that despite Neil Gaiman's sneaky misdirections, this grave is in fact about Adam Young.

What Was That About Adam's Gravestone Again...?

So this gravestone *is* about Adam Young, and yet we know that he's also fine. To reconcile the two, what if we took a lateral approach. After all, there are at least 2 meaning of the word "lies"....

What Was That About Adam's Gravestone Again...?
What Was That About Adam's Gravestone Again...?

When we see the words "Here lies" on a gravestone, we're given heaps of cultural and contextual information to infer that the first meaning of the word "lie" is meant. But if you're using language games and puns all over the place, who's to say that "Here lies..." doesn't mean something entirely more sinister.

What Was That About Adam's Gravestone Again...?

With love, Your Ineffable Detective Agency Our other active members include: @embracing-the-ineffable, @kimberleyjean, @theastrophysicistnextdoor, @maufungi, @somehow-a-human, @lookingatacupoftea, @havemyheartaziraphale, @dunkthebiscuit, and @251-dmr

7 months ago

Connecting Two of Michael's E1 Scenes

A few days ago I noticed that Michael's position sitting at the desk when she's talking to Beelzebub is basically identical to when she's sitting at the desk when the alarm goes off.

I've put the two together, taking out everything in-between, into one clip.

The one scene follows surprisingly neatly into the other. Yet they are at opposite ends of the episode.

It could be a coincidence, a style choice, for these two scenes to be so similar to each other.

Or, these two scenes are actually one scene, in-universe, but we've been shown it split apart.

But if it is one scene, it raises questions.

Because in-between these "two" scenes we are shown the following happening, in the following order:

Gabriel getting named Jim, discovering cocoa, the Terrible Thing, and bringing in the box.

Muriel finding the matchbox in heaven.

Aziraphale and Crowley chatting in the coffee shop.

The fight in the back room and Crowley storming off.

Nina and Maggie getting locked in the coffee shop.

Muriel and Saraqael showing the matchbox to Michael and Uriel.

Beelzebub taking Crowley to hell to talk about the missing Gabriel.

Crowley returning to the book shop.

The I Was Wrong dance.

The hiding miracle.

If the full scene took place early in the episode, this might imply that the alarm went off before the hiding miracle happened. And if the full scene took place late in the episode, that implies that Beez talked to Crowley in hell before getting the call from Michael.

I would love to hear your thoughts on this. Do you agree that these scenes go together? Does it make you question any other sequences of events? Would it make you question what triggered the alarm?


Tags :
7 months ago

The Ineffable Detective Agency Presents: What Happened in Before the Beginning?

Hello Good Omens clue hunters and detectives! I’m super excited to share what we’ve discovered in Before the Beginning. Read on if you want to see what no one else has spotted yet!

The Ineffable Detective Agency Presents: What Happened In Before The Beginning?

To put a long story short, something is “up” about Good Omens - Season 2 in particular. While the eagle-eyed have documented a number of odd things in Season 2 already (summarised here), I’ve never seen anyone call into question what was presented during the Before the Beginning scene. Let’s take a closer look shall we?

Remember this scroll to start the nebula? Well, guess what - it changes!

Here’s the first scroll we see on screen, I’m going to call this the “new” scroll. Note the straight edges and completely pristine look, like brand new paper:

The Ineffable Detective Agency Presents: What Happened In Before The Beginning?

Then suddenly, here’s what it looks like as they start up the nebula:

The Ineffable Detective Agency Presents: What Happened In Before The Beginning?
The Ineffable Detective Agency Presents: What Happened In Before The Beginning?

Whoa, that’s looking pretty old and ragged! It’s got rips, a bit of discolouration, several wavy bends running through it. That’s a significantly more worn scroll than we were just shown. Let’s show that in close up just to be sure:

The Ineffable Detective Agency Presents: What Happened In Before The Beginning?
The Ineffable Detective Agency Presents: What Happened In Before The Beginning?

Yup, that’s certainly not meant to be the same scroll!

During this scene, the old scroll is seen again during the close up of Aziraphale holding it. However, once Crowley instructs him to put it down, it’s the new scroll again. (And then at this point it disappears into hammerspace like in a cartoon, or drifts off into space, never to be seen again).

So... there's TWO scrolls?

Well, yes, but also, no. If you're wondering, “Are they both real scrolls? Are you telling me they had two on set?” the short answer is no, this was done with VFX. To explain why we know this, I’m going to hand over to our resident Art Director, @noneorother:

Hi all, @noneorother here. Sure. So it's mostly to do with the shadow inside the scroll curls and under the right hand side curl. You can see when it's the real scroll that the shadows are all orange or brown, because of sub-surface scattering:

The Ineffable Detective Agency Presents: What Happened In Before The Beginning?

It happens when light partially passes through a thin porous object like skin or paper. So when the scroll is new, it's real. Where they've added "scroll is old now" VFX on top of the shots, it's very well tracked, but there's no more sub-surface scattering because it's VFX, not filmed. So the shadows are now base-black inside the curl and to the right hand side of the image. This is the VFX scroll here:

The Ineffable Detective Agency Presents: What Happened In Before The Beginning?

They already perfectly tracked the astronomy animation into the center of the scroll, so they had all that tracking info just sitting around. It wouldn't have been very expensive to add the "old scroll" the way they did it (the cheap and dirty way).

Thanks @noneorother! So there we have it folks, the Good Omens team have intentionally designed some shots with the old-looking VFX scroll and some without. They had the assets created for the old scroll and the tracking to place it correctly, so how could they possibly make the “mistake” of adding it sometimes but not others? This wasn’t a budget thing. If it were budget related, they wouldn’t have created the old scroll VFX in the first place.

Personally, I think this discontinuity was to tell us, the dedicated rewatchers, that what we initially saw in S2 was not the whole story. There is something else at play during S2. Something that, depending on what we find, may make S3 even more enjoyable.

So, why do this? Is this scene being conveyed from different perspectives? Are we viewing different characters’ memories of the same event? If so, why would that be important? Is someone tampering with past events? Did “Before the Beginning” happen multiple times and we’ve seen a spliced together version? What do you think?

One More Question...

The other question worth asking here (which Aziraphale helpfully asks for us) is “which way up” does the scroll go? Look closely at the central rings.

Is it the top version (small rings to the right)?

The Ineffable Detective Agency Presents: What Happened In Before The Beginning?

Or the lower version (small rings to the left)?

The Ineffable Detective Agency Presents: What Happened In Before The Beginning?

... and what happens if you create a nebula upside down, I wonder? Here I’m reminded of the Nightingale Sang in Berkeley Square lyrics:

The moon that lingered over London Town Poor puzzled moon, he wore a frown How could he know we two were so in love The whole darn world seemed upside down

In a season where something is going "Down in the Up", and the answer to Gabriel’s mystery is achieved by turning the delivery box upside down, this is yet another up-down reversal we can add to the list!

...................................................................................

If you’ve been following our Good Omens posts up until now, you’ll be aware that this is not the only time scenes have been inconsistent or discontinuous. If this is new to you, please check out my summary post on Season 2 discontinuity here. For more of our posts, plus a collection of Clues and metas from all over the fandom, see here.

However, there is still more to come, so watch out for future updates. If you’re not currently puzzling over Good Omens and would like to join in, please do! We’d love to hear what you find - you can use the tag #ineffable mystery.

Thank you as always to all the lovely people at @ineffable-detective-agency, with special thanks to @noneorother and also @embracing-the-ineffable.

7 months ago

This is truly awesome work. I don't think I would have had the patience.

The Ineffable Detective Agency presents: Decoding 1941 Hell – The Hidden Morse Messages

The Good Omens team never fails to surprise us: In the Hell scenes set in 1941, there are subtle beeps in the background that many might have missed: morse code messages! 

We took the time to decode these messages from about 5 minutes of the show – some parts are easy to identify, some parts are really hard due to overlying sounds or noises. 

We used the 5.1 audio and selected only the channel with the morse signals. Check out an easy snippet – which line is it? :)

Then, we applied high- and low-pass filters to emphasize the code’s pitch around 1360 Hz. Some of us have pretty sharp ears, some of us worked with the frequency spectra to mark short and long signals as well as pauses in between. 

Here is what we have heard or seen, together with some facts and thoughts on the lines. Let us know what you think!

S2E4 06:19 to 08:23 “Have a miserable eternity”

The Ineffable Detective Agency Presents:Decoding 1941 Hell The Hidden Morse Messages

Here are the pieces we have successfully decoded: 

HAVE A DREADFUL ETERNITY

We are wondering why this is different to the text via loudspeaker as well as Furfur’s “have a miserable eternity”...

TOMMY’S A LEGEND

Do we know a Tommy?

1) There's the Welsh magician/comedian Tommy Cooper (his magical act specialized in magic tricks that appeared to fail), who was the inspiration for the red fez in the magic shop. Cooper died live on television suffering a heart attack. :(

2) There's also the lead character Tommy in Brigadoon, the plot of which feels seriously GO-coded. There is a magic village hidden outside time that only appears in Scotland once every 100 years and is connected to the rest of the world with a bridge, outsiders who find "clues about the village and its people that make no sense", and a plot about unlikely lovers who are separated (because one "can't just leave everything in the real world behind"), and an ending that reunites the lovers against all odds because of the strength of their love ("I told ye, if you love someone deeply enough, anything is possible ... even miracles.")

PAUL’S OUR MIXING HERO

Could that be the Re-Recording Mixer PAUL McFADDEN?

ABANDON ALL HOPE YE WHO ENTER HERE CHEER UP IT’S ONLY ETERNAL DAMNATION ABANDON ALL HOPE YE WHO ENTER HERE CHEER UP IT’S ONLY ETERNAL DAMNATION ABANDON ALL HOPE YE WHO ENTER HERE CHEER UP IT’S ONLY ETERNAL DAMNATION ABAN

The phrase "Abandon all hope, ye who enter here" is a quote from Dante’s Inferno, Prelude to Hell, Canto III, Vestibule of Hell: Dante passes through the gate of Hell, which bears an inscription ending with the phrase "Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate". So, the minisode is THE place where we get quotes from the two most famous literary accounts of Hell – with Furfur's quotation of Paradise Lost in the dressing room at the Windmill Theater: "In dubious battle on the Plains of Heaven". 

S2E4 09:16 to 10:09 “Processing the Nazis”

The Ineffable Detective Agency Presents:Decoding 1941 Hell The Hidden Morse Messages

ABANDON ALL HOPE YE WHO ENTER HERE CHEER UP IT’S ONLY ETERNAL DAMNATION ABANDON ALL HOPE YE WHO ENTER HERE CHEER UP IT’S ONLY ETERNAL DAMNATION

S2E4 11:07 - 13:12: “The offer to return as Zombies”

The Ineffable Detective Agency Presents:Decoding 1941 Hell The Hidden Morse Messages

These two minutes are very tricky: while in the first half it is ok-ish to identify the signals in the spectrum, the second half is overlaid by so much noise… – yes, we are calling the dialogues and sounds in hell noise now :D – that we chose a different approach. 

It looked as if the sequence starts from the beginning, so we compared both parts, and now we are quite sure that it is the same pattern. 

The Ineffable Detective Agency Presents:Decoding 1941 Hell The Hidden Morse Messages

DO NOT LICK THE WALLS HEAVEN LOOKS DOWN ON YOU BECAUSE YOU ARE PATHETIC ABANDON ALL HOPE YE WHO ENTER HERE CHEER UP IT’S ONLY ETERNAL DAMNATION DO NOT LICK THE WALLS HEAVEN LOOKS DOWN ON YOU BECAUSE YOU ARE PATHETIC ABANDON ALL HOPE YE WHO ENTER HERE CHEER UP IT’S ONLY ETERNAL DAMNATION DO NOT LICK THE WALLS HEAVEN LO …

So those are the sections we are pretty certain we have correct. However, there is one section we are still unsure on - maybe you can help?

Back to S2E4 06:19 to 08:23

We have been fighting hard with the first six seconds, before “HAVE A DREADFUL ETERNITY” and we think it is:

SHE’S IN MA PHONE

Who are we talking about now?

The Ineffable Detective Agency Presents:Decoding 1941 Hell The Hidden Morse Messages

Do you have any other ideas of what this could be? If it is “She’s in ma phone”, what does that mean? Or is the S just noise and it starts with an H? Or even with a B – BE’S IN MA PHONE?

So, what are your thoughts on all of these messages? Why go to the effort of putting morse code here? Is it a fun easter egg, or something more? And why say “dreadful eternity” in morse when the quote used in the show is “miserable eternity”? We have so many questions!

Spoiler: There is more code hidden throughout the series.  Let us know what you see or hear!

-... .    -.- .. -. -..    - ---    . .- -.-. ….    --- - …. . .-. 

An amazing joint effort with @noneorother, @kimberleyjean, @thebluestgreen, and @embracing-the-ineffable at the @ineffable-detective-agency

See more of our posts, plus a collection of Clues and metas from all over the fandom, here.