I Think Soichiro Had Survived To The Warehouse Scene. I Think Although Being Devastated By Finding Out

I think Soichiro had survived to the warehouse scene. I think although being devastated by finding out his son is Kira, he wouldn't condone Matsuda shooting Light. I think he would intervene and get Light some medical help. Because even though his son is a mass-murderer, he's still his son. And he can't just sit back and watch. That would've been interesting to see. Although my heart hurts for his mother and sister when they find out. 😥 Light why?

Actually I kind of doubt the warehouse scene would have happened if Soichiro had survived because Light wouldn’t have attempted murdering his dad. Light keeps the entire task force alive for as long as he does because he specifically doesn’t want to kill his dad as well. For that matter, I’m also pretty damn sure this whole “seduce Takada” plan would have never taken off if his dad were around either and second arc as a whole would have looked very different. 

Buuuut if we’re going to disregard Light’s characterization and assume the warehouse proceeds as planned, I also really doubt Matsuda would have shot Light if Papa Yagami were right there. How could he? Like sure, he feels betrayed and all, but anything he feels would be nothing compared to what Soichiro would have felt and there’s really no way Matsuda could squeeze himself in there with his own comparatively tiny personal angst. 

In that scenario, it’d be the SPK who shoot Light, and the SPK wouldn’t have gone nuts with their guns like Matsuda does so there’d be a very good chance that Light could have been stabilized and received medical attention. Even Ryuk might have kept Light alive a liiiittle longer just so he could watch the drama between Light and his dad. But then again, maybe not. I don’t think Papa would begrudge the SPK for trying to stop Light from writing by shooting him nonlethally and once, but that’s with retrospect. In the moment, all he’d see is his child suffering and in pain and Soichiro is demonstrably irrational when it comes to his kids. He fails completely to be an unbiased police officer when it comes to Light and Sayu and the idea that Soichiro would just watch someone gunning down his kids is totally unbelievable. I’m pretty sure Papa would put himself between Light and his shooter, swat the note scrap out of Light’s hands and plead with him to stop. He wants answers, not a dead son. 

Light gives everyone an explanation as to why he believes he’s in the right prior to getting shot, and I find it very difficult to see how Papa would miss the parallels between what Light is saying and what he taught Light personally about the importance of justice and self sacrifice. That’s the part that has to hurt even more because he, of all people, would be inclined to view Light as a good person who was just deeply misguided. Soichiro of all people would not give up on his son, and wouldn’t see him as an irredeemably evil human being.  He’d want Light to turn himself in peacefully and atone for what he’s done. The actual warehouse scene would have eviscerated Soichiro emotionally. 

What do you think of Rin and her dynamics with Kakashi and Obito?

There is this view that Rin’s only existence is to be a source of Trauma for Obito and have a crush on Kakashi... While Yeah, I agree with it if I just look at her profile alone.

But hey, Can we look sideward and ask ‘What’s the purpose of Iruka other than Acknowledging Naruto in Chapter 1, Worrying about Naruto during Chunin Exams, buying him Ramen here and there, Consoling him after Jiraiya’s death and advising him to come alive after fighting the War...???’ 

I totally summed up Iruka’s character in few lines which can be counted within our fingers. But somehow, I never saw anyone mocking Naruto for saying Iruka as his important person. I am pretty sure, if something happened to Iruka during the Pain Arc, Naruto would have gone Batshit Crazy. And He also went crazy after Orochimaru taunted him with Sasuke’s name. But if Obito does the same, it’s called ‘He was simping for a Girl & started a war for her who didn’t even love him back’. I just find this claim to be pretty sexist. 

[[Yeah, Yeah... I generously mock Sakura for simping over Sasuke who don’t even love her back. But Unlike Sasuke, Rin genuinely cared about Obito just as much as she did with Kakashi.. So, Obito having such strong feelings for her is understandable. But In Sakura case.... Ahem]]

With that being said,

Rin & Kakashi actually had no development or dynamics to be honest. At the very least, I saw her having a mild Crush on him and after Obito’s death, they just gave me some comrade vibes. And also, Even when everyone were alive, Still Rin was not rabidly chasing Kakashi to the point of tiring him out. I think it’s safe to say, she actually moved on from this crush business after Obito’s death. And from Kakashi’s side, he respected her as his Team Mate with no special feelings from his side.

However, when it comes to her dynamics with Obito though, It really gave me this childhood Best friend vibes.

When everyone in his Academy didn’t bother to care about him, Rin was the one who does these little things to acknowledge his existence. It’s almost like Rin saying, ‘I am here for you and I got this’.

To be honest, Fans are underestimating these little Gestures from Rin by passing it off as ‘Rin was just being nice with a Guy’. 

Well, At this point of the story (at 599th chapter), We have seen so many characters like Haku, Gaara, Kimimaro, Kabuto and finally Naruto who were all subjected to lot of sufferings and one of the major issue was Abandonment. Because they didn’t have anyone to say, ‘You are good, I need your presence...And I am here for you’. These are very simple but powerful words to which every abandoned characters crave for. Haku clearly said “Zabuza-san acknowledged me and that’s why I will do whatever he wants”. Same with Kabuto and Kimimaro. And we all know what happened with Naruto in that famous Chapter 1. 

Now tell me, how is Rin any different from Iruka in terms of acknowledging a person without expecting anything back????

Here, Obito is clearly saying that he wants Rin to stay by his side, watch over him and correct him if he makes any mistakes. [[Yes, Yes.... He also meant it in a romantic way]] 

As Obito expected....

Rin was really watching over him when Obito was doing something reckless. And it’s very clear from his expression that he was very glad to have someone at his side who can see what he was hiding (in this scene, he was hiding a wound he got while fighting). 

And this is Rin’s way of saying, ‘Don’t sulk in the corner like a Silly Kid... Show me how you’ll save the world. Let’s go’

Just like Iruka, Rin provides an acknowledgement and moral support to Obito whenever he feels down (Remember Iruka consoling Naruto after Jiraiya’s Death?). And that’s why For Obito, Rin became an important person because she did something which no one has ever did for him. Yeah, He also loved her romantically and he clearly knew that she likes Kakashi. But that doesn’t diminish him from not considering her as someone Precious. It’s like, “It’s Okay, Even if she doesn’t like me in ‘that way’. But I like her presence and She makes me Happy... That’s Enough”.

It’s actually these simple gestures plays an important role in many characters life in this series. For Naruto, Sasuke’s simple smile near that Lake Pier flashback gave him the resolve to continue living without feeling lonely. For Kabuto, Orochimaru’s acknowledgement mattered a lot at that time, no matter their twisted brains. 

And that’s why even during his dying moment, he said this...

And that’s why he couldn’t accept the reality of Rin dying before his Eyes. Also, he couldn’t accept the reality of Kakashi being a failure and his Great Sensei, Yellow Flash of Konoha being an absentee. 

When Naruto goes Feral on hearing a Boy’s name, it’s okay... But when Obito does the same, it’s called Simping, eh???? 

However, when it comes to Rin’s dynamics with her Team as a whole.... She is a person who connects both of her Teammates. Whenever Kakashi and Obito goes into some heated arguments, Rin was the one to say, ‘Enough... Both of you, Let’s go and work together’.

I do think that this is another intentional mockery of Sakura & Team 7 from the Author’s side. Because Rin really had an influence on both the teammates and it’s no denying that Kakashi & Obito, both will listen to her. 

Whereas, with Sakura

“Don’t Interfere with us!”

LOL.... Naruto, a boy who usually gets along with everyone and especially with Sakura, he takes all her bullshit without any complaints but when it comes to this... He puts her in her place in a rude manner. This is something Obito will never say to Rin, Not in his life.... that’s for sure. This is exactly why people love Team Minato despite giving off this ‘dysfunctional vibe’. 

I’ve seen comments like ‘Team Minato is totally bad because no one gained anything from it. Obito was dead because he sacrificed himself, Kakashi was traumatized by Obito’s death and Rin’s suicide, Minato was never there for them when they needed him the most and he died later... That’s why Obito going so far for this team is unjustifiable.’

Well, Just now I’ve provided all the panels about how Rin was a Precious Person for Obito on more than one occasions. Since he was also an Orphan, just like Naruto, He craves for acknowledgement and he got that from Rin. He got a Rival/Friend from Kakashi and he got his inspirational, heroic Sensei from Minato. But everything got crushed in front of his eyes on the day Rin died. Kakashi, a boy with whom he had an immense respect to the point of setting aside his ego and called him as ‘Captain’ failed to protect Rin. Minato, a hero with whom he revered had failed to be there when it mattered... It’s these failures he wanted to rectify through Mugen Tsukuyomi.

So Yes, Considering this story is not about Obito, we didn’t see much of Team Minato due to the lack of narrative time dedicated to it. While Rin doesn’t have a profound dynamics with Kakashi other than a mild crush, I clearly see Rin’s dynamics with Obito is very similar to Iruka + Sasuke’s dynamics with Naruto. 

Mild comparative analysis between Naruto and Romeo and Juliet:

Leaving this one page summary of Romeo and Juliet in place of something more comprehensive, but at the the crux of it, in the play we're met with two teenagers who find refuge in their love for eachother in the midst of the stifling, hyper urban sociopolitical landscape in Verona and decide to fight to be with eachother even in the face of negative consequences. Then a series of unfortunate events occurs and we're left with the tragic ending.

One of the ways they combatted their oppressive landscape was via a "green world." First coined by Northrop Fyre in his "Anatomy of a Criticism," a green world was a literal natural and wild forest setting imbued with magical elements (ie. fairies) that was primarily utilized by Shakespeare in his comedies as a way for his characters to escape the normal world and enter a separate relationship where they could adress/resolve their conflicts + and achieve "metamorphosis."

In Romeo and Juliet, a green world comes in the form of an orchard beneath Juliet's balcony in the second act. Is is there where they are open with one a other about their feelings and express grief over the fact that they're seperated because of family feuding and societal expectations. And it is there where they reaffirm their love and devotion to one another before they part again.

In Naruto, I believe Narusasu's "green world" comes in the form of their shared mindscape that appears every time they clash/their jutsu meet and they subsequently open up about their feelings. Besides the physical landscape of The Valley of the End, it is the place where they share the most vulnerability together. And it is the manifestation of their repressed and/or unrealized desires to connect with and understand one another.

The construction of their "green world" is always preceded by isolated imagery of them reaching out to one but being physically separated by their weapons of choice (the rasengan and chidori). In this sense, there's a cruel irony in that their moments of emotional intimacy happen in the midst of extreme violence, but it's fitting given Kishimoto's thematic setup. Naruto and Sasuke have been brought up in a corrupt feudalistic landscape. Their shinobi world is wrought with cruelty and breeds ninjas that are taught to disconnect from their humanity to become better tools at their villages' beck and call. There is only room for unquestioning dogmatic loyalty and anything less makes you an enemy. The only way they can interact is through violence.

And this is where the interesting addition to the sociopolitical layer in narusasu's dynamic comes in. On a smaller scale, they are separated from each other by their own shortcomings like jealousy and insecurity, but like Romeo and Juliet their care for eachother is considered "transgressive" because of Sasuke's status as a missing nin. Sasuke becomes a "criminal" after rejecting the village that marginalized and extrajudicially genocided his clan. And Naruto, who was sacrificed to maintain the balance of power in Konoha (by having a chakra manifestation of hatred placed in him), is caught between his new staus as a loyal jinchuriki citizen and weapon for the village and his desire to help shoulder Sasuke's burdens and pain.

However, unlike in Romeo and Juliet, there is no beautiful natural refuge for Naruto and Sasuke to meet and and solve their problems. Violence is embedded in their way of living and thus their "green world" or shared mindscape is something they physically create in combat. It is the fruit of their hard work and achievements as ninja in a series where emotional development is also tied to their physical development. And Naruto and Sasuke utilize it accordingly.

It is where they meet and get a glimpse of what the other is feeling. It is where we see the anguish Naruto and Sasuke felt over being torn apart from eachother in VOTE 1 because of external circumstances out of their contol (ie. Oro's curse mark). It is where Naruto opens up about his insecurites and reaffirms his love for Sasuke in a monologue that mirrors Hinata's confession to him in the Pain arc, and his own sentiments from VOTE 1 ("I'm really happy I met you!"). And in VOTE 2 it's where Sasuke tells Naruto, his one and only friend, that they understand eachother's hearts and he has to cut him off to fully be lonely. Through it we got to see the level of care and devlopment put into their bond and their individual characterizations.

And the fact that their last two conversations in the manga take place in the real world is a testament to the fact that they'd outgrown the need for a seperate mental landscape to communicate. It was a sign that they could interact positively without their fists and work to change the systemic issues that led to the series of tragic events that seperated them.

Hello! i’ve read your last post about the UCM and Sasuke’s belief and wants of revenge. Ive never saw any opinions like this and it kinds of made me think more about it thanks to you and understood more in a new light!!!

I have a question tho, i don’t think you ever talked about it here but i would love to have your insight on Tobirama. i never liked him, i always thought he was a closest racist and wanted to marginalize the Uchiha. Maybe im wrong but its really something that bothered me. The fact that he believed that Uchihas must be controlled bc the Village is more important instead of engaging in an open and honest talk with them to let them feel accepted by the higher ups.

And also!!! the curse of hatred he talked about when Edo Tensei, ive never really understood it clearly either😔 Wasn’t it like some gossip he spread or something?? maybe im biased and i would love your insight on this!! Ty for your hard work ❤️

First of all, Thank you for this ask as a response to this post.... And Thanks for giving a Benefit of Doubt about something you are not sure of instead of going full on Hate for misinterpreted reasons or selective reading. 

Before that, I’d suggest you to read this post... [Post Link]... about Obito’s version of Uchiha Clan flashbacks’ contradictions & loopholes that led to so many misinterpretations in the Fandom. Because it’s very important to get some context and also I talked about this character, a little bit, over there. This post is just the extension of that post.

Short Answer to your Question:

Tobirama is not a Racist.

Long answer as follows:

When we pick a single panel related to a character and base our opinions on that panel.... Almost every character would appear Detestable. I could easily call Sasuke as a Murderer for ramming Chidori into Naruto's lungs citing he hated Naruto. But when we consider the context, his sub-textual feelings and his Character Journey as a whole.... That would prove he never hated Naruto. We should do the same for every others characters too. 

All we have to do is to put the context & subtexts together and see if our opinions were right... And If our opinion doesn't match for more than 3 or 4 panels, then all we have to do is to re-evaluate and re-read the material properly all the while by KEEPING CANON IN MIND... DON’T BRING IN HEADCANON OR PREJUDICED OPINION. This is very important for making sensitive claims like Racist, Homophobe. And this post’s intention is just to present every panels related to him and let the readers judge him for what he is... 

MEANING : DON’T IGNORE ANY PANELS & VERIFY IF THE CLAIMS ARE TRUE BY LOOKING FOR MORE PROOFS.

Let me address your issues and then I’ll take it from there.

The Curse of Hatred he talked about when Edo Tensei... Wasn’t it like some gossip he spread or something??

Firstly, He never used the word ‘Curse of Hatred’ at all...

“It’s the Cursed Destiny of Uchiha”

Even the Japanese Raws says the same  

呪われた運命 Norowareta unmei Cursed Fate

This is very different from Curse of Hatred

憎しみの呪い Nikushimi no Noroi Curse of Hatred

Well, Whatever Tobirama said may not be very different from the real term... But I just want to clarify on that.

Secondly, The term ‘Curse of Hatred’ was first used by Obito (disguised as Madara). When Obito met Naruto, Kakashi & Yamato to talk about Sasuke’s plans to destroy Konoha.

This scene happens way before the Hokages got resurrected by the Edo Tensei.

And this is the first time the term ‘Curse of Hatred’ was used in the series in Chapter 462... Whereas Tobirama was resurrected only in Chapter 618. 

“It was fate... The Uchiha Clan’s blood stained destiny to be consumed with hate... The curse that has plagued our clan since it’s inception...”

And there’s no need for Obito to lie about his own clan’s Curse or Fate or however you describe it. Added to that, Obito is referring to this Curse of Hatred that has been plaguing Uchiha Clan since their Clan’s Inception.... I am pretty sure, Uchiha Clan was found long back before Tobirama was even born....

So, He didn’t invent that term.... The only possibility that he could’ve invented that term is to time travel to Rikkudou Sennin’s time and put that Idea into Indra’s head and it got gradually passed down...

Thirdly, Tobirama never spread such rumour to anyone... If that’s the case, Every villagers would’ve been afraid on the sight of any Uchihas just like how they were afraid of Naruto because he was the source of Greater Power that was sealed inside him and they were afraid that Naruto could go out of control at any time... 

Here, Kakashi is revering Uchiha Clan as ‘Elite Ninjas’ but calling out Obito was being ‘Non Elite’ or ‘Dumb’.... And throughout Part 1, I am very sure Sasuke was treated like a Gifted Child... Same with Itachi.... And same with Sasuke’s Father.... 

This is not the behaviour of how a Cursed Clan should be treated. So, it’s very clear that no one in the Village knew any of this. And Tobirama didn’t spread any of those rumours either. 

The fact that he believed that Uchihas must be controlled by the Village is more important instead of engaging in an open and honest talk with them to let them feel accepted by the higher ups.

I really don’t know the source for this claim.... But it was Danzo and the other councilors who marginalized the Uchiha clan after the Kyuubi Incident... They should have been the one who should should have engaged in an Open and Honest talk.... Where did Tobirama come into any of this??? He was long dead by the time Kyuubi Incident had happened anyway... 

But still, I am attaching the panels in the EXACT ORDER here...  The following panel is from Chapter 399, Page 16.

Here Obito is saying, “Only our Eye Techniques are Capable of controlling the Kyuubi...”

Canonically up until that point, that’s true... Kurama himself told this to Sasuke...

“Unbelievable.... To think you’d even be able to suppress my power...”

And we all know how Naruto struggled to control the power of Kurama until Pain Arc... Whereas Sasuke could easily suppress it... 

This is a known fact among Konoha Higher-Ups and hence they suspected Uchiha Clan. Whereas in the very next panel, Obito was blatantly lying that it was a Freak Occurrence, while it’s canonically proved that Obito (an Uchiha) was the one who released it... 

Which proves the Konoha Higher Ups’ Suspicion right... Isn’t it??? 

I am saying, their Suspicion was right but their actions were not... Not one bit... This is where they should have conducted an Honest and Open talk with the Uchiha Clan instead of controlling them by marginalizing them.

And in the same chapter 399, Page 17... the very next page... We get this...

“The Clan’s land was moved to the remote corner of the Village... They had effectively been quarantined...”

This is the page where the words ‘Discrimination’, ‘Quarantined’ appears for the first time... Tobirama had nothing to do with these pages at all... Because he was already dead...

I always thought he was a closet racist and wanted to marginalize the Uchiha.

Again, Like I said... Tobirama had nothing to do with the Marginalization of Uchihas... 

Let’s consider, if Uchiha Clan were indeed Ostracized by him... Since they are already in the corner of the Village back from the time of Tobirama, What is the need for Danzo to move their Lands into a Remote corner of the Village???

What’s the need to marginalize an already marginalized clan anyway????

Like it doesn’t make sense at all... Especially there’s no proof for it.

Or, Let’s go back to the situation of Uchiha Clan people before the Kyuubi Incident...

This is Obito when he was like 12... The Old Lady was very receptive towards him and indeed gifting him a Candy. If only Obito belonged to a Marginalized Clan... Would she even be this nice to him??? Or do you think If this Old Lady knew about that so called ‘Curse of Hatred’... Would she even walk with him without making suspicious face??? Won’t she be looking at him with a look of terror???

Whereas if it were Naruto... The Old Lady wouldn’t even walk with him... Let alone being nice. 

I know some people will say, the Old Lady might have belonged to Uchiha Clan... Lo and Behold, Obito himself says out loud...

“Now that I think about it... I know every old person in Leaf...”

How is it that a boy from a Hate Filled Clan knew every old person from the leaf???? Not to mention he was happy doing that.... Unlike Naruto who was never shown to have a happy times with anyone in that village before Age 12??? 

What Naruto faced was the real Ostracization or Marginalization.... 

This is a panel which clearly shows how Killer Bee was treated in his own Village.... I mean, If the Author could show some struggles of Discrimination for a side character... Why didn’t he expend his energy to show something like this for the Uchiha Clan plot which takes 50% of his story???

Also, Let’s say, if Tobirama did indeed marginalized them

This is the panel from Obito’s version of the Flashback where he talked about Tobirama.

“But even that was a means to keep them out of Goverment Affairs.... They were simply being grouped together to make keeping an eye on them easier...”

Why didn’t Obito say anything about Tobirama marginalizing Uchiha here like he did with Hiruzen & Danzo panel, as I attached earlier???? He is saying that the Military Police Force were given to the Uchihas to keep them out of the Government Council and they were being spied upon by the ANBU.... 

I debunked this claim about How Uchihas were only allowed to become a Cop in my attached post... Obito wanted to become an Hokage, Itachi was in ANBU, Shisui was not a cop, Apart from Shisui and Itachi, there were many Uchiha members in the ANBU team... Kagami wasn’t a cop.... 

Whereas Orochimaru says something else regarding the reason for the Establishment of Military Police Force...

This Panel!!! 

Another panel which gave rise to ‘Tobirama Discriminated Uchihas’ allegations. Well, the sentence “Succeeding in bluntly chasing them away to the outskirts of the Village...” seems like he marginalized Uchiha, Doesn’t it??? Whereas Obito in his Flashback never made any mention about Marginalizing Uchihas... Which one is true anyway???

While we all fail to notice Orochimaru also says.... “The Ones who control crime sometimes tend to be disliked...”.... Well, Canonically Everyone adored Itachi and Sasuke.... The Academy teacher was very interested to speak to Fugaku who is the Head of the Military Police at that time... And there is no canonical evidence in the Manga about anyone disliking Uchihas because they were police... So, where did this claim comes from???

And also, the Same Orochimaru says.... “Moreover, because of their Authority they tend to become conceited (Arrogant).”.... Again... This sentence contradicts what Obito said in his own flashback, Doesn’t it??? Here Orochimaru saying Uchihas became Arrogant because of the Position which gave them the superior Authority... If people becomes Arrogant because of their Job.... It must be really some high level powerful position as opposed to selling Food Products and Flowers.... Whereas Obito was saying that Police Force was a position to keep the Uchihas away from the Government Affairs... That is, the police force is some low level position that was given to the Uchihas to spite them.

Both Obito and Orochimaru’s Claims about Military Police Force contradict each other and doesn’t match up at all. Not one bit.... 

So,

WHICH ONE IS TRUE, BY THE WAY????

Lo and Behold.... Sasuke himself wants to hear the truth from the Dead Hokages.... before his plan to destroy Konoha....

“The Ones who know Everything”

Meaning, Whatever they say are the Ultimate truth..... Sasuke decided to destroy Konoha because he believed Obito’s Flashback was the Truth. But After meeting with Itachi, Sasuke got doubts... If Uchiha Clan was really discriminated for generations after generations by Konoha, even after knowing that... why would Itachi go so far for this Village??? Why would his Brother’s best friend Shisui went so far to commit Suicide??? 

To clear all his doubts... He wanted to hear everything from the Hokages. If Sasuke decided to destroy Konoha after hearing Obito’s Flashback... Sasuke’s decision to protect Konoha was based on Hokage’s version of the Truth. 

And this whole arc was all about Sasuke (As a voice of Audience) asking a question to the Hokages based on his Opinion and the Respective Hokages gives him their Answers... It’s a Q&A Arc where their Answers should be taken as the Final Truth...

So, Whatever Obito and Orochimaru claimed about the Military Police force should be taken with a Grain of Salt. Because it defeats the Purpose of this entire arc and both of those people were making speculations about the Era they didn’t live in and moreover.... Both of their claims contradict with each other... [[I know people believe their claim as the Gospel... But If their claims was true... Why is it contradicting??? ]]

The real reason for Tobirama to give the Military Police Force to Uchihas was...

“I gave them the positions that they were eminently qualified for! And I believed that even if another Madara were to emerge, He could be dealt with right away!”

Meaning... If someday a person like Madara were to show up attacking the Village, Uchiha Clan with their Military Police Force & their Sharingan can able to deal with that person... [[You may claim... This is a lie he makes up to cover his mistakes... And I have Answer for that as well]]

Oh by the Way.... Usually you see panels where Hashirama was asking, “Tobirama! Haven’t I told you not to persecute the Uchiha?!”

That’s such a wrong meaning... 

Now it may seem like, Tobirama treated every Uchiha Clan members were some Future Madara and gave them the position out of Fear of Uchihas and also to watch over themselves as a Fail-Safe measure... Right???

Because Orochimaru also asks the same thing here...

まるでマダラはトラウマのょうですねそんなにうちはが怖いと Marude madara wa torauma no ~youdesune son'nani uchi wa ga kowaito It's seems like Madara is your trauma to frighten you so much about the Uchiha

And this where Tobirama explains about the Uchiha Clan peoples’ Power Mechanism and why he gave that Military Police Force to them... 

“When a Member of Uchiha Knows Love, it’s as if the feelings they were blocking out arise.... Their Love is too strong... And they can end up running wild..”

My Question is... “Was he wrong to say Uchiha’s love is so strong and they end up running wild???”

Because it’s been canonically proven that they are capable of going out of control. 

This is Obito slaughtering Mist Ninjas after seeing Rin’s death.... And what about that Sasuke’s grand stint in Kage summit Arc???? Obito went out of control because of Rin.... Sasuke went out of control because of Itachi....

And then he says this...

“When Uchiha suffer after experiencing the loss of a loved one or despair... Special Chakra sprouts insde their brains, which affects the optic nerve and produces a change in their eyes...”

Again.... Was he wrong about Sharingan????

Obito evolving his Sharingan after the Loss of Rin...

Sasuke evolving his Sharingan after deciding to part away from Naruto...

And then he finally says this... 

“The Sharingan aligns with the person’s feelings and quickly makes the person stronger... together with the hatred in their Hearts... Almost all of the ones who experience strong feelings are captured by Darkness and Turn Evil... The Deeper their Darkness becomes, the more powerful their eyes get, and it’s impossible to handle them...”

And this fact was also proven true...

Obito: Susanoo...? It looks completely different from the previous one... Yes... Every step of the way, his Hatred has made him more powerful to the point his body reacts to it...

Karin: Is that really Sasuke?? This feels nothing like his normal Chakra...

Sasuke evolved his Susanoo out of his sheer Hatred.... And later he stabbed Karin which signifies his venture into the Darkness.... 

So, All of the claims Tobirama made in 2 pages were completely proven true by Obito and Sasuke himself. If these claims were true, then the fact that he gave that position to the Uchihas out of respect and not for Marginalization purpose is also true....

But now you may ask... What is the relation between Sharingan’s power & Military Police Force & Stopping Madara??? 

Well, Tobirama’s entire claim is that the Uchiha Clan members were one bunch of Extremely Loving people... If they lose their love, they suffer a lot and that sufferings arouse a chakra in their eyes which evolves their Sharingan. And the more the Sharingan evolves, the stronger they become which also gives rise to the Hatred in their Heart.... And almost all those sensitive people were captured by Darkness and turned into Evil.... 

Meaning... Uchiha Clan people gain power when they protect their loved ones... And unfortunately if they lose their loved ones, they gain even more power which makes them even more stronger... If Someone so powerful like Madara threatens the Village, Someday... In order to protect their Loved Ones who lives inside the Village, Other Uchiha people could protect the village very well as a Police Force who has the authority to deal with the Criminals like Madara...

Just like how Sasuke got stronger when he was trying to protect Naruto from Haku...

Just like how Obito got stronger when he was trying to protect Kakashi from those Stone Ninjas... 

Even though Canonically they were proven to succumb into Hatred and going out of Control.... Instead of deeming Uchiha Clan as ‘Hatred’ personified, Instead of deeming everyone of them as Unstable.... Tobirama wanted to channel their Strong Love and the power that comes out of it as a means to protect the Village through the Police Force. And this following panel proves everything...

“I wanted to channel the Uchiha’s power into something that could be of helpful to the Village...”

I seriously don’t understand why this Explanation gave rise to ‘Tobirama is a Racist’ claim.... If he was truly a Racist, The very first thing he should have done was to spread delusional lies about Uchiha Clan to all the Villagers and make them hate Uchiha Clan... 

He knew about Uchiha Clan member’s Power Mechanism and yet he didn’t say about these to anyone in the Village... Well, If people come to know these facts, they would definitely be afraid of them just like they were afraid of Naruto going out of control....

“To pull out the Kyuubi Chakra without losing himself...”

Unlike Obito and Orochimaru’s claims about Military Police Force which had no proof or valid panels to support them... Tobirama’s reasoning has a Big Proof inside Canon....

“But you must not lay a hand on the Village and on Uchiha Sasuke” 

Itachi wanted to protect his beloved Brother from the Chaos that would have killed him... And He also wanted to protect his Village.... 

Itachi’s strong Love was what prevented a War and saved the Village. And this strong love was what Tobirama wanted to channel as a whole. Which he explains in this panel...

“But it’s also true that they were very devoted. There were also many, like your Brother and Uchiha Kagami... That surpassed the boundaries of the clan and did a lot for the Village...”

He is basically saying what I’ve said before... “Yes, There are possibilities of people turning into Madara and destroy everything.... But at the same time they are so much capable of Intensely Loving something and that’s why they were very devoted to the village... There were few people like Itachi and Kagami who loved the Village by surpassing the boundaries of the Clan...”

Tobirama trusted their capability to love and gave them a Law Enforcement Position. And that’s why I never considered him as a Racist. 

But....

Despite all these panels.... Why do a part of Naruto Fandom consider him as such??? 

That’s because he speaks Truth in a Blunt way which sometimes ends up being Insensitive (to the readers not to the Characters involved though). 

And Also some heavily Mistranslated words.

And also people misinterpreting Brotherly dynamics and Mischaracterization of Hashirama. 

Firstly... The translation error....

あれほどうちはをないがしろ にしてはならぬと念を押して! Are hodo uchi wa o naigashiro ni shite wa naranu to nen o oshite! I told you over and over to not neglect/make light of/slight the Uchiha!

The term Naigashiro means Neglect or Slight or Make Light of.... Persecute is nowhere near to the meaning like they put in those translations. Neglect or ‘Make Light of’ makes more sense considering the context...

Like I said above, Hashirama never used the word ‘Persecute’ in his Question... That’s totally a grave translation error... 

And then this panel....

Bigotry???? Again a very wrong translation....

そういう言い方はょせと言ったはずだぞ Sōiu iikata wa ~yose to itta hazuda zo I told you not to talk like that

The above one is the right translation.... Such kind of wrong translation with Sensitive words like Bigotry, Persecute carries a different meaning to the western readers.... This is one of the reason he was deemed as a Racist... But in Anime, the translation was accurate, though..

Secondly, In the above panel, he asked....

“An Uchiha, eh? No wonder you are with the enemy...”

I am asking.... Was he factually wrong to say that??? 

At this point, We have seen 4 Uchihas inside the story... Sasuke, Itachi, Obito and Madara.... Madara was an enemy, Obito was an enemy too... Itachi was not an enemy but posed himself as one by joining Akatsuki... Sasuke was an enemy because he also joined Obito and kidnapped Killer Bee, And on top of that he was standing right next to Orochimaru who once resurrected these very Hokages and used them to destroy the Village...  

Actually Sasuke was proving his assumptions right.... 

But still.... Let’s just say Tobirama was wrong to say like that....

Then what about this???

悪に憑かれた一族だ Aku ni tsuka reta ichizokuda It's a Clan possessed by Evil

Another Blunt remark from Tobirama about the Uchiha Clan.... To which Sasuke was asking, “What is it about the Uchiha Clan??? What do you know?!”

Well, people are making a great deal out of this sentence “It’s a clan possessed by Evil”.... Like it’s some racist remark about Uchiha Clan and all that.... While I agree that this comment is definitely Insensitive especially Sasuke is just a Child. But is it not weird that.... Sasuke was asking about his own clan to Tobirama, out of all people, even though he made a hard-hitting claim about his own clan????. If he was written as a racist, Narratively his opinion will always be biased against Uchihas... Because Racist always spout wrong things... But Sasuke was specifically asking him.... 

But is it a Racist remark???

If that’s the case... What do you say about this following panel...???

Here Sasuke specifically asking, “What do you mean about The Uchiha being possessed by Evil?!”

To Which Hashirama was giving off a GUILTIFUL, KNOWING & ACCEPTING LOOK in the highlighted panel to the Bottom Right .... Like he knows the fact about that topic but he doesn’t want to talk about it out loud.... So, Hashirama knows about the fact that the Uchiha Clan being possessed by Evil or Hatred... But if someone openly points out the fact... Hashirama will get mad... Which is totally a biased behaviour, Don’t you think???

And this is not the only time...

“The Stronger their hate, the greater their ocular powers... That’s the secret of the Sharingan...”

Here Tobirama talks about the Hatred being the source of the Sharingan.... And immediately Hashirama reprimands his Brother just like he did before by saying, “Quit saying such things... Tobirama!!!”...

Whereas here, Again Tobirama talks about the Sharingan and the hatred infront of Sasuke.... And here, Hashi agrees with it... “Madara really loved his little Brother... Probably even more than your Brother”

And this thing happened yet again.... 

Here Tobirama is saying, “However... If they ended up destroying themselves for the sake of the Village, that cannot be helped...”

People take these lines as if Tobirama was happy to see Uchihas self-destructed each other... But in reality, he was just indifferent....

And in the next panel, Hashirama gets emotional by saying the same line, “Would you stop talking like that....?”....... To which Tobi says, “What’s important is the Village... The Village is the Cornerstone...”

Whereas Few pages later... Hashi says this,

“Anyway... You had a really Great Brother, Sasuke.... He’s a Better Shinobi than me...”

Isn’t this what Tobirama said about Uchiha Clan with an indifferent tone in the above panel??? Hashi is praising Itachi for saving the Village here... So, Can we take Hashirama was also gleefully happy to see Uchiha self-destructed themselves, according to the Racist logic????

Added to that....

“I still believe... that protecting the village is the best way to protect people, Shinobi and Children...!”

Again, isn’t this what Tobirama talked about earlier that Village is the Important thing...????

In all the above instances, Be it when he said, “A Clan possessed by Evil” or “Hatred is the Source of Sharingan” or “Village is important”, Every fact was accepted by Hashirama himself... It’s just that he was too enamoured with the Uchiha Clan by pulling the punches knowing full well about everything but doesn’t want to talk about it straight forwardly.... 

Am not saying Hashirama was wrong... It’s just that he was being extremely Idealistic by believing Everything will be alright... Whereas Tobirama was addressing the real issues of Uchiha Clan by being Practical.... 

Hashi was being Soft Spoken and Tobirama was being Blunt... 

Hashi says ‘This is not Good’ while Tobi says ‘This is bad’.... This is their Brotherly Dynamics.... 

But people think Hashirama was calling out his brother for being a ‘Racist’ or ‘Bigot’ (a translation error)... While not realizing, Hashirama also agrees with him about everything... 

Which is backed up by this Panel...

“My brother was too soft.... And Madara was too Dangerous.... My Role as Second Hokage was to mediate between them while protecting and reinforcing the Village”

Tobirama said,  “An Uchiha, eh? No wonder you are with the enemy...” 

Well, It’s that same person who said this following as well....

“Your Brother wasn’t the only one... One of my subordinates was Uchiha Kagami, A man a lot like your brother...”

He calls A spade A spade... Give compliments where it’s necessary... If he was a racist, he shouldn’t have said this at all... 

Which even surprised Sasuke to the point of asking, “I thought you hated the Uchiha?”

And he clearly gives his reason here in this panel.... “That’s not true... I simply treated every clan who would pose danger to the Village with extreme caution... Uchiha Clan just happened to be particularly disposed to be considered such... But it’s also true that they could feel such deep love.... Just like your Brother and Kagami who transcended the Framework of Clan and devoted themselves to the village...”

He is calling Naruto & his Brother as a Fool...

At the same time he is praising Naruto as a person who gives Hope just like his Brother...

He called Minato as this comedian...

At the same time, He praised Minato as the one who saved the Shinobi World...

He called Uchiha Clan as A Clan Possessed by Evil.... At the same time he also called them as The Most Lovable clan....

But somehow, Pointing out Uchiha Clan’s instability is called as Racism, huh??? I feel this is super-hypocritic... 

Still.... If all these explanation doesn’t help... I just want an answer to these following panels....

Which racist would want to make Peace Agreement with the enemy...????

This scene happens right after their brother Kawarama’s death who was killed by the Uchihas. Instead of getting angry at the Uchiha clan, he is speaking rationally without getting into emotional rage of going for Revenge... 

If he were a racist, shouldn’t he be pushing towards the Revenge by making an Hate Speech against them??? Am not saying anyone who pursue Revenge are racists... What I am trying to say is that If a child, even after suffering a loss could able to think rationally and find a solution about how to stop the problem.... Then that person could no way be a Racist... 

Which racist would put his Young Team Members’ lives first, which also includes an Uchiha and makes himself to become a sacrificial piece???

This is a flashback of Team Tobirama where their deadly situation forces someone to act as a decoy... The Person the Bottom left is Kagami Uchiha...

Uchiha Kagami was also a member of his Team.... If he was a Racist, shouldn’t he send Kagami as a decoy??? Or Why would he keep an Uchiha in his own team, in the first place??? 

Also, if Kagami stepped into volunteer as a Decoy, he would’ve become an Hokage... But Hiruzen, A Sarutobi clan member volunteered for it and he became the Third Hokage... 

Racists are people who think their Race are the Best.... Why didn’t Tobirama didn’t have any Senju Clan member in his Team, I wonder????

Which racist would try to ask Madara to not kill Sasuke, an Uchiha?

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Which racist would try to Yell at Madara for killing Sasuke, an Uchiha?

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Which racist would want to desperately save Sasuke, an Uchiha with his own forbidden Jutsu?

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Which racist would advise Kabuto on how to save Sasuke, an Uchiha?

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Which racist would help Sasuke to Teleport to wherever he want to???

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Which racist would be glad to leave the Shinobi world in the hands of the Young Generation (Naruto and Sasuke who is also an Uchiha)???  

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I don’t know, Man.... Why is he desperate to save Sasuke at all costs??? Like he doesn’t owe him anything... He won’t gain anything either... Shouldn’t a racist supposed to leave him to die???? 

And to further prove this....

Madara’s perception about Uchiha’s Eye Power & Abusing another person (Sasuke) from his own clan

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Madara claiming Hatred is the only thing that can be passed down...

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Itachi claiming his clan as Pathetic

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Obito (As Fake Madara) claiming that the Uchiha Clan is doomed to eternally seek Revenge... 

“The Uchiha Clan is cursed to Eternally seek revenge... Sasuke has taken the full burden of our clan’s hatred... And intends to afflict the Entire world with it’s curse...”

Am Sorry, This Curse of Hatred information was passed down through that Uchiha Stone Tablet.... And only very few Uchiha members knew about this.... Namely, Obito and Madara.... Because only people with Mangekyo Sharingan can read a part of the Tablet.... It’s not something Tobirama invented and spread it as rumour... This bad information was started by Tumblr Uchiha Apologists...

But I never seen any Apologists blaming neither Obito nor Madara for this Curse of Hatred thing...

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Rikkudou Sennin claiming he expected someone would abuse the Power of Rinnegan... From Indra’s descendants... That is the Uchiha Clan... 

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Whereas Tobirama was the only person to say

Madara, Obito and including Rikkudou Sennin, judges Uchiha Clan as this Power hungry, Hate filled and Revenge seeking people.... Whereas he was the only person to say, “No other clan treasured Love as much as Uchiha...” 

I don’t know... I see him as a Pro-Uchiha Figure here.... 

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To conclude this,

Tobirama is a rational and practical person who speaks in a cutting and blunt manner without any bias towards anyone. Be it the ‘God of Shinobi’ Hashirama or Naruto or Minato.... He called them Dumb and at the same time he won’t hesitate to praise them as well... 

He uses the same approach with the Uchiha Clan as well.... He called them out as a Clan possessed by Evil and at the same time he called them as the most Love filled Clan.... 

He hated Madara but also loved his Team member Kagami and praised Itachi, desperately tried to save Sasuke multiple times....

When everyone was deeming and judging Uchiha Clan as a Hatred, Revenge and Power Hungry people (Canonically it’s proven true as well... So, it’s not entirely wrong to call them as such.... Madara and Obito and Sasuke were the great example of it....) but Tobirama was the only one to dig deep behind their problem and found the real solution behind their instability and deemed them that they are capable of Loving so much and that their Hatred comes from their deep Love.... (This was also canonically proven true.... But no one knows this side of Uchiha Clan.... Not even their own clan members... Sasuke deeply loved Itachi & Naruto, Obito loved Rin, Madara loved Hashirama). 

Somehow, he became a Racist because of what??? He spoke the truth???

Yes, Hashirama was seen reprimanding his Brother when someone is accusing him... But at the end of the day, he agrees with Tobirama completely. Hashirama is just soft-spoken whereas Tobirama was blunt. But Fandom taking Hashirama’s criticism as the One Single Truth screams Lack of Visual and Reading Comprehension. 

And While he was a cautious man when it comes to protecting the Village, he was also the most trusting person by giving a Powerful position to the Uchiha Clan, invented Edo Tensei that would protect the Village.... But somehow Orochimaru misused this Jutsu on his whim and Uchiha Clan misused the Police Force power that was given to them.... And Blaming him back for everything???? Seriously???

And, Yes, Again for the Nth time I am saying that, It was Danzo who ostracized the Uchiha Clan and Hiruzen didn’t make it in time even though he was against it. And this is the Fact he himself agrees in this panel....

“I could not maintain Lord Second’s village building well...”

So, Whatever Orochimaru and Obito talked about the Military Police Force should be taken with a grain of salt because they both never knew about what happened in that Era, they were just speculating, their claims have no further consolidated panel proof and both of their claims contradicts each other.... And also believing their words defeats the purpose of the Entire Arc... Since Hokages words were the Final One True Source....

If he were any kind of a Racist be it closeted or open, why didn’t he massacre the Uchiha Clan right after he became the Hokage??? 

Why did he have to research about the clan he sincerely hates??? 

And I am Sorry.... None of the claims from this Fandom about Tobirama being Racist or Marginalized or Hated Uchihas makes sense.... Especially there is no panel evidence or subtexts which proves their claim as right.... He hated Madara for sure and for a very good reason... But not the Uchihas as a whole....

I’ve brought in All the panels related to this character and presented my insights in this post. And I never thought he was a Racist. It’s only after I ventured into the fandom, I realized the existence of these claims. I went through the Manga again to verify if these claims were true in the hopes that I might have missed something but all I found was nothing

But I’ll let the readers judge whether he is one or not.

Hi. What's your take on people saying that ladrien is toxic because they only view each other as their "perfect" selves?

*Watches Ladrien mutually trip all over themselves trying to appear smooth in front of their crush*

*Watches how Ladrien scenes seem to almost always highlight the similarities between Adrien and Marinette in these moments*

*Sees how Ladrien scenes are Cat Noir facing his crush without the shield of his secret identity*

*Sees how Ladrien scenes are Marinette facing her crush with a shield of a secret identity*

So, hot take: Ladrien is actually just Adrinette from Marinette's perspective and Ladynoir from Adrien's perspective. "Ladrinette" doesn't exist by itself, so how could it possibly have traits that the other corners of the lovesquare don't?

Also, if anyone tries to come at me with that "Marinette idolizes Adrien" and "Adrien idolizes Ladybug" stuff I'll just say: they saw each other at their most awkward before they ever fell in love with the other, they romanticize each other now because they fell in love with those imperfect selves first and decided that they could love those less perfect parts of them as well.

Marinette decided that the Adrien who let somebody accuse him of bullying just to take the flack for a childhood friend was kind rather than a pathetic doormat. Adrien decided that the Ladybug who wanted to quit at the slightest difficulty but still managed to pick herself up again was caring rather than a pathetic flake. They saw the most pathetic parts of each other and, rather than pitying them, they fell in love.

athenasolives asked: Do you have any thoughts on meaning behind characters’ Japanese  pronouns (ie. Light using “boku”)? 

Yes!! I think the pronouns characters use are really interesting. As a disclaimer, I’m not a native Japanese speaker and have never lived in Japan myself, so my opinions are largely based on picking the brains of native-speaker friends and research. Unlike English, Japanese tends to omit “I” from sentences. Leaving in personal pronouns comes off as really odd and a sign that whoever is speaking that way is not a native speaker or that they’re on the arrogant/self important side. All of which is to say that personal pronoun choice is important and also interesting because they don’t usually come up in conversation unless for emphasis. As you mentioned Light, I’ll go over my thoughts on him specifically, but the subject of patterns of speech in DN in general could really just be its own tl;dr post, haha.

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