The Problem With Marinette Is That Claiming Her As "the Best Ladybug Ever" Or "the Best Leader" Gets

The problem with Marinette is that claiming her as "the best Ladybug ever" or "the best leader" gets moot when there's no measure. We hear nothing about other Ladybugs in the past, so there's no one to compare to as "the best Ladybug ever". And as "the best leader", there's also no one to compare her to. Of course she'd be the best leader—you can call yourself that however you want because there's no competition!

And as a "leader", she gets next to no challenge taking on a leadership role. She's just good at it. The point of writing a character, especially a main character like Marinette, is to challenge them. Give them struggle. Marinette doesn't struggle as a leader. She either makes a coincidentally-good choice with no backing from the story whatsoever (which is 90% of the time) or she fucks up and is told it's not her fault.

Every time Marinette forms a "team", everyone is magically amazing and is 100% obedient to Ladybug. If they weren't obedient (like Kagami) it gets resolved in the episode and then they're 100% cooperative like the rest. There's a difference between being a leader and just plain being the boss. Being the boss means you get the final say in choices and people do what you say. A leader inspires, leads, and is a big responsibility that should be treated as such, because your choices strongly impact the lives of the people that trust you.

I 100% agree on the five-man band. The "temporary heroes" concept feels just like a cheap excuse to make more costumes, but a single consistent team with their own dynamics—not just as heroes but also people—would help not only challenge Marinette's abilities, but to actually enrich the story and introduce more arcs that could help us become invested in what the show tries to preach.

Any fanfic I write always uses the original five-member team, because they didn't need to go away. It didn't need to change. And frankly, giving so many people different miraculouses for no other reason than "Marinette thinks they deserve it" actually devalues the importance of the miraculouses, since apparently anybody will do.

I like ML because it has a formula that I've never seen in superhero genre before, a girl as a leader whos also the brain of the team who's also one that have little to no emphaty paired with a boy who's the heart of the team that also a team mom yet the brawl at the same time. That premise is so good because usually it's the girl who is the heart of the team so this formula is good... In concept.

The problem is that the leader, aside from lacking in emphaty departemen is also very avoidant and self centered. Way too self centered to even notice the problem in her team and that's a very dangerous line to walk on. Of course usually this problem would be fixed when the heart of the team try to talk to the leader, that's how it's usually goes, right? Except the leader either keep dismissed him or outright ignore him which makes the conflict prolonged. The writers seems to be saying that she could do everything, even comforting her own teammate which she failed spectacularly.

Even now as s5 ended, I haven't seen Marinette as the leader, try to talk to Adrien about the problem. There's just no growth on her part. In fact, she double down in her secrets. At this point they're basically just keep the false peace.

In Timetagger Bunnyx said Ladybug is the best team leader, but with current dynamic and her lack of growth as of current, I feel like that assessment is as false as Fu's saying Marinette as the strongest Ladybug. Considering he only know ONE Ladybug holder. There's no base in those praise, just pure bias.

Yeah, like there's no growth going on for Marinette but that's probably because all the traits we see in her, being self centered and lacking in empathy, the writers didn't intend it. That's why there isn't an arc planned to resolve it. And it makes people claiming she's the best Ladybug ever when she doesn't have much to show for it under her belt.

But she ain't special.

I'd be ranting all day if I had to list every character that has a trait (good or bad) we all see but I doubt the writers saw it too, like Adrien being Marinette's equal or Chloe coming off as more sympathetic than intended in the early seasons. But then, when they do notice a character flaw a notable chunk of the fandom complains about... you get bullshit like Derision (to address Marinette being a "stalker"). Honestly, I'm more afraid of what they'd do to rectify this.

Funnily enough, with a quick google search, one could easily find out how mayoral elections happen in Paris. One, you don't get to vote the mayor. You vote the city council, who in turn will vote the mayor.

So for Ms. Bustier to become mayor, she'd have to have been on the city council (which is a public election) and then compete with André on said city council to become mayor. Makes one wonder how TA butchered Parisian mayoral elections when one google search will get you all you need to know.

Saw the Mrs. Bustier ask- and even more unbelievable than her winning is them getting an election together so quickly. You're talking months, campaigns, organizing et al. THAT all has to happen even before she can BEGIN to make her changes(if we just assume she has the powers of a dictator like Andre did and not an actual elected official) The time frame is beyond compact to just plain silly. Not even fun silly, just 'you aren't even trying'.

Don't forget how Ms. Bustier did most of this after giving birth to her baby.

Now, I'm not a woman myself, but I'm pretty sure after carrying another human being in my body for almost a year, going into politics isn't something new mothers are supposed to do.

I don't remember the exact phrasing anymore, but I remember seeing something that said: plot twists are not there to surprise the audience or shock them. They're there to enrich the story.

Basically, don't focus on the shock value. Focus on how the plot twist impacts your story and the characters in it. If your audience guesses your plot twist from subtle foreshadowing, then that's good. If your plot twist has shock value but none of the enrichment, then it's a useless foreshadow.

I miss the "Gabriel is Hawkmoth" foreshadow during Simon Says and the book Adrien found in Volpina. Since the episodes are pretty close together, it works. But then later episodes with plot twists just fail miserably, with no other answer except "we already wrote the script, so deal with it".

I think part of what fails in the Chloé betrayal and Adrien/Felix sentimonster thing is that in order to foreshadow correctly, attention needs to be paid to these specific characters, so the screen has to shift to them and their personal lives. But 99% of the episodes center around Marinette and how she navigates life, so there's next to no focus set on them unless she's involved—and unfortunately, putting her in the loop would be too problematic to address in the show's long run.

The reason behind using Chloé early on is actually pretty simple. The writers for ML have never met a twist they didn't like. they seem obsessed with outsmarting their audience. ( target 6-10yr olds, go team) Everything is a red herring of some kind until it isn't bit it is but not and whoa did we blow your mind yet?

I'm reminded of an OSP quote along the lines of 'You can only surprise your audience on the first viewing, but a good narrative can be enjoyed any number of times.'

Exactly. Plot twists aren't just there to surprise the audience. They also give rewatch value to the work.

Take Puss in Boots: The Last Wish for example. The twist of the Wolf actually being the Grim Reaper is shocking, yes, but rewatching the movie gives new meaning to the things he does. Just rewatch his first scene and see what I mean. Not only does the Wolf appear from out of nowhere like a ghost, he also points to the word "Dead" in the "Dead or Alive" on Puss' wanted poster, and wields a pair of sickles as his weapons.

It also makes you rethink the things he says to Puss during their conversation.

"Been following you for a long time." - The Wolf has taken eight of Puss' nine lives, so he's more than familiar with him.

"Everyone thinks they'll be the one to defeat me. But no one's escaped me yet." - Being Death itself, the Wolf has been there for everyone's eventual passing.

"So I've heard..." - A direct response to Puss' claim that he laughs in the face of death, which the Wolf is naturally insulted by.

Plot twists and foreshadowing go together well, but you need to make sure the audience has enough hints to either figure it out themselves or to recognize the buildup to the twist on a second viewing. Miraculous Ladybug does neither of those. Things like Chloe's betrayal and the other rich kids being Sentimonsters just come out of nowhere and don't hold up when you rewatch earlier episodes and see no foreshadowing for those revelations.

Even with the concept itself being overall problematic, it's so weird too when taking the characters into context. I can see why Colt Fathom would do this (he is a whole other can of worms here) but I don't understand why Emilie and Gabriel would do it.

With the little information we have of Emilie's character, she's supposed to be the kindest, most loving person anybody's ever known. I just don't understand how they're so desperate to have a child that turning to magic is their go-to. Is there no IVF? If not IVF, why not adoption? Based on how Emilie is painted to be, I'm sure she can still wholeheartedly love a child she didn't birth.

So why even make Adrien a sentimonster? What's the point?

And as for Félix... the idea that Colt, with or without his wife's permission, can basically make her pregnant with a sentimonster is kind of disturbing to say the least. And why would Emilie give him the Peacock Miraculous to get Amelie pregnant, knowing how he is, when she's basically been described to be a literal angel?

Tell me, do you think making human babies with the Peacock Miraculous is pretty f*cked up?

On both paper and in the deeper narrative - extremely so. You've basically created a living, breathing, growing creature you can control and delete on command once you get bored (and with a very fragile remote control depending on what gets used as a amok). The show says that they're no different from humans, but the way they present the entire thing sure doesn't match the claim (or at least for the non-human looking sentis).

And the controversies with it get worse when you consider that there's no actual permanent solution to the above - your only options as a Senti are basically "put your amok in a secure place no one can find and hope for the best" or "pray that the next Peacock holder isn't a complete psychopath who hates your kind/see you as fakes rather than real people."

Almost.... depression is trying to get back into my life after years of no contact, and I don't want to open the door.

Unfortunately the little bitch keeps tapping on my windows.

For me: Miraculous Ladybug and High Guardian Spice (both of which I have fanfics for)

I think I finally understand why people write fanfiction. it’s so aggravating when a piece of media doesn’t engage with its premise - like maybe the implications were too dark, maybe if we followed it to its logical conclusion the main character would be irredeemable, maybe it’s too complicated, maybe it’s too flavourful (weird, horny, unflattering) so we only get a liiiitle bit of it sprinkled on top of an otherwise generic story

whatever the reason, we end up with a diet lite homogenized version of what the initial story promised us. it makes me pace around my house biting at my thumb, going “no…..no it could’ve been better…..I could’ve made it better…..”