Can NOT Get Over Palmer's Biography Of Von Steuben Calling Du Ponceau "callow" Fight Me On This Idc That

Can NOT get over Palmer's biography of Von Steuben calling Du Ponceau "callow" fight me on this idc that he was like 17 he was the most mature person on that boat

No BC I'm actually so sick and tired of the Von Steuben hate. His portrayal in fanfiction is just atrocious. First of all he deserves so much love and attention oml, second, what made you think he's a monochromatic dirty old man who cares about nothing but sex? What evidence do we even have that he was at all like that!? Have you read his letters, have you read memoirs, have you read accounts of, idk, HIS FRIENDS!? People who actually met him!? Because he does not seem like that at all and the way we portray him is not only stereotypical but extremely disrespectful. Have you ever read a single sentence about him mistreating or over-sexualising his aides? NO!? Yes, he was probably dating a good amount of them. Yes, he was MUCH older than most, but he was a human. He was a human being, not just some throwaway gay general who we get to absolutely exploit in fanfiction, and if you can't take the time, to see that, you shouldn't even write about him. I'll also add that he wasn't some random German who came to America to wave his flag or promote homosexuality or whatever, not only was he VERY crucial in our independence but he had actual trauma, yk? He was DEFINITELY mentally struggling, I'll tell you that, I'd say (almost) as bad as Laurens, even. And I also think some of you guys are forgetting that homosexuality was completely illegal almost everywhere in the 18th century. Neither George Washington nor Ben Franklin cared what this guy and his lovers did behind closed doors, BUT GOOD GOD NO ONE WANTS TO SEE THAT IN THE MIDDLE OF A MEETING, EVEN FOR TODAY'S STANDARDS!? For the love of God, you can keep covering Du Ponceau in hickeys, I guess??? BUT WHY DOES IT HAVE TO HAPPEN IN BROAD DAYLIGHT, DAMMIT!?

I think part of this comes from the rumor that he was "openly" gay, because no... That's... Not how that works. The only people I'd really say are OPENLY gay in the 1700s are MAYBE Frederick the Great and Henry III of Prussia but that's because they literally rule their country and can do whatever they want. Von Steuben wasn't even OPENLY gay in Europe, he was just a queer man who kinda got called out and OUTED, BTW, and fled to America because nowhere else wanted him.

Have any of y'all read the novel "Forge"? It's a sequel to the novel "Chains", and it's GREAT. It's a 4-7th grade novel about two enslaved (teenagers?) in the American Revolution, and it was so good oml. I read it in 5th grade. One thing I noticed is they portrayed Von Steuben GREATLY.

They portrayed him as a kind, good drillmaster WITHOUT mentioning his homosexuality.

The two Von Steuben personalities I see in the media are a hypersexual man whore who wants everyone to know his sexuality, or a monochromatic angry, sad old man who hates everyone

Is this really how America wants to remember their first drillmaster?

:(

Why does he dress like a dark academia college girl

okay okay okay von steuben questions - errrr off the top of my head

he got kicked out of prussia (prussian army) for being gay? i know that's a fact but i don't know details :p

and benjamin franklin... he denied the gay allegations or just graciously ignored them while recommending steuben to washington? i feel like these two facts lack clarity and would love to know more about steuben in the military in general.

i know he was awesome (i read this somewhere, i think it was lafayette's bio - that he would get mad and ask his aides to swear at the soldiers for him lmao)

sorry for the... rambly ask. i'll also definitely be checking out your book recommendations!!!

AAAAAAA YAYAYAYAYAA OKIE!!!!

1. Well, yes and no! He was kicked out of the Prussian army originally because Frederick the Great was cutting down his staff, like, a lot, and Von Steuben initially wasn't KICKED OUT, although he was demoted DRASTICALLY, And was in a regiment he used to command. Count Von Anhalt, who was chief of staff at the time, had beef with Steuben for, like, no reason, and so they allegedly duelled, according to some biographers, though we lack evidence. After the duel, however, Von Anhalt completely removed Steuben from the Prussian army! Thanks to his "very close friend", (wink wink lover) Prince Henry III/ Heinrich III of Prussia, Henry recommended Steuben to a major duchess, and Steuben actually lived in Prussia for 10 more years!! He served a minor role in the court of Hohenzollern-Hechigen, and got Azor during that time! Azor Azor Azor we love Azor. He probably, like, found Azor as a stray or something, and went "oo pretty dawg you're never gonna be hungry again let's get a bedazzled collar on you and now you're a poor aristocrat like me yay" or something like that. That was really off topic actually, continuing. While he served in the court of Hohenzollern-Hechigen, rumors about his sexuality and his relationship with other men spread like wildfire, mostly behind his back. Frederick the Great didn't mind that much, however, being homosexual himself. But the people were incredibly loud about their opinions, and it was clear something had to be done. In the summer of 1777, Von Steuben visited Paris to see his friend, Comte de Saint-Germaine. (Who I think is actually so awesome but that's another story for another time.) While he was visiting Saint-Germaine, Pierre Caron de Beaumarchais and Silas Deane scouted him and we're like "Yoo, you're so cool, wanna get a job with us?" And he was like "nah lol America sounds boring as heck." And then Franklin was like "yo I'm with them and istg it's so cool and I'm like famous so join me" and Von Steuben was like "ERM no I don't wanna hear anything else about this murica I'm going back to Germany" and so he did, and... Uh oh. The second he returns, it turns out while he was gone, an anonymous letter was submitted to the courts, and the princes of Hohenzollern-Hechigen, claiming that Steuben had "taken liberties with young boys", which is an EXTREMELY controversial sentence in the amrev community. They were accusing him of being a p3d0phile, basically, specifically attracted to young boys.... Supposedly? There are many interpretations. I personally believe the letter referred to men around 18 years old, considering Von Steuben's relationship with men around that age later. There has never been any evidence that Von Steuben was a pedophile, though there definitely is evidence he was homosexual, or queer at the very least. Frederick the Great didn't find any evidence he was attracted to children, either, though allegedly did officially exile the baron for charges of homosexuality, which was a federal crime, only 5 days after he returned to Prussia. Von Steuben, now broke and with nowhere to go, returned to Paris and was like "Hey Franklin, about that offer, I could use it right now" and Franklin was like "YEAHHH BOI" And so they met up at a bath house, a place homosexual men commonly met to... H**k up, and a place Von Steuben was DEFINITELY familiar with. Franklin thought everything was looking good, and the group agreed that he'd be a great general for Valley Forge. Right before they sent him, however, they found out that he was attracted to men... THE NEXT PART GOES FOR QUESTION 2 TEEHEE

So... Yeah! Details! Yeah, he was pretty much kicked out for being gay :c

2. FRANKLIN'S RESPONSE WJOWJSJSJS

Franklin, Deane, and Beaumarchais... Honestly didn't care. Beaumarchais himself was pansexual, Deane was an ally and honestly indifferent, and Franklin was a MAJOR ally, some sites even saying he was queer himself, though I, as always, lack evidence. The group actually rushed to send him to America quicker, after finding out that... By law, Von Steuben was to be prosecuted wherever he went, as long as they could find him, and he was still in Europe. That was a thing... Yup... So they basically rushed him over so he wasn't hung or something, yay!! Franklin then wrote a flowery letter to George Washington basically saying "hey man I'm sending this really cool Prussian, he was a general, an aide to the king, and allat." Von Steuben was NOT a general in Prussia, and that was likely something Franklin made up to try to make up for the damage done to Von Steuben's reputation. From what we know, it was likely that Washington actually knew Von Steuben was homosexual before he arrived, but also couldn't care less.

So, that probably makes sense, but if it doesn't, I'm 100% here to clarify, I'm so sorry I ramble a lot.

(as a wise redditor once said, "he doesn't have to BE straight, he just has to shoot straight" man, I love military redditors during pride month.)

3. Yup yup!

Von Steuben actually didn't know much English! He DEFINITELY got, like, scarily and aggressively angry, and would call over his aides, mostly his lovers actually, because his lovers served as his aides-de-camps as Frederick taught him to do, okay I'm rambling sorry, but he would say "My dear Du Ponceau/Walker, please come swear for me in English. These fellows won't do what I bid them to!"

Von Steuben would get, like, ANGRY angry, and they'd usually have to calm him down after a while :P

Du Ponceau, aide and (lover?) to the baron, said that the soldiers would laugh out loud when they heard Du Ponceau translate all these scandalous words in his calm and reserved voice.

... I'm an extremely hardcore Steuponceau shipper btw so I hope this isn't biased but it might be😬

Von Steuben also had an extremely eclectic personality and was a genuinely funny guy, even when he was simultaneously being a big scary drillmaster/inspector general.

OKAY SO UH FIRST OFF TYSMMMM FOR THE QUESTIONS AAAA I LOVE YAPPING, I HOPE YOU ENJOYED AN EVEN MORE RAMBLY ANSWER!!! IF YOU NEED ME TO DO A SECOND ONE ON SPECIFICALLY THE COOL STUFF HE DID IN AMERICA, I 100% WILL, OR IF YOU NEED ME TO CLARIFY ANYTHING OR MAKE IT CLEARER, I 1000000% WILL!

Also EEEEEEEEEEE THE BOOK RECS YAYAYAYAY :OOOO TY!?!?!! (I wasn't loved as a child in case it wasn't obvious :>>>>>)

😰

thinking back to when this textbook in a chapter about 18th century Prussia and Frederick the Great described the Hans Katte incident (the red underlining and everything preceding), while referring to Hans Katte as his friend, then wrote "This incident, however, did not change the future monarch's preferences" (purple underlining). The ruler was also considered a master of blowing the flute (green underlining)".