Bruh.

Bruh.

I'm with you. Catholic here, and oh my Lord.... Please, let this not be true. Let it be ragebait or something else, just not true.

Just popping in to remind you that asstwat has publicly stated that Jesus was a miraculous wielder. Not the ladybug though, he made sure to mention that

Trust me, I’ve been holding back my catholic indignation

I don't remember the exact phrasing anymore, but I remember seeing something that said: plot twists are not there to surprise the audience or shock them. They're there to enrich the story.

Basically, don't focus on the shock value. Focus on how the plot twist impacts your story and the characters in it. If your audience guesses your plot twist from subtle foreshadowing, then that's good. If your plot twist has shock value but none of the enrichment, then it's a useless foreshadow.

I miss the "Gabriel is Hawkmoth" foreshadow during Simon Says and the book Adrien found in Volpina. Since the episodes are pretty close together, it works. But then later episodes with plot twists just fail miserably, with no other answer except "we already wrote the script, so deal with it".

I think part of what fails in the Chloé betrayal and Adrien/Felix sentimonster thing is that in order to foreshadow correctly, attention needs to be paid to these specific characters, so the screen has to shift to them and their personal lives. But 99% of the episodes center around Marinette and how she navigates life, so there's next to no focus set on them unless she's involved—and unfortunately, putting her in the loop would be too problematic to address in the show's long run.

The reason behind using Chloé early on is actually pretty simple. The writers for ML have never met a twist they didn't like. they seem obsessed with outsmarting their audience. ( target 6-10yr olds, go team) Everything is a red herring of some kind until it isn't bit it is but not and whoa did we blow your mind yet?

I'm reminded of an OSP quote along the lines of 'You can only surprise your audience on the first viewing, but a good narrative can be enjoyed any number of times.'

Exactly. Plot twists aren't just there to surprise the audience. They also give rewatch value to the work.

Take Puss in Boots: The Last Wish for example. The twist of the Wolf actually being the Grim Reaper is shocking, yes, but rewatching the movie gives new meaning to the things he does. Just rewatch his first scene and see what I mean. Not only does the Wolf appear from out of nowhere like a ghost, he also points to the word "Dead" in the "Dead or Alive" on Puss' wanted poster, and wields a pair of sickles as his weapons.

It also makes you rethink the things he says to Puss during their conversation.

"Been following you for a long time." - The Wolf has taken eight of Puss' nine lives, so he's more than familiar with him.

"Everyone thinks they'll be the one to defeat me. But no one's escaped me yet." - Being Death itself, the Wolf has been there for everyone's eventual passing.

"So I've heard..." - A direct response to Puss' claim that he laughs in the face of death, which the Wolf is naturally insulted by.

Plot twists and foreshadowing go together well, but you need to make sure the audience has enough hints to either figure it out themselves or to recognize the buildup to the twist on a second viewing. Miraculous Ladybug does neither of those. Things like Chloe's betrayal and the other rich kids being Sentimonsters just come out of nowhere and don't hold up when you rewatch earlier episodes and see no foreshadowing for those revelations.

The problem with Marinette is that claiming her as "the best Ladybug ever" or "the best leader" gets moot when there's no measure. We hear nothing about other Ladybugs in the past, so there's no one to compare to as "the best Ladybug ever". And as "the best leader", there's also no one to compare her to. Of course she'd be the best leader—you can call yourself that however you want because there's no competition!

And as a "leader", she gets next to no challenge taking on a leadership role. She's just good at it. The point of writing a character, especially a main character like Marinette, is to challenge them. Give them struggle. Marinette doesn't struggle as a leader. She either makes a coincidentally-good choice with no backing from the story whatsoever (which is 90% of the time) or she fucks up and is told it's not her fault.

Every time Marinette forms a "team", everyone is magically amazing and is 100% obedient to Ladybug. If they weren't obedient (like Kagami) it gets resolved in the episode and then they're 100% cooperative like the rest. There's a difference between being a leader and just plain being the boss. Being the boss means you get the final say in choices and people do what you say. A leader inspires, leads, and is a big responsibility that should be treated as such, because your choices strongly impact the lives of the people that trust you.

I 100% agree on the five-man band. The "temporary heroes" concept feels just like a cheap excuse to make more costumes, but a single consistent team with their own dynamics—not just as heroes but also people—would help not only challenge Marinette's abilities, but to actually enrich the story and introduce more arcs that could help us become invested in what the show tries to preach.

Any fanfic I write always uses the original five-member team, because they didn't need to go away. It didn't need to change. And frankly, giving so many people different miraculouses for no other reason than "Marinette thinks they deserve it" actually devalues the importance of the miraculouses, since apparently anybody will do.

I like ML because it has a formula that I've never seen in superhero genre before, a girl as a leader whos also the brain of the team who's also one that have little to no emphaty paired with a boy who's the heart of the team that also a team mom yet the brawl at the same time. That premise is so good because usually it's the girl who is the heart of the team so this formula is good... In concept.

The problem is that the leader, aside from lacking in emphaty departemen is also very avoidant and self centered. Way too self centered to even notice the problem in her team and that's a very dangerous line to walk on. Of course usually this problem would be fixed when the heart of the team try to talk to the leader, that's how it's usually goes, right? Except the leader either keep dismissed him or outright ignore him which makes the conflict prolonged. The writers seems to be saying that she could do everything, even comforting her own teammate which she failed spectacularly.

Even now as s5 ended, I haven't seen Marinette as the leader, try to talk to Adrien about the problem. There's just no growth on her part. In fact, she double down in her secrets. At this point they're basically just keep the false peace.

In Timetagger Bunnyx said Ladybug is the best team leader, but with current dynamic and her lack of growth as of current, I feel like that assessment is as false as Fu's saying Marinette as the strongest Ladybug. Considering he only know ONE Ladybug holder. There's no base in those praise, just pure bias.

Yeah, like there's no growth going on for Marinette but that's probably because all the traits we see in her, being self centered and lacking in empathy, the writers didn't intend it. That's why there isn't an arc planned to resolve it. And it makes people claiming she's the best Ladybug ever when she doesn't have much to show for it under her belt.

But she ain't special.

I'd be ranting all day if I had to list every character that has a trait (good or bad) we all see but I doubt the writers saw it too, like Adrien being Marinette's equal or Chloe coming off as more sympathetic than intended in the early seasons. But then, when they do notice a character flaw a notable chunk of the fandom complains about... you get bullshit like Derision (to address Marinette being a "stalker"). Honestly, I'm more afraid of what they'd do to rectify this.

I get it.

But if Ephemeral was supposed to be the starting point for the strife in Kuro Neko, it was done badly. In Kuro Neko, it doesn't sound like Cat Noir just slowly began withdrawing. Rather, it implies that Ladybug brings out so many heroes that he sees it as pointless to show up.

Hell, the thing Ladybug tells him at the end of the day, "Just because I don't need you all the time doesn't mean I don't need you at all", just further implies that he was nudged out of the circle.

I don't know if Ephemeral and Kuro Neko are [meant to be] connected, but if they are, TA did a bad job at it, because finding the end of yarn in the middle of the skein is easier than this (and I'd already done that multiple times).

What did you think if the episode kuro neko? For me it was peak „Lady//noir toxicity“, how LB yells at CN and then CN abandoning his position as one of the two most important heroes of the city only to later gaslight LB into thinking he‘s a completely different person. Even if they talked it out at the end, it was just… idk, that episode was really the nail in the coffin for the ship imo

I actually think Ladybug was pretty reasonable in Kuro Neko. She only yells at Chat Noir when he's running down her timer by keeping her from her Guardian duties even though he just missed an akuma fight, making her have to call in a whole slew of heros and defend his absence on the news. It's like the writers wanted her to look good even though she's supposed to be the source of season four's conflict, I think? Idk, the writing is just a mess.

I've talked about how the communication issues in that episode and it lead up drive me up a wall, but I don't think I've talked about how messed up it was for Adrien to come back like that. It was a dick move for sure. However, I mostly lay the blame on Plagg and Tikki's shoulders because Plagg is the one who came up with this idea and Tikki let him go through with it. They're supposed to be the mentors here and they are failing their Chosen hard in this episode and season four in general. Just terrible writing no matter how you look at it. I have no idea what the writers were aiming for in this episode. It was like a tiny preview of how much they were going to mess up with Kwami's Choice in season five.

When a hero quits, you're supposed to show the audience that no one can take their place because of who the hero is. Instead we get told that Catwalker was perfectly fine, but Ladybug can't handle competence without falling in love? And Kwami's Choice basically said that Adrien and Marinette could be easily replaced if it weren't for the Aliance rings. I just... this is a classic, beginner-level trope. How do you mess it up this badly?

I think "actually evil all along" Emilie would make more sense than Lila replacing hawkmoth and the former would still massively suck! So that's saying a lot.

It says a lot when the majority of the fandon isn't excited to see Lila take over as the main villain, and instead suggest ideas for other main villains who are actually old enough to drive.

I can't say for other people, but for me, it's hard to be all, "Oh! They are queer!" I was mildly surprised to learn Ms. Bustier had a girlfriend, like, "Oh, okay. So she has a girlfriend." Not much to think about, just a nice tidbit into her life—which is one of the only glimpses we got, other than, "She's a nice teacher."

ZOÉ THO.

I was actually pissed. Not because she was LGBTQ, but because it felt like another excuse to make another person in love with Marinette. We already have Adrien, Luka (Nathaniel & Nino, albeit formerly), even that damn sculptor! And now Zoé is part of the bandwagon!

Like, BLEGH! I already get it, Marinette is so treasured and lovable and she should be worshipped by everyone in the show, and anyone who says otherwise—*cough* Chloé *cough*—should be razed and burned.

Also, maybe show more attention to the other possible/maybe confirmed (no idea) pairings, and show their growing romance (PDAs are possible, just not crazy ones).

I'm not gonna lie, while I do think Miss. Bustier and her girlfriend Giselle (from Collusion) are cute, I still have problems with it for two reasons:

1. It feels like a mega slap in the face to those who wanted LGBTQ rep in the show for the longest time with other characters such as Marc or Rose, only to have them either water down or give out subtle but barely any hints if they were queer or not.

2. Why Bustier of all people? Okay, she’s a nice teacher. So? Nice doesn't mean shit. Hell, being gay/trans/queer doesn't mean shit either if you aren't gonna do shit about it. So why did they make Bustier of all people Sapphic? Hell, why did they make both Bustier and Zoe Sapphic of all characters? So the audience can root or side with them when Chloe shits on them? Is that it? No hun, it doesn't work that way.

In conclusion, while it's great to finally see some sapphic/queer rep from the show as well as some interracial same sex relationships rep, I hate how it was only done to Bustier/Zoe because once again:

Chloe = Irredeemable

To be honest, I never got the whole "Ms. Bustier and Zoe are both gay to make Chloe look worse" argument.

Yes, the revelation of their respective sexualities helps expand on their characters, but whenever Chloe attacks them, it's never based on their sexuality. We don't get any homophobic comments from Chloe like when she was racist to Marinette's uncle in "Kung Food", and the show never makes her out to be discriminatory towards the LGBT community.

I'm not saying this is a positive trait Chloe should be commended for, but unlike with her racism in "Kung Food", there's no evidence from canon to back up the idea of her being homophobic, much less use this as an excuse to villify her even further for bullying characters who happen to be gay.