I Played SMTVV And Then SMTIV Duology, And Thinking Back On SMTV I Am So Much Less Engaged With Its World

I played SMTVV and then SMTIV duology, and thinking back on SMTV I am so much less engaged with its world because outside of D'aat it's just modern day Japan again. Like yeah there's supernatural forces and the apocalypse is happening but the default is the masquerade. Even the stuff like the prime minister of Japan is Tsukuyomi you can't do much with because all that knowledge is limited to inside Bethel.

Just a normal amount of fantasy village razing, it's great bonding experience. They could kiss maybe idk.

神祗的庐山真面目

//Forms and Names

I have always wanted to write three After God essays!

The first one came at the tail end of Chapter 58 discussing Ahu’az and Yako.

The second one was something I’ve always wanted to do—an interesting mental framework to analyze Tokinaga Sachiyuki.

Now comes the third essay, ironically, the first After God ramble formulated in our Discord conversation. Hahaha. The last essay in this series is the actual first one that started it all, @orange-peel-candy!

This essay concerns my speculations and hypotheses regarding the gods’ forms... and The Man Stronger Than the Gods.

Be warned: spoilers abound up till at least Chapter 58 (a.k.a. the last chapter I read!). It's also a very, very long read.

What Do We Know So Far?

I am a two-bit detective-scientist wannabe. Before we start to speculate, we should lay out some of the facts that we already know. I hope I didn’t get any facts wrong because I’m mostly going off from memory, which is pretty corrupted from things like work, daily life, Buddhist Philosophy (yes), science, Neon Genesis Evangelion (I’m disappointed in myself for this), the likes:

Chapter 1

Out of the four, we know three gods’ animal forms.

Vollof is a rabbit,

Ahu’az is a rooster (yes, calling it Chicken God was me being an ass),

Orokapi is a snake.

Did ya notice something?

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Chinese Twelve Zodiac – the Calendar

Wikipedia

The zodiacs are used by the Chinese as a calendar system, which assigns an animal to a respective year following a twelve-year cycle [1]. The sequence  goes like this:

鼠、牛、虎、兔、龙、蛇、马、羊、猴、鸡、狗、猪

Rat, Ox, Tiger, Rabbit, Dragon, Snake, Horse, Goat, Monkey, Rooster, Dog, Boar

Vollof, Orokapi, and Ahu’az are part of this group.

So, my bold first hypothesis is that—

All of the IPOs introduced to us will be animals from the Twelve Zodiac.

I assign a modest 78% confidence level toward this hypothesis since all three we have known have come from this group.

From here, let's go through these queries:

Are the other gods also animals from the Chinese Zodiac?

Where does Allula fit in this, if the Chinese Zodiac theory is true?

Is there anything about the Chinese Zodiac, such as myths and philosophy, that may serve as story hints for certain characters in the story?

Particularly, is there some basis to make a hypothesis regarding The Man Stronger Than the Gods?

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Query #1: Are the other gods also animals from the Chinese Zodiac?

Well, we don’t actually have that many IPOs teased other than our 4 known gods. The only one we have, here, is the furry paw. Let’s look at it again:

Chapter 1.

Hypothesis 1: This is a tiger. [50% confident;  0.85 x 0.78 = 0.663; 39% overall confidence]

Hypothesis 2: This is a dog. [50%; 39% overall]

Hypothesis 3: This is an animal not part of the Zodiacs [22% overall]

Both a cat and a dog have 5 toes in their front legs (and 4 in their hind legs). But a cat’s dew claw is much closer to its other claws. A dog’s paw, meanwhile, has the dew claw being much farther away [2].

From Hepper.com.

This mystery IPO’s claws are certainly close to each other—including its dew claw. That makes it resemble a tiger’s claw more (Hypothesis 1, or H1). Another piece of circumstantial evidence is that this IPO was walking past a street filled with stray cats. If the IPO was a dog, I don’t think these cats could be this chill.

Nonetheless, H2 has good grounds, too. For what little we see here, the paw doesn’t show a tiger’s typical strip, and the tail is a little too bushy for a tiger. There’s also the fact that these claws aren’t protracted despite not being required during a stroll. A dog’s claw doesn’t protract [2]!

We can even explain away the cats’ relative calmness by positing the IPO as invisible to their eyes, kinda like how they can’t be captured by cameras.

Nonetheless, H1 and H2 have strong enough standing. Whether a tiger or a dog, neither conclusion will counter our zodiac hypothesis.

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There is, of course, a 22% confident hypothesis where the IPOs do not actually follow the Zodiac convention.

This opens up a lot more options for our mysterious IPO—a wolf, a lion, a cat, etc.

There is also this little panel you’ve helpfully pointed out:

Chapter 44.

There appears to be a fish IPO in this panel, which is not part of the Twelve Zodiacs. The only true aquatic animal among them is the dragon, or龍 (long)。

If the fact that a Long is actually an aquatic animal is new information to you, I’ve once written quite a bit about it in (yes, I know. Why does this bro yap so much?) an essay for a good friend explaining the origin of the dragon’s orb. Long story short: dragons are seen as the kings of the ocean and storm.

There isn’t much hard evidence to refute this “fish” IPO. One suggestion (thanks to you) is that maybe the “fish” IPO is just an NPC and that all major IPOs will be of the zodiacs. Another suggestion I can think of is that, similar to how Vollof turned from a “bear” to a “rabbit” in execution [3], the “fish” IPO might be revised to another animal among the zodiac gang in the future.

One last thing to add to the Zodiac theory in general: apparently, there’s already another IPO planned with horns [3].

Three Zodiac animals with horns have yet to be featured: the Ox, the Goat, and the Dragon. It’s another piece of circumstantial evidence, but all of it together still builds a pretty good case for the Zodiac animal hypothesis.

The way to falsify this hypothesis is to wait for more IPOs to be revealed. Mr. Furry Paw, Mr. Horn, and, potentially, Mr. Fish—all three can prove or disprove this hypothesis.

For the rest of this essay, let’s consider the Zodiac Theory true.

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Query #2: What Could Have Been Allula’s Animal Form?

Allula’s floral form is actually a pretty interesting symbolic choice, which you noticed. She’s a poppy flower, right? The source of opium—one of the royalties of addictive narcotics.  A really apt form for the god who introduced drugs to everyone else.

Nonetheless, this did not mean Allula had always been a talking one-eyed flower. She could very well have been an animal just like her other brethren.

According to Orokapi, Allula’s current form is a grotesque chimera of fleshes borne from the gods she had eaten. This tells us that she didn’t originally look like hair that’s been stuck in a pipe leading out from a bathroom hole.

Chapter 50

What are the animals among the twelve zodiacs that could possibly be Allula’s original bestial form?

H1- Predators: Tiger and Dog. These were the two possible candidates for Mr. Furry Paw as discussed in Query #1. Could Mr. Furry Paw be Allula?

I don’t think so. Allula has been banished into reincarnating as Waka for quite some years, and when that happened, she’d already been losing her original form and gaining her chimeric look. Hence, it’s likelier that Mr. Furry Paw was another IPO!

Then what about omnivores, like Rat, Boar and Monkey (H2)? This, to me, seems more possible. Rats are certainly seen as repulsive and disgusting eaters. Monkeys are a bit harder to square since their “stereotypical” trait(s) in the common interpretation of the 12 Zodiacs don’t really fit Allula all that much, barring intelligence (more on that later).

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My highest confidence level (about 50%) is on the Boar.

Boars are commonly seen as animals representing gluttony in East Asian culture. They technically eat anything edible and non-poisonous.

Here’s the thing: boars can develop a taste for raw meat [4]. And they have no problem eating human flesh or pig flesh! The most common incident of cannibalism in pigs is when the sows and gilts eat piglets, called “savaging.”[5].

Now, Allula is no mother, but she’s the only known god who eats other gods. An opportunistic eater with no repulsion toward the flesh of its kind. A cannibal.

A piece of circumstantial evidence: The Boar is seen as the intelligent animal among the Twelve Zodiacs, often similarly to how one envisions the Monkey. Allula has, in a lot of interactions, demonstrated frightening analytical capacity and intellect. She often uses it as a means of manipulation:

towards the other gods, she used drugs—something they had no idea about and became addicted to.

toward Shion, she managed to charm the girl with the combination of her eyes… and more importantly, her words.

She best displayed her intellect in Chapters 54 and 55. There, she worked out what she believed Tokinagawas up to accurately enough that he was reduced to near nervous breakdown. That’s the sort of skill in choosing conversation responses I wish I have, so I can make the NPCs in my game cry like a bitch.

Conclusion? I think Allula being the Boar seems far more likely if the Zodiac hypothesis is true. 

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Query #3: Is There Anything About the Zodiac Hypothesis That Could Be Used to Understand After God’s Worldbuilding + Gods etc.?

The Twelve Zodiac was used as a calendar system with a twelve-year cycle. In other words, the zodiacs are associated with time [1]. Besides that, it’s cyclic. The Year of the Rat (first among the zodiac) follows the Year of the Boar (last among the zodiac) [1].

Both of these are already related to a character who isn’t said to be an IPO but is nonetheless completely intertwined with them—our boy Tokinaga Sachiyuki. Creating time loops to bring himself to his desired development is a known ability of his, isn’t it?

Keep that in mind.

Now, I’m gonna introduce to you Taoist/folk Chinese deities associated with the Twelve Zodiac:

Tai Sui, 太岁 (literally “great year” or “great age”).

Like plenty of Taoist gods, these deities originated as stars observed by Chinese astrologers—in this case, they’re the stars opposite Jupiter and are also in a 12-year orbital cycle [6].

Tai Sui are considered generals taking orders from the Jade Emperor (the lord of the heaven in Chinese mythology). They are the zodiac animals’ masters. Throughout dynasties, the Tai Suis’ numbers have multiplied into sixty of them, each mastering one animal while corresponding to one of the Five Chinese Elements (五行: fire, earth, metal, water, wood). There is, however, one Tai Sui General who is the boss of all Tai Sui; this one has no governing year [6].

That’s, of course, the Chinese’s side of things. In Japan, Tai Sui is consolidated into a single deity [6], in the form of Tai Sui’s full title, 太歳星君 (“Lord of the Tai Sui Star”)。

Tai Sui is so important and revered in folk divination that people whose zodiac animal sign is the same as the deity are said to be “clashing with Tai Sui” (犯太岁). Take the Year 2024 as an example: this is the Year of the Wood Dragon, so it is governed by the Wooden Dragon Tai Sui. Everyone whose animal sign is the dragon (no matter the elements) is therefore “clashing” with him, and superstitions dictate they appease the god because their overall luck has already tanked by the virtue of this clash.

What does this tell us?

It tells us that a Tai Sui is “stronger than these zodiac animals.”

Tai Sui, the god of time. Not linear time either—cyclic time. Who does this remind you?

More circumstantial evidence for your consideration:

The word associated with “time” is in Tokinaga’s name, 時永。 This is similar to how the word related to “time” is also found in Tai Sui, 太岁。 The difference, however, is that 時 technically means “hour,” while 岁 means “year.”

The pronunciation for 太歳星君 is Taisai Seikun ( たいさいせいくん) in Japanese [7]. The initials are T.S., which matches Tokinaga Sachiyuki. You can almost wonder if Tokinaga’s name is chosen to mirror the name of this calendric time lord.

You might think this is the end of Query #3, but there’s a speculation I want to put forward based on the Tai Sui Hypothesis.

“We Have Seen the Man Stronger than the Gods”

Chapter 49

Allula claimed that she and the other gods had seen The Man Stronger Than the Gods/God Killer before—a long, long time ago. 700 million years ago, to be exact.

Here’s the thing: Tokinaga is only 28 years old.

The big upheaval of the IPOs from the North Pole happened 30 years ago. Hell, modern Homo sapiens evolved from merely 300,000 years ago. My math ain’t no Olympiad level but methinks this math doesn’t check out.

That’s not all. Tokinaga’s power comes at the cost of body degeneration. How did this blud—whose body started to look like lichens-ate-it just by rewinding time a little to his last save point—manage to survive this long?

Another odd thing: Allula somehow does not recognize the God Killer when she sees one. Why? Why doesn’t she recognize what could possibly be the only Homo Sapien on the planet at the time? If that man was Tokinaga, wouldn’t she recognize him right now?

Tokinaga’s response to Allula’s assertion is also grounds for intrigue. He was there for a negotiation; the odds of him feigning ignorance were not too high. So why was his response “What are you talking about?” instead of knowing silence?

Why did he react as though he was stunned to hear Allula’s revelation? Was the God Killer she mentioned somehow… not him?

Granted, there are many plausible reasons to explain these odd points. We don’t know the full scope of Tokinaga’s powers. Maybe he could erase someone’s memories if he wanna (sure. Sure. Sure. Sure. Sure. Doubt. Doubt. Doubt. Doubt. Doubt). We don’t yet know what parts of the power system, such as reincarnation, are like in this story.

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God Killer (singular?)

If Tokinaga’s aspect as the time-bending God Killer is inspired by Tai Sui, then the speculation I want to offer is that there is more than one God Killer across history.

Japan etc. and even common Chinese folks might think that there’s only ever one Tai Sui Lao Jun/Taisei Seikun, but there has always been more than one Tai Sui in the canonical myth. Tokinaga could very well just be one God Killer who exists at this time. The one Allula and fam saw back then was another God Killer.

I originally wanted to make a joke that this God Killer was from the Australopithecus genus—the hominids before our Homo genus. The problem is… the earliest Australopithecus hominin existed 4.2 million years ago. That’s not even close to Allula’s “700 million years ago.” Bro, who the fuck did these gods see? Fucking Xenu?

The nature of God Killer(s) is largely shrouded in mystery by this point in the manga, so again, any reasonable guess is as good as another. I’m not even particularly confident in this speculation, but it does lend nicely to our last query…

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Query #4: What speculations regarding “The Man Stronger Than The Gods” can we make from this?

Although this is the last query and hypothesis in this essay, it is actually the first I’ve ever made since reading After God months ago.

The thing that kickstarted this was in his name.

As someone who’s immersed in Thai and Buddhist-Hindu myths, his name was eye-catching for featuring the word “naga.”

Britannica. This is an artistic depiction of Nāga in Thai style.

Nagas are, briefly, divine or semi-divine beings—sometimes half-human and half-serpents, sometimes basically sea serpents [8]. In common translations as well as general understanding, however, nagas are understood as dragons.

They are often associated with bodies of water.

The origin of the nagas is closely related to snakes. In Sanskrit, nāga is one of the many terms for “snake,” and the earliest concept of nagas is cobra-like [8].

These three key points are bolded because these traits are shared with the East Asian concept of the Long (龙) as well. According to Yuan Jing, a Chinese archaeologist researcher, the origin of Chinese dragons (which other East Asian long are derivative from) likely evolved from a snake or a crocodile [9]. For example, artifacts recovered from the Taosi Archeological Site (陶寺) in Shanxi showed Long that pretty much just looked like snakes [9]. This connection is also speculated to be why “dragon” is positioned next to “snake” in the Twelve Zodiac. The dragon and the snake are kin.

And who, my dudes, is Tokinaga’s dearest friend?

Even an East Asian dragon’s “connection to the body of water” can be seen in Tokinaga’s character traits—chiefly, his avoidance of bathtubs and his strange discomfort with showers. You might correctly point out that it’s odd for him to be written as repulsed by a “body of water” if he’s indeed related to East Asian dragons, but a big theme of Tokinaga’s personality intrigue is the fact that he’s in discordance to himself. His self-hatred originates from his inability to resolve what he detests and what his “nature” desires. He’s like an Asian dragon who hates water.

Oh, but there’s more to this hypothesis. Much, much more.

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Fake Ancient Scripts That Repel Evil

Chapter 31

Well, the characters on his loincloth-ass mask seem pretty likely to be 日本, “Japan,” to me. You're not even trying, Orokapi.

We know that the eyepatch hides Tokinaga’s empty left eye socket where some of the deterioration is found. So what’s the character on his eyepatch?

The eyepatch, interestingly, was framed nicely within the last panel as Tokinaga dropped one of the earliest hints about the God Killer.

I’m gonna go and guess it’s based on “竜”, or “dragon.”

It’s that, or 龟, “tortoise/turtle”.

How do we decide which of these is likelier? Well, show us the hand!

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It's not a hand, you dumbass. It's a claw.

Chapter 42

This chapter is the first time when we get to see the claw that haunts Tokinaga. It features really sharp nails and scaly skin. Below are a tortoise’s nails.

Animals.net

The nails in a tortoise appeared to be closer to each other that our mysterious claw up there. The claw is also far leaner in the panel, compared to the more bulging (thicc?) look of a tortoise’s foot.

Based on this, I think the odds that the claw belongs to a tortoise are lower than our alternative: the East Asian Long/dragon. But do we have more proof?

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How many nails does a Long have?

Five claws may seem ubiquitous in more modern drawings of the dragon, but it’s actually a relatively new invention during the Qing Dynasty [10]. In truth, for the longest time, the dragon has had three claws—and the dragon types that were most likely introduced to Japan are the three-clawed and four-clawed Golden Dragon (金龙), both popular during the Tang Dynasty.

Baidu. Tang Dynasty dragon-adorned mirror. Try to locate its claws.

Now, we can combine both knowledge.

Tokinaga claimed that these fake scripts are used to repel evil.

One of them is found in his eyepatch. A writing that may very well be 竜.

What is this eyepatch guarding against?

The thing that is frequently drawn to be close to his left eye is the mysterious claw. A claw that can be reasonably suspected to belong to a dragon.

Does that eyepatch repel... or seal a dragon?

Chapter 55

No matter what it could be, it still points to one general direction:

Tokinaga has a lot of connections to a dragon.

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Verdict

This is a combination of all of our hypotheses to form a pretty damn bold speculation about The Man Stronger than The Gods.

Tokinaga may be a God Killer, not the God Killer. He has aspects influenced by Tai Sui and dragons—a mythical beast that is also one of the Twelve Zodiac.

We already learned that there are actually a lot of Tai Sui deities, with 5 governing a single animal of different elements. So, if the hypothesis is that the God Killer is not one person but many people...

Is Tokinaga a dragon-related God Killer? Similar to a Dragon Tai Sui?

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Last words

This has been an insanely long read, but it covers a lot of the speculations and theories I have had about After God thus far. There’s a lot we don’t know yet, and it’s always likely that I get a lot of stuff wrong. I have a specific image for that occasion:

Ajin.

Nonetheless, it’s been really fun trying to Allula out the story with what we have so far, and I’ll be really stoked if even a small part of all of this comes true!

Let me know what you think in the comments or tags! I love responses and add-ons; I read ‘em all! They make my day.

Thank You For Reading My Ramble! I hope this has been an eye-opening thrill for you!

P.S. To people who recently followed me for After God content: welcome to my garden! I do have to tell ya—I’m not very prolific an essayist due to my general lack of time. I also write essays for a lot of other things too—this is the last of my After God Three Part essays, and I haven’t had any planned after this. So, yea! Please enjoy what I've cooked for now! Ahahaha.

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Citations:

Chinese zodiac. In Wikipedia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_zodiac

Cat Paw vs. Dog Paw: Vet-Verified Differences (With Pictures). Hepper. https://www.hepper.com/cat-paw-vs-dog-paw/

Inspiration for Vollof (summarized). On Tumblr (Thanks, Ko!). https://www.tumblr.com/kossanctuary/756356794456113153/inspiration-for-vollof-summarized?source=share

What Pigs Can (And Can’t) Eat: Ultimate Guide. Savvy Farm Life. https://savvyfarmlife.com/what-pigs-can-and-cant-eat/

Normal and Abnormal Behaviors of Swine Under Production Conditions. Pork Information Gateway. https://porkgateway.org/resource/normal-and-abnormal-behaviors-of-swine-under-productions-conditions/

Tai Sui. In Wikipedia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tai_Sui

太歳星君. In Wikipedia. [In Japanese] https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%A4%AA%E6%AD%B3%E6%98%9F%E5%90%9B

Nāga. In Wikipedia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N%C4%81ga

世间动物千千万，为何是它们被选入十二生肖？《澎湃》。[In Chinese] https://www.thepaper.cn/newsDetail_forward_24694111

中国古代的龙，到底有几个爪趾？《百度·文艺时光》。[In Chinese] 中国古代的龙，到底有几个爪趾？ (baidu.com)

Asabeau

Asahi: Guess what Miss Isabeau? Nanashi told me French people used to greet each other by kissing cheeks!

Isabeau: Really?

Asahi: Mhm, like this.

*smooch* *smooch*

Isabeau: ...!

Asahi: Miss Isabeau, what's wrong? Why are you so red? Miss Isabeau?

My poor Flynn in SMTIV was very lost. Now, an argument could be made that all Flynns are bad at getting from point A to point B, because what the hell was that map SMTIV.

But my Flynn was very lost. I had to look online for guides on how to get from place to place, and it still took an hour to find Shinjuku.

Infernal Tokyo was the worst. The roads were connected differently, and suddenly all that hard fought knowledge of how to get from place to place was gone. Demonoid Akira would go "More west than this!", and Flynn would make a convoluted circle just to check the same place again, and Akira would go "More west!"

Asahi has this really cute, hero worship senpai-kouhai thing going on with Isabeau. She saved her life, she's so strong and cool, Asahi wants to know more about her, Miss Isabeau! Great potential for Asahi and Isabeau to go off on their own with Asahi nursing a crush. Make them share a tent and have Isabeau gush to Asahi about Rose of Versailles. "But I think you're just as amazing Miss Isabeau, can't you see how you've inspired me?" Bedrolls right next to each other, leaning in close so they can read under the same lamp, Isabeau's heart thumps as she realizes how close Asahi has gotten...

Asahi's a gungho go-getter kind of girl, does she have what it takes to sweep Miss Isabeau off her feet?