Being A Darkner Sound Like It Suck

being a darkner sound like it suck

like, you are not even real,bound to stay trapped within your realm,your memories arent probably real,you are litteraly living in the darkness as whoever is the god of this world gifted the lightner with being real and superior.you will never know what does the real world look like,you are just here to serve the lighter,you are litteraly an object. you cant have hope nor dream as you are not a real person.but you are ignorent of that,and if you unfortunatly discover the truth,you fall into insanity,you’ll finish all alone as the place that you know seem like fantasy(cuz they are).

i mean i dont want to be these guys

like, if you know that no wonder why jevil and spamton are crazy

Why is Swatch a class traitor???

Thank you very much for asking :)

In this post I'll be using he/they pronouns interchangeably to refer to Swatch. I enjoy the idea of they-pronouns Swatch but at the same time I refuse to believe that the only instance of canon pronoun usage to refer to him is misgendering, as some people posted about before, because that's not how Toby flies.

That being said, before talking about Swatch specifically, I need to explain the logic behind this reading of them. Swatch being seen as a "class traitor" is derived from the marxist idea of class consciousness, or in different terms, the fact that people who are in the same economic position understand each other and therefore owe each other solidarity, the idea that people need to be conscious of their position in their society and side with people who will help their situation and improve their lives.

In this sense, a class traitor is a person who, despite understanding their position in the social strata, refuses to side with their peers and instead either shuns them to appeal to a higher social class, to "appear as one of them", so to speak, or completely refuses the idea that they are part of that class to begin with. A good, palpable example, are snobbish, classist doctors. Doctors are employed by someone – be it a hospital, a clinic, an insurance company, the government in some countries, even in private practice, etc, but they are not, by Marx's definitions, owners of capital, aka someone with the exorbitant amount of money that allows them to control production in a large scale (in other words, conglomerates and billionaires). However, having a higher material condition on average, and having attained this social position through study that was allowed by a higher material condition in the first place, some doctors don't realize that they are just as much of a proletariat as the poor man they are treating, and thus exhibit behavior like discrediting, ignoring or even being hostile to people they identify as lesser, despite the fact that they're supposed to be together, sociologically speaking.

What the fuck does that have to do with Swatch, you ask? Well, Swatch is, to put it bluntly, literally a servant to aristocracy. They are, by definition, part of the working class, and therefore they owe solidarity to their fellow workers. Spamton, in direct counterbalance, is a member of the working class who has been elevated, by one way or another, into a position that makes him just as, if not more powerful than aristocracy. Spamton had become burgoise, though he still retains his origin as a working class salesman, that much hasn't changed in him, as far as we can tell. This seems to be going on just fine, if we are to believe Spamton's response in the Q&A, until Spamton needs a support system, when his business goes belly up to the point that he ends up homeless.

I really need to emphasize this point. Spamton isn't a "funny little guy who lives in a non-house cuz it's funny", not even in-universe. He is, put it simply, destitute. He does not live in the trash because he wants to. And, I think that every clear-headed person understands this, you cannot go from being one of, if not the, richest person in your entire world, to a homeless man living in a garbage can who people pretend doesn't exist, unless your peers and your society have wronged you tremendously. Spamton didn't become a homeless man just because he fucked around and found out, he became a homeless man because he fucked around and found out, AND none of his peers from this time wanted to help him. And, most importantly, this includes Swatch.

As a servant, he must know what poverty looks like. He must know what having a material condition worse than the ones you surround yourself with is like. And they did nothing to help, or maybe even contributed to Spamton's isolation, which is a separate can of worms I don't have the energy to look at gameplay videos for at this time of night.

For real, does the guy who sells Spamton's bowties with the label removed, and refers to him as a "crooked salesman", and plays it coy and laments when Spamton goes off the deep end sound like they have class consciousness?

Do they sound like they wouldn't shoo off a poor, hungry plugboy from the palace's kitchen back door?

Swatch has apparently rejected his origin not only as a metaphorically working-class artist, but the fact that he could empathize with other working-class people as well, including the less fortunate and the desperate. This makes him a class traitor, by Marx's own theory.

Of course, there's a lot more nuance to Swatch and Spamton's relationship, especially the fact that Spamton isn't the perfect portrait of a poor victim and is very combative and aggressive, which doesn't make people very willing to empathize with him in the first place. There's also the power inbalance and dynamic involved in the fact that, when Spamton lived in the Pandora Palace, Swatch was his butler as well, and that might complicate things from Swatch's end.

At the end of the day, this is just my own takeaway from Swatch's words about Spamton, and Spamton's words about Swatch. This doesn't mean much for anything besides my own understanding of Deltarune and what sort of fun dynamics I can explore in fanworks, nor does it mean I am claiming it as truth, but I do think it's an interesting exercise in media analysis.

Edited to include a few more words on Spamton becoming burgoise cuz I meant to do that but forgor lmao

Okay, I've cooked lunch. Let's get to real cooking now.

Basically once every few years I like watching a 100% playthrough of Majora's Mask (usually that ancient commentated one by Zelda Dungeon but this year I opted for a single video 10 hour no-commentary HD mod playthrough), and this year as I was practicing this tradition I started reflecting upon what I like about MM. It's not just that its themes are more reflective of death, it's not just that everything in it is written in a way to always culminate in the end of the 72 hours. What I like the most about it is how compact it is compared to OoT. The lack of Hyrule Fields means that everything in Termina is closer together. It feels like a more closed, more comfortable experience than the vast expanse of Hyrule.

Another thing I really like, and that's more coincidental than anything, is that the models and characters are all more or less the same as in Ocarina of Time, but they all have completely different roles and relationships to one another, although not exactly that much different from OoT. This is what made my synapses fire up at 1 A.M. to post the sentence "I think Undertale is Majoras Mask for Deltarune's Ocarina of Time" nine hours later after i wokeup

Here's my reasoning: I mostly understand Majora's Mask as an allegory for Link's existential crisis and his way of coping with loss and change from the end of OoT when he chooses to continue being a child. Termina is all centered around the idea of imminent impact, imminent change, something you can't control and yet will still come, the end of a world as you know it and beginning of something you don't know. That's a very vivid picture of what Link might be feeling during OoT, realizing he's not a fairy boy and becoming a knight for a princess and being part of a prophecy that perpetuates for generations and having to defeat the literal incarnation of evil who is a huge buff man and having to grow up and travel through time and link's like 12. That's a lot of change in an incredibly small amount of time. Of course Link'll be thinking about it for a while.

So, taking the interpretation that Majora's Mask is allegorical, I circle this back to Undertale and Deltarune: I think Undertale too is some sort of allegory for Deltarune. Deltarune is obviously the more expansive game of the two, has been worked on the longest and was intended to come first. All of the characters that appear in Undertale are present in Deltarune in more... Let's say grounded roles, and sometimes less idealistic than in Undertale. To illustrate my point:

"divorced mom and dad" -> "mom who lives in isolation and dad who lives far away and also they're the royals"

"suddenly there new grocery shop owner and his little brother who i wanna befriend so bad" -> "two cool skeleton brothers who showed up out of nowhere that everyone likes and who are your best friends"

"old man who died long ago who was beloved by all that you've never met" -> "old man who is still alive who tells you cool stories and is super smart and fun to hang with"

et cetera

Add onto this the concept that Undertale is a comfortable and safe game, which is something I really like. When I first played it, Undertale made me nostalgic for something I've never experienced; nostalgia without a subject. Finally, after 8 slutty, slutty years, I figured out why. It makes me nostalgic for a time in your infancy where you understand the world as friendly, because you're still too small to have experienced much more than your own home. Everyone is looking out for you and nobody wants to harm you. Undertale feels so comfortable to me because I know no characters in that game are dangerous due to bad intentions (which is another part of my disdain for evil gaster headcanons but i'm getting ahead of myself there), and I know that most of the characters, when they are threatening, are just putting on a show to interact with you (I promise you, if you play Undertale with the mindset that all of the monsters are either humoring or babysitting Frisk it turns into such an amusing little game). And in that regard, it's very contrastant how different Deltarune is. Deltarune is more mature in that sense – in the idea that there are ill intentioned people in the world, people who are not giving themselves the responsibility to be nice to kids and teens, a world that is more complex than a teenager would wish it to be.

So, in summation, Undertale appears to be an allegorical, idealized, safe world based on the world of Deltarune. Whether this means that Frisk is a representation of Kris from their own perspective, or something else, I don't think we have the information to figure out yet. But what would this mean for their unrelated-ness?

I do believe that when Toby let everyone know that Undertale and Deltarune were Unrelated, I don't think he meant it "completely". I think he meant it in a way to stop people from viewing them in a linear way, as in, one is a sequel to the other, in which the same logic and lore would apply. I think Undertale and Deltarune are related in either of two ways:

Undertale is fictional inside of Deltarune (thus, it actually has 3 levels of fictionality which is something I wanna talk about some other day)

Undertale is a rearranging of the Deltarune universe (if you're a homestuck girlie, effectively a post-scratch universe), in which some relationships and worldly rules are maintained and some are reworked towards a specific goal.

I think that, by the time Chapter 7 is published, we will have the answer to this, but for now, there's not enough canon info out there to draw any conclusion, including the one this same theory brings up: What is Undertale an allegory for?

(personally, I think it'd fit within the themes of escapism and idealization turned into unhealtiness, as well as the wish every older teen/young adult has to return to childhood, but that's again a topic for another post)

But yeah. This is why Deltarune is Ocarina of Time and Undertale is Majora's Mask. Enjoy the meal.

Do you see my vision?

"Swatch is Crowbar" okay Mafa. Tell us more

I'll do you one better, watcher, I'll make a List:

Both are triangular

Both are in charge of well-dressed buff men (and women) (who wear bowties)

Both have horizontal-like relationships with strong women that use whips as their primary weapon and are all about commanding other things or people

There's more similarities but I'm fast approaching the image limit and tumblr doesn't like it when I do that on an ask. Here's the rest of the list:

Both can be very rude (Swatch moreso passive-aggressively or behind people's backs, but they can definitely be rude if they want to; Crowbar takes a more physical stance to rudeness)

Both take pride in their leadership, even though Swatch seems to have a better relationship with the Swatchlings than Crowbar has with the rest of the Felt

Both are middle-management (they lead other people, but also have a boss they respond to, and in both cases they respond to that person with passion and loyalty)

They're both weirdos (affectionate)

Both are bisexual royals

Both the Felt and the Swatchlings rely heavily on colors for self-identification

Knowing how many other references to Homestuck there are in Deltarune, this can't be just a Very Specific Coincidence. I'm not sure what this means in the grand scheme of things though.

sometimes i feel like toby fox made spamton and the addisons especially for people to hyperfixate on. everything about them seems so perfect for people to go rabid about its insane to me

for one, spamton himself pretty much counts for 4 people, those being addispam, big shot spamton, in game spamton, and spamton neo. now sure you mostly see people going rabid about in game spamton but ive seen plenty of people who are obsessed with a version we dont get to see on screen

secondly, even the main in game spamton himself is kinda up to interpretation. loads of people characterise him differently. if i compared two aus to eachother theyd often be very different and depending on the ones i chose could be almost like 2 different people, and then if i compared those to in-game spamton, theyd still be very different. also since you dont see addispam and big shot spamton on screen you dont even know what they acted like so again basically you can make your own guy to fixate on with a few prompts as to what he was like

dont even get me started on the addisons. now im biased as fuck here seeing that ive been fixated on the addisons for like 6 months now (send help) but toby fox basically gave us 4 templates for us to have fun with. sure based off of in game dialogue you have a bit to go off of when it comes to their personality (pink being an asshole and blue being caring for example) but even then every addison in every different au is slightly different and i have never seen two addisons turn out exactly the same. ALSO you dont even know the relationship these characters have to spamton meaning you can have them be siblings, you can have them be friends, or you can ship them based off of what you enjoy. OR you could just ignore them altogether (which a lot of people do lmao)

also another thing is the fact that you dont necessarily need to have your addisons' personalities just reflect off of spamtons. I mean the main 4 addisons give you enough to go off of to make your own, and you are given cyber city, an entire fantasy world for you to put them in. cyber city again is up to interpretation, some people have it be like a normal city, some people make it a utopia, some people make it a hellscape. the choice is yours!!

and even then in game spamton is so versatile. he is perfect for angsty stuff, fluffy stuff, or jsut silly stuff, and none of it is out of character. you couldnt really make an angsty spongebob edit could you, itd be weird and out of characer and no one would take it seriously. but also you couldnt make a silly walten files video, sure people do but its out of character and wouldnt actually happen canonically. but spamton on the other hand. hes the kinda guy who you can draw holding a wallet in his mouth like a cat and generally being silly but also you could draw him sobbing at the bottom of dumpster and neither would be out of character!! AAAA

also extra thing i thought id add but his backstory is also very up to interpretation, like i dont think ive ever seen two people who think spamtons rise and downfall went exactly the same. sure everyone has the same general idea of how it went but some people believe in acid theory, some people believe in puppetification theory, some people have a mix of both, some people have their own idea of how it went down, and with that you can project different parts of your own trauma onto whatever happened to him.

ok sorry that was so long thank you for reading my very biased ramble about why spamton is perfect byeeee

Why is Swatch a class traitor???

Thank you very much for asking :)

In this post I'll be using he/they pronouns interchangeably to refer to Swatch. I enjoy the idea of they-pronouns Swatch but at the same time I refuse to believe that the only instance of canon pronoun usage to refer to him is misgendering, as some people posted about before, because that's not how Toby flies.

That being said, before talking about Swatch specifically, I need to explain the logic behind this reading of them. Swatch being seen as a "class traitor" is derived from the marxist idea of class consciousness, or in different terms, the fact that people who are in the same economic position understand each other and therefore owe each other solidarity, the idea that people need to be conscious of their position in their society and side with people who will help their situation and improve their lives.

In this sense, a class traitor is a person who, despite understanding their position in the social strata, refuses to side with their peers and instead either shuns them to appeal to a higher social class, to "appear as one of them", so to speak, or completely refuses the idea that they are part of that class to begin with. A good, palpable example, are snobbish, classist doctors. Doctors are employed by someone – be it a hospital, a clinic, an insurance company, the government in some countries, even in private practice, etc, but they are not, by Marx's definitions, owners of capital, aka someone with the exorbitant amount of money that allows them to control production in a large scale (in other words, conglomerates and billionaires). However, having a higher material condition on average, and having attained this social position through study that was allowed by a higher material condition in the first place, some doctors don't realize that they are just as much of a proletariat as the poor man they are treating, and thus exhibit behavior like discrediting, ignoring or even being hostile to people they identify as lesser, despite the fact that they're supposed to be together, sociologically speaking.

What the fuck does that have to do with Swatch, you ask? Well, Swatch is, to put it bluntly, literally a servant to aristocracy. They are, by definition, part of the working class, and therefore they owe solidarity to their fellow workers. Spamton, in direct counterbalance, is a member of the working class who has been elevated, by one way or another, into a position that makes him just as, if not more powerful than aristocracy. Spamton had become burgoise, though he still retains his origin as a working class salesman, that much hasn't changed in him, as far as we can tell. This seems to be going on just fine, if we are to believe Spamton's response in the Q&A, until Spamton needs a support system, when his business goes belly up to the point that he ends up homeless.

I really need to emphasize this point. Spamton isn't a "funny little guy who lives in a non-house cuz it's funny", not even in-universe. He is, put it simply, destitute. He does not live in the trash because he wants to. And, I think that every clear-headed person understands this, you cannot go from being one of, if not the, richest person in your entire world, to a homeless man living in a garbage can who people pretend doesn't exist, unless your peers and your society have wronged you tremendously. Spamton didn't become a homeless man just because he fucked around and found out, he became a homeless man because he fucked around and found out, AND none of his peers from this time wanted to help him. And, most importantly, this includes Swatch.

As a servant, he must know what poverty looks like. He must know what having a material condition worse than the ones you surround yourself with is like. And they did nothing to help, or maybe even contributed to Spamton's isolation, which is a separate can of worms I don't have the energy to look at gameplay videos for at this time of night.

For real, does the guy who sells Spamton's bowties with the label removed, and refers to him as a "crooked salesman", and plays it coy and laments when Spamton goes off the deep end sound like they have class consciousness?

Do they sound like they wouldn't shoo off a poor, hungry plugboy from the palace's kitchen back door?

Swatch has apparently rejected his origin not only as a metaphorically working-class artist, but the fact that he could empathize with other working-class people as well, including the less fortunate and the desperate. This makes him a class traitor, by Marx's own theory.

Of course, there's a lot more nuance to Swatch and Spamton's relationship, especially the fact that Spamton isn't the perfect portrait of a poor victim and is very combative and aggressive, which doesn't make people very willing to empathize with him in the first place. There's also the power inbalance and dynamic involved in the fact that, when Spamton lived in the Pandora Palace, Swatch was his butler as well, and that might complicate things from Swatch's end.

At the end of the day, this is just my own takeaway from Swatch's words about Spamton, and Spamton's words about Swatch. This doesn't mean much for anything besides my own understanding of Deltarune and what sort of fun dynamics I can explore in fanworks, nor does it mean I am claiming it as truth, but I do think it's an interesting exercise in media analysis.

Edited to include a few more words on Spamton becoming burgoise cuz I meant to do that but forgor lmao