Honestly, I Always Figured That The Reason Why The Clones Are The Way They Are In Star Wars (IE, Why

Honestly, I always figured that the reason why the Clones are the way they are in Star Wars (IE, Why they exist, why they’re written as they are) is that, fundamentally, they were beholden to that line from way back in the original Star Wars (before it was A New Hope) back in 1977. “You fought in the Clone Wars?” So, Clones have to be involved somewhere, they’re stuck with that. They’d already established the Droid armies as being a thing in A Phantom Menace, and it sells the Trade Federation (and by extension, the rest of the separatists) as cowardly, since they’re relying on machines to do their fighting for them, and since they’re expensive, they’re rich as well.

It’s important to remember that around the time of the prequels coming out, there was the very real fear among people of mechanisation in the workplace, machines coming to take their jobs (I’m not saying that isn’t still a thing, just that it was less prevalent then than now), so with that as the backdrop it’s less likely that the viewing public’d get behind a robot army. So, we have to work clones in somewhere, and they can’t be the bad guys, and the Grand Army of the Republic has to come from somewhere…….

Eureka! Make the Grand Army of the Republic clones!

It solves the problem of the giving the republic an army for the conflict, without making them look like the aggressors, or implying that they would use a standing army to enforce rule on the galaxy. The Republic is still the good guys, remember, no matter how corrupt and inefficient certain parts of them are. It also enables them to sell this conflict as being a sith plan, since this army “just happens” to have been set aside for this very purpose.

It’s also worth noticing that, in the movies at least (near as I can tell, until The Clone Wars (The CG tv show) the clones have a far more varied depiction, from being varied characters with their own views on the war, to being essentially droids made of meat, with a lot of variation between those two binaries. The Clone Wars (as above) took the decision to follow the more humanist line. I’m focusing on the movies since, again, primary source) the clones don’t really have much personality. Mostly that’s because there’s only so much screen time, and it’s being taken up by Jedi, Senators and the like, but it really feels like the only reason they’re human is so we, the viewers can emphasise with them as the good guys and to provide foreshadowing as to where those suspiciously similar stormtrooper fellows come from.

“Are the Clones slaves?” Is, at least to me, a fairly thorny ethical question in its own right, both in and out of universe. I won’t go into the specifics of that now, but it is absolutely a fun and interesting question to ponder. But there’s a myriad of reasons as to why this decision was made, so making such a binary choice as throwing out everything else because the clones are apparently slaves is honestly just kinda doing the series an injustice.

People complain that the jedi don't act appropriately to being forced to use a slaver army, but they seem to forget that the jedi can't. Not just in universe (although yes, in universe there was nothing the jedi could do about this decision made by the senate) but narratively.

The jedi can't comment on the clone's slavery because the narrative won't let them! As a matter of fact, the narrative won't let anyone mention this! Literally no one calls the clones slaves seriously, even characters who by all accounts should feel that way because the narrative won't let them because they are fictional people created by a team of writers.

The clones aren't slaves in universe because the writers refuse to write them that way. Do I personally feel that this should have been a plot point? Yeah I think it would have been interesting! But they didn't!

Is it fun to explore this in fanfiction? Yeah it totally is! I know I would mention it in any fic I write in the future.

Does it make for good media criticism or analysis? No! This is just straight up not how you professionally analysis media. It is worth bring up in a discussion about the creators and exploring why they didn't bring these things up in the series. That would be good media analysis.

But as "proof" that some characters are bad this fails dramatically. Why? Because then you must apply this logic to every character, meaning not just the jedi are evil but actually every single character in the whole series, yes all of them, are evil. Once you do that you have successfully thrown away any meaning the original work had. It is all pointless now.

People confuse in-universe (watsonian) and out-of-universe (doylist) analysis. 'Why did no one do anything about the clone's situation?' is a shit watsonian analysis. But 'why the fuck did the writers write the clones like this?' is a GREAT doylist question.

Media analysis should add meaning, or explain meaning, or even describe why you feel the work lacks meaning, but it should never take all meaning away.

It is the same reason droids aren't called slaves. It would complicate the narrative and distract from whatever the writers were actually trying to say. The writers don't want to go there, so they don't.

*Follow-up to my previous post about Mcgillis and how Gundam Ibo does myth really well*

Honestly I really like Mcgillis from Gundam ibo, because I like how you can look at him and understand exactly why he does what he does, and why he thought that was a good decision at the time.

And I think this is because he’s quite…… childish? In his reasoning sometimes. Like, him wanting to become the successor to Agnika Kaieru to reform the corrupt gjallarhorn. It feels like a lot of who Mcgillis is and what he does was decided in that moment when he looked at that book, and he hasn’t really questioned or changed his goals in that period of time.

Around the end of Iron-blooded Orphans run, his plan was solidly criticised as he basically just wanted to get Bael, and assumed that the rest of Gjallarhorn would just bow down once he had it. But, to Mcgillis’ mind, why wouldn’t they? That’s the foundation of gjallarhorn. He essentially sat down in the empty throne and expected everyone to do as he said. It’s a simple, childish way of looking at things. And how did he get Orga and Tekkadan on side? He promised to make them “Kings of Mars”. Not ruler, not make them a Gjallarhorn branch. Kings. It’s something a child would offer. It’s why his rhetoric convinces the young Liza Enza, who’s with the revolutionary fleet.

It’s why he gets on so well with Mikazuki. And it’s why I think his relationship with Almiria is so interesting.

(Not that all that’s for nothing, he’s very intelligent and knows a lot about how Gjallarhorn works which is why he’s so effective. It’s just that his goals were decided when he was a child, so they’re still tied to the perceptions of a child)

I do believe Almiria’s underutilised in IBO - she doesn’t do that much and I feel that she could have been used to contrast Kudelia a lot more, as a “princess” figure. But she does showcase a lot of Mcgillis (and Gaelio’s) character. Mcgillis is very gentle, kind and understanding with her and reassures her when she expresses doubt or worry about the situation they’re in. Mcgillis has been in a similar situation to her and probably sees at least a little of himself in her. He treats her the way he wanted to be treated and his childishness probably allows him to understand her a lot better (Though I should point out that he does knowingly manipulate her, her brother and her father a lot during the show, even if he does believe every word he tells them).

Even Montag, his alter ego is another expression of this (and of course, Char reference), because it’s just so dramatic and theatrical. He appears and warns Kudelia like a masked theatre villain and even when he betrays Gaelio, you can tell that a part of him is absolutely loving this. It’s yet another childish affectation that makes perfect sense for someone who fully believes that if he can just get Bael, then everything will fall into place.

This is in contrast to Rustal Elion, who actually understands how the world works and how to change it, in addition to having the force to back that up. Rustal isn’t bound by some ancient legend, he’s looking toward the future and deals in what is, like Julieta and the Bearded Man.

I just find Mcgillis really interesting as a character, because his failure was essentially pre-determined, simply because he got swept up in the legend of Agnika Kaieru, while Rustal kept his feet firmly planted. But then it goes odd slightly, because Mcgillis’ leaves behind a legacy almost accidentally.

Mcgillis allies with Tekkadan, who pilot the legendary Gundam frames, and arranged to have two of the Seven Stars (Gaelio and Carta) killed. This knocks the Issue family out of the Seven Stars and essentially brings the Baudin family into his corner. Mcgillis is later killed by Gaelio, fully restoring the Baudin family and ending the Fareed family (unless that other blond boy Iznario had counts, but it seems unlikely). This leaves the Seven Stars two down. Then, after Mcgillis has died, Akihiro manages to kill Iok, ending the Kujan family of the Seven Stars. This, completely unrelatedly to Mcgillis’ schemes, causes the large-scale reform of gjallarhorn and the end of the Seven Stars system, purely because Mcgillis brought Tekkadan on board, who then got into a feud with Iok and Jasley.

It’s just kinda hilarious that Mcgillis’ plan, which is carried out by Rustal, his sworn enemy, kinda only succeeds post-mortem because Akihiro manages to bring down Iok.

Mafia by J.Juan

I do really like the whole mythic aspect that Iron-Blooded Orphans brought to the table. Not just in regards to the Gundams or mobile suits specifically (though those are wonderful), but just the world in general.

Tekkadan being enshrined as “The Devils of Mars”, and Gjallarhorn’s naming convention having so much influence from Nordic legends and mythology. It really sells the world as not only believable, but where these things have power.

Where a legend can make or break something.

And the mobile suits exemplify this.

I really like the Gundams being these forgotten, almost revered machines. The legendary warriors that ended a war over three centuries ago. The relics of a bygone age, taken up by modern peoples for their own, comparatively petty, causes. That mystic aspect works really well, since it is a setting built on myth, with Kudelia’s Maiden of Revolution and Julieta’s knight imagery.

Gjallarhorn as a whole has a lot of knightly imagery in its mobile suits and it’s aesthetics. Gjallarhorn is the organisation that saved the world from the calamity war after all, so they project that image with their dress and mobile suits. Even Lieutenant Crank and Ein are emblematic of a knight and squire, with Gaelio and Ein only furthering the comparison

Ein’s is a squire, who’s knight is slain by bandits. In desperation he pledges himself to another knight in hopes of avenging his lord, eventually giving up his life to protect his new knight, who gave him that chance. He rises again as a black-armoured murderer, who is lost to his vengeance, focusing only on that single goal, being slain by the very bandits he sought to avenge himself on. Years later, his “memory” is carried by the knight he saved, which is used to give him a chance against his foe.

It sounds like a classical story, and that’s just Ein. It only touches on Gaelio, but he undergoes his own arc, intertwined with Ein. There’s a bunch of imagery like that, particularly with Gjallarhorn. One example would be railguns.

They’re fairly common weaponry, but they’re wielded so much like lances. Iok seeks to use one to slay Hashmal, so even though they’re ranged weapons in a world defined by CQC, they don’t seem out of place, because they still seem like a comparatively simple weapon. Dainsleif’s looking like bows and being employed en mass a la archers would be another example. It even adds to the knightly theme, since one of the main downfalls of knights was the invention of the longbow, a bow capable of piercing armour.

So you have this setting built on all this, where even Tekkadan, who don’t even pay lip service to the idea are part of this grander mythology.

And then Rustal shows up and completely upends it.

It just all works really well.

Nice.

It feels like the edits are a lot closer to Ganondorf in Hyrule Warriors or Ocarina of Time (which I’m personally a huge fan of), while the canon ones are taking more after Twilight Princess.

The new design also reminds me a helluva lot of Demise from Skyward Sword (though since they basically are Ganon, in a sense, I suppose that’s to be expected).

edited the new artwork of totk ganondorf too so heres both :)

(remember, this is not saying 'fixing it' or 'i replace canon', just a fun lil edit)

here are the canon ones for comparison

i think the first one is purely and illustration, the second one feels like it was the actual model painted over due to the subtle difference in design and dynamic

Just for fun, let’s think up a list of reasons as to why Mcgillis chose not to use the Fareed Family Gundam.

It was destroyed/lost in the calamity war.

It reminds him of Iznario, and he wants to reject that connection.

It’s got a very specific way of fighting (like Flauros) and he wants something with a more generalist bent.

He feels a greater kinship with Agnika Kaieru than he does the Fareed family founder.

It was the 72nd Gundam frame built, and was completed postwar, thus running counter to Mcgillis’ ambitions to be like his idol.

It’s been chained up in a similar manner to how Bael eventually will be.

It was scrapped to repair another Gundam frame.

It’s biometrically locker to a blood member of the Fareed family for some reason.

The previous pilot was an amputee, and didn’t so much pilot the Gundam in so much as they were “plugged in”. (Think Gundam Thunderbolt).

Iznario (or a prior member of the Fareed Family) sold it, or parts of it, for bread money (as the Warrens did).

It was stolen by Gundam thieves.

It requires three pilots.

The colours clash horribly with his hair.

Despite their great combat skill, the Fareed family founder was just kind of a prick, and nobody looks on their history with much fondness.

The Fareed family founder was very small by modern standards, and the cockpit’s uncomfortable to sit in for any length of time.

The hands were damaged, and are now in the permanent pose of throwing up gang signs.

Bael’s just, like, so much cooler.

It’s really, really uncomfortable to look at for a significant period of time.

Any time it’s activated, the Fareed family founder’s custom mixtape of post-calamity rap starts playing and nobody knows how to turn it off.

It’s haunted.

Iznario lost it in a poorly conceived bet.

It’s likeness was bought out by a prominent snack food corporation some years back, and as such it legally is not allowed to be viewed by anyone.

The door to it in Vingolf is stuck, and nobody ever noticed until Mcgillis came along.

Somebody spilled drink on the controls, and now they feel weirdly sticky.

The cockpit’s stuffed with body pillows, and nobody can bring themself to clean them out.

It’s lying at the bottom of the ocean after someone took it for a joyride.

It’s got an absolutely awful paint job that Norba Shino would be proud of.

It’s uninsured.

It was mounted on the prow of the Fareed family ship, and it’s exceedingly difficult to remove.

It’s stored in multiple separate locations. All Vingolf has is a pair of legs and the right hand.

It’s currently being used as a soundstage for a prominent punk-rock band on Jupiter, and no-one’s sure when the lease ends.

It has the words “free ice-cream” prominently painted on it somewhere.

It achieved sentience and promptly grabbed some popcorn.

The Fareed family never had a Gundam, and just killed that many mobile armours with conventional tactics.

It’s covered in rust.

It doesn’t have nanolaminate armour for some reason.

It’s being used as a power source for Gjallarhorn’s premier health spa and resort.

The Fareed family threw it into the sun when the war ended, believing they wouldn’t need it anymore.

It’s been repaired really badly, and the duct tape and welding really doesn’t inspire confidence.

It’s off starring in its own, less successful show.

It’s got a hit play on broadway.

It runs off a subscription service, and nobody’s been paying it for the last 300 years.

Mcgillis has really poor gatcha rolls, so he just got 26 common rarity grazes instead.

It’s really a Leo somebody scotch-taped a v-fin to.

The entire Gundam is made of cardboard.

Mcgillis forgot the password to get into the hangar, and he can’t ask Iznario.

Somebody doodled angry eyes and a handlebar moustache on it, and nobody can look at it without cracking up.

It was taken apart, then reassembled incorrectly. (It’s got a leg sticking out of where it’s head should be, and nobody’s sure where the sword ended up)

He can’t activate it without deleting the entire Fareed family’s Doom highscores.

It’s currently being used to hold a massive tv that the rest of Gjallarhorn use to watch the hockey.

It is currently on fire.

When he went to pick it up, two of the engineers were using it to hold a romantic candlelit dinner and he felt awkward interrupting so he hasn’t been back since.

A head of the Fareed family used it as the site of a drunken party and when everyone came round from their hangover it was just gone, and nobody could remember what happened to it.

It looks exactly like the Gundam Dantalion, and records have been lost as to why this is the case.

It’s currently being used as a scarecrow.

Feel free to add any more in the comments!