Exactly! The Majority Of The Lords Of Westeros Fought For Rhaenyra. They Didn't Complain Or Petition

Exactly! The majority of the lords of Westeros fought for Rhaenyra. They didn't complain or petition Viserys to change his mind. No one cared except the greens.

If Aegon, Alicent, and the other greens had just not committed treason, they would have been perfectly safe. Rhaenyra even offered to pardon them even after Aegon crowned himself! Rhaenyra never took any steps to endanger her siblings until after Aemond killing Lucerys.

Bringing up Rhaenyra's children and their legitimacy doesn't actually work in this universe. There are no paternity tests, they only have Laenor's word, no matter what the boys look like!

Adoption was a thing in the Medieval time; Luke was chosen by Laenor and Corlys as their heir, that's all you need in that time. The lords of Westeros accepted that, all that mattered was Laenor and Corlys' word. The only reason the greens and Vaemond pushed it was because they saw it as a possible way to undermine Rhaenyra.

That's just the case of Luke and the case of Driftmark, Jace and the IT is a completely different matter. The IT passes through Rhaenyra; she's the Targaryen, she's the heir. Therefore, all that matters for Jace is that he's Rhaenyra's son, legitimate or not. He's a Targaryen and the oldest son of the heir of the throne and Viserys acknowledged him as Rhaenyra's heir.

Why did Cersei order all of Robert's bastards to be killed? Because they were his blood, therefore they had claim to the throne, legitimate or not. So in Rhaenyra's case, Jace is a perfectly allowable and acceptable heir to the IT. He was declared legitimate by Laenor and Viserys, if Rhaenyra's word isn't good enough. The lords of Westeros acknowledged Jace as Rhaenyra's trueborn son and heir, as did all the maesters and historians after.

Though his fifteenth nameday was still half a year away, Prince Jacaerys had proved himself a man and a worthy heir to the Iron Throne."

Fire & Blood: The Dying of the Dragons - A Son for a Son

Wow, look at how the realm so clearly was unwilling to accept Jace as heir. It's almost like the greens were just making shit up to justify their treason.

I don’t think people understand why Alicent was so bothered by Rhaenyra having illegitimate children as much as she was. Yes, part of it was coming from a place of frustration at Rhaenyra for scoffing at tradition and not honouring her marriage vows, but Alicent’s primary focus was on the politics - and how it put her own children in mortal danger.

Painting: The Execution of Lady Jane Grey

You see, if Rhaenyra had legitimate children with Ser Laenor, then the Greens would have no reason whatsoever to try and replace Rhaenyra as heir to the throne with Aegon. They, in truth, would’ve been usurpers. But as we know, Rhaenyra having bastards not only weakened her own claim to the throne but by it, she has given her enemies a legitimate reason to support Aegon instead of her. Just think about it - nearly every lord in the realm has a bastard of his own. If Rhaenyra puts her own bastards on the throne, it sets a precedent - that bastards can have a claim to a title just as much as legitimate children can. This of course presents a HUGE crisis to the lords who probably have multiple bastards running around, now all potential heirs to his house. Some lords might even have older bastard brothers, brothers who would potentially be better rulers than them if they were trueborn. Brothers who would follow Rhaenyra’s suit and place themselves in positions of great power and usurp their trueborn sibling’s claims. No doubt, this would lead to violence, in-fighting, bloodshed and the potential extinction of houses and bloodlines that go back thousands of years.

So naturally, any lord who would be fearful of this playing out would naturally ally themselves with the trueborn children of House Targaryen - Alicent’s children. Whether the Greens want it or not, Aegon, Helaena, Aemond and Daeron would become unwilling figureheads for rebellions against Rhaenyra. These rebels would rally themselves around Alicent’s children, demand them to be crowned instead of Rhaenyra, and of course, Rhaenyra would have absolutely no choice but to execute her half-siblings, to save herself and her children. Whether Alicent’s children want it or not, they are living, breathing, constant challenges to Rhaenyra’s throne.

It’s the exact predicament Mary I of England faced - a Catholic queen who had just deposed her Protestant cousin, the Lady Jane Grey, Mary had no choice but to order 16 year old Jane’s execution in 1554. Despite having Jane imprisoned, rebels kept on popping up around England, all marching on London to dethrone Mary in Jane’s name, even though Jane herself was oblivious to what was happening because she was behind bars and had already relinquished her crown and declared for Mary. Mary was hoping to restore Catholicism to England and was planning to marry a foreign prince so she could provide England with a Catholic heir - but she knew so long as Jane lived, Mary, her future children and England would never know peace. So she reluctantly signed Jane’s death warrant, causing the death of one of England’s most tragic figures.

This would be the fate of Alicent’s children if Rhaenyra ever ascended the throne. No matter how good willed Queen Rhaenyra would be to her siblings, it wouldn’t last. The minute the first lord lit the beacon of rebellion and openly called Rhaenyra’s sons illegitimate usurpers of Alicent’s trueborn children with no right to the throne, Alicent’s children would’ve been executed. There’s absolutely no way Rhaenyra would ever chose Aegon, Helaena, Aemond and Daeron’s lives over her own living children - what mother would?

I’ve noticed a trend where TG come onto other peoples posts to write a bunch of self righteous horseshit and then immediately blocking the person to stop any further discussion.

It’s very weird behaviour.

The ultimate proof that they don't actually have a valid argument.

https://www.tumblr.com/the-daily-dreamer/703632217679790080/aemond-and-aegon-should-go-full-uno-reverse-on?source=share

It's hilarious how TG fans don't get how A. Rhae's boys are all legal claimed by THE KING and their paternal grandfather and B. if believed, the king would have had to put ALL OF THEM (including baby Joffery and a five- and six-year-old) to death or exile. While Aemond is a kinslayer of a peace envoy and was a little boy and SUPPOSE to be granted protection from harm due to being a peace envoy.

See I think they do know, they just don't care. TG stans only care about morality and honestly if they can try to use it to make their favs look better.

To them, Rhaenyra daring to choose the father of her children and not getting the punishment they believe she deserves is worse than anything Aegon and Aemond have done. They believe that Luke, a literal child and envoy, deserved his death simply because his parents weren't married.

It doesn't matter that in the eyes of the law, historians, and literally every lord except the greens, Luke is Laenor's son. It doesn't matter that his life and those of his brothers and mother were constantly put in danger by what they were saying. Yes, everyone knew, but no one gave a flying fuck, and that pisses them off. Everyone should follow the same archaic and repressive ideals Alicent adores, except when they apply to men.

It is disturbing that they want to compare Rhaenyra protecting her children from that harpy named Alicent and her monstrous sons to Aemond murdering an unarmed boy. Aemond attacked Luke unprovoked while he was under the protection of Westerosi laws and conventions (protection of envoys and kinslaying). Like mother like son I suppose. Aemond is a mommy's boy, so it's no surprise he'd emulate her blatant disrespect and disregarding of actual laws and the lives of innocents.

My cat ate my fucking Popeyes, and still had the nerve to jump into my bed like nothing ever happened.

Like if she wasn't so gd cute, I'd kick her out, but....

How could I refuse that face??

If Alicent Hightower (show) has no haters, then I’m dead.

Rhaenys killing smallfolk is so…. Like wtf, and then people be like “Kinslaying is the worst crime there is! She’d be stupid to do it!”, first HOTD never introduces the notion of kinslaying, and killing hundreds of people is a crime too! She is already a criminal for what she did, why stop halfway if you’re going full murderer ? If you’re gonna commit a decapitation worthy offence, then you might as well kill the people who are a legitimate threat to your future great grandchildren and granddaughters themselves.

Them coming out saying that Rhaenys didn’t kill them because it’s not her war…. Lol, it was her war the moment she agreed to betroth her granddaughters to Rhaenyra’s sons. Her family (the little that is left of it) is in legitimate danger and she passed up the opportunity to kill people who WERE ACTIVELY PLANNING ON KILLING HER FAMILY ANYWAYS. (Yes, I know it was mostly Rhaenyra and Daemon but Jace and Luke and Joff would have to go too and Daemon is the father of Rhaena and Baela, the twins have legal claim to the throne, so no ways they letting that slide either).

Yeah, this has been my argument as well. I will never not be angry about this damned episode, esp this scene.

My biggest gripe about this fool of an episode is that if Rhaenys says she doesn't want to "be involved" in "their" war is that in ANY iteration of these events where Baela & Rhaena exist without turning this into a full-fledged AU like sweetestpopcorn's "The Black and the Greens", Rhaenys will ALWAYS be "involved"...

because those girls are DAEMON'S DAUGHTERS and ONE OF THEM LIVES WITH DAEMON AND RHAENYRA!!! And this Rhaenys constantly has said she primarily cares about her own kids and grandchildren, not Viserys, Daemon, or Rhaenyra...so what gives?!

In a world where these strategy-minded people would, you know, think strategy...Rhaenys practically spoon-fed them a public reason to go to war and assume a protective-justice persona!!!

To further paint the blacks as violence mongerers or even just shit-starters, even with those killed being peasants, bc the sheer number of people killed simultaneously who live around you & around your castle who have historically been a part of some Faith-led attacks against the crown (Aenys, Maegor, Rhaena & her brother Aegon--the Poor Fellows) is astronomical. Killing that many smallfolk doesn't pay and rather makes for a larger number of angrier smallfolk with a reason to be angrier than average. You'd think she'd realize that and idk, maybe not kill dozens if not thousands of smallfolk.

Otto will always look to them as possible rivals because of that connection to the person he thinks will likely always contend with him/anyone for power, espe after he includes the younger boys' hostage-taking in his terms in episode 10. Aside from Otto--who had a grip on Alicent's decision-making until it came to Rhaenyra (as if Rhaenyra doesn't come with her kids, who Alicent has accepted the risk of exile or total ruination for 10 years, but I digress).

And Alicent--by the next season's 2 trailers--appears to go back to Otto as a consultant and guide as to how the greens will face the blacks, so we can't argue that she will not escape his influence even with her allowing herself to understand his manipulativeness. She obviously didn't want a war and has tried to stave it off by holding Rhaenys hostage and sending that damned page to Rhaenyra with Otto's terms--that is if she actually sent it--she also sets up a possible war through usurping Rhaenyra in the first place! And Alicent isn't actually fighting against Rhaenyra for the sake of "the realm" but for for her own position as the mother to a possible king/wife of a past king and the lives of her kids.

Even in the book--if you are inclined to believe that she believes this and/or has sincerely taken Otto's fear of Daemon as her own maybe bc similarly to the show he instilled in her that fear of him--Alicent brings up Daemon's supposed bloodthirstiness and inevitable murder of her kids as reason to usurp Rhaenyra ("The Blacks and the Greens"):

As for the kinslaying part, they refused to insert Rhaenyra's lines of that, instead making her grab Otto's pendant and throwing it off the bridge in a much more flaccid version of what she does with Orwyle's chains in the book. Without the context of her giving Aegon that chance to withdraw AND criticizing Orwyle taking the green side and basically going against his own maester code of following traditions and laws, show!Rhaenyra's protests against Otto is more losing the desired cool & careful, wise reservedness that HotD already favors over original "proud" book!Rhaenyra. And I think that it's to give the Dance story this faux measure of "balance" that ozymalek talks about HERE:

People often argue whether HOTD showrunners are biased in favor of Team Black or Team Green. I think the answer to this question can't be encapsulated within the context of "bias", at least not fully. They are biased for both and neither at the same time and it's difficult to explain, but I will try to articulate how I see it. The Dance era in "Fire and Blood" is something that will fundamentally cause the feelings of cognitive dissonance. I think this is why people initially disliked this book when it first came out. It did not provide easy answers, it was written as a historical account, the in-universe historians were clearly biased. People, however, had trouble realizing who the historians are biased for and against. Team Green would have you think that "F&B" is biased against the Greens, because their allegiance as maesters clearly being to Hightowers notwithstanding, they could not evade simple historical facts: that most of the kingdom supported Rhaenyra, that Greens were horrendously misogynistic and that her usurpation was clearly wrong. That's why, approaching it from the "choose your favorite war criminal" point of view, it was difficult for Greens to accept that their preferred side is so cartoonishly evil - obviously bias must have been involved, even though the only pro-Black narrator of F&B is Mushroom, the rest are Greens. The maester's anti-Targaryen bias, however, manages to sneak in and mess with the reader's balance, causing said cognitive dissonance. It's hard to deal with it as a reader, let alone as a showrunner who's trying to adapt a story in which not everything is set in stone. They incorrectly assumed that, because they are constantly forced to question what is happening in the story, the bias is with the underlying idea that there was a correct side. As such, they assumed that all the inconsistencies result from maesters not choosing to view it that way. Ryan Condal repeatedly stated that he does not want watchers to pick sides, while George RR Martin embraces it and even encourages it (and I think that he himself has picked the Blacks). Such is our nature as human beings. So they decided that they have to balance the scales. Because Greens are poorly developed, they added more characterization for them that contradicts their book personas (abused child bride meow meow Alicent who is clueless about the plans that in the books she herself set in motion, for example) while simultaneously taking the characterization AWAY from team Black members. Rhaena and Baela barely have any lines, and though this may be the case of simple racism, it's pretty telling that they ignored the fact that Baela is tomboyish and has short hair. Rheanyra herself is so toned down that she does not resemble her book counterpart in the slightest, making her seem weak, stupid and undecided. Daemon straight up becomes a villain and a wife murderer rather than a throughoutly gray character (book!Rhea Royce unambiguously dies after a hawking accident while Daemon is still fighting in the Stepstones); that's because Team Black was in a desperate need for a corrupting influence in order to balance the scales. But some Greens aren't spared from this treatment either. Otto is made much worse than he was in the books, he straight up pimps out his teenage daughter so that he can elevate House Hightower. While Aegon is also a sex pest in the books, showing him openly rape a lowborn woman was a risky decision (as was the not very subtle implication that he rapes Helaena as well); not to mention that the child fighting pits come from Mushroom, whose entire gimmick is making shit up. So neither side is really spared from being villified and whitewashed, depending on whom we look. The showrunners were fully committed to making choosing sides a confusing process, making the cognitive dissonance of this story to be even stronger. This is why they aren't really biased for or against anyone.