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Zeus when Hera left him

The parallels between Hector and Patroclus, and between Achilles and Andromache, in the last books of the Iliad:

As I was reading through the Iliad, I was struck by how strongly Hector and Patroclus parallel each other in their last moments.

I'm not exactly making an argument that they parallel each other throughout the Iliad, or saying that Hector does not act like a foil for Achilles throughout the narrative too, but I did find it extremely interesting, especially in association with the parallels between Achilles and Andromache.

They are both first given a grave disadvantage by a god, Athena in Hector's case and Apollo in Patroclus'. Athena interferes with Hector by appearing as Deiphobus and then disappearing when he is in need of assistance. Apollo interferes with Patroclus by striking the breath out of him and knocking off all of his armor, so he stands on the battlefield defenseless.

They bear a similar reaction to the loss of their weapons. Both stand still in shock for a moment, and both of these phrases are at the beginning of a line and are immediately followed by a caesura: 16. 806- στῆ δὲ ταφών: ὄπιθεν δὲ μετάφρενον ὀξέϊ δουρὶ 'he stood dazed. But from behind on his back with a sharp spear...' and 22. 293- στῆ δὲ κατηφήσας, οὐδ᾽ ἄλλ᾽ ἔχε μείλινον ἔγχος. 'he stood mute in horror, as he did not have his ashen spear.'

There is a repeated structure of 'three times and on the fourth,' something changes.

16. 784-789: τρὶς μὲν ἔπειτ᾽ ἐπόρουσε θοῷ ἀτάλαντος Ἄρηϊ σμερδαλέα ἰάχων, τρὶς δ᾽ ἐννέα φῶτας ἔπεφνεν. ἀλλ᾽ ὅτε δὴ τὸ τέταρτον ἐπέσσυτο δαίμονι ἶσος, ἔνθ᾽ ἄρα τοι Πάτροκλε φάνη βιότοιο τελευτή: ἤντετο γάρ τοι Φοῖβος ἐνὶ κρατερῇ ὑσμίνῃ δεινός: Three times did he spring at them, equal to swift Ares, shouting terribly, and three times did he slay nine men. But when he charged the fourth time, like to a god, then, Patroclus, did the end of your life appear. For Phoebus, terrifying, met you in that fierce combat.   22. 165-6, 208-13: ὣς τὼ τρὶς Πριάμοιο πόλιν πέρι δινηθήτην καρπαλίμοισι πόδεσσι: θεοὶ δ᾽ ἐς πάντες ὁρῶντο: Thus three times did they circle around the city of Priam, with their swift feet, and all the gods were watching them. ἀλλ᾽ ὅτε δὴ τὸ τέταρτον ἐπὶ κρουνοὺς ἀφίκοντο, καὶ τότε δὴ χρύσεια πατὴρ ἐτίταινε τάλαντα, ἐν δ᾽ ἐτίθει δύο κῆρε τανηλεγέος θανάτοιο, τὴν μὲν Ἀχιλλῆος, τὴν δ᾽ Ἕκτορος ἱπποδάμοιο, ἕλκε δὲ μέσσα λαβών: ῥέπε δ᾽ Ἕκτορος αἴσιμον ἦμαρ, ᾤχετο δ᾽ εἰς Ἀΐδαο, λίπεν δέ ἑ Φοῖβος Ἀπόλλων. But when they arrived at the springs for the fourth time, then the father held out his golden scales, and placed on them two fates of woeful death, one for Achilles, the other for horse-taming Hector, and having seized the middle of these, he lifted them, and the destined day of Hector sank, and went to Hades, and Phoebus Apollo left him.  

4. The final pieces of dialogue between Patroclus and Hector and then Hector and Achilles follow a very similar formula: the winner lords over the loser, calling him νήπιε (16. 833 & 22. 333), and then the loser as they die, gives a prophecy concerning the winner’s death (16. 851-854 & 22. 359-360) which the winner doesn’t take well. This parallel also clearly functions as one between Hector and Achilles.

5. And what is perhaps the strangest parallel- their final death descriptions are exactly the same.

ὣς ἄρα μιν εἰπόντα τέλος θανάτοιο κάλυψε: ψυχὴ δ᾽ ἐκ ῥεθέων πταμένη Ἄϊδος δὲ βεβήκει ὃν πότμον γοόωσα λιποῦσ᾽ ἀνδροτῆτα καὶ ἥβην. 16. 855-7 & 22. 361-3

Achilles and Andromache have decidedly less parallels that can be clearly seen, but I think the fact they play the same role of 'the one left behind' is still deeply interesting.

They are both completely ignorant of the fate of their loved one, and did not even expect it to occur.

17.401- 407: οὐδ᾽ ἄρα πώ τι ᾔδεε Πάτροκλον τεθνηότα δῖος Ἀχιλλεύς: πολλὸν γὰρ ῥ᾽ ἀπάνευθε νεῶν μάρναντο θοάων τείχει ὕπο Τρώων: τό μιν οὔ ποτε ἔλπετο θυμῷ τεθνάμεν, ἀλλὰ ζωὸν ἐνιχριμφθέντα πύλῃσιν ἂψ ἀπονοστήσειν, ἐπεὶ οὐδὲ τὸ ἔλπετο πάμπαν ἐκπέρσειν πτολίεθρον ἄνευ ἕθεν, οὐδὲ σὺν αὐτῷ: πολλάκι γὰρ τό γε μητρὸς ἐπεύθετο νόσφιν ἀκούων, ἥ οἱ ἀπαγγέλλεσκε Διὸς μεγάλοιο νόημα. Not yet did noble Achilles know that Patroclus was dead, for they were battling very far from the swift ships under the wall of the Trojans: he never expected in his heart  that he was dead, but that he would return back again alive having reached the gates, since he did not at all expect him to sack the citadel without him, nor even with him, for often did he hear things from his mother, who secretly reported the intentions of great Zeus to him.  22. 437-446: ἄλοχος δ᾽ οὔ πώ τι πέπυστο Ἕκτορος: οὐ γάρ οἵ τις ἐτήτυμος ἄγγελος ἐλθὼν ἤγγειλ᾽ ὅττί ῥά οἱ πόσις ἔκτοθι μίμνε πυλάων, ἀλλ᾽ ἥ γ᾽ ἱστὸν ὕφαινε μυχῷ δόμου ὑψηλοῖο δίπλακα πορφυρέην, ἐν δὲ θρόνα ποικίλ᾽ ἔπασσε. κέκλετο δ᾽ ἀμφιπόλοισιν ἐϋπλοκάμοις κατὰ δῶμα ἀμφὶ πυρὶ στῆσαι τρίποδα μέγαν, ὄφρα πέλοιτο Ἕκτορι θερμὰ λοετρὰ μάχης ἐκ νοστήσαντι νηπίη, οὐδ᾽ ἐνόησεν ὅ μιν μάλα τῆλε λοετρῶν χερσὶν Ἀχιλλῆος δάμασε γλαυκῶπις Ἀθήνη. But Hector’s wife had not heard about him yet, for no messenger, a true friend, had come  to report to her that her husband remained outside the gates, but she was weaving in a corner of the tall home, a double-folded, purple web, upon which she had added many-colored flowers, and had called to her fair haired attendants in the house to set a great tripod over the fire, so that there would be a hot bath ready for Hector when he returned from battle. Blind to everything, she did not know that far from any bath  grey eyed Athena by the hand of Achilles had killed him.    

2. Upon hearing that their loved one has perished, they mourn bitterly and both express a desire to never have been born.

18. 86-7: αἴθ᾽ ὄφελες σὺ μὲν αὖθι μετ᾽ ἀθανάτῃς ἁλίῃσι ναίειν, Πηλεὺς δὲ θνητὴν ἀγαγέσθαι ἄκοιτιν. If only you had stayed there among the immortal sea nymphs, and Peleus had married a mortal.  22. 479-81: αὐτὰρ ἐγὼ Θήβῃσιν ὑπὸ Πλάκῳ ὑληέσσῃ ἐν δόμῳ Ἠετίωνος, ὅ μ᾽ ἔτρεφε τυτθὸν ἐοῦσαν δύσμορος αἰνόμορον: ὡς μὴ ὤφελλε τεκέσθαι. But I was in Thebes below wooded Placus in the home of Eetion, who brought me up when I was young, an ill fated father to a doomed child; I wish he had not begotten me.

Perseus: I'll kill anyone to defend my mom

Telemachus: I'll kill anyone my mom tells me to

Orestes: I'll kill my mom

THANK YOU <3

So, Demedeus' voice comes from the Vinland Saga form character Snake

Odysseus' voice comes from the character Bigby Wolf and the game The wolf among us

# the voices of Odysseus and Diomedes

When Apollo killed Achilles with an arrow in his heel. Achilles explodes with confetti everywhere

In this way

How do you know?where you got this information from?

Homer told me ok I have inside information

And remember that every character in the greek mythology is a complex person, even a character who are considered failure, Jason and Paris (I don't care about the two, even if their actions are not morally evil, I just hate them ok)

Even a hero who is evil/bad, they are an "anti-hero."Because after all, they are a hero in their story.

They are important because they are BIG. They are an ideology for the people at the time of their creation

Have fun with them and analyze them. That's your right. They make sense to you and to people back then

*They are a hero, not because they are good, but because they are interesting and live interesting lives, and that comes with flaws. I love how the ancient greeks created morally complex characters with a lot of depth.

Ok, I love you

Achilles and Odysseus are objectively bad people, but I find them interesting.Drag me around Troy, I don't care<3

the ancient Greeks had the balls to make their protagonists so problematic but to make sense (not all are like that)