Duke And Jason

Duke and Jason

The interesting thing about Duke’s relationship with Jason is that though he is a part of the family, he wasn’t really there for a lot of the divisive things that happened when Jason came back. Duke also never knew Jason beforehand or encountered the ghost of previous Jason; Dick, Babs and Bruce knew Jason before, Tim, Cass, Steph, and almost everyone else had to live with the ghost of Jason’s death haunting their moves and their relationships with Bruce, before Jason came back. Duke, meanwhile, joined after Jason’s return, and for him the status quo has always been what it is. To Jason, having someone who never thought of him as different than the Jason he is would be very important to him. Despite Duke’s knowledge of the past, sometimes distance makes the biggest difference - and Duke has the luxury of not having any emotional entanglements into who Jason was.

In addition, Duke comes at a time where Jason is able to openly admit he has brothers - and very much considers him to be one.

Artemis: Honestly? It was like kissing my brother. If I had one. Jason: Thank god! I was thinking the same thing. And I have four.

On Jason’s side, he seems to have decided to take a sort of mentorship role for Duke. The main instance is in the Roll Call short story in which Jason and Duke do a fight simulation on a very high level and Jason shares his hard-won wisdom.

Panel One -  Jason: Lesson number one: quips and retorts should only be used for distraction.

Panel Two- Jason: Find your own way. Because following in the Batman’s footsteps and being something that you’re not – is the fastest way to get killed

Panel Three- Jason: No. That’s a given. Lesson number four? No matter how you feel or what you think… you’re never alone

Jason makes sure to tell Duke that no matter what, he’s never alone. Jason wants Duke to know that no matter what, he will always have his back but it means more than that. Jason had long periods of time where he thought he was abandoned, and he lashed out as a result; hurting himself and others. A lot of the advice Jason gives Duke is not only useful things, but things Jason wished that he knew when he was younger. It seems to imply that Jason might see a bit of himself in Duke, and that he sees it as his responsibility to help Duke become something better.

Jason: – How many times are you planning to die, Duke?

Roll call also has a scene that drives me insane in which Jason recreates being beaten to death by the Joker in front of Duke. It’s pretty ambiguous whether or not this was on purpose. If it was on purpose, was it to show Duke what happened to him, was it to confront his fears on his own terms with his brother next to him? If it was by accident, did he brush it off to make Duke feel safe, or was he okay with Duke seeing him like that because he trusts Duke? Either way, Jason is comfortable enough around Duke to feel safe with him seeing one of his biggest traumas.

Joker (standing over Jason with a crowbar): I guess it’s over your dead body

And, after they finish the simulation (and Duke of course jumps right in to help Jason), Jason’s right back to joking with Duke.

Jason: Heads up Narrows, more clay bastards on the horizon. Batwoman and her crew usually warm up in the mud room on a level four practive setting.

Duke continues to help save Jason, notably in the Cheer’s story arc.

Jason: … Have your back (urban legends 6)

(Although, it equally drives me insane that despite Duke helping Jason and Bruce in this arc, he’s the only member of the family to not be in both Jason and Bruce’s dream worlds which drives a lot of questions - do they not want Duke to have been a vigilante and thus part of the family? Has Duke’s entrance into the family been too recent for them to add them to their fairy dream worlds? Is the author simply forgetting to mention Duke being there even though Duke is in the comic saving Jason and Bruce? My personal interpretation is because Cheer deals very much with Jason wanting the Joker dead, a dead joker means that Duke’s parents were never Jokerized, and thus Duke couldn’t be a part of the family in a dream world where Joker was dead.)

Their relationship with what the Joker did to them is another huge parallel between Duke and Jason. When the Joker killed Jason, and when Duke’s parents were Jokerized mark a difference in both of their lives - now divided in the before Joker touched their lives and after. It’s interesting to see how both Jason and Duke expected Batman to save them initially, and ended up needing to take their lives into their own hands, though there are huge differences in the way Jason fought for revenge, when Duke’s feelings were expended on fixing his parents and not towards the joker. Of course, the two situations are not completely comparable, but it is a similarity that impacts their lives.

Duke (to Batman): I know you can save them. My parents. All of them. Just like you always do.

They also have nicknames for each other! Jason calls Duke “Narrows”, which is a pretty outspoken acknowledgment of some of their similarities, being children from Gotham. 

Panel One - Jason: Narrows, meet crime alley. we do things differently. Find a functional outfit.

Panel Two - Duke: Need help? Jason: No, narrows, I don’t

It is important to note that Duke and Jason’s living situation are not identical, though they are similar - the Narrows is often neglected in Gotham.

Jim Gordon (about the Narrows) : Its Gotham’s poorest neighborhood. Made up of nearly a dozen diverse communities. Its been let down over and over by the mechanisms put in place in order to protect it. Under-protected. Under-represented. It’s been burned so many times you are practically feel the embers everywhere.

However, as opposed to Jason, Duke did have a stable family as a child, his mom was a social worker and his dad was a construction worker. After his parents were jokerized, Duke had to live in a series of foster homes, so both Jason and Duke (along with Dick) were impacted by the childcare system in Gotham.

In addition to Jason being comfortable sharing himself with Duke, Duke is able to get by with a lot of jokes about sensitive topics in Jason’s life.

Duke (about Batman): And he’s not my boss. Or the the target of my daddy issues.

Jason: you’re the latest robin. You’re supposed to… whatever. Brighten his dark side. All that crap. So he doesn’t propose to a villain and then run off and do… This! Duke: Jay, what? Dude, when you were robin you got dead then came back as a vigilante villain! And you’re telling me to “brighten his dark side”. (Batman 33 (2016))

Duke: Question. Didn’t you die already?

If that had been anyone else, I don’t think Jason would have brushed it aside that easily! Anyways, Duke and Jason have a super interesting relationship and I hope more people keep exploring it!

I wanna talk about Janet Drake

I’m not against exaggeratedly evil versions of Tim’s parents, tbh. It’s fanfiction, if we can depict an Exaggeratedly Good version of Bruce (which we can, and I do, and I love) then we can depict the Drakes as Exaggeratedly Bad. As someone who personally identifies with Tim, and his brand of complicated parental abuse in particular, I find it cathartic to uncomplicate that abuse and rescue him from the Obviously Evil Bad People. 

That said, since much of comics lore is passed down word of mouth, the oral tradition surrounding Tim has developed this idea of Janet as The Worse Parent between her and Jack that was never really present in the comics. We see much LESS of Janet, and we have 20 years worth of comics depicting Jack as a neglectful hotheaded idiot who ultimate does love his son. More importantly, Jack isn’t very much LIKE Tim, so there is a habit to attribute Tim’s traits to his mother… and, as someone who really really identifies with Tim, Tim has… some negative traits. Tim can be a bitch sometimes. He’s fiercely intelligent and sweet and kind, with a strong sense of justice, but he can be cold and judgmental and unthinking - he fights those traits, but he does have them. 

And it is perfectly fine to depict Janet that way. I’ve enjoyed depictions of Cold Calculating Janet Drake, but it’s not the ONLY option, and I want to challenge fans to consider different avenues. Tim could pick up these traits from anywhere: a nanny, Mrs. Mc Ilvaine (”Mrs. Mac”), a teacher, tv, Sherlock Holmes novels, Bruce Wayne himself. Tim is capable of not being like EITHER parent. 

So, what do we KNOW about Janet? (I’ll also touch on Jack, but only in scenes he appears with Janet.) 

When Janet was first introduced she was depicted as a gentle but “modern” woman. This was written in 1989, told by a 13 year old Tim, so this theoretically was meant to take place in 1979. I’m not here to give a lecture on the history of sex discrimination in the united states, but much of the legislation protecting women in the workforce or surrounding women’s bodily autonomy would have been very very new in this initial depiction. 

Here, Janet is shown to be encouraging, emotional, maternal, and projects her own feelings onto Tim. Jack is shown to be slightly sexist, possibly discouraging, but not overbearing. And the artist is shown not to know how to draw children. 

To insert some speculation, I think it’s important to note all the Drakes witnessed a terrible murder/accident that day. I point this out, because this is the last time Jack and Janet are depicted this way. It’s possible they changed as a result of this event specifically. 

However, this is also a story being told by Tim. It’s also possible these events aren’t really “real” at all, and Tim is misremembering what his parents were like as a three-year-old, possibly projecting a more palatable version of his parents into the narrative. This is entirely up to personal interpretation. 

In fact, the Drakes are shown in Legend of the Dark Knight attending Haly’s Circus, and the artist knows what a toddler looks like and they’re depicted as already having a slightly strained relationship. Jack is clearly on the defensive, and Janet seems to be passive-aggressive, though she could just be attempting to explain the situation to her toddler honestly. The intended tone isn’t especially clear. 

I do want to point out, in this depiction, Tim isn’t being carried like he was in the previous one. He’s walking ahead of his parents, which isn’t a terrible horrible crime, but could be dangerous in a crowded place like the circus. Might be a subtle hint to his parents overall neglect. 

Back to A Lonely Place of Dying, in Tim’s memories of the night he discovered Robin and Dick Grayson were the same person at nine-years-old, his parents are home, and watching TV together while Tim played… trucks, idk, in the living room with them. (This is semi-interesting, because you could say “oh, Tim liked vehicle toys as a kid” or you could extrapolate that this is another subtle indication of Jack’s sexism, providing Tim with appropriately “boy toys.” Either interpretation is valid. If Tim was assigned female at birth, would they have been given “girl toys,” or allowed to play with whatever they wanted?) 

This is, to my knowledge, the only panel of the Drakes when Tim is between ages 3 and 13. They’re all together, which might indicate that the Drakes were home more often when Tim was 9, only later going on business trips when Tim was “old enough” but… 

This is Tim’s boarding school when he’s 13. While most boarding schools in the US are for grades 9-12, Tim is clearly not a freshman at age 13; look how much younger the other kids in this panel are. In the US, the youngest you can attend most boarding schools is 7. 

That means Tim could have begun going to boarding school anytime between 7 and 13. He most likely spent all of middle school in boarding school, at least. There are an almost infinite number of possible ways the Drakes handled having a business that required lots of international travel, an archeology hobby, AND a very young child. Janet staying home until Tim was 7, 11, 13, is equally possible as the Drakes having a nanny until 7, 11, 13. Tim just doesn’t talk about that period of his life very much.

(”What about Mrs. Mac?” - it is unclear when Mrs. Mac begins working for the Drakes. We only see her when Jack comes out of his coma. She could either be a long standing staff member, or a recent hire.) 

Note: I’ve seen it said that it’s canon that “According to Tim, when his parents were home, they made a point to try and include him in their activities, bringing him along to events that were normally adults only.” I have never seen this panel, or I don’t remember it, so I cannot confirm, but I also cannot debunk this because… comics. 

By the time Tim is 13, Jack and Janet are away on business trips a lot, with limited communication, and no firm return date. If I’m feeling generous, I’d say it was harder to communicate internationally in 1990 than it is today. If I’m not feeling generous, I’d say the Drakes are extremely wealthy, and international communication was easier than ever before in the 80s and 90s. They’re not even going home to see Tim in a week or two, they’re going home and calling Tim at boarding school in a week or two. 

Even Bruce thinks its weird, though he doesn’t say so to Tim’s face. It’s written almost as if Tim’s parents’ neglect was meant to be a plot point that just got forgotten about. 

Tim’s parents are fighting at this point (their poor assistant), but Janet still goes with Jack on these business trips. And she’s clearly involved in the business, somehow, but the comics never SAY what Janet’s JOB is. We’re told Jack is the exec, but Janet is ONLY ever referred to as Jack’s wife, though they’re later described as the “heads” of the company, plural. 

Just to be clear, this is Jack’s business. There’s a perception that Jack is a bad business man because he and Janet fight over company decisions, and Jack looses the business after Janet dies, but Jack looses the company YEARS after Janet dies, and maintains it for about a year after No Man’s Land at that. We’re not told how Jack looses the business, but he’s got to be doing something right. Janet isn’t necessarily the “real brains” of Drake Industries. 

And I’m not… gonna… touch the… exploitation and racism because… I’m not qualified to do that. But, here’s the panel. The Drakes sure seem exploitative and racist in their business decisions. Someone else can… analyze that with more nuance. 

Regardless how how long they’ve been fighting, when their lives are in danger, the Drakes fall back into a loving husband and wife. Their marriage may be falling apart, but they do care about each other. 

I want to show these panels because it shows that Tim and Jack do have things in common. They’re both level headed in a crisis and can be somewhat cold in their practicality. Janet meanwhile and silent. Jack is later willing rant and rave at their captors, but Janet remains silent. 

That is, until they’re alone, and she finally lets herself fall apart. 

God, Jack can be obnoxious. Janet just looks miserable and resigned. I actually think Tim takes after his parents in this respect in equal measure. Tim can have a temper, but he can also be fairly melancholy and defeatist. 

Jack keeps reminding Janet to be strong and in control, which could be period typical sexism? But Jack seems so practiced and ready with the words of encouragement, and with Tim’s history with depression, I wonder if Janet has an inclination towards it as well. 

As the end approaches, when Jack brings up Tim, Janet seems to have a lot of regret. She talks about “wasting” the good things, and I don’t think it’s too big of a stretch to assume she’s talking about time spent with her only child. 

From this point on, Janet is at times spoken of, but not seen. Like here, when Jack says Janet wouldn’t approve of him and Tim being so “far apart.” He says this after he tells him he takes back his threat to send him back to boarding school, which might imply Janet was against the idea of boarding school? Though she obviously lost that argument when she was alive. 

Jack will of course renege on this later, but that’s Jack Drake for you. 

Or here in Tim’s illness induced dream, where he gets everything he wants. Though, since this is a fantasy of Tim’s, where his father and girlfriend are both more accepting and understanding than they are in real life, I would take this depiction of Janet with a grain of salt. 

After loosing Drake Industries, Jack thinks about Janet (though, they call her Catherine/Cathy for some fucking reason) during his depressive episode. And… uh… 

Hallucinates a Valkyrie???? Is this symbolic of suicidal thoughts, or is she… real? Or is he seriously hallucinating? 

Anyway, we’re not here to discuss Jack’s mental state, the fact that he forgot Tim’s birthday, or that concerning “I was going to knock some sense into you but you’re still bigger than me” statement from Tim, we’re here to talk about Janet. And even though this entire arc is about Jack mourning his first wife, they don’t SAY anything about Janet herself at all. I mean, they don’t even get her name right, so I guess what was I expecting. 

Then there’s Origins and Omens, which also doesn’t say anything about Janet, except that Tim’s memory of her is faulty - Janet was poisoned, her assistant Jeremy’s throat was slit on television, but Tim seems to have conflated the death he did see with the death he didn’t. 

The only piece of canon to suggest that Janet might be cold, is Tim compares her to Thalia. And even then, he’s really just saying Janet was protective of him. It’s kind of a scary look to make at your kid, but Bruce does the same thing, so. 

I do want to say… it’s not 100% clear if Tim is even talking about Janet. He could be talking about Dana. Dana was observably protective of Tim, though I don’t think he’s ever called her mom. He PROBABLY means Janet. 

And finally we have Tim visiting his mother’s grave (in a duel Christian/Jewish cemetery, make of that what you will), where Tim says she was “a little religious.”

And that’s it! That is all we know about Janet Drake in New Earth. Hardly the Mom From Hell, but she isn’t perfect. I’d be interested in seeing some alternate depictions of her within the fandom. 

I’m still gonna eat up Terrible Parents From Hell like a starving puppy dog, though. Just some food for creative thought. 

Who is Duke Thomas?

If you’ve read Batman Rebirth #1, you probably know at this point Bruce has pretty much officially adopted Duke Thomas into the Batfam.

But because of alienation many fans feel from the Nu52, a lot of people who haven’t read many recent comics are wondering just who Duke Thomas is. So I’m going to try and answer that the best I can. 

Back in Zero Year, when Bruce was first starting out as Batman, the Riddler challenged the city to get smart or die by “natural selection”. So Duke started swatting up to, you know, not die. The Thomas family also rescued a unconscious Bruce Wayne when a sudden hurricane hit Gotham around the same time as Zero Year. Bruce thanks Duke, then he’s off to tackle the Riddler.

Look at how cute baby Duke is. 

Anyways, Duke disappears for a little while then reappears during Endgame. The Joker having figured out Batman’s true identity and his connection to Duke, kidnaps Duke and his family and plans to recreate the Wayne murders in front of Bruce and Duke by using Duke’s parents. It’s all pretty grisly stuff. 

Bruce manages to rescue Duke from the Joker, but Duke’s parents succumb to the mind controlling gas of the Joker. 

After that, I’m not sure what happens to Duke’s parents. I think they were missing at first, then get found but there is still no cure for the Joker gas, so I think they still aren’t well enough to look after Duke which explains why he’s being shuffled around foster homes in We Are Robin #1.

He’s also a massive nerd.

Throughout the We Are Robin run, though short-lived, we see Duke grow from an immature, unruly teenager into a mature leader of his little gang of Robins. (Although there is still some sassiness left in this boy yet.) We also see the significance of Duke as a leader and a kind of “stand-out” Robin and the bond that begins to form between him and some of the Batfam members, particularly Dick and Damian, in the crossover event, Robin War. 

Leadership:

The sass:

And finally the bonding. Let’s start with Damian first. Basically Robin War is all about the repercussions of reckless Robins that leads to the police arresting all kids associated with Robin in any way, as simple as wearing the Robin logo or even wearing red shoes like in the above panel. But of course, nothing is ever that simple in Gotham and the Court of Owls is secretly pulling the strings in an attempt to draw Dick out and have him join the club. 

So anyways, Duke and Damian’s first meeting goes down exactly how you would expect it to. Damian beats Duke (and his friends) up. 

Keep reading

The Reverse Robin au except the first Robin is literally just a big chunk of Gothams youth population, like just several teens ranging from 13 to 19 dressed up in red, green, and yellow clothes committing mass acts of vigilantism, identifying as one individual. They're somehow organized as fuck and have a lil scheduling system which only allows 10 Robin's out per night. Eventually Bruce is like "ok this fucking ridiculous, we're choosing ONE Robin" and all the other Robins nominate Duke. And while this point forward (at least till a couple years later) Duke is Bruces only Robin, it doesn't stop Duke from having Robin family reunions in the Wayne Manor backyard

I always wonder whether Batfam fans really get just how fucking rich the Waynes are. Like of course we shy away from thinking about the fact that we're talking Musk and Bezos money, and focus on how Bruce funds the freaking Watchtower and has what is functionally a high-tech military base and lab and the world's most expensive vehicles. But this is the one time you don't have to factor in the implications of wealth-hoarding, so there's nothing preventing y'all from understanding exactly how much money we're talking about here.

For instance, there doesn't seem to be any concept of how palatial Wayne Manor is, simply going by the outer facades of it that appear in the comics and movies. Or how decadent the lifestyles that accompany that kind of ancestral home. Alfred couldn't run that place on his own even if he had super powers, which is why even the movies occasionally show a rotating probably-temporary staff in the background. The house probably has like 3 hundred-foot pools. Their garden is a protected heritage park.

The Waynes are 10x richer than Crazy Rich Asians. They buy and wear the jewelry worth hundreds of millions that belonged to royalty. They own private islands. The art in the house alone is worth more than the GDP of a small country. They went to school with like every US President since Teddy Roosevelt and still think the Rockefellers are new money. They're personal friends with Beyonce and can get her to perform at private parties. They can rent out an entire three-star Michelin restaurant and fly out to one for every date. They have top-line penthouse apartments in every major city in the world. They can buy a luxury sportscar instead of hiring a vehicle anywhere they visit and then just toss the keys to the nearest person on their way out (Arab royalty is known for this appearently. There's been some very lucky parking valets in the UAE iirc).

Bruce is as rich as Ra's Al Ghul, regularly make social calls to heads of state and his family has a history of being king-makers. Every one of Bruce's children, from Dick to Jason to Cass, is poised to inherit one of the largest and most powerful empires in the world. That means every time Bruce adopts an orphan off god-knows-where, the entire global elite is thrown into consternation and horror. Even Tim is barely acceptable to these people because he doesn't have the pedigree. I don't follow the reboot comics so Idk if Duke is adopted, but it would be so fucking funny if he was because they'd react a lot like the British establishment did to Meghan Markle (except the family and WE would have Duke's back completely). As for Damian, the fact that he's not white would get him snubbed if everyone who's anyone didn't 100% know who Ra's Al Ghul is. And they're fucking terrified because, for maximum hilarity, they probably figure that Bruce doesn't.

I just find it incredibly fucking funny when I'm reading fics that the writers can only imagine Bruce and the kids's civilian privileges extend only to "big house", "a lot of cars" and "Gotham famous". Lol. Lmao even.

...

Edit: Explanation for people justifiably skeptical that Bruce could be rich as Ra's (scroll down)

Robbie Reyes as textposts