"gave Snape A Stable Job....despite Being Abusive To Children (though He Probably Didn't Perceive Himself

"gave Snape a stable job....despite being abusive to children (though he probably didn't perceive himself as such)"

I am a tad confused about this. How could Severus not possibly understand that he was being abusive to the kids under his care- especially Harry? Did he feel threatened by the children under his care to the point of viewing them as equals and thus justifying his behaviour to himself (why didn't the other teachers call him out on his shit)

Anonymous: am curious. You mentioned Snape likely doesn't realise that he is abusing the children under his care and mimicking his father. Does he actually feel powerless enough to justify his behaviours to himself? When he sees James in Harry and blames Neville does he see the boys as his equals/ someone above him in power that needs to be put down- thus allowing himself to continue acting the way he does? It's ironic all things considered. For all that Harry looks like James, he takes more after Lily.

Okay, so, I just wrote a post about Snape, but I'll cover here what I'm thinking about this specifically in more detail.

I'm not sure where the quote you mentioned is from, but I can say what I think about the way Snape treats Harry and his students and how he sees it.

So, Severus was abused by his father. From his behavior, what I guess is that a lot of his treatment of his students is him mimicking what he saw from his father.

Like, Severus became a professor at 21. It means his older students knew him as a student. Not to mention he was a terrorist, known Death Eater, who was saved by Dumbledore from being sent to Azkaban. And his students knew this.

So Severus felt like he needed a way to make sure his students would take him seriously. The main example he decided to draw from — his father, Tobias.

We don't know what exactly Tobias Snape did, he was a poor, working-class man who abused his wife and son. And I think when Tobias wanted to be taken seriously, he used fear, insults, and force. So this is what Severus knows.

Severus sees what he does as the only way students would treat him seriously, he doesn't really see it as abuse, as I believe he doesn't really see his father's mistreatment of him as abuse.

Severus always struck me as a character who doesn't want to get better.

I think Severus is one of the abused kids who rationalized his own abuse as something he deserved. He clearly wants to beat himself up about his mistakes. He wants to feel the guilt over pushing Lily away and then over killing her (in his mind). So, to him, in his mind, it's not abuse, it's what they deserve.

Is it good that's what he thinks? No, not at all, it actually sucks. Snape needed therapy.

Now, with Harry specifically, his treatment is different. With Harry, he really does see him as an equal and he needs Harry to treat him seriously. Like, Snape projects James on Harry way more than Sirius does. And Snape can't show anything resembling weakness to Mini-James Potter, so he goes back to his father's methods to be taken seriously. It's about Harry not seeing him as weak like James did.

And revenge, a little bit. Snape is very petty.

He still doesn't see his vengeance as abuse, because, as much as Severus wants to believe he's the one in power, he's scared of Harry more than he's willing to confess. He doesn't see a power imbalance between him and Harry, he doesn't actually see himself in a position of power, because he sees James in Harry. Harry doesn't treat Severus with the respect usually given to professors, which strengthens the way Severus doesn't really see him as a student.

Like, the fact Severus felt the need to remove memories he didn't want Harry to see when teaching him Occlumancy shows how much he fears Harry. Fears the possibility of Harry getting this information and using it against him.

Harry sat there staring at Snape as the lesson began, picturing horrific things happening to him. . . . If only he knew how to do the Cruciatus Curse . . . he’d have Snape flat on his back like that spider, jerking and twitching. . . . “Antidotes!” said Snape, looking around at them all, his cold black eyes glittering unpleasantly. “You should all have prepared your recipes now. I want you to brew them carefully, and then, we will be selecting someone on whom to test one. . . .” Snape’s eyes met Harry’s, and Harry knew what was coming. Snape was going to poison him. Harry imagined picking up his cauldron, and sprinting to the front of the class, and bringing it down on Snape’s greasy head —

(GoF, 300-301)

In the above quote, Harry has these thoughts while Snape is reading his mind — there's eye contact. So Severus sees these thoughts from Harry and doesn't separate this from James, he sees it and thinks that Harry very much might actually spill his entire cauldron on him — like James might've done. So, Severus is taking every instance like this to justify his fear of Harry and his need to keep him down.

With Neville it's different. He doesn't fear Neville the way he fears Harry, I think he does see Neville as someone weaker. In the case of Neville, Severus is, I think, doing what a lot of bullies do, picking on a weaker link to feel better about himself. More in control, more capable. Neville being next to Harry is kinda part of it, I don't think Snape would've been as harsh with Neville if he wasn't near Harry, who makes Snape kinda lose it and feel unbalanced and insecure in his position because he sees him as James more than as Harry.

And I agree with you second Anon, personality-wise, I think Harry isn't very similar to James at all. And he definitely has some of Lily's traits in him, but he's not her either, he's his own person. Something Snape willfully chooses not to see. It's easier for him not to see it, so he chooses not to, so he can keep up with his petty vengeance towards a dead man.

As for why other teachers didn't call him out, well, I think the Wizarding World has a very different approach to child care than the modern western world does.

We know Corporal punishment was allowed at Hogwarts and the Wizarding World at large. One of the good things Dumbledore did as a headmaster was stop the use of it at the castle, but it was socially acceptable in the WW even in the 1990s. Actually, even in the muggle UK in the 1990s caning was still allowed in private schools, and Harry is clearly aware of this fact:

“Excuse me, Professor Flitwick, could I borrow Wood for a moment?” Wood? thought Harry, bewildered; was Wood a cane she was going to use on him? But Wood turned out to be a person, a burly fifth-year boy who came out of Flitwick’s class looking confused.

(PS, 109)

Because this is something that was still practiced in the UK. Harry actually had to lie to Aunt Marge that he was getting canned at St. Brutus school since that's something that happened there.

And it also happened in the Wizarding World until very recently, Molly says Arthur still has marks from what was most likely a caning when he was at Hogwarts:

Mrs. Weasley grinned, her eyes twinkling. “Your father and I had been for a nighttime stroll,” she said. “He got caught by Apollyon Pringle — he was the caretaker in those days — your father’s still got the marks.”

(GoF, 616)

Umbridge (and the Carrows) later returns corporeal punishment to Hogwarts, and it's quite clear there is no law against it in the WW:

“Approval for Whipping . . . Approval for Whipping . . . I can do it at last. . . . They’ve had it coming to them for years. . . .” He [Filch] pulled out a piece of parchment, kissed it, then shuffled rapidly back out of the door, clutching it to his chest.

(OotP, 673)

Molly actually beat Fred with a broom (or at least attempted to) and it's considered fine and legal and not abuse:

“Seen the Fizzing Whizbees, Harry?” said Ron, grabbing him and leading him over to their barrel. “And the Jelly Slugs? And the Acid Pops? Fred gave me one of those when I was seven — it burnt a hole right through my tongue. I remember Mum walloping him with her broomstick.” Ron stared broodingly into the Acid Pop box.

(PoA, 200)

Because the Wizarding World (and the UK) in the 1990s had a very different view on abuse and domestic violence. So, yeah, I don't think Severus considered what he did abuse, he considered it harsh discipline, like he himself received as a child. The way everyone ignores Harry's (and Snape's as a child) very clear signs of being abused is also telling. A rough hand and insults with disobedient children is just considered what you do, and not horrifyingly gross behavior like we see it today.

And the other teachers don't step in, because they consider it just as legal and acceptable as Snape. Because it is in the Wizarding World.

Re-read this bit in Half-Blood Prince again and thinking about how blatantly it seems to be telling us that Harry is biased against Snape and our impression of him thus far has been clouded by seeing him through Harry's eyes (emphases mine):

‘The Dark Arts,’ said Snape, ‘are many, varied, ever-changing and eternal. Fighting them is like fighting a many-headed monster, which, each time a neck is severed, sprouts a head even fiercer and cleverer than before. You are fighting that which is unfixed, mutating, indestructible.’ Harry stared at Snape. It was surely one thing to respect the Dark Arts as a dangerous enemy, another to speak of them, as Snape was doing, with a loving caress in his voice? . . . ‘He tried to jinx me, in case you didn’t notice!’ fumed Harry. ‘I had enough of that during those Occlumency lessons! Why doesn’t he use another guinea pig for a change? What’s Dumbledore playing at, anyway, letting him teach Defence? Did you hear him talking about the Dark Arts? He loves them! All that unfixed, indestructible stuff -‘ ‘Well,’ said Hermione, ‘I thought he sounded a bit like you.’ ‘Like me?’ ‘Yes, when you were telling us what it’s like to face Voldemort. You said it wasn’t just memorising a bunch of spells, you said it was just you and your brains and your guts - well, wasn’t that what Snape was saying? That it really comes down to being brave and quick-thinking?’ Harry was so disarmed that she had thought his words as well worth memorising as The Standard Book of Spells that he did not argue.

Half-Blood Prince, Ch. 9

There's a direct contrast being drawn from one scene to the next between Harry's perception of Snape and Hermione's less-biased, more critical one. Where Harry hears a "loving caress" for the dark arts in Snape's voice, Hermione hears the passionate, determined explanation that Harry gave a year earlier - one based in a firsthand understanding of what it takes to protect oneself from harm against dark magic.

This is also the first scene in this book where we see Snape teaching a class. The first time he shows up in the book is when he's entrusted by Tonks to deliver Harry safely to the Great Hall from the school gates. So the first encounter with Snape in HBP is as Harry's protector, be it begrudging or not, and the second is one where an immediate parallel is drawn after between him and Harry, Hermione questioning the latter's bias and hinting to the reader that judging him based on Harry's perception may not paint an accurate picture of Snape. Through the rest of the book we see Harry have an increasingly hostile relationship with Snape while developing a great fondness for the Half-Blood Prince, despite it also being Snape, only Harry doesn't know that, so he's able to see his humor and cleverness.

This theme is a dominant one throughout the book, though it doesn't become clear until the end when we find out Snape was the Half-Blood Prince, but by then our impression of the Prince is murky given the unexpectedly violent outcome of Harry trying out Sectumsempra (and it can be argued he's to blame for doing so against another person instead of finding out what the spell does in a safer way), and our impression of Snape is even worse given that he'd just killed Dumbledore. We don't find out until the next book that Snape had been fighting on the same side as Harry the whole time, risking - and eventually losing - his life for the same cause. In retrospect, Rowling (boo, hiss) spends a lot of time in HBP dropping breadcrumbs that Harry's impression of Snape - and thus the reader's - is affected by bias and thus inaccurate.

so many harry potter fans completely erase snape's past and write it over to make him a snobby rich kid who speaks like he's 40 year old count and i think it is so interesting.

because it proves to me that the reality of snape being a kid living in a poverty stricken and abusive household on spinner's end makes you all uncomfortable.

i sure know it made me uncomfortable to re-read the books for the first time and see all the comments about his greasy hair and sallow skin with the new knowledge that these were markers of his poor upbringing. we've heard the saying how being poor never really goes away. snape keeping these two markers as an adult is the author's way of doing it. he's an adult with a better income now but he never quite shakes off spinner's end.

he also stays there as an adult as a way to punish himself, if the front room described as a 'padded cell" is any indicator. he can't move on and he won't allow himself to, and dumbledore won't allow it either. it is he who twists the knife with harry's eyes and tells him this is the only thing he can do to prove he truly loved lily. despite you know, dumbledore apparently not believing this dhe to his shock at snape's patronus 17 years later.

both times in snape's past when he butts heads with petunia is because she insults his background, something he cannot control. she calls him the 'snape boy' from spinner's end, a clearly 'turn up my nose' moment. harry goes through most books referring to snape as 'snape' because snape is a bully and therefore does not have harry's respect. many times adults correct him to say professor. and his first name isn't said often. so this puts a distance to him, almost others him to this 2D character. but 'snape' is an actual person, with feelings and a past, present and future. so severus snape doesn't take kindly to people insulting his family which is why he claps back at petunia.

we also know snape is a muggle name, his muggle father tobias' name. we only find out in book 6 that snape is a half blood. because what wizarding family do you know with the name 'snape'. and prince isn't part of the sacred 28 either. when harry breaks into snape's memories accidentally in occlumency, seeing those three quick snapshots of his life, it's the first time snape starts to become a real person to harry.

moreover, 8 year old snape is described as dirty, unwashed, wearing clothes that are so mismatched it looks deliberate. he hasn't got clothes of his own, wearing an adults jacket and a woman's smock. snape's family either cannot afford to properly clothe or wash their child or they simply don't care too. when petunia insults him again, this time instead of his father she goes for his mother, as she points out snape wearing his mother's blouse, we get another example of underage magic as he causes a tree branch to fall on her.

now despite this, we know it is likely snape really did want to cause her harm due to her insult. snape already is shown to have poor social skills and snaps rather quickly at any point of animosity, but he was also raised in an abusive household. his father whipped him, and shouted at his mother and god knows what else. makes sense that an 8 year old responds to tension with either insults or violence, mirroring his home. snape is also very reluctant to talk about his homelife at all, ending the conversation very pointedly with "he doesn't like anything much." so it's not surprising that a child raised in this kind of environment would respond violently. even worse, he does it without really realising what he has done considering he looked confused when petunia and lily ran away.

on platform 9 and 3/4, snape is eager to get out of his muggle clothes and when put next to james potter, the stark difference between someone who has been loved and adored and someone who hasn't is explicitly put in the books. and lastly when snape calls lily a mudblood after being yanked upside down exposing dirty underwear, lily points that out. her way of saying 'don't you dare say you are better than me - im filthy? how about you wash your clothes.'

all in all, i think the fans write over this backstory because people do not want to give snape any sympathy. he's not the right kind of sympathetic character. he's an unpleasant adult who made terrible decisions. therefore his tragedy doesn't count. it's much easier to hate him when in your head, snape is a rich, snobby supremacist, rather than a penniless, neglected and woefully misguided teenager.

odd that peope can understand the impact of certain characters childhoods like sirius, regulus, draco or harry and how it affected their actions as teens and later adults...

but not snape.

in fact, snape is probably the poorest character in the entire series apart from maybe voldemort, although the orphanage didn't seem underfunded or anything. fans characterise lupin as poor but there is little evidence for him being poor as a child, more as an adult. i've seen people say this was because of the fact that his father worked at the ministry and arthur weasley worked there and he is not rich but the weasley's are poor because there are 7 of them living on one income. and we can assume lupin's muggle mother worked. if anything, lupin's childhood was comfortable but became unstable due to them constantly moving after he was bitten.

abd that's pretty much it, we don't know too much about anyone else. the dursleys are middle class as are hemrione's dentist parents and while the weasley's are poor, they are not poverty stricken - ron never goes hungry. snape also never really adresses his muggle past either. he doesnt bring it up ever. for all his 'life is unfair', he never speaks about that part of his life, choosing to solely reference the marauders. and the two main bullies, james and sirius both being rich kids bullying the poor boy is not lost on me. especially when they constantly reference his greasy hair all the time.

poverty greatly affects a person well into adulthood and we see with snape; it never really goes away. sure he's well spoken now, and doesn't wear mismatched muggle clothing but the remnants are still there. in fact, one of the reasons he hates harry intially is because he thinks the boy has been pampered. quite unlike his upbringing. so i think it's telling how many people refuse to acknowledge its very existence or the how it shaped snape as a person.

becuase i think it all makes you feel really uncomfortable. why else would you ignore or completely erase it?

Why do you think severus lives in his old childhood home still?

I think it was an intentional move by JKR to show that he never moved on from the past. Severus was a man who was incapable of moving on, incapable of letting go of his trauma and anger. The fact that he lives in his childhood home, the place where he met Lily and the place where he endured his father’s abuse, symbolises how he was unable to move on from his childhood. But if you’re looking for a more “realistic” answer, then I suspect he never cared enough to put in the effort of moving out since he stayed at Hogwarts for most of the year, and he might have also had debts to pay off from when his parents were alive.

Bonus: I also remember someone saying he might’ve stayed in Spinner’s End because it was where he met Lily and where all of his happiest memories with her were. And during the 2nd chapter of Half-Blood Prince (Spinner’s End), we can see that he was in a better mood than he usually was. He likes Narcissa and would of course be happy to see her, but his pleasantness might also be because of that reason. And I’m sure he didn’t like living in his childhood house, but I think he liked the neighbourhood and the areas where he and Lily would also hang out. Though I think that’s only part of the reason as to why he stayed there.

So many people who say that Snape can't be a victim in the situation with the marauders because he hurts them (and/or others, e.g. calling Lily a mudblood) in return have clearly never seen an abusive relationship before and while I'm genuinely so, so happy that their life experience has allowed them to avoid it, it makes me scared that when they do come across one, they're going to pull this same shit.

Y'all... very, very rarely in a situation of peer or domestic abuse is the hurt one-sided. Often, because of the fact that the abuser has skewed the power in the relationship so far in their direction, the victim lashes out, too. Sometimes in self-defense, sometimes in anger or desperation, sometimes even proactively to avoid what they think will be a more dangerous situation later.

The misconception that victims never fight back or hurt their abusers makes it harder for many victims to realize that they are in abusive situations at all. (For example, no matter how many boxes they can check on any 'are you in an abusive relationship' questionnaire, they can't be being victimized, because they, say, threw a book at them that one time.) Abusers use this to discourage their victims from seeking help; many people think that since they're not the "perfect victim", they won't be believed. And esp in domestic situations, abusers also often hold these incidents over the victim for increased control and to justify even more abusive behavior ("you make me do it").

It's all about the fear, the control, and the power dynamic; the victim doesn't need to be morally perfect nor have done nothing wrong in the relationship to "deserve" the label. They may hurt the abuser back, take out their anger on innocent people, or even become the abuser in other relationships—and that doesn't make them not a victim themselves.

Was the way Snape reacted to the abuse by his peers—calling Lily a mudblood, developing hexes, and using them back—good? No, obviously not; his violent responses to being victimized and his concurrent radicalization led to some very dark places for him. Doesn't change the fact that he was a victim. Does his being a victim excuse his choice to join the Death Eaters, turn over the prophecy, and bully his students? Nope; he had agency and he made the wrong choices. But he's still a victim.

But I’ve heard people questioning if Snape was really traumatized by SWM. At first I had no idea what they were on about. How could Snape not be traumatized? Why are you even questioning this? But I figured what they meant was: why doesn’t Snape act the way I know traumatized characters to act? Why isn’t he having flashbacks or breaking down when being exposed to his triggers? 

Snape’s trauma is the angry aggressive kind. Snape’s trauma can be mistaken for a “grudge”. Because it’s not what people understand trauma to be.

In HBP, Harry was trying to crucio Snape and do all this other stuff, and Snape was so unbothered by it. But the moment Snape noticed Harry was about to cast levicorpus on him, Snape completely lost his shit. Below was Snape’s response to Harry trying to cast levicorpus on him.

“No, Potter!” screamed Snape. There was a loud BANG and Harry was soaring backward, hitting the ground hard again, and this time his wand flew out of his hand.

This is Snape’s response to Harry trying to crucio him. Literally torture him.

But Snape parried the curse,

Like a casual “whatever”. Yeah Harry got knocked off his feet, but he didn’t go soaring backwards like he did when Snape responded to Harry’s levicorpus.

During occlumency lessons Snape manhandled Harry and threw him out of the room, after seeing Harry watching James Potter humiliate him.

I shouldn’t have to add disclaimers to my post, disclaimers should be givens. But unfortunately we haven’t reached that point yet.

Disclaimer: I don’t approve of Snape hurting Harry more than what he had to (Snape still had to defend himself in HBP) and I don’t approve of Snape physically hurting Harry in Snape’s Worst Memory chapter. 

I’m not saying that Snape’s way of expressing his trauma is okay. He needed therapy to help him learn to deal with and express his trauma in a less problematic way. The point is that Snape’s trauma is overlooked and lessened. Snape’s PTSD is called a “grudge.” 

Snape had a grudge against James Potter vs Snape was still traumatized by James Potter.

James’ change.

I will always maintain that James changed for the better. I won’t argue my point, because I’m not here to convince you that James changed.

There seems to be this “unspoken” “implied” message that because James changed, the damage he did to Snape doesn’t count anymore. Okay yeah James hurt Snape, but James changed, why can’t Snape just get over it?

I have zero problem with the idea of James changing. He grew as a character, happens to be morally grey, and actually has the capacity for good? Not a problem with me. He changed? Great.

If people spoke about James’ change like he fits in with one of the themes in HP, that people can change for the better.

But unfortunately James’ change isn’t spoken about like that. James’ change is treated like some sort of band aid to slap on Snape’s trauma. 

I am okay with James changing if we’re speaking about James’ overall character, as well as his character development. But, if a post is specifically about Snape’s trauma, then I don’t care how much James changed, and I don’t think “but James changed” should be slapped on any original post talking about the very real post traumatic stress disorder that Snape has because of James and Sirius’ bullying him for years. 

I was wondering for the longest time why some Snape fans were so salty over the idea of James changing. So the fuck what if he did change? Why is the very idea of James changing a bad thing? Why is it so hurtful? My response to James’ changing was “meh cool.” Like I’m not jumping up and down in joy over it, but I don’t find the idea of James changing personally offensive. 

But now I get why even the POSSIBILITY of James having changed is personally offensive for people. When we hear the statement James changed, it’s hardly ever on an original post. It’s nearly always some Snape anti James stan coming onto a post (that is appropriately tagged) talking about Snape’s PTSD and they come onto that post and say “but James changed.” As in yeah but whatever about the emotional pain Snape had to suffer from years later, yeah but whatever about his triggers because James changed.

“James changed” has become a symbol for dismissing Snape’s PTSD.

I now understand why people take “James changed” so personally, as if someone went up to them and slapped them across the face.