A Fair Opinion! If I May Make A Counterargument With Context

A fair opinion! If I may make a counterargument with context—

There’s inherent tragedy in the reason WHY Lloyd has to kill his dad. It’s interconnected in one MASSIVE series arc that is incredibly tragic in terms of the themes of family Ninjago has always strived for.

Lloyd, young 8-year-old Season 1 Lloyd, once looked up to his father. He wanted to be just like him, evil and all, even when Garmadon was banished to the Underworld Lloyd’s whole 8-year-old life. He finds out he has to fight his father (possibly to the death),something his father, corrupted by evil, does not want. There’s struggle on both sides to avoid this fight, but destiny finds a way. Lloyd is a child when he has to fight his possessed dad, and after a very emotionally grueling battle, manages to win. His father is finally free from evil. Everything should be happy.

Except Lloyd is trapped forever by destiny, by the narrative, by the cycle of war and grief and tragedy that Ninjago writes (seriously, cycles and spinning are central themes in this series). And he only gets his father back for a short while before he has to sacrifice him to save his home, has to banish him to the Cursed Realm & therefor get him “killed”. It’s a theme of sacrifice that Lloyd has always had to do— sacrifice his childhood to the prophecy of the Green Ninja, sacrifice his powers, sacrifice his father, sacrifice his life, all for “destiny” (which is literally written as a narrative in-universe by the Cloud Kingdom).

And then the next season, his father dies when the cursed realm is destroyed, all because Lloyd opened the portal there in the first place allowing some ghosts to escape & sent his father to that realm.

And Lloyd grieves.

A few seasons later, Harumi (you’ve seen her mentions in Lloyd’s propaganda, it’s this whole other tragic thing) resurects Lloyd’s father, but only the evilness. There is no trace of the man he once was. Lloyd fights him again, tries to reach out to him the way he once did in the prophecy battle—

And is beaten within an inch of his life and thrown through multiple walls by his father. His father takes over the city, destroys it, sends a vicious manhunt after an injured Lloyd. His father (at least from Lloyd’s perspective, unaware they escaped) murders multiple members of Lloyd’s family. Over and over, Lloyd is hurt by him.

And then we see a mirror that shows your deepest, darkest fear. And when Lloyd stands before it, he sees himself becoming his father. The thing he once wanted more than anything has become his greatest fear. He is scarred, never to recover, having lost all hope and love for the person he once loved more than anyone, his idol, his hero, his father.

(And that’s not even touching all the stuff with Garmadon in the movie, nor all of Lloyd’s other traumas like dying multiple times or getting possessed or being isolated for years thinking all his friends/family is dead or watching said friends and family die multiple times or everything else)

I recognize that there can be debate over how to define tragedy, like Greek tragedies hardly all followed Aristotle's definition and those were in turn different from things like Shakespearean tragedy or modern definitions of "tragic character" but I think at the very least a tragic character should have a coherent arc, quality over quantity. A bunch of UNRELATED bad things happening to a character just because a show has gone on for a really long time isn't really telling a coherent tragic story. Especially when some of the bad things happening are literally repeats of each other. Like I haven't watched Ninjago but I keep hearing about how Lloyd had to kill his father 3 times, but I think reusing a "he has to kill his father" plot point over and over again while not having him die for real just to give each season a new plot is a lot less tragic than a more coherent narrative where someone just has to kill their father once and this ties into their overall character arc.

Very valid opinion

Ninjago, the realm where anything is possible and potential is limitless, where destiny is defied

And the Cloud Kingdom, the realm where everything is pre-written and narrative is limited, where destiny is defined

Heyyyyy. I have a Ninjago theoryyyyy.

So, I'm pretty sure it's said/implied in Season 14 that FSM didn't create the realm of Ninjago, but rather he showed up and then created the continents of Ninjago and the Dark Island, which eventually split to seal away the Overlord.

Now, we also know from Season 6 that sister realms exist, because the Cursed Realm and Djinjago are sister realms. I read somewhere that people think these two have no similarities, but that conversation will be shelved for now.

I think Cloud Kingdom and Ninjago are sister realms.

Why do I think that? First off, the only destinies we've seen Cloud Kingdom work on so far has been people in Ninjago or the Cloud Kingdom. Not saying that it isn't possible that they write destinies for other realms, just thst we haven't seen it yet.

Now, remember that conversation we shelved? Yeah, my cat knocked it off the shelf and splayed it out on the table, so now let's talk about the "relations" (?) between the Cursed Realm and Djinjago, and how that can sort of apply to Cloud Kingdom and Ninjago.

First off, let's think about what the Cursed Realm and Djinjago literally are. The Cursed Realm is the place where you get sent to when you've done many horrible things in your life, and get placed into what I assume is a brutal, choiceless dictatorship, judging by the cages and chains we see. Djinjago is a land filled with djin's, people similar to genies that can grant three wishes for you.

The Cursed Realm strips you of your choices, while Djinjago essentially makes your choices limitless (within the three wish parameters, of course). Their inhabitants (from what we've seen from Seasons 5 & 6) are very cruel and manipulative. They have strong similarities and opposites.

So, how does this apply to Ninjago and Cloud Kingdom? First off, Ninjago and Djinjago rhyme, and Cloud Kingdom and the Cursed Realm are two words, thee first word starting with a "C" and the second word being some form of big location. Second, Ninjago was originally a realm completely covered by water, and Cloud Kingdom is literally a kingdom in the clouds! What's more opposite than the sky and the sea??

Speaking of the sky and the sea, the two elements the FSM never mastered were wind and water. Wind being sky aka Cloud Kingdom and being very tied into destiny (cough cough Morro who literally rewrote destiny and Euphrasia who is a destiny writer cough cough), and water being sea aka Ninjago. Yeah, Wojira basically controlled both, but she's a serpent that has dragonlike wings.

My conclusion? Cloud Kingdom and Ninjago are sister realms, because I've found evidence that supports my theory and none that disproves it.

Sorry for any typos, I am eepy.

OP this is so bigbrained—

A lot of fans have speculated that Jay has amnesia, possibly from either a head injury, elemental power backlash, or something going wrong in the Administration when he either wound up there right from the Merge or was going to get relocated

But if he’s been in the Realm of Madness (now the Kingdom of Madness) potentially for years since the beginning of the merge…

Well, Garmadon got his extra arms in this realm. It’s possible it’ll drive someone a bit mad or have other unexpected consequences.

“So why isn’t Nya affected?” was my first thought, considering Lloyd, Arin, Riyu, and Sora find her helping the Craglings, except…

“The Merge. Nya, is this where you woke up when it hit?”

“No. A lot happened to me after the Merge. But now’s not the time to get into all those stories. Just know I woke up alone, pretty far from here, and started to work my way back to Ninjago.”

So if Jay really has lost his memory, it could be as a side effect from being in the Realm of Madness for so long when he isn’t a normal inhabitant of this kingdom

Also if I had a nickel for every time Jay ended up in a different realm and lost his marbles…

Sorry for derailing the post OP your art is just SO AMAZING and it made me want to analyze the situation

hey guys so jays in the realm of madness right. how's that going for him

OOOOOO I love your thought process so much (Cole & theatre works SO WELL- Apollo could work too because song and dance, and Lloyd as Apollo fits super well too)

In the version I've got with @genderfluidkai, we've been playing around with-

Hephaestus Kai and Poseidon Nya (with the same mortal parent) who got locked in the Lotus Casino for a bit

Automaton Zane built by Daedalus/Dr. J, blessed by Boreas (Greek god of the North Wind)

We thought about Gaia or Demeter for Cole, but settled on the Earthshaker epithet of Neptune (yeah, Cole's a Roman demigod everyone mistakes for a Greek and takes to Camp Halfblood!)

Same with debating Jay for Zeus, Hephaestus, or Hermes, but we decided that he's actually a child of Thor that everyone mistakes for a Zeus kid (he and Cole get brought to CHB after outrunning a norse lindwyrm and a Strix- Cole football-tossed Jay through the camp barrier)

And for Lloyd- or at least young S1 Lloyd- we thought Dionysus because chaos and gremlin energy while still having life (and also Mr. D being a very tired Garmadon who only has a soft spot for his son was just too funny)

Oh, and Morro's an eidolon (son of Notus) who was friends with Kai and Nya in life before they got stuck in the casino and he died via monster attack

[[Bonus movie!Dorksquad because we merged the show and movieverse for this AU-]]

Kai = Venus (roman Aphrodite)

Nya = Victoria (roman Nike)

Zane = Norse Frost Giant in disguise

Cole = Apollo (roman)

Jay = Jupiter (roman Zeus) and a praetor (we gave him SO MUCH ANGST lol)

Lloyd = Pluto (roman Hades)- Morro hangs around him because Green Cousins go brrrr (in this AU, the show and movie Lloyds are cousins - and fun fact, the two Jays are half-brothers through Cliff on their mortal sides)

Have you ever read any of the Percy Jackson books or the like? If so-

Any thoughts on a Ninjago Demigod AU?

OHHHH DUDE I LOVE PERCY JACKSON I GREW UP WITH IT!

Man a demigod AU…….. that’d be so fascinating omg

My first thought is Kai and Nya being children of Hephaestus. The god of blacksmithing and fire? Perfect for Kai. Craftsman, metalwork, so Nya. I considered Nya being a child of Poseiden but I couldn’t bear to separate her from Kai GDKSHDK

Jay is VERY obvious. Child of Zeus, he hates Zeus tho cuz he sucks so he spends all his time crafting with the Hephaestus cabin kids instead

Zane would be an automaton I feel, perhaps one given life by one of the gods? Maybe Athena?

Ngl I had a hard time placing Cole. The big earth deity that sticks out to me is Gaia, but she’s a Titan and I’m trying to stick with gods. I ended up going with Dionysus, his godly parent being the god of theater just hit to me

With Lloyd I’d go with a child of Apollo. Prophecy. Healing. Apollo is practically the sun itself, the thing that gives Life to everything on earth. Idk it feels very Lloyd to me

@finn-m-corvex you brilliant funky moot you've got SO MANY GREAT QUESTIONS WHICH ARE GETTING ME TO THINK ON THIS—

Starting with the movie!Bizarros— Kaigami is the only one I had full details on when the AU was first made (they are a bean and my little blorbo that needs all the hugs), but since then I’ve been spitballing some headcanons with my friends on the others—

In normal movieverse hcs, they go as follow:

- Jayden (bizarro Blue) is a young oni that snuck over from the continent of Onitoryū (the First Realm) to the continent of Ninjago (yes we hc’d that the realms exist as continents in the movieverse before Dragons Rising existed), saw Blue, and used his image as his shapeshifting disguise because he’s bad at shapeshifting fully (the fluffy hair hides the horns, the scarf hides the tusks/fangs, the hoodie pocket hides claws, baggy clothes hides tail, etc.)

— Charcoal (Bizarro Black) is a clone made by Vangelis to get vengeance on Lilly for messing up his plans back in the day (she’s a big hero in Shintaro because she split the land away from the continent of the Cloud Kingdom and made it its own mini continent/island)

— Oread (Bizarro White) is a nindroid built by Garmadon’s enginerds (he has seagull/pelican/osprey features because Garmadon has to insert sea-creature themes into all of his designs)

So in the D:BH AU, Oread would kinda be like RK900 (except probably get rescued too), Jayden could be one of the androids at Jericho that looks up to Blue as inspiration (or perhaps Cyberlife/the Mechanic tries to build a new Blue because he supposedly was destroyed?), and Charcoal could be— uh— a vibing human? Or an android teen model based off Black in case he didn’t make through the cyborg surgery?

Yeah White and Zero (Cryptor) share the role of Connor in the sense that Zero is more the deviant-hunter side (except already deviant) and White was deviant but lost his memories and thinks Cyberlife built him, not Dr. J, and follows their orders (he does eventually come to his senses and regains deviancy, probably while encountering Echo)

Blue does not want to be the leader of the rebellion because, you know, anxiety + social anxiety, but whoops he’s an advanced model that found himself in a leadership position and has accidentally started the revolution. 

And you are ABSOLUTELY right— Black would be the “North” equivalent (or Simon) because while Jaya is cute, movie!Bruise is just adorable (also I hc movie!Nya/Cyan as a lesbian as opposed to show!Nya)— Cyan would absolutly be the one to suggest violence though and if anyone hurt Blue (which technically Cliff and the Ambers already have since he got… a bit disassembled on his way to the junkyard), Black would be right there with her on letting the city burn

As for Luther- technically no, though the "Kara" story does already have the RGB sibs looking out for each other. EXCEPT I JUST HAD THE PERFECT IDEA WHILE TYPING THIS OUT- the Luther-esc figure could TOTALLY be movie!Morro (normally a tired college student looking out for his cousin Green, in this case either human or an android)

I’m really glad you like the AU :D If you’ve got more ideas or questions or comments PLEASE send them because it’s so fun to think about with a friend/mutual

https://www.tumblr.com/impulsivefanwriter/733578350737719296/the-lego-ninjago-movie-but-its-a-dbh-au ask about the D:BH AU and I shall receive :D

YES YES YES HI YES I SAW IT AND I THOUGHT I REBLOGGED IT BUT I JUST. COMPLETELY MIND-BLANKED SO FORGIVE ME JFALJFKDLJFAL

Choosing to make Kai the android instead of Lloyd is such a cool decision??? Like so much respect for not immediately jumping to making Lloyd the Thing just because he's the most main character-coded person in Ninjago. I'm also VERY interested in Kaigami; will the other Bizarros be here as well, or just Kai's?

ZANE AS CONNOR?! YOUR HONOR I AM SCREAMING AHHHHHHH I FUCKING LOVE CONNOR ABSOLUTELY YES I AM IN LOVE

JAY AS MARKUS?!

RESPECTFULLY I AM FULLY DOWN TO CLOWN WITH THIS CONCEPT HELL FUCKING YES?! SO GOOD?! IS COLE THE NORTH EQUIVALENT IS THIS BRUISE OR IS THIS JAYA OR IS IT NEITHER DAJKSLJFSAKLJF I MUST KNOW MORE

IS THERE A LUTHER YET?!

Shoutouts to (the SPBNR Discord server)’s name headcanons of—

Aki — Bizarro!Kai, name comes from an anagram of Kai, also (possibly, please politely correct me if I’m wrong!) can mean “bright”, “shining”, “autumn”, “sparkle”, “daybreak”, and/or “love, hope” depending on the writing in Japanese

Nane — Bizarro!Zane, name come from flipping the Z into an N (can be a dialectal variant of “None”)

Cage — Bizarro!Jay, name comes from the letter sounds it makes (Jay = J, Cage = K + G (but a soft g)), also comes from a birdcage that could trap a bluejay (his backup name is Corvid)

Chons — Bizarro!Cole, name comes from the chemical formula for coal (ex. C137H97O9NS is bituminous coal). He tried to get the nickname “Chronos” instead (a fitting name considering the scythe). It didn’t catch on

Okay, after watching Ninjago since the start and being in the fandom for a while, I think the weirdest thing to me is people actually remembering and making fics and designs of the evil versions of the ninja that literally appeared in one episode in the second season. Like. What

Honestly I should just stop questioning the Ninjago fandom