Reminder That Supporting Religious LGBT People Should Include People Whose Faith...doesn't Align With

Reminder that supporting religious LGBT people should include people whose faith...doesn't align with your own beliefs? Otherwise...it's pointless lmao. You can recognize the problems and abuses and crimes of organized religion but still respect the individual people who make up the followings. Many religious LGBT people struggle to unpack their gender and sexuality within the context of their faith that is often misappropriated to condemn them. Then, after finally making peace with themselves and their faith, are faced with alienating atheistic/nihilistic rhetoric in the LGBT community.

The only person who gets to decide whether or not one's faith and gender/sexuality is contradictory is the individual. Not others of the same religion. Not others in the LGBT community. Not you.

The way Jungkook raises his eyebrows to Jimin 👀

You honour, I have questions!

Video edit: tw, @/stopkookminpls

ThE MiNi aNd MoNi! tHe MoNi aNd MiNi! tHe MiNi aNd MoNi sHoOoW!! 🎶

it’s mini and moni 🥺

I just wanted to share this.

Why do we always make an assumption (or lean towards it) that jikook are in gay glass closet? Why do we keep saying there's homophobia in SK? Why are we giving so much importance to the most pessimistic explaination for jikook hiding there relationship?

Like it could be simply they don't want to declare their love without being super sure about each other. They just don't want to make the statement out there that's all. It's not really a thing about glass closet, is what I feel sometimes. JK had literally pointed at JM for the question of what he desired after becoming an adult in what, 2015? If there's homophobia, they wouldn't have done that in a joking way as well. At that point their own relationship was in testing waters phase, and it was okay for JK to point out the obvious. In fact, I didn't see any kind of fear (homophobic) on their faces. There was panic (maybe about the obvious kookmin relationship) but it was all taken in light way and laughed out hard. Only Jhope seemed a lil worried, prolly because he understood the obvious and anticipated that viewers might too. But I could not decipher a homophobic panic/reaction.

And about SK being homophobic, I really don't think so. They have LGBT festivals, have gay Bars and probably have LGBT couples living there (at least the immigrants) or are we saying no international LGBT person buys a plot there and lives in SK (even the singles)? I really don't think it's big of a deal to the SK people if anyone's a LGBT but international fans make it look like a big deal. If homophobia exists, it exist in the same way it does in all other countries.

It's just simple, jikook themselves don't want to give a straight up statement of being in a relationship and zinx it (maybe). It's like those couples - one where they declare on social media of being in a relationship and other who don't. Jikook is the later but ironically they have used the social media to express love to each other or maybe not, who knows?

But I'm just saying, it's really not a big deal in any part of the world if you are LGBT couple. Especially not in developed countries like South Korea. It's just normal and it should be like that. (Laws can, will and have changed, so political agenda is just a temporary argument. I mean if there are LGBT rallies taking place in SK then definitely the laws will change in coming future).

We as third party make it look like a big deal, either by expressing too much support for the LGBT couples (who may really not seek for it) or by being antis/homophobic.

Please don't directly start with "no Anon no"... I've just shared a point of view and on other side of my brain there IS another POV as well. But I find it very funny on some of the blogs (I think you are the only one who doesn't start an answer like this) who straight away take it way too personal even though they themselves are just going by their instincts about any ship they believe in. I like your blog the most, maybe now I should go check out your about section if there's any 😊

Well damn, anon. You're gonna make me write an essay. Hope you're ready for it!

To start, thank you for the kind words and that you like it here. Hopefully you still think that even after I write an entire essay disagreeing with you. 😁💜 You are entitled to your POV, but hopefully you are open to other ones, backed by some research. I don't know if you are LGBTQ either... I don't want to assume, but the way this was written makes me think that you are not. Which is fine either way, but that factors into how we perceive things as well.

I'll also say that many K-army translators have talked about that what's your desire moment in 2015. I have a post up about that as well, I'll link it here... Jungkook was saying that he desired to go drinking with his hyungs. Which makes sense being that while he was underage, he spent most of his time watching his hyung have celebration champagne. He makes the same pop sound that Koreans use to signify drinking with his mouth as he pointed to first Jhope, then Jimin. Tae makes the same sound during the lyrics of Friends when he asks Jimin to get a drink with him later. Check out that post for more details on that moment please. I'll be separating paragraphs with pictures and gifs as I normally do in my essays here. Some will be related, most will not, enjoy them! Here we go!

To start, let's talk about homophobia in Korea. Now, I am not Korean, nor have I ever been to Korea, but this is all information readily out there for anyone who wishes to find it.

Homophobia is 100% still around, and still very active in South Korea. No, it is not the same as every other country. South Korea has no comprehensive anti discrimination laws to protect LGBTQ South Koreans. You can explore more about what anti discrimination laws protect LGBTQ people here in America by looking through and reading articles on the UCLA law website here. SK has absolutely zero laws to protect any LGBTQ citizens or even give them anything in terms of protection in just general life. Compared to similar countries like Japan or Taiwan, who both have some laws set up. In Taiwan, same sex couples are now allowed to legally get married. In Japan, they can't do that yet, but some cities allow and issue same sex coupes certificates, that can function as a non legally binding marriage agreement between couples, recognized by the city. SK has none of that.

In SK, homosexual sex isn't technically banned, but it IS illegal in the military. Meaning if while you serve, if a man is caught having relations with another man while serving, they can both be sentenced to years in jail. If you are known to be LGBTQ and then join the military (which, if any idol came out, they would automatically be known. There would be no chances of being out and then going back into the closet for the military for them) then you are that much more likely to be "watched" or bullied/harassed. Having superiors just looking for a reason to slap the gay label on you and get you out of service and into jail.

Openly known figures who are trans in SK have been victims of what we call "social murders" or harassed, bullied and torn apart until they take their own life. And no one is ever willing to persecute. People who come out as queer have been in fear of losing their jobs and/or being blacklisted. SK is very very conservative and many politicians are asked about stances and denied even the chance to run unless they are pretty staunchly anti-lgbtq. Prior to the presidency, President Moon was a Human Rights Lawyer in South Korea and stated publicly on Television that he was "against homosexuality and did not like it" in 2017. Almost everyone currently holding positions in power are firmly against placing any laws to legalize or protect LGBTQ individuals from discrimination in any form, including in marriage or job security or in hospitals when requiring medical attention. So currently, admitting to being gay opens you to the possibility of being refused work, refused to have your relationship recognized, refused medical treatment in emergency situations, higher chance of jail time while serving in the military and more. Things are very far from fair or equal. And things are very far from the same as any other LGBTQ couple would face in a different or more liberal/democratic country.

Now let's talk about the general public of Korea. It is honestly pretty evenly split, with more of the younger generation in favor of adopting anti discrimination laws. An attempt to pass a bill to protect LGBTQ citizens has been attempted 6 times, and has failed very quickly 6 times. That doesn't mean people stop fighting though. You don't ever stop fighting for equality. Ever. If you stop fighting, you will never get it. No one hands that over for free. America is still fighting for the queer community, and we ARE significantly better off here then they are in SK.

Part of that fight is by fighting to normalize things. You do that through festivals, through fighting to have a safe place for the queer community to be themselves in, such as gay bars and communities. But that still doesn't mean acceptance as whole. Things are SLOWLY starting to get better. Through things like pride parades, drag queen parades, gay bars, etc. These things just recently started popping up though around 2016 to 2018. That is really not that long ago. And many many cities/towns are still very open about their dislike of that and refuse to allow them. It's more the bigger cities that are doing them. Openly queer tourists tend to recieve less than popular reception, often even getting refused service from some places. There are resources out there for the community such as maps to queer friendly businesses, gay bars, humans rights groups, and HIV/AIDS awareness groups. The existence of these things and places are the bare minimum of progress though and doesn't change the general mindset of homophobia and discrimination that exists within the country as a whole and especially in the legislation and through their politics.

2018 was when Holland debuted. The first LGBTQ artist to debut as openly gay. And he had to fight tooth and nail to debut, having to do it as an independent artist because no label would allow him to be gay under their contract, saying he would HAVE to make sure he went back in the closet and stayed there before anyone knew who he was. Holland wanted to stay true to himself though. And even though it took years, he did finally debut in 2018 and has never hid his sexuality. This had lead to him having minimal in Korea though, most (not all) of his fanbase being international and barely being recognized in his home country. When he had a male actor in his music video instead of a female one (because he is gay) it was rated 19+ meaning it couldn't be broadcasted anywhere nationally, it could only be online and didn't really get any promotion. All because of him portraying a mlm relationship instead of a het one, it was branded as adult content and not suitable for children or families. TV show host Hong Seok-cheon came out in 2000 and was promptly fired from his job and blacklisted from other companies, so he couldn't find a new job to be back on TV anywhere else. Thus discouraging anyone else in the field from doing the same. "Coming Out" is not easy, its not receptive and it's got a very high potential to have serious social, health and financial ramifications.

Now this doesn't mean that there aren't queer people in SK, there definitely are. But just because they exist and fight for a fair life in their country, doesn't mean that the homophobia and discrimination disappear or that international fans are making it up when talking about this with their idols. And just because the homophobia exists, doesn't mean that queer people are going to stop being queer or stop loving who they love or stop fighting for that love. It doesn't stop them from wanting to express that love either, even if it's something that is hidden in plain sight. SK has heteronormativity to the extreme. Unless you explicitly say "I am Gay" or get caught engaging in homosexual sex in any form or making out with someone of the same sex... you will be assumed straight, really no matter what else you do. The majority of well known people and even regular citizens who are LGBTQ will use that to their advantage and use that glass closet to get to express their love without explicitly outing themselves.

As for Jikook, do you really think that if we are correct and they have been involved since 2016 that they wouldn't be sure about each other by this point? 5 years into a relationship? Most couples are either for sure serious at this point or have broken up. They utilize that glass closet and the shipping culture in kpop to showcase their affection safely in ways they otherwise couldn't because of how public their lives are.. Your statements that being an LGBTQ couple anywhere in the world isn't a big deal is idealistic and slightly ignorant. It diminishes the fight and fear that many queer people constantly face while working towards acceptance all of the time, all over the world.

I hope this makes sense and helped you understand the other side so to speak. I'll reiterate here that I'm not Korean and if any of my facts here need updating please comment or reblog. Please correct me if needed.

Hope everyone has a good day. 💜

I posted it in r/suddenlygay but thought it was appropriate here too #EthicalMemes

*feel free to not post if not allowed* so I came across a jikook video today on YouTube regarding the *ahem* "bite mark" aka *hickey* and I like reading the comments on those videos because they are positive and supportive but then I came across this comment and now I'm thinking is this what most of the fandom actually believes??

Did I not say it already? Imbeciles.

Like, do people not use their heads at all? Is their brain there for show only?

Or is it like an anti-gay switch they have in their brain, one that when you switch it on turns off the brain all together?

I just don't get it.

What do these idiots not get?

This isn't live content.

This is footage taken around a year ago. Only BTS members and staff were there when footage was taken.

No one knew about this hickey/bite/whatever you want to call it until it showed up in the MOTS ONE dvds.

There were umpteen ways to 'cover up' that mark - NONE were chosen, not by JK (the person of interest, the one that JM presumably - by these idiots - needs covering for), not by JM, not by BH staff/producers/editors.

There was a clear conscious decision to talk about this mark. Bot JM and JK decided to address it on film.

There was a clear conscious decision to add this footage to the dvd.

It's not about cutting it out (which it obviously wasn't). It's about deciding to add it in. There is literally tens if not hundreds of hours of footage from the preparation for the concerts. Choosing this footage over other footage, deciding to add this in for everyone to see, that is a huge decision, and people are not willing to see or understand this.

If indeed this was a cover up for a gf then why the f**k add this footage in? Just leave it out. It's been almost a year, no one noticed a hickey there until now. Why bring attention to something if you are trying to cover it up?

You have to be a damn idiot to think that is even a possibility -

"yeah, let's add the footage, that no one previously saw or new about, of JM & JK talking about the hickey JK got from his girlfriend and JM was covering up for him".

I'm just trying to think of the conversation these idiots think JM&JK had before:

JK- Hey man you gotta help me out here. Please, oh please, point out this hickey, that no one noticed yet, to everyone and tell them it's from you.

JM- For sure dude. Anything to help my young brother to cover up your night out with your girlfriend.

JK- Yeah, they haven't seen it or talked about it, so let's let them know it's there, but dude, you gotta cover for me here, because I don't want Jin or Tae to know I have a lady friend. They might get jealous or something.

JM - Hey man, what am I here for? For sure, they shouldn't know. Better they think we wilding together, right?

JK - So what are we gonna tell them?

JM- Yeah, we'll tell them I bit you. That should work right?

JK - Oh yeah, for sure. But we have to make it a believable story.

JM - I got your back mate. We'll tell them we were drinking and you picked me up bridal style, held me like a princess. They will buy that. That's a real bro thing to do, right?

JK - Oh, great story mate. But we have to add something. It's not enough.

JM - Ooh, I got an idea. We tell them you were holding me like a princess twirling me around and I had to bite you, like real hard, for a pretty long time, so you will stop turning around, because dude, you made me get all dizzy and yeah, that will work for sure.

JK - Excellent idea. I love it. Great story. Thanks for covering for me. You're my bestest ever brother ever. I would tell you I love you, but I never tell you I love you, so I won't.

The conversation with BH prior to adding this to the content would be even more ridiculous.

These people need to get something through their thick skulls:

There is no cover up here.

There is spilling the beans here!!! Consciously.