And We Know That If Someone Brings This Up With Thomas Astruc, He'll Just Make Up Some BS About How They're

And we know that if someone brings this up with Thomas Astruc, he'll just make up some BS about how they're pure evil anyway and chose to side with Hawkmoth (14-year-olds willfully choosing evil without outside influences, yeah right), therefore they're absolutely irredeemable.

Chloé was literally retconned into an evil hateful bitch with (apparently) no intelligence to speak of and is later shipped to an abusive mother, and Lila went from a girl desperate for an absent mother's attention to a grifting mastermind with several identities and three mothers whom she fooled brilliantly.

But no, Gabriel Agreste (who emotionally neglected his son, terrorized Paris for over a year, and falsely imprisoned his own child) is the sympathetic redeemable one, all because he has a good reason—which is debatable—to do it.

Yes. Logic.

It’s honestly disgusting how two teenagers, who’s downfalls were specifically orchestrated by Hawkmoth, who has targeted them, egged them on, preyed on their insecurities, and spied on them

Are worse than him somehow.

It’s weird how stans will get on Lila and Chloe’s case for “siding with Hawkmoth” (ignoring that this is an adult taking advantage of people’s negative emotions but okay), but willingly ignored Hawkmoth holding Chloe’s parents hostage, cornering her, and using her insecurities to get her to side with him, as well as him and Nathalie spying on Lila, purposefully trying to aggravate her with targeted messages and groom her into being an akuma victim.

Weird of the narrative (and the fandom by extension) to continuously hate these teenagers, ignoring all depth, background, and the adults surrounding them that may make them act the way they do, but will always show sympathy to the adult terrorist manipulating them because he has a dead wife.

The problem with Marinette is that claiming her as "the best Ladybug ever" or "the best leader" gets moot when there's no measure. We hear nothing about other Ladybugs in the past, so there's no one to compare to as "the best Ladybug ever". And as "the best leader", there's also no one to compare her to. Of course she'd be the best leader—you can call yourself that however you want because there's no competition!

And as a "leader", she gets next to no challenge taking on a leadership role. She's just good at it. The point of writing a character, especially a main character like Marinette, is to challenge them. Give them struggle. Marinette doesn't struggle as a leader. She either makes a coincidentally-good choice with no backing from the story whatsoever (which is 90% of the time) or she fucks up and is told it's not her fault.

Every time Marinette forms a "team", everyone is magically amazing and is 100% obedient to Ladybug. If they weren't obedient (like Kagami) it gets resolved in the episode and then they're 100% cooperative like the rest. There's a difference between being a leader and just plain being the boss. Being the boss means you get the final say in choices and people do what you say. A leader inspires, leads, and is a big responsibility that should be treated as such, because your choices strongly impact the lives of the people that trust you.

I 100% agree on the five-man band. The "temporary heroes" concept feels just like a cheap excuse to make more costumes, but a single consistent team with their own dynamics—not just as heroes but also people—would help not only challenge Marinette's abilities, but to actually enrich the story and introduce more arcs that could help us become invested in what the show tries to preach.

Any fanfic I write always uses the original five-member team, because they didn't need to go away. It didn't need to change. And frankly, giving so many people different miraculouses for no other reason than "Marinette thinks they deserve it" actually devalues the importance of the miraculouses, since apparently anybody will do.

I like ML because it has a formula that I've never seen in superhero genre before, a girl as a leader whos also the brain of the team who's also one that have little to no emphaty paired with a boy who's the heart of the team that also a team mom yet the brawl at the same time. That premise is so good because usually it's the girl who is the heart of the team so this formula is good... In concept.

The problem is that the leader, aside from lacking in emphaty departemen is also very avoidant and self centered. Way too self centered to even notice the problem in her team and that's a very dangerous line to walk on. Of course usually this problem would be fixed when the heart of the team try to talk to the leader, that's how it's usually goes, right? Except the leader either keep dismissed him or outright ignore him which makes the conflict prolonged. The writers seems to be saying that she could do everything, even comforting her own teammate which she failed spectacularly.

Even now as s5 ended, I haven't seen Marinette as the leader, try to talk to Adrien about the problem. There's just no growth on her part. In fact, she double down in her secrets. At this point they're basically just keep the false peace.

In Timetagger Bunnyx said Ladybug is the best team leader, but with current dynamic and her lack of growth as of current, I feel like that assessment is as false as Fu's saying Marinette as the strongest Ladybug. Considering he only know ONE Ladybug holder. There's no base in those praise, just pure bias.

Yeah, like there's no growth going on for Marinette but that's probably because all the traits we see in her, being self centered and lacking in empathy, the writers didn't intend it. That's why there isn't an arc planned to resolve it. And it makes people claiming she's the best Ladybug ever when she doesn't have much to show for it under her belt.

But she ain't special.

I'd be ranting all day if I had to list every character that has a trait (good or bad) we all see but I doubt the writers saw it too, like Adrien being Marinette's equal or Chloe coming off as more sympathetic than intended in the early seasons. But then, when they do notice a character flaw a notable chunk of the fandom complains about... you get bullshit like Derision (to address Marinette being a "stalker"). Honestly, I'm more afraid of what they'd do to rectify this.

I can't say for other people, but for me, it's hard to be all, "Oh! They are queer!" I was mildly surprised to learn Ms. Bustier had a girlfriend, like, "Oh, okay. So she has a girlfriend." Not much to think about, just a nice tidbit into her life—which is one of the only glimpses we got, other than, "She's a nice teacher."

ZOÉ THO.

I was actually pissed. Not because she was LGBTQ, but because it felt like another excuse to make another person in love with Marinette. We already have Adrien, Luka (Nathaniel & Nino, albeit formerly), even that damn sculptor! And now Zoé is part of the bandwagon!

Like, BLEGH! I already get it, Marinette is so treasured and lovable and she should be worshipped by everyone in the show, and anyone who says otherwise—*cough* Chloé *cough*—should be razed and burned.

Also, maybe show more attention to the other possible/maybe confirmed (no idea) pairings, and show their growing romance (PDAs are possible, just not crazy ones).

I'm not gonna lie, while I do think Miss. Bustier and her girlfriend Giselle (from Collusion) are cute, I still have problems with it for two reasons:

1. It feels like a mega slap in the face to those who wanted LGBTQ rep in the show for the longest time with other characters such as Marc or Rose, only to have them either water down or give out subtle but barely any hints if they were queer or not.

2. Why Bustier of all people? Okay, she’s a nice teacher. So? Nice doesn't mean shit. Hell, being gay/trans/queer doesn't mean shit either if you aren't gonna do shit about it. So why did they make Bustier of all people Sapphic? Hell, why did they make both Bustier and Zoe Sapphic of all characters? So the audience can root or side with them when Chloe shits on them? Is that it? No hun, it doesn't work that way.

In conclusion, while it's great to finally see some sapphic/queer rep from the show as well as some interracial same sex relationships rep, I hate how it was only done to Bustier/Zoe because once again:

Chloe = Irredeemable

To be honest, I never got the whole "Ms. Bustier and Zoe are both gay to make Chloe look worse" argument.

Yes, the revelation of their respective sexualities helps expand on their characters, but whenever Chloe attacks them, it's never based on their sexuality. We don't get any homophobic comments from Chloe like when she was racist to Marinette's uncle in "Kung Food", and the show never makes her out to be discriminatory towards the LGBT community.

I'm not saying this is a positive trait Chloe should be commended for, but unlike with her racism in "Kung Food", there's no evidence from canon to back up the idea of her being homophobic, much less use this as an excuse to villify her even further for bullying characters who happen to be gay.

Saw this guy and now:

Gotta find and read/watch this.

Izutsumi “Asebi” (イヅツミ) - Dungeon Meshi - Episode 20

For me: Miraculous Ladybug and High Guardian Spice (both of which I have fanfics for)

I think I finally understand why people write fanfiction. it’s so aggravating when a piece of media doesn’t engage with its premise - like maybe the implications were too dark, maybe if we followed it to its logical conclusion the main character would be irredeemable, maybe it’s too complicated, maybe it’s too flavourful (weird, horny, unflattering) so we only get a liiiitle bit of it sprinkled on top of an otherwise generic story

whatever the reason, we end up with a diet lite homogenized version of what the initial story promised us. it makes me pace around my house biting at my thumb, going “no…..no it could’ve been better…..I could’ve made it better…..”

Orange