New Fans About The Plot Changes In The Show: Have Faith In Rick, It Will Make Sense Later

New fans about the plot changes in the show: have faith in Rick, it will make sense later

me, who has been in this fandom for over a decade and absolutely has NO faith in that man:

How Sunday is Perfectly Morally Gray

Original thread on Twitter

Sunday is a misguided savior—made to believe he is the sole salvation of all, who was willing to be the lonely scapegoat/sacrifice/host of a place where everyone else but him lives in a beautiful never-ending dream.

Repeatedly during 2.2, Sunday alludes to a story about the Charmony Dove and how he believes an injured bird who can't fly should be caged, pampered and fed to live the rest of its days in comfort. It is alive, that is what matters the *most*

Sunday's thoughts to me probably go—Why can't we be all caged like the Charmony Dove? Where is the place that we can exist without predators and hardships? Everything should always be nice and unchallenging, we should just leave in perpetual peace and happiness and indulgence

This idea of a paradise free of suffering is reflected in the "sweet dream" of Penacony, but Penacony itself is fueled and fed by its dreamers who slowly lose themselves as the dream eats away at them.

So Penacony can't be the paradise, there needs to be a better, a newer dream that someone will bring forth so that everyone can be the Charmony Dove in the cage. No more hardships, no more sadness, no more disease, no more death, everyone lives their best lives.

Sunday was brainwashed into thinking HE would best suit as a sacrifice to these needs, he was ready to be the lonely host of this new and so much better dream where everything is all good. He designated himself as the cage, he is the sacrifice so that everyone else can have it good.

Everything about this heavily references an old short story by Ursula Le Guin called "Those who walk away from Omelas" which is basically a story about a wonderful utopia called Omelas where everything great and stuff, BUT it comes with the price of one single child suffering very badly

The story details how most people are horrified to learn about this child who lives in total abject misery, darkness and filth, but they see the utopia they live in and go "this is fine, this beautiful paradise is all worth the suffering of one person"

But SOME people can't deal, even just one person suffering and not being part of utopia is a no go, it's not worth it, so they "walk away from Omelas" and go somewhere not better objectively, but just away from that place and that price they had to pay for utopia

Sunday literally wants/offers himself up to be this child. He is willing to be the sacrifice so that everyone else can live happily. Because, selfish as it is, he feels like everyone should be put in a gilded cage so they can have it good and easy.

There's a very misguided savior complex here where he thinks everyone should be subject to this sort of "salvation" like there's a special mindset here of Sunday's, self-sacrificing and very Catholic that HE can choose what is good for others and be willing to pay the price for it

And like, it's terrible but also commendable at the same time. Sunday says if you are weak that is fine, he will give you a dream where you can just live your """best life""" and be ""happy"" but is it really happiness if it's "fake"/handed to you on a platter and decided for you

But the message of Penacony says dreams are just dreams and you should wake up and strive for it, not live in the dreams. Omelas says if even just one person has to pay for your paradise it will never be worth it.

Sunday is terribly misguided, was brainwashed/conditioned to believe this, using his childhood grief to perpetuate a misguided ideology where he will basically Jesus himself for a thing that is objectively not really any good for anyone.

But like, he is rather straightforward as a character and yet his motivations and what thoughts he might have while believing in this is so so fascinating…

Anyway I stop yapping maybe don't hate Sunday, maybe read Omelas

PS: Does Sunday think he is unworthy of his own paradise because he failed to save his mom if so that's so Catholic of him dude needs therapy

Still not done reading wottg, but here are some of my thoughts as memes:

religious references i noticed in 2.3

sunday and robin centric with mentions of jade and gallagher!

it's already strongly established at this point that sunday is a jesus figure, what with his overly compassionate nature and sacrificial lamb role in the designs of the dreammaster among other things, but i noticed most prominently starting with his boss fight that he's starting to be painted in a lucifer-esque light as well.

beginning with the obvious, sunday starts to become too prideful, declaring boldly that he will become a scorching sun that will burn away all darkness, then attempts to rise to the level of an aeon/god while essentially rebelling against xipe/god in the process. then, in his failure, we have his iconic scene with robin: an angel falling in defeat, which strongly calls to mind another fallen angel, lucifer himself.

continuing this theme, we have him cast out of penacony, an escapist dreamscape fantasy haven, or "heaven" rather. but penacony is in this regard also comparable to another haven mentioned in religion, the garden of eden, which ties in with the references to genesis and the creation of adam that we see in his boss fight and overall character.

and thus sunday is banished from eden, which brings us to jade, who from her splash art and femme fatale temptress role is strongly tied to the serpent in the garden. during their interaction, we have sunday in chains, which reminds me of Peter 2:4; "For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment;" (New International Version). jade also makes explicit references to lucifer at this point, citing that sunday has had a "fall from grace." she then has a line of dialogue that i adore: "go now, you are free, o chosen one who dared to exceed his bounds. sever your wings, descend to the mortal realm, and walk their lands. see what this world is truly like." in this line we have references to lucifer in "who dared to exceed his bounds. sever your wings," then jesus in the second half of the quote. "see what this world is truly like" also makes one think of adam and eve seeing the world beyond eden for the first time- but anchoring us to the theme of jesus again, the whole interaction of jade coming to "tempt" sunday while he is at his lowest and most desperate echoes The Temptation of Christ, where the satan comes to jesus while he is fasting in the wilderness after his baptism and attempts to tempt him. for his last temptation in this story, satan tempts jesus to worship him in return for all the kingdoms of the world, which is strikingly similar how the IPC, especially jade, works. but like jesus, sunday rebuffs the "devil's" temptations.

there is someone who falls into the devil's trap however. just as eve had taken the forbidden fruit, robin agrees to a deal with jade, the price of which sure to be anything but cheap. robin is evocative of several biblical figures as well throughout her arc, though more subtly than her brother. first of all, mirroring xipe in their multiplicity by being an idol actress of many roles and faces, as well as being the most prominent familial figure to sunday, robin may bring to mind the mother mary in her many epithets under the catholic faith. aside from this, being a major driving force for the movement of the plot and a singer that inspires strength and action in those around her, she also emulates the holy spirit within the holy trinity. and yet, robin can also reflect less immaculate characters- while the figure of judas is most straightforwardly represented by gallagher, he eventually emerges as a guardian angel figure to the trailblazer and co. it is instead robin, regardless of her intentions, that makes the great betrayal by turning against her messianic brother to help the trailblazer defeat him. following the boss fight, in 2.3 we see robin filling in for sunday in his absence, taking care of responsibilities to penacony and the family that would have fallen to him, such as acting as a spokesperson. in the dialogue for this part, characters affiliated with the family, including robin, make it a point to avoid mentioning sunday directly. particularly with robin, there are several instances where she attempts to bring him up, but appears to hold back, most markedly when she addresses the crowd and shifts to thanking them on "behalf of herself" instead of her brother. these details parallel robin to the apostle peter, who denied jesus after his death, but also took on the role of the first pope of the christian faith.

so far, these are all the religious references/connections i was able to make from the latest patch with sunday and robin specifically. if i missed anything, do let me know and i hope you enjoyed this!

sure Annabeth seeing the fates cut the string is something that is interesting and even arguably powerful in a way but like, at the end of the day it's not about who's closest to Luke? Percy is the one to see the string cut because its foreshadowing the outcome of the great prophecy... and the great prophecy is specifically about Percy and Luke. "A half-blood of the eldest gods" and "the hero's soul, cursed blade shall reap." Like Percy and Luke's paths are quite literally woven together by design. By fate. They are foils. They are mirror images. They are figure heads of the opposing sides. Yes, Annabeth has deeper, more personal ties to Luke and her belief in Luke's goodness is central to the story, but it's Percy's decision to hand Luke the dagger and Luke's decision to take his own life that ends the war. So, if Percy truly does not end up seeing the fates in the show at all, I'm afraid we've truly lost the essence of the plot.