It Just Be Like That I Guess

it just be like that I guess

You won! The enemy Red Dragon dropped something! (Gained 20,000 EXP and Falin's Body)

Okay so I was triggered by the "what kind of american are you' scene in Civil War so badly, I had to leave. So, my mom has now decided I am too much of a baby to watch serious historical documentaries???

Like, that could have literally happened to me, but I need to stay away from uncomfortable facts because irl violent racism is something I have to worry about every time I leave the house- wow, I'm such a sissy little bitch, I guess.

I've been in the FFXIV fandom space since ARR and I just notice there is a large majority of people who either are straight up racist and don't care (which is a thing we have to deal with everywhere, so yes, that sucks a lot) or just happily talk over others in the spirit of 'education'.

I'm not here with a bard hat on crowing about how wrong you are, but these types of discussion need to be brought up and I wasn't approaching this in a combative manner, but I AM annoyed my opinion/stance on the costumes is being called "the reason why nobody wants to talk about racism", that is just silly.

I've participated in activism for a LONG TIME and the newer generations popping up on the scene seem to have the same kind of weirdly shortsighted approach to 'education'. There's nothing inherently wrong with the intention, but it seems to be a strange stepping off point to take- like when I see a lot of the LoZ fans trying to defend the Gerudo when the Gerudo really cannot be taken seriously like that at all without actively participating in racist and orientalist apologism. It's just very... odd choice, given other options we could take in trying to address racism and stereotypes.

This is a great and valuable addition! But I'm afraid I'm being misunderstood. Let me clarify.

Most people in the fandom don't actually acknowledge that Japan has the history it does with how it looks at and represents the world. That's the context this is coming from. This also isn't a "Japan is a big bad evil" post but moreso "please look at the cultural context in which this media is created AND consumed".

To say "please be mindful where you step in an already racist setting" isn't really splitting hairs, to me. The reason I made this post is actually because of my Vietnamese friends. They've literally said these things. No one wants to speak up and get more hurt than they already are. In terms of what the "ao dai" actually is, I definitely am not arguing the context you've put them in. It's facts! To further your example, saris in South Asia now have blouses, but they didn't before the British Raj. The way we understand saris today is very different, and is certainly modified from the original because of imperialism reasons. It can't be and really isn't about "authenticity" because there's no such thing as purity in any form.

Naturally, in the modern context, there are so many styles of ao dai where they are adapted to more of a tunic style, and there are styles beyond that. This was just a post about the conflation of qipao versus ao dai by Western fans. I was informed that ao dai are MEANT to have flowing pants or a gown of some kind underneath, because the idea of the ao dai is for it to make people look tall. Like someone said in the tags, even the ffxiv team knows this, or they wouldn't have added "quan" to the game. I'm not seeing any Vietnamese fans disagreeing, but rather saying they experienced what my friends are feeling, too. That doesn't mean other fans can't disagree! I'm NOT East Asian, I'm South Asian. I just happen to be surrounded by East Asian (American) voices.

For more context, as an Indian, I love the dancer costumes-- they are so pretty, with beautiful embellishments, and obviously based on costumes that are meant to be costumes. They're very much based on theatrical orientalist stereotypes, so they simultaneously reinscribe the belly dancer image, which is then further fetishized by fans. Then there's the matter of choice: do I use them or not? Personally, yes, I do. Because regardless, I love them. But being aware helps me personally avoid getting into situations where it goes any further than a beautiful costume. (Playing out the fetishized image in roleplay, I mean. The actual dancing part in the costume, absolutely not without a similar reinscription/supporting stereotypes effect.)

Of course, this fan with Palestinian heritage has a specific experience they are speaking from. The same stereotypes affect them and their life and history in a different but similar way. It's helpful that they offered people other ethnic looks that are closer to what their culture looks like. Some people genuinely don't know and go along with the stereotypes unquestioningly. I hope people will try to avoid that, and the glamour references are useful for that reason. Obviously, their perspective is a little different than mine, but it deserves to be highlighted.

A similar example - maybe you were not one of the Koreans who felt very offended by the release of the traditional Japanese school uniforms, because yes. In their original historical context, they are just Japanese school clothes. Of course, the history of empire tied to them was upsetting to a lot of Korean fans whose family's traumas from that time were still being felt. So they asked people not to use them. My wife, who is Chinese (Taiwan, also affected by this history, whose grandmother still speaks Japanese) did not feel as strongly as some of the Korean fans did, because of the aforementioned context--they are school uniforms of their era from Japan. Of course they were used by the empire, but they were using it themselves, too.

It's truly not a black and white issue, and we obviously can't avoid stepping on everyone's toes. Authenticity is a version of purity, and it just doesn't truly exist. I want to give people a useful place to start thinking about their choices. A lot of people don't realize they participating in stereotypes, but by letting people know, they get more context. I should have perhaps said BE CAREFUL with how you mix and match culturally specific gear, because it's not like they don't influence each other at all! They often did and still do!

There are so many people (of all backgrounds) who don't realize that they're repeating stereotypes even when they look at the histories and cultural practices of different places they want to incorporate roleplay.

I don't think it's a lot to ask people to broaden their horizons. And I wouldn't condone the expectation of perfection from strangers online, either. This post came from a place of seeing racist behaviour associated with the gear choices actively happening over and over again. I don't want people to split hairs, as it's going to scare people and limit creativity. I didn't come away with "wow these people using gear WRONG is the root of evil racism". It is a symptom, yes. This was an imperfect post created out of pain, happening to me and others. This is one of those things where yes, you look at it and search for where the other factors, such as the history of the genre, etc, also influence what exists in the game.

There's no "main issue", but rather several issues stemming from several issues ad infinitum.

At this point, I think I'm just hurt that instead of asking for clarity, context, added nuance, etc, someone rushed to tell me why I'm wrong while also making various assumptions about my thinking. It's literally why no one wants to speak up and start these discussions. Like, yeah, the logic of the argument says those things, and it's valid to bring up. But, yeah. The way it was said really hurt my feelings.

when you tag me in posts you think i’d like this is what it looks like