Free Jon Snow From Jonsa - Tumblr Posts

POL JON RIDDLES

HELP ME OUT GUYS

Riddle #1: IT'S GREED AND TYRANNY WHEN DANY WANTS TO TAKE BACK HER FAMILY'S DYNASTY but it's righteous and right and empowering when the Starks (Sansa) want to take back the North. THE TARGARYENS ARE THE REAL COLONIZERS NO DOUBLE STANDARDS HERE WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT.

Riddle #2: Dany's love is cheap compared to her greed for the Iron Throne!!!11

...So why does Jon need to sexually use, abuse, manipulate, and fake his love for the power crazed Dany ala Pol!Jon to steal her armies and dragons if her worthless love is so cheap then...? It's not like sex is going to help out Jon's lacking martial forces much or add sense to the non-sensical Pol!Jon. Or what, does that not fulfill the Jonsa teen scene dreams of sweet sweet betrayal for thy true love Sansa?

Riddle #3:

"It's preposterous to think Jon, who has always tried to do the right thing, would betray(or even kill) his aunt just for shits and giggles."

So what is Jon, Jonsas? An uber asshole who is Sansa's personal garbage disposal? And will callously abuse, use, and manipulate a rape victim? Or does he have a conscience? Because yeah, I think the the two are mutually exclusive here. How does a decent person with a conscience (who Jon is supposed to be) do this to... anyone? Why would Jon do this to Dany? What has Dany done to warrant this? Conquer? Robb Stark, Jon's brother and best friend. Stannis Baratheon, the claimant Jon supported in ADWD. The Young Dragon, Jon's idol. How dare Dany want to take back her family's dynasty! Just like the Starks!! All the Northern houses love the Starks and want them back! (Except the ones who don't) The Skagosi too!! (Except they keep rebelling when the Starks try to force them to submit...) But seriously, since when does Jon hate Targaryen conquests? Or... Targaryens? But I digress, let's look at Pol!Jon. In contrast, Pol!Jon hates the young conquerer Dany! How dare Dany conquest!! Pol!Jon doesn't idolize the Dorne-invading dragon-riding Young Dragon!! Eww!!! But here's the thing: nothing about Pol!Jon makes Jon the hero as this particular Jonsa likes to argue. Everything makes him the asshole -- from every angle. Jon can't be a hero performing 100% villainous, unnecessary, and stupid stupid actions all so he can dispose of one girl (Dany) so he can go ahead and marry another girl (Sansa) who looked down on him in childhood for wholly classist reasons. (No no, no misogyny here!) Everything Jon does in this scenario justifies Dany (or Dany's supporters) going to war against him -- and the North -- because it's treason. How can Jon realistically get away with that. How would GRRM let Jon realistically get away with that. For Jonsa?

It doesn't matter how much of an asshole you are dying for Dany to be, it won't make Pol!Jon any less of an asshole in his characterization or actions toward Dany.

And if Pol!Jon hates Dany so much that he's willing to abuse, use, and callously exploit a rape victim when her love for him is apparently so "cheap" (because apparently, these are your versions of them), it seems like he is doing extreme stuff for shits and giggles -- and to make the situation far far worse (handing Dany a reason to go to war against the North, intentions to start another civil war despite multiple wars going on and the North's lacking resources, making an enemy of a powerful queen and during a time of probable desperation...).

I'd call that psychotic. (On another note, I'm a Jon stan but... uh, there are times in ASOIAF when Jon does not do quite the right thing...)

I know Aegony has been theorized as endgame ship for a reason but imo those are the same people who have grossly mischaracterized something about Dany and Jon.

The irony.

They are the same ones who have denied Dark Dany and insist how her greed for the IT was actually just her doing her duty as the last Targ and that Sansa was the power hungry one actually.

Hilariously, this happened in the same show Jonsa never became close to canon (not matter what Jonsa conspiracy theories say), the same show in which Sansa kept risking the life of her "beloved" brother Jon and betrayed him multiple times (funny, Dany never did that...), and the same show of which GRRM has repeatedly said his ending would be different. Oops :) And Jonsas wonder why the fandom has a problem with them.

guys, help a jonsa out

Jonsas want to know why Jonsa is so hated.

Jonsas answer.

Jonsas may want to consider the following if they're truly looking for genuine answers:

They claim anti Sansa bias from Jonsa antis but hammer home their Dany hate and harp on Dany as a "slaver" and Dany as a "white savior", going so far as to call Dany fans "slaver apologists" (who are the ones criticizing Dany for burning 163 slavers and saying she's disrespecting slavers' "customs"?) -- maybe consider your own Dany hate first, Jonsas:

Do Jonsas ever consider GRRM refuting Dany as a white savior or saying how Dany wants equality?

They come up with takes like the nonsensical Pol!Jon which turns Jon into a garbage human abuser scumbag and Dany into a brain dead sex bot tyrant whose favourite food is baby blood. Sansa though? Pure as she is pretty.

Arya gets to either be Sansa's bloodthirsty enemy or in service to Sansa (as Sansa's personal bodyguard, assassin, executioner, or new direwolf warned into Nymeria). It's either/or, guys.

Meanwhile, Rickon gets to be dead while Bran is just... over there... away from the North (but in full support of Queen Sansa of the independent Northern kingdoms of course, hands off but always ready to help)

Jonsas say they want good things for Sansa but there's no consideration for the other side of their ship, Jon, or what he wants (rather, they claim his own words and feelings on the matter mean nothing when it comes to what he wants). Jon wants a woman who is a distinctly non-traditionally feminine woman (and I imagine much less one who takes after the woman who was the main source of misery for Jon when he was growing up at Winterfell) -- but that can't at all be a reason why the fandom finds Jonsa to be implausible no, it just comes down to Sansa hate.

I wonder if Jonsas have ever considered that not all who think Jonsa is implausible are Dany fans/Jonerys/or Jonarya shippers, or believe in a happy ending for these characters or any characters or these couples or any couples and just think Jonsa is a desperate reaching crackship

Why is Jonsa essential to Sansa having a happy outcome? And why is it plausible Sansa (especially only Sansa or only the approved Starks) get a happy-ending Disney-esque storyline?

Jonsas, we don't need assumptions. Your posts speak for themselves. And speaking of...

Only to be combatted by the terrible, disapproving, biased fandom who obviously are only doing so because they hate Sansa... :(

Gee, I wonder why Jonsa isn't accepted by the fandom :)

A bit of a laugh with a bigger side of intellectual dishonesty

Now who would have a problem with this?!

meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!

The thing about blatant lies, intellectual dishonesty, and deliberate misrepresentation for the most superficial of reasons with no respect for accuracy or the canon material (in this case, the show's scripts) is that they get to a place just under my throat and form this pressure where I just want to topple a dresser onto something loud and exceptionally glassware.

So with that said, let's look at some comments from the Jonsa community!

Oh great, now we know where this is going.

AND GUYS:

And this next Jonsa is...

Neither this Jonsa or these Jonsa posters can figure out why Jonerys fans and others would have a problem with this gifset that is deliberately misrepresenting the Jonerys ship or their favourite characters? Or why people would have a problem with Pol!Jon, a wholly misogynistic, sexist, prejudiced, backwards theory that makes no narrative or strategic sense? A theory that turns Dany into an evil bimbo and Jon into the new Littlefinger while Sansa stays perfectly perfect in every way? Neither view or direction was supported on the show, yet the latest Jonsa has the boldness to use the words 'canon' in connection with this gifset. "Canon moments" the gif maker is deliberately misrepresenting and presenting as one of Jon's false smiles -- as if Dany is Littlefinger or Ramsay to Jon. Oh, how Jonsas only wish... However! :) I can answer the latest Jonsa's questions -- which delightfully seem to be written as if they are already in defence of this Jonsa contextualization:

Why would Jon be so attached to an uncle and grandfather he never met? In contrast, Jon has met and gotten to know Dany (who is his paternal aunt btw) over the course of at least several months to about a year. Depending on how much time he's spent with Dany, Jon may know her better than Sansa given Jon and Sansa didn't know each other well until they reconnected in season 6.

Why would Jon smirk in defiance as the party who crucially needs help and needs help ASAP? Is the vanity of the North really that important? (And yeah, I will call it vanity because at this point, fucking independence <<<<<<<<< ice apocalypse)

Why would Jon be uncomfortable with Dany's affection? Canonically, he returned her affection -- in the 7x05 goodbye scene, Jon is trying to focus on his mission to destroy the Night King and he's pushing his feelings away (ie. "There's no time for [romance]"). In the 7x07 scene, Jon and Dany are having one of those rare rare rare happy moments on Game of Thrones while commiserating over their circumstances.

Why would Jon smile over being unable to get Dany to forget about Cersei rather than a shared gallows-humour joke between himself and Dany?

Additionally, why is Sansa allowed to be worried about Cersei in 7x01 and criticize Jon for being "too focused on the Night King", but Dany can't still be worried about Cersei even though Dany is the one who is in active war with Cersei?

Lastly, why can't Jonsas just keep their hands to themselves and to their ship?

This is why I hate Jonsas.

Most of the backlash towards Jonsa is because it’s a Sansa ship that elevates her politically and narratively. An Arya’s stan said that Sansa falling in love with a handsome young man would ruin her arc because her arc is most definitely not about agency. No no no, Sansa’s arc is about a pretty teenage girl learning to love ugly and much older men who terrified, belittled, or tried to rape her. Sansa is always depicted by the Jonsa fandom as a female characters having the choice, being on equal ground, in her relationship with Jon. She is not a frightened little girl forced to be the nurse/emotional punching bag of an abusive, misogynistic, and bigoted man wronged by everyone here, so it must definitely rub them in the wrong way. There’s also that fact that Jonsa is a Sansa ship that doesn’t punish and degrade her for the crime of being a CHILD who always liked really feminine things, tried to be all that a lady “should be”, had sweet unrealistic dreams, and couldn’t see how harsh the real world is because of how relatively sheltered she had been.

You're right in that Jonsa as a ship definitely considers Sansa Stark. I'd argue it considers only Sansa Stark.

However, that's not all it does.

My backlash against Jonsa is because:

Jonsa completely ignores the agency/tastes/preferences/and characterization of Jon Snow to put Sansa on "equal ground" in a romantic relationship with Jon. Jonsa rewrites Jon to be a totally different character, a support character for Sansa Stark: the central character of A Song of Sansa and Sansa.

Jonsa turns Jon Snow into a garbage human in deeply misogynistic ways and completely disregards his arc all in the interest of securing Sansa's safety/desires and elevating her character. Jon is turned in Sansa Stark's Prop Prince lapdog, using his penis to sexually abuse, use, manipulate, and dispose of -- you guessed it! Dany.

And speaking of, Dany is often turned into the favourite villainous punching bag by Jonsas to play as the Disney (often braindead) evil queen to the Jonsa princess Sansa and her bodyguard husband prince Jon Snow, essentially flattening ASOIAF into a cardboard cutout fanfic fairytale Jonsas try to push as actual ASOIAF speculation.

You talk of "a pretty teenage girl learning to love ugly and much older men who terrified, belittled, or tried to rape her" yet Jonsas have discounted a 13-year old Dany being sold to and raped by a 30-year old Drogo because Dany ended up falling in love with him. If that's not bad enough, Jonsas ship a late-40s to 50 year old Euron Greyjoy with a 16-year old Dany because ViLlAin rOmAnCe. The hypocrisy is giving me a bit of a headache, sorry.

Jonsa the ship certainly will punish Arya for not being feminine or classist enough -- she's blamed for Mycah's death because she was playing with a boy below her class. She's said to not qualify for being a Lady or Lady of Winterfell because she's not ladylike enough or not "class conscious" enough. She's eliminated from any romance arc or having children of her own because she's not conventionally feminine. Jonsas punish Dany for her Targaryen bloodline, claiming Dany is a "blood purist" when she was overjoyed to carry her half-Dothraki baby and dreamed of his birth; has a Tyroshi lover; married a Meereenese noble. Where are Dany's blood purist thoughts again? That Targaryens have "madness" in her blood.

Some alarming views on femininity.

There’s also that fact that Jonsa is a Sansa ship that doesn’t punish and degrade her for the crime of being a CHILD who always liked really feminine things, tried to be all that a lady “should be”, had sweet unrealistic dreams, and couldn’t see how harsh the real world is because of how relatively sheltered she had been.

Nice strawman. Nobody is disliking Sansa because she's feminine or because she was dreamy. There are other feminine, girly characters in this series who don't draw the ire Sansa does. Those who dislike Sansa dislike her because of some character traits she demonstrates. The bullying behaviours she demonstrated toward Arya, the lack of concern she demonstrated toward Arya, the classism with which she viewed the world (looking down on Jon for his bastardy, looking down on bastards and smallfolk in general, looking down on Mycah). Sansa does hold to Westerosi's prejudices, which can be hard to take at times. These are canonical traits Sansa has.

Sansa is also fairly superficial sometimes and doesn't demonstrate a great care or concern for the people (ie. planning a gigantic feast while the country starves) so it's frustrating when Sansa stans and Jonsas try to push Sansa as the ideal, caring queen and leader while bashing Dany, Jon, and others to prop Sansa up. Characters who have real leadership experience in a series where leadership is meant to be difficult and truly explored.

And just a reminder: Jon, Arya, Bran, and Rickon grew up in the same home Sansa did, just as sheltered. They've been facing how harsh the real world has been from day 1.

Most of the backlash towards Jonsa is because it’s a Sansa ship that elevates her politically and narratively. An Arya’s stan said that Sansa falling in love with a handsome young man would ruin her arc because her arc is most definitely not about agency. No no no, Sansa’s arc is about a pretty teenage girl learning to love ugly and much older men who terrified, belittled, or tried to rape her. Sansa is always depicted by the Jonsa fandom as a female characters having the choice, being on equal ground, in her relationship with Jon. She is not a frightened little girl forced to be the nurse/emotional punching bag of an abusive, misogynistic, and bigoted man wronged by everyone here, so it must definitely rub them in the wrong way. There’s also that fact that Jonsa is a Sansa ship that doesn’t punish and degrade her for the crime of being a CHILD who always liked really feminine things, tried to be all that a lady “should be”, had sweet unrealistic dreams, and couldn’t see how harsh the real world is because of how relatively sheltered she had been.

You're right in that Jonsa as a ship definitely considers Sansa Stark. I'd argue it considers only Sansa Stark.

However, that's not all it does.

My backlash against Jonsa is because:

Jonsa completely ignores the agency/tastes/preferences/and characterization of Jon Snow to put Sansa on "equal ground" in a romantic relationship with Jon. Jonsa rewrites Jon to be a totally different character, a support character for Sansa Stark: the central character of A Song of Sansa and Sansa.

Jonsa turns Jon Snow into a garbage human in deeply misogynistic ways and completely disregards his arc all in the interest of securing Sansa's safety/desires and elevating her character. Jon is turned in Sansa Stark's Prop Prince lapdog, using his penis to sexually abuse, use, manipulate, and dispose of -- you guessed it! Dany.

And speaking of, Dany is often turned into the favourite villainous punching bag by Jonsas to play as the Disney (often braindead) evil queen to the Jonsa princess Sansa and her bodyguard husband prince Jon Snow, essentially flattening ASOIAF into a cardboard cutout fanfic fairytale Jonsas try to push as actual ASOIAF speculation.

You talk of "a pretty teenage girl learning to love ugly and much older men who terrified, belittled, or tried to rape her" yet Jonsas have discounted a 13-year old Dany being sold to and raped by a 30-year old Drogo because Dany ended up falling in love with him. If that's not bad enough, Jonsas ship a late-40s to 50 year old Euron Greyjoy with a 16-year old Dany because ViLlAin rOmAnCe. The hypocrisy is giving me a bit of a headache, sorry.

Jonsa the ship certainly will punish Arya for not being feminine or classist enough -- she's blamed for Mycah's death because she was playing with a boy below her class. She's said to not qualify for being a Lady or Lady of Winterfell because she's not ladylike enough or not "class conscious" enough. She's eliminated from any romance arc or having children of her own because she's not conventionally feminine. Jonsas punish Dany for her Targaryen bloodline, claiming Dany is a "blood purist" when she was overjoyed to carry her half-Dothraki baby and dreamed of his birth; has a Tyroshi lover; married a Meereenese noble. Where are Dany's blood purist thoughts again? That Targaryens have "madness" in her blood.

Some alarming views on femininity.

There’s also that fact that Jonsa is a Sansa ship that doesn’t punish and degrade her for the crime of being a CHILD who always liked really feminine things, tried to be all that a lady “should be”, had sweet unrealistic dreams, and couldn’t see how harsh the real world is because of how relatively sheltered she had been.

Nice strawman. Nobody is disliking Sansa because she's feminine or because she was dreamy. There are other feminine, girly characters in this series who don't draw the ire Sansa does. Those who dislike Sansa dislike her because of some character traits she demonstrates. The bullying behaviours she demonstrated toward Arya, the lack of concern she demonstrated toward Arya, the classism with which she viewed the world (looking down on Jon for his bastardy, looking down on bastards and smallfolk in general, looking down on Mycah). Sansa does hold to Westerosi's prejudices, which can be hard to take at times. These are canonical traits Sansa has.

Sansa is also fairly superficial sometimes and doesn't demonstrate a great care or concern for the people (ie. planning a gigantic feast while the country starves) so it's frustrating when Sansa stans and Jonsas try to push Sansa as the ideal, caring queen and leader while bashing Dany, Jon, and others to prop Sansa up. Characters who have real leadership experience in a series where leadership is meant to be difficult and truly explored.

And just a reminder: Jon, Arya, Bran, and Rickon grew up in the same home Sansa did, just as sheltered. They've been facing how harsh the real world has been from day 1.

Jon's inadequate tastes :(

Where -- in all of ASOIAF -- has Jon ever expressed that he himself feels inadequate or undeserving? That his skill level isn't up to par? That he's not smart enough? Not worthy enough? Not handsome enough? Not able-bodied enough? Not good enough for a traditionally feminine woman?

As far as I can note, Jon's issues with self-image and identity come from the prejudice and scorn he faces over his bastardy -- scorn and prejudice Catelyn and (to a lesser extent) Sansa participated in against Jon.

When Jon had been a boy at Winterfell, his hero had been the Young Dragon, the boy king who had conquered Dorne at the age of fourteen. Despite his bastard birth, or perhaps because of it, Jon Snow had dreamed of leading men to glory just as King Daeron had, of growing up to be a conqueror. Now he was a man grown and the Wall was his, yet all he had were doubts. He could not even seem to conquer those.

But that doesn't stop Jonsas from dreaming up these little head canons where Jon views himself as "the ogre", the "BEAST", and that he cannot get a girl like Sansa so he must "settle" for action girls like Ygritte and Val :'(

They won't even take Jon's word for it that he's just not looking for a traditionally feminine girl. I think it's notable how this particular part of the fandom tries to re-invent the character of Jon Snow. In this case, they try to remove Jon's taste for unconventional action girls, replace it with a taste for conventionally feminine women, and attempt to invent issues of inadequacy that Jon.... does not have. When has Jon ever thought of himself as an ogre. But no, Jon is definitely not into unconventional action girls. No, really. Jon secretly longs for and is into traditionally feminine girls who are just like Sansa -- you know, the sibling who was too classist to regard Jon as real family.

And then there's this:

??? So it's okay for Jon to be attracted to "softer" qualities like smiling and singing, which is what traditionally feminine women like Sansa do too (and certainly not exclusively), but violence? Done by women?!?!? Human women?!?!

How could he explain Ygritte to them? She's warm and smart and funny and she can kiss a man or slit his throat. "She's with Styr, but she's not . . . she's young, only a girl, in truth, wild, but she . . ." She killed an old man for building a fire. His tongue felt thick and clumsy. The milk of the poppy was clouding his wits. "I broke my vows with her. I never meant to, but..." It was wrong. Wrong to love her, wrong to leave her..." I wasn't strong enough. The Halfhand commanded me, ride with them, watch, I must not balk, I..." His head felt as if it were packed with wet wool.

(ASOS, Jon VI) Jon did not like Ygritte's murder of the old man because that old man was an innocent. He's not against women doing violence. What would GRRM be trying to say if he gave Jon that attitude? "I can do violence and so can my brothers, brothers-at-arms, my father, all the men I've known in my life, but not them womenfolk, nope, hate it."

All the same, the wildling princess was not beloved of her gaolers. She scorned them all as "kneelers," and had thrice attempted to escape. When one man-at-arms grew careless in her presence she had snatched his dagger from its sheath and stabbed him in the neck. Another inch to the left and he might have died. Lonely and lovely and lethal, Jon Snow reflected, and I might have had her. Her, and Winterfell, and my lord father's name. Instead he had chosen a black cloak and a wall of ice. Instead he had chosen honor. A bastard's sort of honor.

(ADWD, Jon III)

"I will take any boy above the age of twelve who knows how to hold a spear or string a bow. I will take your old men, your wounded, and your cripples, even those who can no longer fight. There are other tasks they may be able to perform. Fletching arrows, milking goats, gathering firewood, mucking out our stables … the work is endless. And yes, I will take your women too. I have no need of blushing maidens looking to be protected, but I will take as many spearwives as will come."

(ADWD, Jon V)

"These women have knives and know how to use them." "And the first time one of these spearwives slits the throat of one of our brothers, what then?" "We will have lost a man," said Jon, "but we have just gained sixty-three. You're good at counting, my lord. Correct me if I'm wrong, but my reckoning leaves us sixty-two ahead."

(ADWD, Jon V) Yeah, he's really horrified by women doing violence. I find it strange and a bit fascinating how completely inside out Jon has been turned so they can ship him with their favourite character (Sansa Stark). At the time GRRM conceived ASOIAF in the late 80s-early 90s, unconventional girls like Arya, Dany, Lyanna, Brienne, and others who participated in the action and led armies was uncommon in media. Buffy the Vampire Slayer debuted in 1997, a year after the first ASOIAF book was released, and it was noted for being one of the first of its kind -- featuring an action girl who looks like the typical female victim in a horror film but who, instead, turns around and slays. Jon is one of the very few men in the ASOIAF world who appreciates this kind of woman -- and I think that opens up a whole new facet of Jon. He increasingly becomes more and more unconventional as the story goes on as he breaks from one tradition after the other. Instead of "admiring Sansa from afar" as one Jonsa claims, GRRM points out that it is Arya-like individuals who Jon finds admirable:

"You know, I don't think it's a reference for that [for romance]. It's a reference to a certain physical type, and a certain indication of what Jon finds admirable. It's like someone who reminds you of, you know... Other people might be put off by this, you know, hair that looks like small rodents have been living in there. It doesn't put him off because he is used to that."

GRRM, May 2016

And it's this vision that helps Jon strengthen the Wall and protect other women along the Wall. What on earth would be the point of having Jon be disturbed by women doing violence? What would be the narrative purpose of trying to replace Jon's unconventional taste with entirely conventional tastes? Why can't Jon's type just... not include girls like Sansa?

When you put it all side by side, it really is quite astounding how none of these pairings have any relation to j0nsa. And we are not even touching op pretending Sara Snow was a real person.

jonsa shippers are the funniest clowns i've ever seen, i just read them going: "jon and sansa share so many parallels and it's such a shame we are the only part of the fandom willing to talk about them", like... can you stop for merely a second of your time and start thinking about the reason behind why it is like that?

there's nothing wrong with shipping a crackship, but at least own it, the fact you're so delusional about your ship and most of you actively insult and steal plotpoints from the only two characters who have actual romantic foreshadowing with jon: daenerys and arya, is something to consider about.

do you ever wonder why stansas are the only ones shipping jonsa? jon's fans would never touch that ship even with a ten foot pole. i would dare to say that if you ship jon snow with sansa, i'd assume you hate book!jon a lot, to actually do him like that.

also, another day another stansa lying about their fave canon personality and actual role in the asoiaf series, and playing victim when they're called out about being inaccurate in it. with nothing more to say that "you guys just hate femenine women" i mean the choice of word they used was "useless", because it always come back to thinking that everyone who dares to critic a stansa's post that is plagued with lies is a reddit dude bro... and i don't have doubts that type of people do exist, but i'm still waiting to encounter one in the wild.

y'all got your stansa's fic fantasy dreams fullfiled with the actual show that aired, honestly speaking i'm surprised that stansa d1 and stansa d2 weren't down to make jonsa happen, since they had already ruined the show with all the stansa propaganda they put on it (i suppose even people like them have limits). just stop trying to pass horrible plotpoints written by dumb&dumber as something that's actually asoiaf related.

jon snow is the only male character i’ve seen treated like a woman by a fandom but i love misandry so i stand with you guys. you strip him of all canon traits to fit whatever ship you want and make him a yes man to whichever woman you prefer that day and i think that’s beautiful

“jon will bow to his wife after making her queen, he’ll want none of her power and only live to serve her” jon barely bowed to absentee robb without having to grit his teeth and swallow his vomit but i’m dead serious when i say it’s payback for what people do to women characters so yes! jon will become a house husband bc why not

dany stans are obsessed with us — cabbage brained illiterate jonsas

literally them —

i'm sorry but i can't take it seriously when people say book jon wouldn't kill dany to protect his family or after what she did in kl.. yes, he absolutely would, even more firmly if anything

*LMFAO ROTF CTFU Sounds like typical jonas crackshipper peak delusion and peak clownery and peak in denial coping because it is🤣

Don’t care about the Snow series, just glad Kit and Sophie hate J/nsa to the point that it’ll never happen.

I keep seeing this post by J0nsas, that when Sansa is in the Eyrie and laments that no one will ever marry her for love, the chapter that follows hers is a Jon chapter, as if that is supposed to be foreshadowing.

Well, how about this:

Daenerys I, A Dance with Dragons

Five Aegons had ruled the Seven Kingdoms of Westeros. There would have been a sixth, but the Usurper’s dogs had murdered her brother’s son when he was still a babe at the breast. If he had lived, I might have married him.

And wanna know whose chapter follows directly after this one? That’s right, Aegon Targaryen’s…I mean, Jon Snow. Ohh and what is memorable line from the first page of that Jon chapter?

“Snow,” the moon murmured.

Jon I, A Dance with Dragons

And who do we know who is called the moon? Hmm…I wonder…?

Hi, I’ve been reading your Dany and Jon asks and I am really curious why you think the political!jon/ucl theory goes against the themes of the books? Thanks!

“It was the cold,” Gared said with iron certainty. “I saw men freeze last winter, and the one before, when I was half a boy. Everyone talks about snows forty foot deep, and how the ice wind comes howling out of the north, but the real enemy is the cold.”

- Prologue, AGoT

The prologue’s there to frame the conflict of the entire series, and it’s outright stated that the cold is the enemy. (And at the end of the book, Dany proclaims that the fire is hers. Bookends.) The ultimate antagonist in this series is an inhuman, anti-human force against which all humanity should unite. 

The idea that people should work together to face threats greater than themselves recurs across the series. Whether it’s Ned telling Arya that she and Sansa will need each other, Catelyn imploring the Baratheon brothers to work together, or Jon and Stannis making common cause at the Wall itself, the idea’s there. The White Walkers are a problem bigger than anyone, and people should work together. The idea that at the business end of the series one of the protagonists will callously manipulate another protagonist into helping sort out the final showdown is just bizarre to me. Especially when the other option is one protagonist convincing another protagonist to lend a hand and a few dragons, nothing but good faith between them. Even the show has started to bear in this direction from time to time.

I think this theory is also pretty OOC for even the show versions of Jon and Dany. The show’s got its issues with showing us one thing and telling us another, but that theory pretty well denies that Dany could ever want to save the world because the world’s worth saving, and ignores Jon’s distress over deceiving Ygritte.

Given the options between “offscreen, Jon decided to give up on a good faith alliance with Daenerys and instead seduce her into offering her assistance,” and “the Jon/Dany romance writing did not come off altogether as convincing as intended,” I know which I find more plausible.

Except canonically there's no love between Jon & sansa,not even platonic because they distant siblings practically estranged with really nothing in common.And even in the context of the terrible adaptation that is GoT,Jon is basically forced to fill in the shoes of Ned & Robb as the head because he's the eldest member of the Starks alive after their deaths,hence why the show compares and parallels Jon to Ned,trying to make him into his clone only to fail miserably by making Jon worse.Yet in GoT,Jon's concern and care for sansa (despite dumb & dumber giving sansa Jeyne's trauma for "character development") is not returned and it's one-sided on sansa's side since sansa shows and proves time and time again she never truly loved Jon or cared about him or desired to protect him or even actually try to as she moving in a way that is the exact opposite with all of her other siblings too.Literally everything sansa has say and done in the show and the books has only really been selfish in service of serving her own interests with no regard for her so called family/dear loved ones.Sansa getting so many of the Northmen killed in the battle of the bastards,especially using Rickon to trick,manipulate,gaslight and guilt-trip Jon to fight in it (which is the begining of sansa's pattern of constantly risking his life and the rest of the Starklings until the very end of the finale of the show,even plotting to kill their own little sister Arya who even the actor of bran and the show writers favored towards the actress of sansa revealed and confirmed the suspicion) to only for her to be the reason their own innocent youngest brother Rickon to die without even showing any guilt, remorse,or mourning him at least just to get credit (like the actress confirmed) for "gEtTiNg BaCk ThE nOrTh WhIcH iS tHeIrS" when many if not most fighting in the battle of bastards against Ramsey Bolton died.Not to mention if sansa was truly "tHe SmArTeSt PeRsOn EvEr" (according to Arya being used as dumb & dumber's spokepiece) and really somehow magically knew about what would happen to King's Landing,then why would she consistently practically constantly provoke the major threat who was apparently volatile and a ticking time bomb?Why would she risk getting kill herself,her family,and everyone in the North killed with her unprovoked hostile behavior immediately upon their initial meeting when their only saving grace has finally arrived to Winterfell to save them from the imminent apocalyptic threat of the white walkers drawing closer to her so called people just because it's the "Mad King's daughter"?Why would she risk getting her precious beloved Winterfell that is their home and the rest of the North obliterated to ashes,acting as if their ally deserved to be judged for the sins of her father before what the d&d forced Dany to burn the people living in the city in the capital of Westeros and the castle her own ancestors built she was working towards her whole life to reclaim,hence destroying the Targaryen legacy?Why would oH sO sMaRtEsT oF aLl sansa & bran the all seeing three eyed raven mentored and trained by powerful Targaryen-Blackwood skinchanger Bloodraven not try anything to prevent the loss of innocent lives especially children in King's Landing if they didn't exactly know what would happened but actually anticipated it instead?It all just goes to show even more that sansa literally didn't care about anyone not even her family but ruling over an independent North struggling to survive that none of the Northerners were prepare to take care of not even the starks let alone the most sheltered pampered spoiled useless ungrateful incompetent dumbass of a brat of them from:

•sansa easily breaking an oath before the old gods of her late father's faith to conspire against the so called devil incarnate with her hand to replace the woman with a man,risking her so called beloved brother life and the rest of their family's lives and the Northerners' lives yet again for the umpteenth time

•sansa begging her little brother bran to give the North independence as a kingdom and begged him to became queen in the North even while bran is king of Westeros,proving sansa only cared about herself getting a crown,not who sat on the throne considering sansa believes ruling is a reward and right and leisure she's entitled to and deserves,not a duty and a job with great responsibility it actually (especially according to Dany's chapters and quotes in the books),(because of her ancestors' genocide of the indigenous native people of the North,the Children of the Forest,her ancestors forced their daughters to marry and mate with for their warging and skinchanging abilities practically to steal it while the First Men also warged war against many houses in the north,wiping out some to become the notorious kings of winter as they kicked out the Blackwoods out of their wolfwoods to take for themselves;("Owning" and ruling land you not only blatantly stole (because it was taken not given or surrendered or even won) but imposed your religion and culture via colonization (unlike the Targaryens who adapted the Westerosi faith of the Seven and assimilated into Westerosi culture instead and didn't enforce theirs on others) upon the rest for thousands of years is not the impressive flex stark stans believe it is using for imaginary drags (as if the Targaryens weren't naturally one of the dragonlord dragonrider noble families of Old Valyria despite being a lesser house who ultimately is the only house to survive because Aenys was likely the only one wise enough to listen to his Daenys the. Dreamer and at least prepare to move his family away because of her dream of the empire's doom if if they didn't know at the time it was a prophetic vision) due to her nonexistent suffering stolen from her childhood friend poor Jeyne🤮

But after all,GRRM did say he created sansa because the Starks all got along too well,which isn't realistic in familial relationships and dynamics,so sansa's is literally the bad egg of the family sowing discord among them.NTM sansa is partially to blame for Ned's death btw especially since her stans love to blame Dany,who's still a child only two years older than sansa,for everything and anything under the sun out of her control when Dany has actually shown/proven she actually cares about other people more than herself and at least,Dany actually tries to help people no matter what even at her own cost and risk since she's truly the most selfless,altruistic,benevolent,kind,noble,honorable,etc.Dany's borderline righteous in spite of her understable flaws (which arent even toxic but relatable and compelling) and her faults (which are literally as a result of Dany actually being way too nice and lenient and for giving),which no one could've anticipated coming miles away and prevented anyway.

I made a post about Jon Snow being a Corn King figure here. So, this post references that one heavily. 

The Corn King is a term for a male fertility god/sacred king who dies or is sacrificed for the good of his people to bring fertility or spring back into the land. The Corn King is born at Yule, matures through the year, and dies at harvest, only to be reborn the next year. At Beltane, the Corn King weds an Earth Goddess (an aspect of the Earth Mother). The consummation of their wedding restores fertility to the land.

The king was the incarnation of a dying and reviving god, a solar deity who underwent a mystic marriage to a goddess of the Earth. He died at the harvest and was reincarnated in the spring. Frazer claims that this legend of rebirth is central to almost all of the world’s mythologies. FROM WIKI

I just wanted to make a ship-specific post as we know that Jon and Dany have both been set up as our savior figures to stop the Long Night, restore balance, and bring Spring back again. And, their convergence has been stated has being the point of the series. Does Dany fit the figure of an Earth Goddess, an Earth Mother? The Mother part is easy as Dany is connected to motherhood from the first book and first season onwards. Mhysa means “mother.” She’s the Mother of Dragons.  

Frazer, in The Golden Bough, uses Diana, the Roman moon and nature goddess (who has also been called Light Bringer interestingly) and her symbolic marriage to the priest-king Nemi “the two figuring as King and Queen of the Wood in a solemn marriage which was intended to make the earth gay with the blossoms of spring and the fruits of autumn.” Egyptian kings married their sisters and they impersonated Osiris and Isis in the rites of spring. 

In Barbara L Talcroft’s The Death of the Corn King which is built on Frazer’s The Golden Bough, she says:

Irish texts speak of the banais rigi or “the wedding of the kingship” which probably meant that the queen, who also impersonated the earth goddess,  chose a mate from among her war band and later to become the king-sacrifice. Mac Cana relates the story from Irish literature of King Eochaidh whose kingship was not recognized because his goddess-wife, Edain, had been taken away from him. Mac Cana concludes, “In the context of Irish tradition, the meaning of this is clear. Eochaidh had become king, but his kingship could be validated only by his union with the goddess of sovereignty, in this case, Edain. This union of king and goddess was at one time ritually enacted at the Feast of Tara.”

So, this part is interesting because it’s the Goddess of Sovereignty that gives the king legitimacy. Without her, his kingship is not validated. 

The ceremony so essential to the legitimacy of the king took place at his inauguration and had two parts- some form of drink offered by the goddess-bride to the king and the sexual union

Have I just talked myself into accepting Bran’s legitimacy VO while Jon/Dany are having sex? Heh.

The intricate relationship between king and Goddess, at least in the Celtic tradition, was undoubtedly caused by the conflicting emphases of the patriarchal sun religion represented by the king, and of the matriarchal earth and moon religion represented by the Goddess.

Moon symbology has figured in Daenerys’ story. ‘Moon of my life’ which Drogo called her is only one such example. The dragon creation myth is another. There are a lot of moon references in Dany’s chapters. But, there are even more moon references in Jon’s chapters. The Azor Ahai myth and R’hollorism is filled with sun, moon, and star references too. R’hllor specifically is connected to sun and stars.

“He told me the moon was an egg, Khaleesi, the Lysene girl said. Once there were two moons in the sky, but one wandered too close to the sun and cracked from the heat. A thousand thousand dragons poured forth, and drank the fire of the sun. That is why dragons breathe flame. One day the other moon will kiss the sun too, and then it will crack and the dragons will return.”

Melisandre says to Jon in ADWD  "You should look behind you, Lord Snow. The moon has kissed you and etched your shadow upon the ice twenty feet tall.“

R’hllor,” sang Melisandre, her arms upraised against the falling snow, “you are the light in our eyes, the fire in our hearts, the heat in our loins. Yours is the sun that warms our days, yours the stars that guard us in the dark of night.”

I was researching the Corn King mythology and I found the references to the Earth/Moon (often used interchangeably) Goddess and the role she plays in the Corn King story. It’s not just his death and rebirth that brings fertility to the land, but it’s the consummation of their marriage. I’m not taking this literally for Jon and Dany, but rather, that their partnership will be what helps saves the world and brings Spring again. 

@treehillraven23-blog

How delusional,dumb,and ignorant do you have to be believe this bs as a cop out to dismiss and downplay Daenerys' lack of privilege and family for most of her life,ntm victim blame her because your callous ass lacks empathy for the character☠️Daenerys literally lost everything (most of her family,her home,and what her family had that would've been hers) before she was even born as her mother died shortly after giving her (like Jon's mother,Lyanna),literally started life with nothing (all she would've had if Rhaegar didn't die,if Elia,Rhaenys,and Aegon,literally had nothing even begin with but her name and blood.So congratulations on implying you agree with these facts🤡🙃

And just because she never had the opportunity to know Rhaegar, the privilege to know all her siblings, since that was one of many she was robbed of even birth,it still count as loss especially when it's important full blood related members of the family such as her mother,Rhaella,who suffered all her life being abused by Mad King Aerys even before their father forced the sister and brother to marry for the Prince Who Was Promised prophecy.Viserys was almost just as cruel and abusive to Dany as Aerys was to Rhaella throughout their lives as just a brother,then her husband and king.I bet you would be agreeing with me if it was about Jon regarding Lyanna because it's always double standards with antis,since y'all are so full of shit.

Jon stans (but can't expect you to know since all nonas crackshippers are glorified self-insert sardine stans who projecting to fantasize about fucking Kit Harrington😂) of all people should know damn well how deep the void of a mother is (as Jon has serious mother issues thanks to being mistreated and looked down on due to his bastardy and Catelyn's abuse towards him as supposedly the product of Ned's infidelity),because Lyanna is more important to the narrative for some of the main characters,Jon and Arya,like Rhaegar is to Dany while Rhaella is not thanks to GRRM's intention with his writing in the books.Not to mention Dany looks up to Rhaegar and longs to know him even in death,which is why she's eager to learn about Rhaegar.So your reasoning is invalid regardless,and your first part about Viserys is downright blatant nonsensical lies🤦🏾‍♀️🤨

Daenerys did not "hElP" Khal Drogo to kill Viserys🙄There was literally nothing Dany could do to protect and save Viserys even though she told the Dothraki who witnessed Viserys assault her not to harm Viserys,and even tried to warn him against his misbehavior by giving him a taste for what's was to come if you continued,hence why Viserys was forced to walk on foot instead of riding on horseback as punishment for assaulting Dany.Not to mention GoT never shows Dany actually loved Viserys,still loves him,even misses him (since she remembers how well he treated her back then when he still loved her),but she would and could no longer help him (as she lacked agency and power even as Khal Drogo's wife as a girl who is actually just his child bride sex slave) after warning him about how his violent disrespect to the Dothraki and herself pregnant with Khal Drogo's son as his wife since Viserys forced her to marry the much bigger,much older,much scarier Khal Drogo so young as she was literally just a girl,just a child.

Let's just conveniently ignore book canon of how Viserys changed when he had sell the only thing left of their mother,Rhaella's crown,for food to survive as Dany was severely sick from starvation.Viserys snapped in that moment because he was very close to Rhaella,so he began being cruel,too harsh,verbally,emotionally,and physically abusive to Dany and had been terrorizing her ever since.Viserys would literally beat when "she woke the dragon",and it's obvious when he was even terrorizing her in her dragon dream in the books with the bruises on her naked body and her apparent fear,which is why the dream is symbolic of Dany being scared to wake her dragon.Dany's fear and her body language like she's trying to hide or escape from Viserys is also proof of this besides the memory pre-aSoIaF in one of her chapters Viserys beat Dany so hard all just because Dany spilled,clocked Viserys,and called out his double standards towards her concerning how she should've been born earlier.

As if it's somehow Dany's fault the Targaryens "fell from grace" due to Robert's Rebellion when she wasn't even born yet and just a baby when the Targaryen dynasty ended😭Viserys really had the audacity to shift the blame from the adults onto Dany and actually said if she would've been born earlier,Rhaegar would've had a much better option to marry instead,so Rhaegar would've have been so weak to be so enamored and lovesick with Lyanna he practically threw everything away to elope with her.That memory is manifested into a dragon dream as likely a trauma response similar to nightmares and PTSD of abuse victims.Since Dany was scared of him for years (which is a common response of abuse victims towards their abuser) as she reveals in her POV chapters Viserys hurt her,it can be inferred Viserys actually acted upon his threat towards Dany and the events of that dragon dream really happened before.

Let's just conveniently ignore Viserys consistently insulting and offending the Dothraki with his superiority complex,lashing out at a pregnant Dany and being violent towards her,provoking Khal Drogo by threatening to harm his wife and unborn child.Khal Drogo was literally protecting her from Viserys who posed a threat as he'd shown them all what he was capable with all his unprovoked,unwarranted hostility towards his own full blood related sister,his only family left.Not to mention in the books,Viserys planned to rape Dany before she married Khal Drogo and tried to enter her room at night,but Illyrio foresaw this and had guards stationed outside her door.Viserys felt entitled to Dany's maidenhead (virginity) which he perceived to be belong to him due to his Valyrian blood purity and supremacy and perceiving her as his property,because he believed Dany was supposed to be his bride and give him heirs as his only sister and other full blood Targaryen besides himself.

Oh the irony of Viserys' possessiveness of Dany when he sold his own sister,his only family to Khal Drogo in exchange for an army to take back his birthright,the Iron Throne.Tell me without telling me you never really read the books or even watched the show,most likely skipped Dany's chapters and scenes as antis tend to do,because y'all lack basic reading comprehension skills and are just too threatened by a character as iconic,compelling,great,and complex as Dany🤡

Even in the context of GoT,Viserys was still a cruel,abusive brother to Dany.Literally molested her,literally said he'd let all the Khal Drogo's men and their horses fuck her if that's what it would take to reclaim the Iron Throne,calls her degrading and derogatory slurs rooted in his racism and Valyrian blood supremacy such "Dothraki whore,Horse's slut" despite forcing her to marry the Khal for his own ends for the crown;Not to mention let's just conveniently forget Viserys really threatened to cut out Dany's unborn child when she was pregnant.After everything Viserys did to his own sister,even planned and tried to do to her,Viserys reaped what he sowed and honestly deserved what he got although I do have sympathy and pity for him considering how much his life changed for the worse due to Rhaegar's death and Robert Baratheon usurping.

But Viserys was wrong in punishing Dany for Rhaella's death,blaming and never forgiving her for Rhaella dying from childbirth.It's not her fault as she was literally just a baby fresh out of the womb.So it's valid and true Daenerys lost two brothers including her mother who GRRM rarely mentioned compared to Rhaegar and Aerys + GoT never even cared about to acknowledge Rhaella's existence considering it didn't suit their skewed narrative (but GRRM only used as a writing device often in fiction for characterization and character development to motivate Dany to become a true monarch who prioritizes her duty to the people over the self and devotes her life to protect and care for her people like a mother as the Mhysa/Mother of Dragons,the mother she never while being in the process of fulfilling the void of 'family','home',and "the childhood she had never known" by giving her people that symbolized by protection,security,and safety,because she can't bring back the dead or go back in time to save her family, and she can't even obtain the house with the red door,the lemon tree,and "the childhood she had never known" ) and great-great grand uncle Maester Aemon,who the GRRM didn't even have her meet unlike the likes of Jon who grew up with a father and siblings in a castle.

They’re both gone now. 

Kit Harington learning about the shipping culture in the fandom 

In conclusion: He didn’t even know jonsa existed, and is disgusted by the thought of jonsa. He doesn’t see jon with anyone else but daenerys. and thinks jonerys is brilliant and agrees that jon and daenerys are the song of ice and fire.  💋

I mean, asearchoficeandfire.com is pretty easy to use, right?

they way any quote is always the subversion for Sansa and the destruction for Dany 💀 they are living in their little bubble and hating and hating and hating and it still won’t make Jon fall in love with Sansa instead of Daenerys

POL JON RIDDLES

HELP ME OUT GUYS

Riddle #1: IT'S GREED AND TYRANNY WHEN DANY WANTS TO TAKE BACK HER FAMILY'S DYNASTY but it's righteous and right and empowering when the Starks (Sansa) want to take back the North. THE TARGARYENS ARE THE REAL COLONIZERS NO DOUBLE STANDARDS HERE WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT.

Riddle #2: Dany's love is cheap compared to her greed for the Iron Throne!!!11

...So why does Jon need to sexually use, abuse, manipulate, and fake his love for the power crazed Dany ala Pol!Jon to steal her armies and dragons if her worthless love is so cheap then...? It's not like sex is going to help out Jon's lacking martial forces much or add sense to the non-sensical Pol!Jon. Or what, does that not fulfill the Jonsa teen scene dreams of sweet sweet betrayal for thy true love Sansa?

Riddle #3:

"It's preposterous to think Jon, who has always tried to do the right thing, would betray(or even kill) his aunt just for shits and giggles."

So what is Jon, Jonsas? An uber asshole who is Sansa's personal garbage disposal? And will callously abuse, use, and manipulate a rape victim? Or does he have a conscience? Because yeah, I think the the two are mutually exclusive here. How does a decent person with a conscience (who Jon is supposed to be) do this to... anyone? Why would Jon do this to Dany? What has Dany done to warrant this? Conquer? Robb Stark, Jon's brother and best friend. Stannis Baratheon, the claimant Jon supported in ADWD. The Young Dragon, Jon's idol. How dare Dany want to take back her family's dynasty! Just like the Starks!! All the Northern houses love the Starks and want them back! (Except the ones who don't) The Skagosi too!! (Except they keep rebelling when the Starks try to force them to submit...) But seriously, since when does Jon hate Targaryen conquests? Or... Targaryens? But I digress, let's look at Pol!Jon. In contrast, Pol!Jon hates the young conquerer Dany! How dare Dany conquest!! Pol!Jon doesn't idolize the Dorne-invading dragon-riding Young Dragon!! Eww!!! But here's the thing: nothing about Pol!Jon makes Jon the hero as this particular Jonsa likes to argue. Everything makes him the asshole -- from every angle. Jon can't be a hero performing 100% villainous, unnecessary, and stupid stupid actions all so he can dispose of one girl (Dany) so he can go ahead and marry another girl (Sansa) who looked down on him in childhood for wholly classist reasons. (No no, no misogyny here!) Everything Jon does in this scenario justifies Dany (or Dany's supporters) going to war against him -- and the North -- because it's treason. How can Jon realistically get away with that. How would GRRM let Jon realistically get away with that. For Jonsa?

It doesn't matter how much of an asshole you are dying for Dany to be, it won't make Pol!Jon any less of an asshole in his characterization or actions toward Dany.

And if Pol!Jon hates Dany so much that he's willing to abuse, use, and callously exploit a rape victim when her love for him is apparently so "cheap" (because apparently, these are your versions of them), it seems like he is doing extreme stuff for shits and giggles -- and to make the situation far far worse (handing Dany a reason to go to war against the North, intentions to start another civil war despite multiple wars going on and the North's lacking resources, making an enemy of a powerful queen and during a time of probable desperation...).

I'd call that psychotic. (On another note, I'm a Jon stan but... uh, there are times in ASOIAF when Jon does not do quite the right thing...)

I know Aegony has been theorized as endgame ship for a reason but imo those are the same people who have grossly mischaracterized something about Dany and Jon.

The irony.

They are the same ones who have denied Dark Dany and insist how her greed for the IT was actually just her doing her duty as the last Targ and that Sansa was the power hungry one actually.

Hilariously, this happened in the same show Jonsa never became close to canon (not matter what Jonsa conspiracy theories say), the same show in which Sansa kept risking the life of her "beloved" brother Jon and betrayed him multiple times (funny, Dany never did that...), and the same show of which GRRM has repeatedly said his ending would be different. Oops :) And Jonsas wonder why the fandom has a problem with them.