Hello! New To Comics And I Don't Really Feel Like The New-52 Comics Are For Me And Would Really Like

Hello! New to comics and I don't really feel like the New-52 comics are for me and would really like to read and understand Pre-flashpoint and all the dark and good stuff there. Is there an order or starting point you would recommend? Thanks for your time, and I hope you have a great day!

hi! i'm so glad you want to get into comics! i'd love to help with some recs! since you're here, i'm going to assume you're a Batfamily fan and most of my recs will cater to that, but i will try to encompass a bit of everything to help you just understand some big moments and all this mess that is DC canon. adding a cut bc jesus this got long.

so your starting point for pre-Flashpoint is going to be Crisis on Infinite Earths. the TLDR of this event is: DC had a big multiverse in the 70s and early 80s that wasn't friendly to new readers. to try to push their titles more and become a proper competitor to Marvel, they created an in-universe storyline that nuked the multiverse and gave a solid entry point for new fans going forward. this is why you hear terms like Pre-Crisis and Post-Crisis. it refers to the comics canon before and after this event, in 1985. some characters had some big changes (for example: pre-Crisis Jason Todd was a circus kid whose parents were killed by Killer Croc) but most remained largely the same, just simplified. you don't *have* to start with Crisis on Infinite Earths if you don't want to. it's a *good* storyline, but it's a big one and a lot of big multiverse-scale stuff happens. so as long as you understand it as "big event that nuked DC's multiverse and gave the world a clean slate in 1985", then you've basically got the gist. also Barry Allen dies during it, but he comes back so don't worry about it.

in general, if DC has some big timeline/canon-altering event, they're going to call it a Crisis Event. the only Crisis Events that will matter to you, trying to get into pre-Flashpoint are

Crisis On Infinite Earths - the above, starts the Post-Crisis/pre-Flashpoint timeline

Zero Hour: Crisis In Time - an event in the 90s that sought to fix some of the kinks that the above Crisis caused, like fixing the origins of the Legion of Superheroes and other Golden/Silver Age characters, not *super* important tbh

Infinite Crisis - this was a big event that brought back some characters who got nuked by Crisis on Infinite Earths, unfucked Power Girl's backstory, and set the groundwork to bring back the multiverse. if you've heard "Superboy Prime punched a hole in reality and it brought back Jason Todd" yeah, this is the story where it happened

Final Crisis - a big event that was partly meta commentary but heroes fought Darkseid, Batman died for a hot second, it was all a big deal about evil winning and all that

Flashpoint - the event that nuked this timeline, a big storyline to do with Flash and the timeline that would result in the New-52 in 2011

are you confused yet? good embrace the confusion it's going to become second nature of a comic fan. you don't need to read these events as a beginner. you really don't i promise. they'll sound big and important, but besides Crisis On Infinite Earths and Flashpoint, the start and end of this era, the rest you can just kind of breeze by so long as you understand the big plot points like Batman dying or Superboy Prime punching reality. unless you really care about a character central to these stories, skip 'em for now.

now for any character, if they have a Year One comic? that is a very safe bet as a place to start. it is what it sounds like. Batman: Year One is going to be Bruce's first year as Batman. same as Green Arrow: Year One, Batgirl: Year One, etc. when in doubt, if there's a Year One, start with Year One. (note: for Superman, his "year one" type story is called Superman: Birthright and it is worth reading if you like Superman)

for Batman, i am holding you by the shoulders when i say this: people will tell you to read The Killing Joke. they're liars. do not listen to them. it's a bad story. you don't need it. do not let the Joker fanboys lie to you. people will also say Dark Knight Returns. don't listen to *them* either. i *like* DKR, i talk about it a lot here. it's not a good intro to Batman. it's an AU story, it's not canon, ignore it for now.

now where you *should* start with Batman, imo, is as followed

Batman: Year One - as said above, Year Ones are good, this is solid to start with

Batman: The Long Halloween - this is an iconic story and it's a followup to year One

Batman: Dark Legacy - the followup to Long Halloween, also a very good story

Batman: Hush - this story is a solid starter if you want to understand the general vibe of Gotham, the typical characters you see in the Batfamily, and a good Batman villain

once you've got the basics down, you *can* get into the big boy storylines like Batman: Knightfall and Batman: No Man's Land, but don't worry about those right now. they're long and complicated and shouldn't really be your starting point no matter how good they are.

other very good pre-Flashpoint comics that are easy to pick up and iconic storylines

Death of Superman - this is a long arc in the Superman run that if you collect in trades, goes Death of Superman, Funeral For A Friend, Reign of the Supermen, Return of Superman, Doomsday. it's long, but a very iconic storyline

Wonder Woman by George Perez - this the run that helped define modern Wonder Woman within the pre-Flashpoint era

JLA: Year One - if you want a good Justice League story where you get characters besides Batman, Wonder Woman, and Superman taking the shine, this is a great place to start

Green Arrow by Mike Grell - start with Green Arrow: The Longbow Hunters and then go into Green Arrow (1988). this has the darker, very 80s vibes that gets a bit gritty and very realistic with the issues it faces bc Green Arrow comics tend to be more rooted

The New Teen Titans by Marv Wolfman - this technically starts before pre-Flashpoint, don't worry about it it's fine. a good run for all of these characters, can get a little confusing, it is okay to be confused do not be afraid to google shit

so, some big stories out of the way i'm just. honestly going to run down the line of the major pre-Flashpoint Batfamily members and give you comic recs for them that you can start with. (besides Bruce obviously, bc well. see above)

Dick Grayson

NIghtwing: Year One

Robin: Year One

Nightwing (1995)

Tim Drake

Batman: A Lonely Place of Dying

Robin (1990)

Robin II: Joker's Wild

Robin III: Cry of the Huntress

Robin (1993)

Barbara Gordon

Batgirl: Year One

Birds of Prey (1999)

Jason Todd

Batman: The Cult (as Robin)

Batman: Death in the Family (as Robin)

Batman: Under The Red Hood

Red Hood: Lost Days

Cassandra Cain

Batgirl (2000)

Batman: No Man's Land

Jean-Paul Valley

Batman: Sword of Azrael

Batman: Knightfall

Stephanie Brown

Huntress/Spoiler: Blunt Trauma

Batgirl (2009)

Selina Kyle

Catwoman by Ed Brubaker

Helena Bertinelli

Batman/Huntress: Cry For Blood

Huntress: Year One

Birds of Prey: Manhunt

Damian Wayne

Batman & Robin (2009)

there are other very important pre-Flashpoint stories for all of these characters, but these are starting points more than anything. figure out what characters you're interested and go from there. understanding the universe at large helps, do not get me wrong. but at the end of the day, comics are a choose your own adventure of who you want to give a shit about. you're *never* going to read everything "important" and you're probably not going to understand everything. that's okay. don't treat it like a media you need to "complete" like a tv show or a movie, but more like an open world game where you decide what characters/teams/stories you like the most.

pre-Flashpoint covers a lot of ground. some stuff will be darker and grittier, some stuff will be more light-hearted. it will all be about what titles you pick up and what characters you decide you want to read about. you're obviously going to get a much more grounded storyline out of Green Arrow than you are say, a JLA comic. i prefer the more grounded, "street level" sorts of characters. (if you like gritty detective stories, i will be biased and highly recommend the Question (1987) just because. i love him okay.) but you might find you like sometimes more worldly and big scale. at the end of the day: don't force yourself to love a comic you're not enjoying, even if you like that character. you can put that shit down. sometimes, "important stories" are by shitty writers that you won't enjoy reading and you shouldn't make this hobby a chore. i don't care how "critically acclaimed" it is, you don't have to like it if it doesn't click for you. and on the flipside, a comic might be considered "bad" but you may enjoy it (a personal example: Robin III: Cry of the Huntress is considered a very weak comic. don't care. i love it anyway.) accept the cringe, have fun, and enjoy yourself at the end of the day. none of it will make sense anyway so just read what sounds cool to you.

this was all over the place and rambly, but i hope it helps at least a little! welcome to comics anon! if you or anyone else would like more character-specific recs, feel free to ask! if i don't know, i can at the very least hopefully point you in the right direction <3

Gilmore Girls "Say Goodnight, Gracie" // Sue Zhao

i think it’s interesting how in the book, percy killing ms. dobbs is described as “the only thing that comes naturally” that being percy swinging the sword and turning her to dust, and him killing the minotaur is almost accidental, he snaps the horn off by ACCIDENT and happens to come up with it positioned to kill the beast and how that contributes to his feelings of inadequacy, whereas in the show so far, him killing ms. dobbs was a complete and total accident, and you can actually see some of the thought process in the show of him ripping the horn from the minotaurs skull and driving it through his brain. idk once you get down to it, it shows a very stark difference between this is something that is happening to me to this is something i am doing, my mother told me monsters are real and now one took her from me and what i can do is take it in return and i do think it’s also exemplifying this tonal shift that the show has taken by not having percy’s inner monologue to explain his thought process as events unfold, and also their stronger focus on relationships and building up camp life to an extent

liking someone platonically is so embarrassing like. yeah i admire you. yeah i think about you all the time. yeah i look forward to every time i see you even if it's only for a minute. yeah it's all platonic and yeah i couldn't explain this because it'd sound romantic. fucking hell

Jason Todd,  Jason Todd,  Jason Todd,  Jason Todd,  Jason Todd and Jason Todd

fan art

I’m tempted to write a sit com style of Limited Life.

It follows the Clockers, a family of a single mom, Cleo Clocker, and her two sons (who we think are adopted) Scar and Bdubs Clocker (who we also swear that those aren’t their real names).

The local biker gang, Bad Boys, Grian, Joel, and Jimmy (who we aren’t sure are related but people speculate Jimmy and Grian are. And that Joel has a wife we don’t see)

The neighbors, Pearl and BigB (of which we think Pearl is Grian’s sister but isn’t confirmed. And is dating BigB to piss off her brother.) who are very nosey and tend to get involved in the family drama because of this.

Their absent dad, Etho Slab (Formerly Clocker), as he causes problems in the families life trying to ‘reconnect’ with his sons. And running a bar with his old college buddies Tango, Skizz, and Impulse. (We think they are in a poly or something. But none of them are straight.)

And the two resort owners, Scott and Martin, well ‘resort’ is an Airbnb they rent out and make great money with. (We think they are in a relationship (?), but Scott acts weird around Jimmy, and Martyn seems to have some weird trauma around Cleo. We aren’t sure why, but something happened.)l

Noted Plot points.

- Grian and Scar used to be a couple when teens, and Grian cheated on Scar with BigB.

- BigB was under the assumption that Scar was into this, and has tried to get Grian to do a threesome.

- Pearl is ‘dating’ BigB because both want to make Grian jealous. (It’s working)

- Scar still has feelings for Grian but also hates his guts. Several times through the series they have hate sex.

- Bdubs has some ‘dad’ trauma. And constantly looking for Etho’s approval.

- Etho only ever liked Bdubs and doesn’t like his eldest son Scar. He thinks Cleo had an affair. (Fans speculate that Scar is adopted)

- Fans speculate Joel has a secret wife that he hides form the Bad Boys and her name is Lizzie. They think she’s Pearl’s best friend or former girlfriend before she got with Joel.

- Gem is Cleo’s girlfriend in this, but people seem to think she’s Cleo’s sister which is confusing as to why.

- Renchanting is a closed down shop after Ren broke up with Martyn and left for a different city.

- The place takes place on a costal town a few miles away from a city. So Beach shenanigans (And Scar in a tight swimsu-)

- Jimmy is always having doubts of being a Bad Boy and seems to have a crush on Tango. (Fans love the angst for this shit).

- Bdubs and Scar have a great brotherly relationship even if they don’t see eye to eye.

- Tango, Impulse, and Skizz all keep trying to get Etho to ‘man up’ and actually be there for his kids. (Or at least Bdubs, Scar is doing fine on his own it seems). While also being bad influences on him for ways he can get Cleo to not hate him.

- they also own a tie shop business on the side of their bar. And no one knows why.

- Fans speculate the family is in a gang or mafia, but aren’t sure what. There is little evidence but it is scary how this little bit shows a darker picture.

- fans also speculate both Scar and Bdubs aren’t Cleo’s or Etho’s kids due to the stupid always changing their ages. Hence the mafia theory.

- both Scar and Bdubs are whores, and so is everyone else. I don’t make the rules.

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This is about all I got for now. But if I come up with more ideas, I’ll let you know.