This Part Of Snape's Memories That He Gives To Harry Has Been Talked To Death, But Please Indulge Me

This part of Snape's memories that he gives to Harry has been talked to death, but please indulge me while I dig it back up because meta rests for no man. Emphases in the below excerpt are mine:

The corridor dissolved, and the scene took a little longer to reform: Harry seemed to fly through shifting shapes and colours until his surroundings solidified again and he stood on a hilltop, forlorn and cold in the darkness, the wind whistling through the branches of a few leafless trees. The adult Snape was panting, turning on the spot, his wand gripped tightly in his hand, waiting for something or for someone … his fear infected Harry, too, even though he knew that he could not be harmed, and he looked over his shoulder, wondering what it was that Snape was waiting for - Then a blinding, jagged jet of white light flew through the air: Harry thought of lightning, but Snape had dropped to his knees and his wand had flown out of his hand. ‘Don’t kill me!’ ‘That was not my intention.’ Any sound of Dumbledore Apparating had been drowned by the sound of the wind in the branches. He stood before Snape with his robes whipping around him, and his face was illuminated from below in the light cast by his wand. ‘Well, Severus? What message does Lord Voldemort have for me?' 'No - no message - I’m here on my own account!’ Snape was wringing his hands: he looked a little mad, with his straggling, black hair flying around him. ‘I - I come with a warning - no, a request - please -‘ Dumbledore flicked his wand. Though leaves and branches still flew through the night air around them, silence fell on the spot where he and Snape faced each other. ‘What request could a Death Eater make of me?’ ‘The - the prophecy … the prediction … Trelawney …’ ‘Ah, yes,’ said Dumbledore. ‘How much did you relay to Lord Voldemort?’ ‘Everything - everything I heard!’ said Snape. ‘That is why - it is for that reason - he thinks it means Lily Evans!’ ‘The prophecy did not refer to a woman,’ said Dumbledore. ‘It spoke of a boy born at the end of July -‘ ‘You know what I mean! He thinks it means her son, he is going to hunt her down - kill them all -‘ ‘If she means so much to you,’ said Dumbledore, ‘surely Lord Voldemort will spare her? Could you not ask for mercy for the mother, in exchange for the son?' 'I have - I have asked him -‘ ‘You disgust me,’ said Dumbledore, and Harry had never heard so much contempt in his voice. Snape seemed to shrink a little. ‘You do not care, then, about the deaths of her husband and child? They can die, as long as you have what you want?’ Snape said nothing, but merely looked up at Dumbledore. ‘Hide them all, then,’ he croaked. ‘Keep her - them - safe. Please.’ ‘And what will you give me in return, Severus?’ ‘In - in return?’ Snape gaped at Dumbledore, and Harry expected him to protest, but after a long moment he said, ‘Anything.'

Firstly what stands out here is that that Snape is the first one to refer to Harry and James and not just Lily, not Dumbledore. Snape says, "he is going to hunt her down - kill them all" showing that from the outset he was aware of not just Lily's fate, but her husband's and son's as well. His warning to Dumbledore takes them into consideration too, so from the outset we see that Dumbledore's assumptions are likely biased.

It's Dumbledore who assumes Snape is only thinking about Lily and doesn't care about her family. Although Snape is clearly more invested in Lily, focusing on her as Voldemort's target when he first speaks, he doesn't exhibit the selfish tunnel vision Dumbledore accuses him of. In fact, immediately after Snape says "them all" it's Dumbledore who changes the conversation to be specifically about Lily again. It's understandable that Snape is more concerned about Lily - she's the one he grew up with and was friends with, although it's likely Dumbledore doesn't know this, and may never learn the full extent of Snape's relationship to her, not even to the extent that he shares with Harry in his final memories. Snape refers to her as Lily Evans, not Potter, likely because he's so used to Evans being her name, having spent his whole childhood knowing her by it. His relationship with James was one of victim to abuser, so it's understandable that in this moment of panic and anxiety, James Potter isn't the most important thing in Snape's mind.

It's important to how the dynamics between Snape and Dumbledore play out in this scene that Snape is terrified. He's described as "panting, turning on the spot" and his fear is so palpable that even Harry feels it, though he knows he's safe and in a memory where he can't be harmed. Snape is coming into this conversation out of desperation, and trusting a man who didn't seem to care much when Snape's life was threatened by a fellow student in his fifth year at Hogwarts. To Snape, Dumbledore is the man who let Sirius' prank slide even though it could have killed him. Years after this scene on the hilltop, when Sirius escapes from Azkaban, he still asserts with viciousness that Snape deserved to die just for being too nosy about him and his friends. So to Snape, Dumbledore is the man who let that attempt on his life slide, and who invited Sirius and James - both his attackers, as far as he's concerned - to join the original Order of the Phoenix.

To Snape, Dumbledore is someone who doesn't care if he lives or dies, and who trusts and respects people who, as far as Snape is concerned, are violent and ruthless. This is compounded by the time he's spent in Voldemort's ranks, where's he's seen firsthand what people like that - violent and ruthless - are capable of. He likely sees Dumbledore as a leader who is just as volatile as Voldemort. Since we know that Voldemort doesn't believe in light and dark, good or bad, only in power and weakness, we can assume that Snape has taken on some of these ideas. His perspective may also be informed by his experiences with the bullying of the Marauders, who claimed to hate his proclivity for "dark" magic while perverting innocent spells like scourgify to enact violence (if you've ever tried to eat soap as a kid, you can imagine how vile that might be, let alone if it's blocking the airflow in your trachea). So in Snape's eyes, Dumbledore is probably not the light to Voldemort's dark, but a rival wizard fighting for power, and therefore someone he likely assumes will resort to similar brutality.

As far as Snape is concerned, Dumbledore could strike him dead just for being there. And yet he walks into this meeting, the arrangement of which is already a mortal risk, knowing he might not leave it alive. His first words to the man are, "Don't kill me." Even if he were there just to plead for Lily's life and not care about her family, his willingness to sacrifice himself to save her is already an act of bravery and frankly, I think it's a much more complicated moral dilemma whether one can choose who to give their own life for than Dumbledore's harsh condemnation makes it seem. Can we expect a man to risk his life for a friend? That's a question with a complex and multi-faceted variety of answers. Can we expect him to risk his life for an enemy, or an abuser? That's a long and complex answer with even fewer clear conclusions.

Dumbledore, meanwhile, sees himself in Snape. We see through the HP series, especially in this reveal at the end, how intertwined his relationship with Snape became. We learn that Dumbledore spends his life carrying the guilt and pain of his sister's death and his direct or indirect role in it. It's a pretty common reading of his and Snape's relationship that Dumbledore understood the depth and irrevocability of Snape's regret and guilt firsthand. Knowing all this, it's hard to read Dumbledore's judgment of Snape on the hilltop, and his immediately conclusion that Snape is only interested in protecting Lily - despite warning that Voldemort intends to "kill them all" - as being objective. I read it as Dumbledore projecting his own guilt and anxiety onto Snape in that moment. In addition, as @said-snape-softly pointed out to me very aptly, the prophecy was overheard in the Hog's Head, which is run by Dumbledore's brother Aberforth, adding onto Dumbledore's personal baggage coming out in this moment. Dumbledore's own feelings are loaded and he makes assumptions about Snape's goals and motivations out of his own anxieties about himself.

And Snape lets him. He's been under Voldemort's thumb, a murderous sociopath who throws unforgivable curses around like most people sneeze. He's desperate and terrified and isn't going to argue with Dumbledore. Dumbledore says, "Could you not ask for mercy for the mother, in exchange for the son?" and Snape replies that he has. But as we've seen already, Snape has included Harry and James and Dumbledore - as the person with all the power and leverage in this conversation - has changed the subject to focus on Lily. Snape is in no position to argue about semantics in this moment. The same way he brought up Harry and James to Dumbledore only for them to be ignored by him, he may have brought them up to Voldemort only for him to react similarly.

Given what we know about Voldemort as a character, once he has decided to go after Harry and not Neville, there's no changing his mind. Any effort made to sway him would fail and only add the asker to the pile of bodies Voldemort leaves in his wake. James and Lily are both targets, because canonically they have defied Voldemort three times and are members of the Order fighting against his cause. Snape may be able to beg for Lily's life - and we see that Voldemort assumed it was because he "desired her" - but James' is almost impossible to argue on behalf of, even if he wanted to. Snape can't claim any intimate connection even if it's a lie, because James is in the Order and enough of an enemy to Voldemort that he was targeted on the basis of Trelawney's prophecy. The fact that Snape went to Dumbledore means that he is asking for Lily's whole family to be protected, not just her. It's not just extra insurance in case Voldemort decides to kill everyone in his path to Harry, it's an effort to save Lily and the people who matter to her as well. Snape knows that Dumbledore will give them a fighting chance where Voldemort won't.

When Dumbledore accuses Snape of not caring if they live or die, Snape says nothing. He doesn't confirm or deny this accusation, and as we've seen, he's terrified and Dumbledore has already twisted his words and judged him, so it's reasonable to assume Snape is worried that if he says the wrong thing, all will be lost. Dumbledore could have just accepted Snape's warning and told him to leave. He could have accepted the warning and asked why Snape gave it. Instead, he jumped to conclusions and threw them in Snape's face, a frightened man risking his life who learned quickly in this conversation that Dumbledore hates him and is judging him, and who learned while still at school that Dumbledore doesn't value his perspective or even his very life.

And then Dumbledore asks him, "what will you give me in return?" Snape is caught off guard, because as far as he knew, he was already doing Dumbledore a favor. He's offering him free information that will enable him to protect two of his Order members when the Death Eaters already outnumber them twenty to one, as Lupin said in OOtP. Again, Snape is risking his life - if Voldemort finds out he had this conversation with Dumbledore, he's definitely dead. As far as he knows, Dumbledore could kill him, as his opening sentence in this scene shows. And yet, Dumbledore turns this around - like the tactical, manipulative military leader he is - and posits the situation as being one in which he's doing Snape a favor by heeding his warning. As if he were choosing to protect Lily and her family for Snape's sake, not his own, and not theirs. Many years later, Dumbledore will ask Snape how many people he's watched die, and Snape answers, "lately only those I could not save." But in this moment on the hilltop, that's already what Snape is doing.

/!\ Most reblogs are going to be long and this might be an issue if you're interested in the content, but don't want to have an unreadable dash and just want to save something for later reading, for instance.

Therefore, most reblogs are tagged #long post. You can also go to your dashboard settings and toggle "shorten long posts" !

This blog aims at reblogging Severus Snape-related meta posts. It's not here for discussion, debate, etc with the blog owner; it just seems like a convenient way to save those posts all in one place. Feel free to send post suggestions; some may or may not already be in the queue but i can't hurt! More discussion can be found in the replies and reblogs of a specific post, so check out the notes as well if yo'ure interested.

The goal is not to reblog art, though some might be reblogged if it's accompanied by meta. Ship-related meta may crop up at some point, but it's not the specific focus of this blog. No specific ships are endorsed or rejected.

JKR, however, is definitely not endorsed.

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Okay, so I know that almost everyone in the fandom have somehow collectively agreed that Snape's doe patronus is due to his love for Lily, but I actually went into a deep dive about it and here's what I found :

The Symbolism of a Doe

Instincts and Intuition

Speed and Agility

Grace and Gentleness

Devotion

If we look at this list, we see many qualities that Severus Snape already possesses.

Instincts and Intuition are most likely two of the most forefront qualities that we see Severus possessing frequently. You need good intuition to do something as dangerous as experimental potions and spells at the tender age of 15, and a hell of a lot of instinct to not get yourself killed in the process

Speed and Agility are also qualities that Severus Snape possesses, given how quickly and efficiently he could face and lie to one, if not both, of the most powerful wizards in existence at the current time

Grace and Gentleness are qualities that we may not see in Snape often, but we catch very good glimpses of his gentleness during his young age where he was considerate enough to teach Lily, a muggleborn witch, about the wizarding world with an abundance of patience and i'm sure we're all aware of Snape's grace in the way he walks and talks. This isn't meant to say that Severus is by far the most gentle of people, but it's present and it's there, despite it's lack of nurturing.

Devotion is most likely one of the qualities Severus Snape is most known for, such as his devotion to Lily despite their ended friendship, and the devotion he has to those he considers his, as well as "those he could not save"

All I'm saying is that Severus Snape has every right to claim that patronus as his and his alone, because it is a definition of all his deepest qualities. Albus Dumbledore often had a way of viewing everything through a tinted lense of emotion when it came to Severus, given how and why he was devoted to the cause in the first place was Lily ( which he used quite often to emotionally blackmail him ), and maybe Severus himself truly believed that the patronus was because of his devotion to Lily ( or he might have been lying out of his ass about it, which isn't too far fetched ), but I like to think his doe patronus was because of his devotion to his purest form of else.

@halfblood-princes-crown @somesnapefans @moonlightdancer26

I need your thoughts

/!\ Most reblogs are going to be long and this might be an issue if you're interested in the content, but don't want to have an unreadable dash and just want to save something for later reading, for instance. Therefore, most reblogs are tagged #long post. You can also go to your dashboard settings and toggle "shorten long posts" !

This blog aims at reblogging Severus Snape-related meta posts. It's not here for discussion, debate, etc with the blog owner; it just seems like a convenient way to save those posts all in one place. Feel free to send post suggestions; some may or may not already be in the queue but i can't hurt! More discussion can be found in the replies and reblogs of a specific post, so check out the notes as well if yo'ure interested.

The goal is not to reblog art, though some might be reblogged if it's accompanied by meta. Ship-related meta may crop up at some point, but it's not the specific focus of this blog. No specific ships are endorsed or rejected.

JKR, however, is definitely not endorsed.

Avatar & header credit: Photo by Eleanor Brooke on Unsplash Photo by Jan Ranft on Unsplash

/!\ Most reblogs are going to be long and this might be an issue if you're interested in the content, but don't want to have an unreadable dash and just want to save something for later reading, for instance.Therefore, most reblogs are tagged #long post. You can also go to your dashboard settings and toggle "shorten long posts" !

This blog aims at reblogging Severus Snape-related meta posts. It's not here for discussion, debate, etc with the blog owner; it just seems like a convenient way to save those posts all in one place. Feel free to send post suggestions; some may or may not already be in the queue but i can't hurt! More discussion can be found in the replies and reblogs of a specific post, so check out the notes as well if yo'ure interested.

The goal is not to reblog art, though some might be reblogged if it's accompanied by meta. Ship-related meta may crop up at some point, but it's not the specific focus of this blog. No specific ships are endorsed or rejected.

JKR, however, is definitely not endorsed.

Avatar & header credit:

Photo by Eleanor Brooke on Unsplash Photo by Jan Ranft on Unsplash

I was trying to fall asleep last night at 12 AM and I swear I was struggling bc I kept thinking about how right before dying, Snape- in trying to explain why Harry should trust him to go to the forest- gave Harry the memories that showed his entire process of being indoctrinated into a cult from childhood and his process of getting out of it. And I don't even think he did it on purpose.

It's as if he was like- "Here are the memories that will explain my life" and they happened to also chronicle his whole dang process. I mean, he even gave Harry that memory where he claims that he thought using Dark Magic was funny. His indoctrination was fking included and none of it paints him in a good light. And yet.

If those are the memories that spilled out of him on purpose- like his life literally flashing before his eyes- it absolutely stuns me that all the memories he immediately thought of AND the ones he vulnerably gave Harry (with no choice, mind you) were the ones that revealed that he was a kid indoctrinated into a cult, was actually into it, and still got out of his own accord (idc why, he got OUT).

And for some reason- even though he actually got out- I get the sense that from how badly he's shown in those memories, he's still angry at himself for getting into the Death Eaters in the first place. His process of getting out is pathetic and sad and ugly because that's what happened and somehow, he doesn't choose to show it any other way (he's dying ofc but still). It's even in character for him to just...show things as they are or how he thinks things just are (a flaw at times).

But that memory of Dumbledore implying that perhaps Snape should have been in Gryffindor stuck with him despite how damn ugly and selfish his act of leaving the Death Eaters looks. And it's almost like he never really knew how to deal with that implication even while dying.

I am not a fan of the name 'Albus Severus'. But...it's like Harry saw Snape's whole process when Snape himself couldn't or did and was unable to forgive himself for being indoctrinated in the first place. Harry, who spent his whole life hearing that once a wizard goes Dark, they don't care about anything or have no chance of coming back.

It does say something to me that Harry seems to have forgiven Snape for things Snape could never forgive himself for.