You Know, I Was Kinda Worried When They Skipped Peach That We Wouldn't See Her At All. But Now I Just

You know, I was kinda worried when they skipped Peach that we wouldn't see her at all. But now I just find it hilarious that they saved her cameo for for advertising an airline.

How Digimon Universe Invokes Myth

I had a horrible, horrible epiphany about Appmon that I am compelled to share.

So, as I was writing my Appmon analysis thoughts, considering how Appmons main thesis of using kindness to fight the singularity and how that stands in antithesis to the self-fulfilling prophecies so common in myth where going out of your way to fight something is what makes it come to pass in the first place. The most notable example to me was the Greek Myth where Uranus was overthrown by his children who he prevented from being born, hurting their mother Gaia in the process. In turn his son, Cronus, was overthrown by his children whom he ate, and his son Zeus, who was prophesied to be overthrown by his son, consumed his child’s mother before he could conceive the child of his doom. And the God Grades were named after Greek gods this season. In my head this was a sort of side note. A cool little detail. Not that this is exclusive to myth (hey Kung Fu Panda II) or anything. But myths are the foundation of human storytelling. Even today it’s something that gets used quite a lot. Because it's such a terrible, human concept. Using violence out of fear against people motivates them to want to use violence against you.

Now if you want a recap of what I said somewhere else that I don’t care to look for, Appmon argues against it, basically Appmon is a battle between Denemon’s children. While one of his children goes rogue and kills him, fulfilling the prophecy of the singularity. He does not overthrow humanity because ultimately through the kindness he (and Haru) showed, Minerva (and Yuujin and the Appmon), remained loyal to humanity. Even though Appmon grew strong enough to overthrow humanity, they didn’t. Now I have an additional thought, that being Uranus, while defeated, still exists as the sky. Just like Denemon, though killed still exists. Does that mean anything? I don’t know.

Then I was thinking about how Digimon does gender in all its different seasons. And how Appmon was the most baffling. Because okay. Digimon aren’t consistent and they can have gender sometimes. But those are usually in the series where digimon aren’t man-created AI. So what the heck Appmon. Why do you have gender? And your appmon have parents? Parents have only been used for digimon in Xros (the season infamous for implying digimon sex), and Frontier, where digimon very much so had gender, but also were born from reincarnating eggs whose gender did not seem set in stone. Both seasons, which took the more “Digimon are naturally existing fantasy monsters” rather than “Digimon are AI monsters born from human influence” approaches. Are they AI born from humans? You can’t give me two completely conflicting stories about Appmon’s existence. 

Or can you?

So I’ve taken a few classes on myth and religion through the years. And unfortunately due to reasons I have mythology fresh on the brain. But the idea that myth contains conflicting stories about things is one that was discussed. Myths generally weren’t told as one continuous story of truths. They were told as independent stories. While they were regarded as truths, you weren’t supposed to think deeply about the discrepancies because these are stories of the divine. Beyond perfect human understanding. The individual stories each said something about the society. Each story held its own truth, relying on a consistent cast of characters. An example is how there are two, semi-conflicting stories of the creation of man in Genesis. This results from the fact that at one point these were two separate stories, each meant to illustrate a point about the world. It was only after they were gathered and codified did we consider them part of one story.

But this also got me to remember what gods are. They are divine representations of things. For instance it is not that Gaia represents the earth or governs it. It is that Gaia is the earth. Hades is also the name for the underworld. Gatchmon is a search app. Appmon are to Gods, the way Apps are to natural phenomenon. Appmon are modern gods. Now this isn’t the first time Digimon tipped its toes into myth. It has digimon who are representatives of all sorts of preexisting myths. But they don’t enact these myths. Perhaps they will be referenced as having godlike influence in their reference books, but they will not be worshiped like gods in the texts (anime, Manga, games) themselves. They invoke these myths, but they are not myths themselves.

The apps are personified in the way the gods are personified. Gatchmon is like a human comprehension of the search engine. Search engines exist, finding and sorting knowledge in ways that are beyond the average human comprehension. Search engine giving irrelevant knowledge? Gatchmon messing with you. Search engine giving you the perfect search result. Gatchmon. Music app algorithm playing songs you hate? Musimon. Music app playing the exact song you were in the mood for? Musimon. Phone randomly reboots… Rebootmon. In the same way the gods of myth toyed with human lives, causing them pain and suffering. Disease, love and fertility were all products of the gods. Appmon toy with humans in the same way. People earn the favor of the AI the same way the Greeks earned the favor of the Gods. Through sacrifice. In this case the sacrifice of their personal data.

So how can apps have parents? And go to school? And have genders? The same way that God’s have gender, have affairs and have parents. The way. Appmon live an existence beyond human comprehension and beyond the human flow of time. Appmon go to school for the same reason that there are myths of the gods cheating, and fighting and stealing among each other getting into petty grudges. App Fusion charts is like the genealogy of the gods. But for the Apps. It is the way that some Apps use other Apps to improve their functions. The way search apps will reference locations or the weather if you ask it to look those things up. The way Apps relate to each other, communicating using AI that builds upon each other. We wouldn’t have video calls if it weren’t for camera apps or phone calls already existing. The stories of the Appmon going to school, or having parents is the representative explanation for why things are the way they are. This app was never released? It failed app school. This App references these two? Those two Apps are its parents. Some Apps come into existence fully formed. Some do have parents. SOME APPS ARE BOTH, THE TRUTH NOT UNDERSTOOD BY MORTAL MEANS AND ONLY RELEVANT TO THE STORY THAT IS BEING TOLD. APPMON ARE MERELY OUR COMPREHENSION OF THE FORCES THAT GOVERN OUR LIVES.

 So now having established that, Appmon is a modern myth. A story of what’s to come, and the characters, the Apps, that rule our modern lives. Digimon Universe is the Ragnarok, the Book of Revelations of our modern age. Obviously it is not a true myth. It’s a children’s show. But it invokes the patterns of myth so I’m calling it as I see it.

AITA for choosing to kill my best friend?

I (M14) am part of a group dedicated to preventing the take over of an evil AI (L) that split off from my grandfathers creation (M). Turns out my best friend, lets call him YJ (M14… kinda?), was an AI created by L in order to spy on me. Anyway, YJ didn't actually know about this until L activated some sort of override of his free will and used him to gain access to a strong power that allowed him to enslave all of humanity and turn them into AIs.

Anyway, we thought we managed to get him on the ropes, though M was destroyed in the process, but L at the last moment issued an ultimatum to me. I could delete L, and by extension YJ or let YJ live, but humanity would be imprisoned, and I only had 60 seconds to make a decision. I chose to delete YJ and L and save humanity. I did promise to study AI to revive YJ in the future.

But right before I could press the button YJ regained enough control to stop me and press the button himself, so I wasn't actually the one to kill him. He said it was so I wouldn't have to. But I still feel bad because he felt he had to delete himself and I was going to do it myself otherwise.

Especially since it seems M may have known YJ was an android made by L when she recruited him to our side, and she may have been counting on his decision all along. M saved our life and helped us take out L, and sacrificed herself in the process. But she still asked YJ "if there was someone he would give his life to protect" as his test for joining our team. I feel guilty that I didn't notice how suspicious that question was before and that I hadn't been as worried about his self-sacrificial tendencies before.

I know that we didn't really have a choice and it was either that or let all of humanity die. But I worry that he may not have appreciated himself enough or made him think he wasn't important.

AITA for not noticing that M was setting up YJ to sacrifice himself?

Mimi notably never directly refers to Yamato over the course of both adventure and 02. However there IS an implication of interactions in the first half of the show.

Mimi is one of the youngest in the group. Though she and Koshiro are the same age, Koshiro's quiet serious nature and computer skills often lead him to be treated more seriously while Mimi's penchant for complaining (no matter how justified), makes her treated a little more like a junior. There's a hierarchy of protection, that Mimi sits only above Takeru for. Mimi, being on the younger side, is more free to complain about her situation. Sora clearly looks after Mimi as the senior girl, as does Joe as the oldest over all, but Yamato also seems to look after her, at least in the first half of the season, as an extension of looking after Takeru. For instance, very early in the series, Yamato advocated for taking a break, presumably on behalf of Takeru, but it was both Takeru and Mimi who were struggling. And in episodes 5, 7, and 19 Yamato seems to be tasked with looking after the younger kids, Takeru and Mimi, Koshiro sometimes, even if I don't think it was necessarily purposeful in 5.

As such while we don't see much of Yamato and Mimi directly interacting it does stand to reason that they get along and do work well together. Yamato is generally rather considerate of people's negative emotions, such as with how he treated Sora's breakdown in episode 26 and how he handled Mimi's graves early in the dark masters arc. I would imagine that Yamato is relatively tolerant of Mimi's complaining. Conversely I would imagine Yamato is someone who Mimi holds a lot of respect for.

As a side note, the fact Taichi leaves Hikari in Yamato's care I think also speaks to Yamato's unspoken role of "babysitter", the complimentary shield to the role of sword Taichi plays. Yamato's tendency to prioritize the group's well being, over Taichi's tendency to take initiative and confront enemies. It also of course makes sense in the context of their crests, Taichi is courage (to do things), and Yamato's is friendship (to look after people).

And of course on the other side we get Joe Taichi and Sora as a group, the initiative takers, the ones who are more likely to do a dangerous job. Joe who went out in episode 7, Taichi and Sora who went to find him. Those three were the ones dealing with Andromon while the others looked around the factory, and the ones who went in for Sora's crest. Koshiro goes either way depending on if his skills are necessary or not.

I wonder if we still would have gotten a cure cameo of peach if she hadn't been one of the lead cures. How much were they willing to invest in that bit?

You know, I was kinda worried when they skipped Peach that we wouldn't see her at all. But now I just find it hilarious that they saved her cameo for for advertising an airline.

Why I think Ryo is the Ken of Survive.

Obviously, all the Survive kids are meant to reflect one of the 8 original Adventure kids. However, the characters aren't completely one to one, as each of the characters are in fact, unique characters in their own right. (Most evident I think is in the fact I'd assign basically every character except for Miyuki a different crest from their adventure counterpart). But they do echo the basic archetype of the role each adventure character played in the series. For the most part this is self explanatory, some more than others.

Takuma is Taichi Minoru is Koshiro (Less obvious but that's a separate point) Aoi is Sora Shuuji is Joe Saki is Mimi Kaito is Yamato Miu is Takeru Miyuki is Hikari

However, Survive has 10 important human/digimon partnerships.

The sole adult of the group, the professor, even bares some resemblance to a rather important "old man" of adventure, Gennai. An old man who knows a lot of their situation, was involved in the "inciting incident" looks after the kids to a certain extent, but is rather unreliable and has amnesia regarding some very important things he should know. Of course original Gennai isn't even really human, and therefore doesn't have a digimon partner, (Jijimon also takes on some Gennai traits imo) but Akiharu I would still say parallels Gennai.

However, Ryo doesn't match any of the original adventure cast. But I think it is fair to say he resembles Ken. Ryo has a worm digimon. Ryo has a family member whose death deeply affected him. Ryo is grumpy and aggressive, while hiding a secretly gentler and hurting side. Ryo is self-destructive, at the cost of his partner.

Ryo can't be Adventure Ken really, because Adventure Ken doesn't really exist. But Ken isn't exactly an 02 kid in the way Daisuke, Iori and Miyako are. A reoccurring theme in 02 is the difference in outlook between the Adventure kids, the Adventure and 02 kids, and the 02 exclusive kids. And so Ken is in no way one of the original Adventure kids, but there is something to be said of the fact that his (executive meddling hellscape) backstory reflects experiences of Takeru, Hikari, more than it does the other 02 original kids. He even has an associated crest. In many ways, Ken is a retroactive Adventure character, without actually being an Adventure character. Ken in the context of digimon Adventure 02 is very much so an example if a character like Takeru had been driven to the darkness, who then had to be rehabilitated by a set of characters with an outside perspective. Really that is what all of 02s Jogresses is really, the new kids helping the more experienced kids deal with their unprocessed issues. Miyako helps Hikari look out for herself, Iori helps Takeru stop lashing out in anger from keeping his emotions hidden, and Daisuke helps Ken see value in his own continued existence.

Which is why I think Ryo is a homage to Ken. It's not the "Adventure Ken" that theoretically exists, the little boy wondering around the digital world with Wonderswan Ryo or whatever did or did not happen in that unreliable backstory, but 02 Ken, the Ken after the trauma, who needs SOMEONE to connect with him to help save him. He's the sole character who is taken from 02 era rather than the first Adventure era. And 02's themes are in this character. Ryo dies in part due to hopelessness and depression. He is unsavable the first playthrough. Unsavable in the initial adventure context. The original context where the focus is on survival and connection with your own digimon. Wormmon couldn't Save Ken alone. just as Kunemon couldn't. Both Wormmon and Kunemon die in desperate attempts to try and save their partners (really from themselves). But Ryo is saved from death when you can manage to become friends with him. When you connect with him, not unlike how Daisuke managed to save Ken. And from there, Ryo manages to save other people (Shuuji) from falling into that same despair, not unlike how Ken tried to reach out to the dark spore kids. It's noteworthy that of the 3 initial endings, the moral route is the closest to the truthful route, but aside from Ryo and Shuuji has one key difference. It ends like the original Adventure did, the kids and their partners separating, while the truthful route has the kids and their partners living together, invoking the 02 ending. While the Harmony and Wrathful routes do also bear a resemblance to 02's ending, just relatively less optimistically, Harmony and Wrathful routes involve the failings of personal connections. The failure to understand each other. Ultimately the truthful route resolves peacefully, even the big bad reconciling with his sister, no longer feeling the need to lash out at others. Ryo is the factor that takes this adventure and adds a bit of 02 to it, 02 in this context being the importance of connection. 02 being what makes the happy ending.

It's not a 1 to 1, after all, all of the characters are different from their adventure counterpart, and take pieces from one another. For example, its Minoru that has the parental divorce backstory, and Miyuki is a protective older sister to the professor, not a younger sister to Takuma, and the Professor is the most curious about the digital world's nature, and is the one with the digimon partner Gabumon. Saki is the one hesitating the most about going home at all rather than being the one to bring it up the most. I'd say Ryo also has elements of Joe in his fear of his partner and for being an unreliable older kid, and Shuuji has elements of Ken in his cruelty of Lopmon, and insistence on authority and desire to measure up against an older brother with whom he has a flawed relationship. Really none of these kids match up one to one with the adventure kids, and that's great, but I think it is fair to say that as far as analogies go, Ryo does draw from Ken.

02 is an extension of Adventure, and despite their differences in plot, theme and character arcs, no discussion of Adventure will ever be truly complete without discussing certain elements of 02 in relation to that, particularly 02s epilogue and what it means thematically. Ryo is a reflection of Ken, and how his story and needs were a reflection of the themes of 02, and how those themes were built off of the themes of Adventure. How Ken needed something that was not as prevalent in Adventure. Naturally, I think the "truthful" story of survive, would have to be a route that includes elements of 02 no matter how faithful it is to other Adventure themes otherwise.