I Don't Understand Why People Say Yu Ziyuan Is The Better Parent While Jiang Fengmian Is Worse, Whereas

I don't understand why people say Yu Ziyuan is the better parent while Jiang Fengmian is worse, whereas in the entire MDZS, Jiang Fengmian is the only one who tried to teach Jiang Cheng right from wrong (read how JFM tried to teach JC how to control his temper and his words after Xuanwu Cave).

But what about Yu Ziyuan? Aside from instilling the idea "Your Father doesnt like you" and mentally belittling her own children, what did she ever teach to Jiang Cheng? To Jiang Yanli?

She taught JC how to keep feeling unreasonable jealousy and envy of others. JFM never praised JC, but has YZY ever acknowledge JC either? What she did was to tell him that he is not good enough. Never good enough. What she did was keep comparing him to other people's children without ever acknowledging her own son's capability.

She taught JYL that the act of affection between people is servitude. Her, giving her Xiongdi a peeled lotus seed as an affectionate gesture between loved ones, was implied as humbling herself, as she was told "You are not a servant!"

Look at what good teaching this woman gave to her children.

And people say she is the better parent??

Perhaps they ought not to have eaten the dragon. There had been people objecting to it at the time. Surely such meat was poisonous. Perhaps it was even an affront, an insult to some intangible order of nature they ought to honour.

But the city was starving, the siege had gone on too long, and the king's troops were still a week's march away. The scorched earth would be fertile again in time, but right now it was barren. Right now there were mouths to feed. So they changed their crossbows for butcher knives and got to work.

None of the royal commanders asked any questions that could not be answered. After all, their aid had come shamefully late. The dragon's horned skull made a noble gift, a fitting tribute from a triumphant city to its humbled king. Who would have thought to question them?

And none of the townsfolk spoke up, when the first golden-eyed babes were born. Children who grew up barefoot and fearless, clambering over the city's patched and rebuilt roofs like they had no notion of falling, with a strange glitter to their skin when the sunlight hit it just so. No one breathed a word about dragons.

Because soon enough there were deft, young hands taking loaves straight out of the oven, heedlessly lifting iron from the forge, plunging into boiling laundry water. And some of them more wondrous still, wild, warm-skinned youths, with inexplicable knowledge and peculiar remedies.

A blessing, their families said proudly. A blessing after so much hardship. Which it was, in its way. This city would never fear dragon fire again.

Lan Qiren when he’s attempting (and failing) to bully Wei Wuxian into humility:

As Wei Wuxian continued to answer Lan Qiren’s questions seamlessly, the others in the room were kept at the edge of their seats… However, Lan Qiren said, “As a disciple of the Jiang Clan of Yunmeng, you should already know these like the back of your hand. Even if you have answered everything correctly, there’s nothing to be proud about…”

 –Chapt. 13: The Flirtatious and the Refined Part 3: The First Meeting Between Fellow Schoolmates, taming wangxian

vs. Lan Qiren when he’s using his nephew to brag (against the rules) humble Wei Wuxian because he thinks that the disciple cannot answer his question:

Everyone let out a long breath, and secretly thanked the heavens that the old man had picked Lan Wangji… Lan Qiren nodded in satisfaction and said, “Perfect.” He paused for a moment, then continued, “Regardless of cultivation or conduct, it is essential to have a stable foundation. If one becomes conceited or delinquent just because they killed a few lower level mountain spirits or ghosts and earned themselves an undeserved reputation, they will have to eat humble pie sooner or later.”

–Chapt. 14: The Flirtatious and the Refined Part 4: I Hate You, taming wangxian

The Burden of Debt For Wei Wuxian: Part One

The burden of debt was consistently placed upon Wei Wuxian and it very much was do to the classist expectations that Jiang Fengmian held regarding his former servant as well as Madam Yu's derision of servant class.

Yes, Wei Wuxian has an ideal social position as a favored servant and "spoiled" in the sense that the position came with many benefits reserved for what the real world equivalent of scholars would have received moving through the political courts of China, but as the novel world is anachronistically strewn with various points of historical and loose context, it carries over these aspects into fictional sects that rely on familial blood associations for inheritance of them. What had once been typical xianxia sect dynamics were inverted to resemble the political systems of the mundane human world, and is also brought up within the novel itself as having significantly changed the cultivation world's own dynamics.

Wei Wuxian is in full awareness as to what his position is to the Jiangs and as such is able to hold secure in this and what he means for the family. He is brought in by Jiang Fengmian with the expectation to be a servant for his son and a right hand, not a brother. This is noteworthy to point out as Jiang Fengmian does not hold the same expectations or protections he reserved to Jiang Cheng. As a sect and clan heir Jiang Cheng should not be placed in extreme danger as what was argued for the Indoctrination. He is the only male blood heir for the clan, Wei Wuxian, being neither family nor adopted, had the expectations of representing their clan as a servant would and the expendability if it came to such. Madam Yu on the other hand irrationally disliked Wei Wuxian dueto his mother and saw this placement of expectations as a derision, of her blood, and the lack of respect of her place as the other Jiang leader and mother of the future of Yunmeng because he was ambivalent to her nature and self.

Wei Wuxian knew what he was to Jiang Fengmian and willingly would serve the lord that had afforded luxuries he would have no access to otherwise if he had not been found by him and by that extension would serve his son that would take his place in debt for this. While proud of his own abilities and intelligence he uses those in service to the Jiang principle and reputation that he was raised to follow. Filial Piety does not just extend to birth parents but to the community that has actively raised and nurtured you. To do less is shameful, a lack of character and respect to the fundamentals you learn to follow.

Madam Yu saw him as a servant more favored than her own son, Jiang Cheng saw this relationship much the same way. Jiang Fengmian did not respect the morals of Madam Yu that Jiang Cheng also embodied but he could easily continue to believe that due to the debt of having been raised under the Jiangs meant that Wei Wuxian could not and would not usurp his claims. These two consistently bring up that while of a favorable position, Wei Wuxian to the family, is still a servant and use that to condemn both Wei Wuxian and Jiang Fengmian's characters as well as using this as a boon that despite Wei Wuxian's talents he will and never can be more to overshadow their places of higher standings.

Even after the Jiang parents own deaths, Wei Wuxian places his position as servant that owes a debt to the Jiang leadership to keep Jiang Cheng safe as they had ordered, not as a brother. Due to his lack of knowing that Jiang Cheng had tried to impulsively protect him and thus Jiang Cheng losing his cultivated core, he sees this as a lacking on his own part for not doing as ordered by his leaders and the threat of the collapse of the sect that fostered his talents he was to use for. He rationalizes the transfer of his core to Jiang Cheng is giving back what was already made by the Jiangs teachings and thus already something that is by default Jiang Cheng's. He is giving back what was given by Jiang Fengmian after being picked up off the streets as debts are meant to be repaid in full return for what had been taken.

This was already a cycle as Jiang Fengmian had looked for an orphaned Wei Wuxian due to the debt he had owed Cangse Sanren for saving his life in their youth and further debt upon Wei Wuxian to now serve the clan for that chance of life repaid again. Similarly, Wen Ning, much like what Cangse Sanren did, saved both Wei Wuxian as well as Jiang Cheng by harboring them as well as Wen Qing. Due to their association with Wen Ruohan and the other Wen aggressors, Wei Wuxian makes his own stipulations of debt by asking Wen Qing, an esteemed doctor of the cultivation world to perform the transfer. Her clan had helped destroy the Jiang's and in that sense she was given an equal opportunity of survival back to Jiang Cheng upon this agreement that Wei Wuxian would later assist her if called upon.

Wen Qing secures a call of safety for herself and Wen Ning for the shelter they provided Wei Wuxian and Jiang Cheng, as well as the personal debt expected repayment from Wei Wuxian's begging for her to perform a transfer of power for an enemy of her people she is supposed to be politically loyal to and in service to. Due to the surgeries success, he metaphorically has given this protection and talent fostered by the Jiang's back to who he sees it as having been provided. The physical debt of life being saved has been repaid with this action by Wei Wuxian to Jiang Cheng in exchange for that debt to be expected repayment to the Wen siblings eventually for their secrecy and harboring the two.

Wei Wuxian himself due to his own personal moral and loyalty still does stay by Jiang Cheng's side as the expected right hand man he was told to be by Jiang Fengmian, even with the loss of his core, his talents for creating Gui Dao are a draw for cultivators to be drawn to the newly established strength that Yunmeng Jiang held. In essence of strength and reputation Jiang Cheng was politically untouchable due to his tie with Wei Wuxian as his right hand servant that followed his command. Despite his strengths not being due to a core any longer he was still able to entice the world to make Jiang Cheng and his home seat of loyalty prosper with raw intelligence and being able to harness unorthodox methods to create something new that was not understood within the expected framework of the Jianghu. Despite Wei Wuxian's own complacency with staying an advisor to Jiang Cheng alone, Jiang Cheng's jealousy from their youth still festers.

Jiang Cheng refusal to see any of Wei Wuxian's support without the debt he now associates with Wei Wuxian having been the cause of his parents deaths, despite his own self admittance during the event he knew he had no reason to place that guilt in Wei Wuxian. This debt and jealousy is now further twisted that Wei Wuxian further owes him for something that was not his to claim on the death of Jiang Fengmian. This placement of repayment for deaths is insatiable and stays as such the more Jiang Cheng's jealousy and hate for what Wei Wuxian as a person grows. The more Jiang Cheng hates, the more trouble Wei Wuxian seems to cause for him and the more Jiang Cheng in claim needs to clean up. The debt grows and Wei Wuxian is indeed as ungrateful as Madam Yu had always said. This fracture in morality continues as they become adults set upon their own moral ideals that clash as well as the expectations of what Jiang Cheng sees as Wei Wuxian's debts owed to "Yunmeng Jiang" for all that they had done for him, what Wei Wuxian wants or does is lesser in the face of what Jiang Cheng sees as owed to him first. This claim of debt is ever growing along with Jiang Cheng's hate for Wei Wuxian himself now.

Eventually Wen Qing is in need of Wei Wuxian's help as well to save Wen Ning, and not only due to what Wei Wuxian sees as being owed for her help previously to save Jiang Cheng, but also because he knows Wen Ning as a kind good person that does not deserve to be treated like a slave prisoner based on cruelty alone. He argues this with the cultivators present that they are being cruel and callous towards those with tenuous ties to Wens that were already killed based on their own cruelty and want of power only. He notes the hypocrisy as well to claim all Wens deserve the treatment despite those of the same name previously sitting amongst them not being a part of this encampment. He states that it is because of Wen Ning that Yunmeng Jiang stands as well due to his kindness that would have gotten him killed if found out.

Out of desperation and disgust he kills the Jin guards that refuse to admit to their own inhumanities while claiming righteousness to save Wen Ning as well as the Wens willing to follow him for protection and safety. He leaves the others to do as they want that stay.

While Mianmian and Lan Wangji try to attest that Wei Wuxian did what he did to save others as he was always placed the safety of others regardless of life circumstance above political gain, they are talked down as it being irrelevant due to prejudice associated with the Wen name surviving and further rumors being told loudly now that Wei Wuxian's reputation is stained and Jiang Cheng's tenuous like of him can be exploited. The text itself delves into Jiang Cheng's own thoughts that he is not at any point worried about what could become of Wei Wuxian or the harm potentially waiting now for Wei Wuxian, but of the trouble that Wei Wuxian and work he has made for Jiang Cheng. Jiang Cheng resents that Wei Wuxian can't stay in line and voiceless in his morals and can't stay down as Jiang Cheng told him to, complicit as long as their positions stay the same and unthreatened. Jiang Cheng the master and Wei Wuxian the dog that acts untrained.

hi, ive been reading your jc takes and i found i p much agree with everything, but i wanted to ask, how do you square the moment jc sacrifices himself for wwx by distracting the wen guards with... everything else he does

also the moment he brings wwx his flute, if he only feels hate for wwx why would he do that?

As I’ve said, Jiang Cheng and Wei Wuxian were friends, and I 100% believe that the fall of Lotus Pier and the emergence of the Sunshot Campaign is why they remained friends for so long, especially in the direct aftermath of the fall which saw Jiang Cheng and Wei Wuxian having to rely solely on each other for survival. So I believe without a doubt that Jiang Cheng distracted the Wen cultivators to protect Wei Wuxian… without considering the full consequences of getting caught. I believe that had Jiang Cheng considered losing his golden core a real possibility, he would not have used himself as a distraction. But he did use himself as a distraction, and he did lose his golden core, and despite the fact that Wei Wuxian rectified that with his “miracle connections,” he spends close to twenty years taking that out on Wei Wuxian, lest we forget that upon waking after being rescued, he tries to go for Wei Wuxian’s throat again.

As for Jiang Cheng returning Chenqing, it’s a symbol of the one moment of character growth he has in the entire novel: fully letting Wei Wuxian go. Jiang Cheng held onto that flute because he just “knew” that if Wei Wuxian came back to life, he would immediately search for his most fearsome weapon, because Wei Wuxian “must” be a showoff obsessed with power (because Jiang Cheng would be, in his position). He was keeping it in hopes of successfully luring Wei Wuxian in for a slaughter. But what he failed to realize before and finally understood at the end was that Wei Wuxian never was and never would be like Jiang Cheng. He did not seek power or fame or vengeance over perma-grudges; he didn’t need Chenqing. So Jiang Cheng gives it back, thereby thematically releasing his last standing preconceived notions on his former shixiong and his need to hunt him down in a one-sided competition. (Now if only he’d done the same for Wen Ning… 😒)

Not gonna lie, I first read this poll title as “Send Prey Somewhere” which influenced my choice a bit.