Canon Jin Guangyao - Tumblr Posts
Don’t leave this in the tags.
So I follow the mdzs subreddit, perhaps cuz i like torturing myself (that place is filled with jc and jgy stans), recently there have been a few more people in it with actual reading comprehension tho which is nice.
But to the point, in the last few days there have been quite a bit of posts by jgy stans whining about “why do people hate on jgy so much, when other characters also committed crimes like wwx” and “jgy only killed nmj out of self defense because the man was always trying to kill him so it’s justified” oh and the best one “actually jgy is too compassionate, he didn’t kill qin su or sisi and his life would have been so much easier if he had”
So Jin Guangyao killed Nie Mingjue, ok we can give him that one. Was killing all those sex workers he used to rape his father justified? Was burning the sex workers alive in the brothel justified? Was killing the He Clan justified? He takes credit for killing Qin Su by purposely waving a knife in her face that amplifies negative emotions and also permanently traps the souls of its victims after she refused to accept that he knowingly pursued an incestuous relationship with her, was that justified? Was killing Jin Rusong justified? Imprisoning Sisi for life in the darkest corner of the Koi Tower dungeons, was that justified simply because he didn’t kill her?
And I know folks like to stan the rich and powerful, but hurting a rich person’s feelings or challenging their authority doesn’t count as a crime. Wei Wuxian did nothing wrong.
Jin Ling and the Curse of Escalating Abuse, Pt. 2
This post will cover Jin Ling and Jin Guangyao’s relationship in much the same way that the first part, here, analyzed Jin Ling and Jiang Cheng’s relationship. Note: just as with the first part, I will not be addressing Jin Guangyao’s (supposed) love for Jin Ling. As I said before, the love an abuser has for their victim(s) means absolutely nothing in the face of that unchanged abuse. For each scene I analyze, I will be using one source per scene, but if I have multiple translations for a scene, I will put them under the cut for comparison.
As discussed in the first post to this duo, Jin Ling does not grow up with a caring uncle from his mother’s side. However, I rarely see people discuss the abuse that Jin Ling faces from his paternal uncle, Jin Guangyao, and I think this is because 1) we don’t see Jin Ling and Jin Guangyao directly interact for much of the story the way that Jiang Cheng and Jin Ling do and 2) Jin Guangyao’s style of abuse looks vastly different from the very straightforward toxicity that Jiang Cheng displays. But still, there are a lot of tidbits in the story to give us insight into this uncle-nephew relationship, so let’s get into it!
From the very beginning, we are shown the ways in which Jin Guangyao cares for Jin Ling, such as that he gifts Jin Ling his spiritual dog who serves as his first and closest friend, pre-canon, and Jin Ling regards this highly:
Jin Ling’s black-maned spirit dog was of a rare species, and it had been given to him by Jin Guangyao.
–Chapt. 20: Sunshine II, fanyiyi
“How could your donkey compare to my spirit dog?” Jin Ling said. “Xianzi was given to me by my younger uncle. If something happens to it, even ten thousand donkeys wouldn’t make up for it!”
–Chapt. 34: Flora II, fanyiyi
Jin Ling is also very protective of his paternal uncle, warning “Mo Xuanyu” away from “his people” even as he is reluctantly charmed by Wei Wuxian’s personality:
“…Don’t bother or mess around with other men, especially if they’re my people! Otherwise, don’t blame me if I do something about it.”
By “my people,” Jin Ling meant both the Lanling Jin Clan and the Yunmeng Jiang Clan. It appeared that his tolerance for the passion of the cut sleeve had increased—as long as Wei Wuxian wasn’t trying to involve himself with men of either clan, he could look the other way.
–Chapt. 45: Beauty III, fanyiyi
He even gets upset that “Mo Xuanyu” has returned to Koi Tower given the scandal of his banishment and especially when he finds “Mo Xuanyu” outside of Jin Guangyao’s private rooms:
As Jin Ling was just about to speak again, he glanced behind Lan WangJi and finally saw Wei WuXian. Temporarily astounded, he blurted, “Why are you here?!”
Wei WuXian, “To get a free meal.”
Jin Ling was somewhat angered, “How dare you still come?! Didn’t I warn…”
–Chapt. 47: Guile, exr
Jin Ling felt goosebumps climb over his body, “Shut up right now! Who’s all lovey-dovey with you?! Didn’t I warn you already not to mess with our sect’s people? Why have you come back?!”
–Chapt. 47: Guile, exr
The first to hurry over was Jin Ling. His sword was already unsheathed in his hand as he asked, “Why are you here?”…
…Jin Ling fumed, “Just what do you want? Everyone is here because of you! This is my uncle’s bedchamber, bedchamber, you understand?! Haven’t I told you not to…”
–Chapt. 50: Guile, exr
But unlike with Jiang Cheng and Jin Ling’s turbulent relationship, the feelings of care seem to be overtly reciprocated between Jin Guangyao and Jin Ling. In the first direct interaction we see between uncle and nephew, Jin Guangyao acts as shield and comfort to Jin Ling, being the calming buffer between Jin Ling and Jiang Cheng:
Jin Ling followed Jin GuangYao out here. He still didn’t dare meet Jiang Cheng alone. Hiding behind Jin GuangYao’s back, he mumbled, “Uncle.”
Jiang Cheng replied harshly, “So you still know that I’m your uncle!”
Jin Ling quickly tugged at the back hems of Jin GuangYao’s robe. Jin GuangYao seemed as though he had been born to resolve conflicts, “Now, Sect Leader Jiang, A-Ling realized his mistake a long time ago. During the past few days, he’s been so scared you’d punish him that he hasn’t even been eating well. Children just like to make mischief. I know you love him the most. Let’s not bother him about it so much.”
–Chapt. 47: Guile, exr
…as well as calming Jin Ling down when he gets upset at “Mo Xuanyu” being present at the discussion conference:
Jin Ling was somewhat angered, “How dare you still come?! Didn’t I warn…”
Jin GuangYao rubbed Jin Ling’s head, pushing him behind himself, and smiled…
–Chapt. 47: Guile, exr
And Jin Guangyao manages to do this all without appearing as overbearing or condescending towards his nephew, allowing Jin Ling to be a vulnerable child with him in a way that he refuses to be with the ornery Jiang Cheng. However, it is this same chapter, still, that we begin to see cracks in the relationship. Not long after the above interactions, Jin Ling runs into his childhood bullies. After Wei Wuxian helps him deal with it, this is what Jin Ling has to say:
Jin Ling glanced at him and couldn’t help but answered, “Why are you like this? My younger uncle has always advised against this, but you’re egging me on.”…
…Jin Ling’s face betrayed faint yearning, yet he still sounded contemptuous, “What are you talking about? Uncle’s advice is for my own good.”
–Chapt. 47: Guile, exr
Despite being Jin Ling’s guardian and leader of the Jin Clan, and despite being aware of the bullying Jin Ling is experiencing by his peers, Jin Guangyao’s solution is to tell Jin Ling… not to defend himself. We are given no other indication in the text, either through Jin Ling or other characters, that Jin Guangyao takes any other steps to mitigate this bullying. He simply washes his hands of the situation and leaves Jin Ling to fend for himself. Wei Wuxian even notes the strangeness of this, how a man who is so good at people-pleasing and reading the room would act ignorant on how to solve his nephew’s issues with socializing:
After a while of silence, he replied, “With Jin Ling’s temper, he offends other people whenever he opens his mouth, he pokes at the hornet’s nest whenever he raises his hand. Your sect’s JingYi calls him Young Mistress—well, he’s right. The many times before this, if it weren’t for how we protected him, he’d have no lives left. Jiang Cheng isn’t at all someone who knows how to teach children. Jin GuangYao, on the other hand…”
–Chapt. 47: Guile, exr
If not for Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji, Jin Ling would have been dead many times over, particularly at the goading of his maternal uncle, but Jin Guangyao seems illogically unaware of this. But is he really, or does he simply not value Jin Ling’s life outside of his facade as a loving uncle? Enter the second siege and Guanyin Temple, where Jin Guangyao’s true feelings towards his nephew are revealed. At the second siege, Jin Ling is amongst the kidnapped children used as bait to draw in the rest of the established cultivation clans, meaning that Jin Guangyao was perfectly willing to sacrifice his nephew to keep his secrets hidden. And when Jin Ling stumbles upon Guanyin Temple, Jin Guangyao continually betrays Jin Ling’s former affections, from not saying anything to stop his lackeys from taking fatal aim at his nephew, to ordering them to kill Fairy, to even personally threatening Jin Ling’s life:
Within the courtyard, all the cultivators were attentive and high-strung. With arrows drawn on their bows, they aimed at the gate, holding the bowstring tight, waiting for an order…
…The moment Jin Ling reached the top of the wall, he was confronted by an entire courtyard of bows drawn and aimed at him. His pupils shrunk instantly. One of the monks had either never seen Jin Ling before or had already prepared to annihilate any and all intruders. The monk released his bowstring and the arrow soared towards Jin Ling!
–Chapt. 98: A Hatred for Life Part 1, boat-full-of-lotus-pods
Jin GuangYao said, “Find it and kill it. This spiritual dog is very intelligent. We wouldn’t want her to lure over other people.”
“Yes sir!”
The monk left with a sword in his hand and the temple’s gate closed behind him. Jin Ling was beyond stunned. “You’re really going to kill her? You gave Fairy to me!”
–Chapt. 99: A Hatred For Life Part 2, boat-full-of-lotus-pods
Shrugging, Jin GuanYao smiled, “I can’t help it. Even after doing all the worst things imaginable, I still want the sympathy of others. That’s just the type of person I am.”
At the word “person”, he sudden flicked his wrist. A piece of red qin string looped around Jin Ling’s neck.
Jin GuangYao’s eyes were still brimming with tears when he warned in a low voice, “Don’t move!”
–Chapt. 106: A Hatred For Life Part 9, boat-full-of-lotus-pods
Jin Ling is completely surprised by this seemingly 180 his uncle has pulled on him. After all, this was the uncle that had appeared to care for him the most and that he regarded highly:
Jin Ling had always been close with his Youngest Uncle. In the past, Jin GuangYao had often doted on him. Even now, Jin GuangYao still had that pleasant, compassionate look on his face, but it would be near impossible for Jin Ling to ever see him with the same eyes again. Quietly, Jin Ling walked towards Wei WuXian and Lan XiChen, obediently standing by their side.
–Chapt. 99: A Hatred for Life Part 2, boat-full-of-lotus-pods
So what was the point? Why care for Jin Ling if he didn’t, you know, care about him? Well, simple: Jin Ling represents that perfect life Jin Guangyao thinks Jin Guangshan barred him from. When asked why Jin Guangyao plotted to kill Jin Zixuan, Jin Guangyao finally explains his reasoning:
Turning to Jin Ling, he continued, “A-Ling, can you tell me why then? Why is it that even though I always put up a smiling face for everyone, I rarely received one in return? Meanwhile, your father was arrogant and proud everywhere he went, yet everyone was always chasing after him? Can you tell why is it that, though we had the same father, why is it that your father could leisurely stay at home and tease his child with his most beloved wife while I, who barely dared to stay alone too long with my wife, who’s frightened every time I gaze upon my own son, got sent out to deal with these things by my own father as if it was only natural for me to handle them— to ambush an unstable, dangerous man who could lose control of his fierce corpses at any moment and turn everything into a massacre?!
“Why is it that, though we even shared the same birthday, Jin GuangShan could be throwing a lavish celebration for one of them while watching the other one get kicked off from the Koi Tower on the very same day, all the way from the top of the first stair down to the very bottom?!”
–Chapt. 106: A Hatred For Life Part 9, boat-full-of-lotus-pods
On the outside, Jin Guangyao had a perfect life similar to Jin Zixuan, but on the inside – from being trapped into marrying his sister, to unwittingly (or not) having an incest baby, to being forced to do his father’s dirty work – it was clearly inferior to his arrogant half-brother’s, who had to suffer nothing to be valued by their shared father. Jin Guangyao may have only truly hated Jin Guangshan in this equation, but that hatred made everyone else disposable to him. Jin Zixuan had to die and Mo Xuanyu had to be permanently banished because they stood in the way of Jin Guangyao inheriting what he thought was his due from his father. Jin Rusong had to be killed because he would have revealed the terrible deeds Jin Guangyao committed in the name of protecting his image for his father’s benefit, despite the original sin being committed by his father to begin with. However, Jin Ling was just useful enough to live, because Jin Guangyao couldn’t have another child with Qin Su now that he was fully aware that she was his sister, but he also couldn’t divorce her, cheat, or kill her without risking his alliance with the Qin Clan that helped solidify his power to begin with. So Jin Ling became his neat little pawn: a potential heir that makes his need for biological children unnecessary, but also one who is so endeared to him that Jin Ling (if he were ever to become clan leader) would serve as a new shield and enabler for whatever Jin Guangyao decided to do after he stepped down (if he ever stepped down).
And once Jin Guangyao’s actions are exposed to the cultivation world with his reputation in tatters, he no longer has a need to preserve his “nice uncle” facade to Jin Ling or spare his nephew’s feelings. Jin Ling is no longer useful to Jin Guangyao so they may as well be strangers, and Jin Ling is left to pick up the pieces of what he thought was a loving relationship with one of his last living close relatives who, in reality, only saw him as a bitter rival’s son. Unfortunately, this kind of abuse is more shattering to deal with once the betrayal happens and the victim has to face knowing that they meant nothing to someone they loved (with assumed reciprocity), more so than the overt physical and verbal abuse Jin Ling experienced from Jiang Cheng. But fortunately, Jin Ling has Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji to lean on as he deals with the emotional fallout of these reveals.
Keep reading
Do you have any posts about all the things the people who use demonic cultivation have in common?
I’m not sure I can explain it properly, but I came away from the book thinking that all the people who used demonic cultivation (either directly or through the Yin Tiger Tally) are very similar to one another in terms of their trauma, background, and status as cultivators.
They all have quite traumatic upbringings, either living on the streets for some time or otherwise mistreated as part of the serving class. While they end up with some form of sect alliance, they are only ever half accepted, with their common parentage being brought up quite often. They’re all stuck living on that razor edge of not quite acceptability.
It makes me think that demonic cultivation represents or reflects that sort of traumatic razor’s edge position. (Appropriate when they are literally using resentment).
The major difference between the demonic cultivators is how they decide to use the trauma they’ve been stuck with. Wei Ying does his best to channel it towards protecting people, while trying to minimize harm to the innocent (though some “splash damage” is inevitable), while Xue Yang and Jin Guangyao use it as an excuse to hurt others with impunity (trying to drag the whole world down with them if they must).
Hopefully I’ve made sense.
Hate to say it, but the only demonic cultivator in the text is Xue Yang. Wei Wuxian does not cultivate with mo (living humans) but gui (dead humans), which is why his cultivation is called the ghost path. A better wording would be about who strays from the orthodox path of cultivating, but even then, all of the “righteous” cultivation clans would fall under this because they use Wei Wuxian’s inventions that they stole after his death. Speaking just on the characters listed, though, Xue Yang uses living humans by turning them into living corpse puppets, making him a demonic cultivator, but he also still uses a sword and his golden core, meaning he never left the orthodox cultivation path.
Other than both being street orphans taken in by major clans as kids, Wei Wuxian and Xue Yang have nothing in common. Wei Wuxian had a moral code that he followed even on the street, while Xue Yang didn’t and made a name for himself being a terror before he became a cultivator. When they become cultivators, it is only Wei Wuxian who is disparaged for his background. Nobody ever calls Xue Yang a servant, insults his parentage, or treats him less than courteously, from what we are shown in the text, until he massacres the Chang Clan. He is a guest of the Jin, therefore making him practically untouchable. Now, bringing Jin Guangyao into this, yes he was disparaged in the beginning, but he was definitely accepted once he climbed his way into the clan leader position. People stopped bringing up his past and parentage due to it, because now he was in an accepted and traditional position of power.
The story isn’t about how the type of cultivation one uses represents a theme or says something about the person using it (other than the demonic cultivation because that one says a lot about Xue Yang who created it); it’s about how any cultivation path, orthodox or not, can be used for good or evil and what really matters is to look at the character of the person. Xue Yang and Jin Guangyao are greedy bastards who want to be universally feared (the former) and worshipped (the latter), and will sacrifice anyone or anything that goes against their plans to attain power. They both use sword cultivation to achieve these goals, even if they use other tools to aid. Xue Yang turns to demonic cultivation because he is not clever or powerful enough to use the ghost path as effectively as Wei Wuxian does nor does he have empathy or care for the living or dead which is necessary for the ghost path, so he takes shortcuts with horrific (intended) consequences, instead. Wei Wuxian made his name exclusively with the ghost path and only did so by doing what was right. But only Wei Wuxian was reviled for it until the very end.
In short, mxtx doesn’t write stories where you can use characters’ identities and backgrounds as shorthand for moral lessons. So while all three characters had their traumas and bad encounters with the “righteous” established cultivation clans, Xue Yang and Jin Guangyao are villains because they ultimately believed in the same system that abused them and, thus, strove to uphold it so that they could benefit from that power to oppress others, while Wei Wuxian is the hero for challenging that system and rejecting it for its corruption.
This makes it worse that he accused Mo Xuanyu of harassing him.
@mxtxfanatic do I remember correctly that there are Implications that JGY deliberately impregnated Qin Su after Madam Qin’s visit? As a way to force the wedding? Or was that a fanon sneaking in?
yeah whenever i see people like "jgy and lxc MUST have been in a relationship its basically canon" im like...watch out babe your amatnormativity is showing
It's so tiring as well as uncomfortably misogynistic since they just... pretend Qin Su doesn't exist or act as if Jin Guangyao hadn't actively courted her to play up a romance with Lan Xichen that doesn't exist. And I suppose I wouldn't be so salty but the constant idea that having such faith in someone MUST mean it's romantic or have romantic connotations for it to somehow be meaningful.
I'm the anon who's been reading ur SWaK fic! Thank you for answering the qi deviation question. it's making me see mdzs in a whole new light. I recently saw a post (askSythe on here) about the significance of the blood pool and how throwing bodies in there removes them from the reincarnation cycle and that's what the clans did to the Wen Remnants and JC is rumored to have led this siege and my heart HURTS. continuing this in next ask -
Hey there anon 👋🏻
I'm glad you're enjoying my fic ☺️
As for the post you are referencing, I had not come across this until you mentioned it in your ask and have since went in search of it in order to reply. From what I can gather from the notes, it seems to have garnered a lot of controversy and subsequent backlash against the person who posted it originally.
I don't want to criticise other people's posts (especially when they have already received so much negativity from it), but with all due respect, I don't feel this was MXTXs intention with the blood pool. There's no mention of it in any version I have and I've also had my friend check the entire original novel for the phrase '永不超生', which is quoted in the original post, and we can't locate that in the Chinese text either. Regardless of that, I don't feel such a claim fits with the rest of the novel.
I could be completely wrong, as it's not something I've really thought about, nor do I have the cultural knowledge of the specific concept the original post is referring to. But, if the Wen remnants were forever barred from reincarnating due to their corpses being thrown into and essentially trapped in an apparent 'unbreakable prison' (which they managed to escape), why would WWX set an array around the blood pool to stop corpses escaping when he lived there back in his first life? 🤔 How were all the corpses able to crawl out and run amok the minute a rampaging WN broke the seal around the pool? It just doesn't make much sense to do that if the fierce corpses residing within are already trapped there.
There's also the fact WWX uses the blood pool as well. Which makes me question this theory even more so. It goes against WWX's character and ethics to stop souls from reincarnating, when his very cultivation method involves empathy and 'spending' resentment so the entities can move on. Granted, WWX used the blood pool to nurture corpses resentment so he was able to harness it and direct it where required - in this case, I think it's most likely to replenish those guarding the base of the burial mounds and keeping the Wen remnants safe. In theory, the corpses residing there would eventually use up their resentment and their souls would move on. Hence the need for a supply of new fierce corpses he can utilise - which he helps move on in turn. I really don't think WWX would do such a thing if the blood pool was anything other than a collection of water that held strong resentment due to being contaminated by the many corpses already present in its depths. If anything, it's a similar situation to when he found the sword in the Xuanwu of Slaughter's stomach, which had been practically marinating in all the resentment of the beast's past victims.
Obviously the Wen remnants were unable to move on after being mercilessly slaughtered, but that is simply because they were denied a proper burial and unjustly murdered in what was a most violent, unprovoked attack. Once the blood corpses had spent their lingering resentment, saving the very people who had killed them and the man who tried so hard to protect them, they finally moved on and turned to ash - which WN promptly collected to ensure they could finally be put to rest respectfully, as they should have been long ago. I see no indication that they would not move on because they were left in the blood pool specifically.
Of course, the way the cultivators involved in the siege not only murdered innocent people, but then treated their victims corpses with such disgusting disrespect is utterly appalling. Even though there is no evidence that the blood pool acted as a type of supernatural prison of sorts, it does not subtract from what the cultivators did. They still made sure the Wen remnants could not rest in peace by their heartless actions regardless.
As for JCs involvement in the siege, it's not actually a rumour that he led the siege, he most certainly, unequivocally did. It's actually outright stated a few times in the novel. Even when WN mentioned as such, WWX did not correct him on that specific accusation. Later still JGY also mentions JCs involvement, right in front of the man in question no less, with no argument to the contrary. Finally, MXTX has also spoken about JCs involvement in leading the siege and confirmed he had indeed formulated a plan based on WWX's weaknesses, as the text suggests. He was very much the driving force of the whole thing, despite knowing the Wen remnants consisted of innocent people who were either weak, old, or a toddler. He is responsible for many people being brutally murdered and shows no remorse for it either - which speaks volumes about his character.
Is there a scene in the novel where Jiggy was looking like he was determining "there's no other choice" in koi tower before killing nmj? I saw a jgy fan said wwx as unreliable narrator since he "judge" jgy taunting nmj when he confronted him about XY as deliberate, whereas the fan thinks jgy didn't, and mention about a scene afterward where jgy being "helpless" before choosing to kill nmj.
I don't remember such a scene in the novel. But perhaps I'm just not being attentive. So is there really?
I don’t know what scene was being referenced, but it’s safe to say that nothing Jin Guangyao says until Guanyin Temple is true, and anything he says about his motivations until he discovers that he’s been played by Nie Huaisang is questionable at best. Wei Wuxian is not the narrator of mdzs, so his opinion of jgy’s morality or actions doesn’t account for whether or not jgy’s actions were right or wrong or whether he “meant” them. Jin Guangyao is a master gaslighter and we are shown this explicitly through in his introduction into the book, so I see no reason to jump through hoops to find which of his lies are total lies or half-truths. It all leads to the same place of justifying his need to murder people he doesn’t like. But whether or not a jgy stan thinks that jgy “wanted” to kill Nie Mingjue, he definitely wanted to dismember nmj’s body and keep his head as a trophy. Sounds like a choice he chose to make and not one where he was “helplessly” forced to do it, don’t it?
something about how both wei wuxian and jin guangyao repeatedly say they ‘didn’t have a choice’ in their actions. in both cases, it’s not literal impossibility, instead determined by their mindsets and personal conduct…. but while for wei wuxian that means he can’t do something immoral, even if it means losing all his social power, for jin guangyao it means he can’t do anything to lose his social power, even if it means doing something immoral. the other option is still there, but it’s never one they’d pick.
something about how they’re trying to walk the same path but in opposite directions: wei wuxian willingly left the nice, broad road in favour of upholding morals and debts, while jin guangyao is trying to claw onto it and stay there by any means necessary. in both cases, being parted from it so easily is only possible because this nice, broad road — full of people whose social power is unconditional, given at birth, independent of their actions — was never truly theirs to begin with. but despite how it is possible to be forced off due to nothing, as we see with wang lingjiao, the positions of both these characters were ultimately due to actions they took.
(about how no matter the similarity of the paths, no matter the narrowness of the choices, the direction you take is still up to you.)