Lesfir - Dark Charm Mess

Wow, nice cloud of mist

You've been eaten right up

Astarion is flying around the camp and wants to hear juicy drunken secrets. Nice stealth.

You know what is wild to me?

People were making fun of Ascended Astarion when he turned into a bat after Patch 5. I stumbled across some posts since Tumblr's being stupid with the latest tags and had a good laugh. They seem pretty serious about it too. "He's pretending to be so scary and then he just turns into a freakin' bat, of all things! Isn't that funny?!"

No? Not really? We all should have expected Astarion to have the ability to turn into a bat sooner or later, even as a spawn. Or a wolf. Or a cloud of mist. Or a cloud of bats. It's what vampires do. They've been doing it in media for so long. It's a powerful ability used for stealth and easy movement. And think about this: you can be easily stalked by a bat. You would never know he was there until it was too late. It's just another tool for hunting among other things in a vampire's arsenal.

Anyone foolish enough to underestimate this ability deserves their fate. Maybe anyone foolish enough to call him cute, too, though let's face it, he'd eat up that kind of attention before dining on them.

Enchantix A little darker

Ascendant Couple

i just watched pokemon concierge

Not to make excuses, but Ascended Astarion never sounded sincere when saying, "I love you" may be a product of not wanting to say it. I noticed that when he says those words, and the Act 1 spawn version, his expression changes.

In Act 1 during the scene where he's throwing all those pick up lines at you his face reads like he's into it. He's confident, he seems to be enjoying the moment. Honestly, that scene almost comes off like a friend just shooting the shit with you rather than an attempt at manipulation.

Then that expression falls away when he says those three little words. I get the feeling he's said those words so many times to people he cared nothing for that he just can't say them without feeling detached.

Perhaps, even when he does love Tav, those words just feel false on his tongue. Like he feels obligated to say them. Man can think of 1000s of ways to express desire and affection, but those words will always be too taint to carry weight.

I know I feel like that. I can say I love you to an animal and mean it. However, I hate saying it to people. Especially when they say it first and it's expected I return it. Otherwise, I'm clearly a terrible person.

Okay see you get it though. I hope you don't mind if I go on a bit about my thoughts about ascended Astarion because I feel like a lot of his character gets misinterpreted.

First off one of the things I see most in fanfics for him is that he's changed and lost himself, or that he's all of a sudden evil. I don't think that's true, he's always been possessive, controlling, and evil it's just now he has the power to actually act on those things.

for possessive it's clear that once you romance him he’s not much for sharing but may put up with it out of fear that the first person he's ever cared about will leave him if he doesn't bend to them, on top of that even if he did act on those tendencies not only would the party back Tav up, both verbally and physically if it got to that point as most of the party doesn't trust him, but Tav is also scary to fight 1v1. In becoming an ascendent and Tav becoming his bride/groom he actually has the power to push and sway them with little to no repercussions as by that point there's very little anyone can do to stop him and if Tav has agreed to become his spawn, literally dying for him, it's safe for him to assume he has them wrapped around his finger

The controlling and evil part is more obvious but also glossed over as you need to make persuasion checks for him to give up control in certain situations while a lot of his approval choices are just cruel or evil. Be it because he was like that before he died, he's a spawn that normally becomes evil by D&D rules, or he's just had so much abuse and cruelty inflicted on him that seeing it done to others for once feels good. He actively dislikes being kind because it's something he needed but never got, so much so that the only way he really becomes “good” is because Tav has the choice to gently push him into becoming so. Without Tav and them being kind or growing close to him if he had theoretically been able to do everything on his own, he absolutely would have ascended without even thinking twice.

Also the idea that he no longer loves tav after ascending makes no real sense to me either, while I havent confirmed it for myself apparently if you're bit romancing him its easier to convince him to stop the ritual then it is if you're romancing him. To me that speaks volumes because while he's scared and looking power to protect himself, he's also now doing it because he loves and cares about someone. He wants to protect tav and in his mind this is the best way to do it. A lot of people at this point point to the whole “he’ll always view you as degrading yourself” line but to me, that's always felt like him knowing that you could walk away, and be something greater than just his. Is he powerful? Yes, but that doesn't mean the scars have healed no matter how much he may pretend, that leaves a lot of fear and self-hate to linger. Tav as a character is either set up to be a believed hero or a ruler as the absolute (either in bhaals name or their own) so by choosing to become his spawn you are essentially giving up the power and glory willingly and I think on some level he knows that even if at the point he doesn't know exactly what is being given up.

I think this is reflected well when he says “you have given me everything. Thank you” its the most sincere we hear him after he ascends because he's right. As the player we've given him power, love, and are willing to tie ourselves to him forever thus forgoing anything else we could have been or done. As to why that's the most sincere we hear from him? Because it's private, he can be vulnerable with the person he loves and who's never turned their back on him but for others, he doesn't have that assurance and thus in his mind he can't afford to show weakness so, of course, he's going to come off as a bit colder and distant, he loves the player but showing weakness and vulnerability to anyone but them puts both him and them in danger.

I've pointed out that Astarion is not a good guy in the beginning. People want to play him off as some kind of prince when he's the exact opposite. He's the guy your family will disown you over, possibly the guy who will convince you to kill them for disapproving of him too.

When Larian's interview stated that Ascended Astarion is still Astarion, I was convinced that this wasn't a change at all. This is just who he was, only amplified and over time, he will come down from it. To what level, who knows, but with "mortal pleasures", possibly leaning into feelings, mixed in, he's not going to be able to keep that up without sheer exhaustion following. He feels LONELY after only 6 months.

I mean, if you look back at him throughout the game, it's basically foreshadowing what you have on your hands, and still do if you go the spawn route. There's no telling if he will act this way if you bring him back to life as he would have more options for seizing any kind of power, something he's been trying to do the entire ride. It's ten times worse if you're romancing him as you've been pulled into that fold. It feels like no matter what you do for him, he's always going to be vying for power, even if he doesn't outright say it. You would LITERALLY have to sit on him to make sure he doesn't kill someone or go bolting for some artifact with rumored power behind your back given his personality. The temptation will ALWAYS be there.

I'm not sure if DnD vampire rules even apply to him becoming evil or not considering they don't really touch on his life BEFORE Cazador. All we really know is he was a magistrate and he did something to piss the Gur off and it got him killed, though I'm more of the camp that Cazador 100% staged it to get ahold of him. I am also of the camp that the way he approves of things hinges on the fact that he's been conditioned that people in power have to be cruel so he will be the same, like faking it until he makes it.

If Tav wasn't an adventurer or someone who didn't prove themselves throughout the game through wit and strength, I'd say, yeah, Astarion could get away with hurting them and all and not have to worry about repercussions but that isn't the case. Any Tav can CRUSH and outsmart him and has made enough allies to do it. Wouldn't matter if Tav goes along with the abuse, if word gets out that Astarion is hurting them, he will have a POWERFUL army at his door to take him down and talk sense into Tav. He'll have another Karlach on his hands if Tav wakes up. Reducing Tav to this meek, weak little victim and that being their only personality under his rule after everything they've been through is just... I don't know, strange? And I'm not minimizing anything either. I've seen relationship abuse before, even written fics highlighting it in the past, and how it can happen, it's just this comes off more as projecting than anything we've seen in-game.

Even if Tav was an embraced Dark Urge, Bhaal is NOT going to stand for his Chosen to be treated that way. They are his avatar, after all. One word from Bhaal and DU is going to kill Astarion, no questions asked. The Dark Urge isn't going to risk angering their father now that they're back in his good graces AND have been gifted the Slayer form, something Fel says they've been wishing for for so long. Being ascended is nothing in the eyes of the God of Murder. Astarion has a lot more riding on how he treats Tav than one thinks and I don't think he's dumb enough to put his own life in danger like that. He's self-preserving and that would come first and foremost despite having any kind of power. Villains tend to build up their defenses.

I do believe Astarion, ascended or otherwise, loves Tav. There isn't a doubt in my mind that he doesn't. The separate difficulties in talking him down during the ascension and the fact he wants them to live their best life give it away. It's silly to think that he'd lose all feelings for Tav JUST because he ascended. If anything, it magnified them. It's not like if Tav turns into a Mindflayer without a soul or anything when it would make sense lore-wise (I mean, even Withers points it out and the idea that Mindflayers only retain memories, they're no longer the person they once were) and he'll end up mourning their loss. He's still got some stuff to work out, but it's still there. He has an issue with that word which is another thing that goes over people's heads.

I do agree with you on the whole degrading thing. It's not in the way Tav is sullying themselves, it's just them giving up so many other, potentially more powerful options which could be toxic for Astarion and make him try to push himself to be more powerful to make up for it if he thinks he can to strive to be something Tav may want or deserves. It's on the same level as Gale trying to impress you with magic and such and you have to tell him that he's enough to have your attention.

I think Astarion is a mostly private person forced to be out in the open in general, which is why you can only get genuine and sincere reactions out of him in private. Everything else is announced otherwise as he's used to being essentially a prostitute for all to gawk at.

Let's face it too, if Tav can "gently" push Astarion into doing "good" before, like most "good" Tavs do, nothing is saying they can't do that after he ascends either. His personality has not changed that drastically. It's only amplified. You grounded him as a spawn, he'll need the same treatment after ascending too as he's riding that power high that hits him with everything he hasn't felt in 200 years. He needs to get that out of his system.