Hi! This Is About Your Aspec, BTS And Shipping Discussion.

Hi! This is about your aspec, BTS and shipping discussion.

I am very new to this fandom and I needed some time to come to conclusion about what Jikook are to each other in my personal opinion. What I settled on is that they undoubtedly have (or at least still had at the time of their last prolonged shared public appearance last December) a very, very close, intense relationship. I have doubts that it is platonic, but I can’t be sure 100%. And frankly, I don’t care about the exact nature of their relationship, because canon has never stopped me from shipping whatever the hell I want.

Now, in the process of coming to this conclusion, I've encountered a lot of posts that analyzed some of Jikook interactions, or answered some insecure shippers, or trolls pretending to be insecure shippers. Sometimes there were remarks that people who weren’t convinced by all the obvious Jikook moments/behaviors, didn’t see that Jikook were queer/together MUST be homophobic (or delusional cultists from the other side of the ship war, or both). And it always made me uncomfortable, because what about people like me?

I think of myself as being somewhere on the ace spectrum (with a side of being shit at human interactions in general). I’ve always been confused by/blind to a large degree to intricacies of outward expressions of people’s romantic/sexual relationships. I don’t notice it unless it is very, very obvious. I am a real-life representation of an “Oblivious Character X” fanfic trope. I am an oblivious fool who doesn’t recognize when they are flirting, who gets invited and taken on a date and doesn’t realize what’s happening until it’s too late. I also have difficulties recognizing these behaviors between other people/couples both in RL or in media (it goes both for queer and het relationships).

I can’t know for sure, but I think that if I just watched BTS content (like AYS for example) without being primed for shipping, I most likely would have read Jikook as just really good friends (lol) and even if I noticed anything sus they do, most likely I would have rationalized it as cultural differences and fanservice. And I don’t think homophobia has anything to do with it in this case.

I don’t have any actual question to ask, so sorry for rambling and thank you for reading if you did, also for sharing your thoughts in your previous posts.

Hi anon,

Thank you for sending this in as you've demonstrated the point I was making. These posts were not about any of the member's themselves but about the harm to those of us out here that do fall into other sexualties and the erasure we feel when certain declarations are continuously made with no challenges.

It's definitely been interesting to see the anons pouring into my inbox in the past day though. It's exceedingly clear that they don't even read the actual posts and just want to argue for the sake of arguing. They'll have to go do it elsewhere, though as I said, I wouldn't be posting any that aren't made in good faith and are willing to have a nuanced discussion.

Are You Sure?!

Episodes 5 & 6 Notes

It was very fortuitous that I've been so busy over the last couple of weeks as I really needed both of these episodes together to make sense of my thoughts. This post is definitely far more conceptual than my last ones so if you're up for it, click on though the cut!

AYS's Main Character?

I would like to propose that AYS has a main character OTHER than the individual humans we're following along on screen. (I warned you, this post was going to be conceptual.) And the main character is the relationship itself, how each of the members relate to one another.

Here's Google's AI overview on what this concept means:

A story can center on the relationship between characters as the primary protagonist, with the dynamic and evolution of that connection acting as the main driving force of the narrative, rather than the individual characters themselves.

Key points to consider:

Relationship-centric stories: Many genres, particularly romance, often focus heavily on the relationship between the main characters, exploring its complexities, challenges, and growth throughout the story.

No single protagonist: In such cases, the "character" is the bond between the individuals, not just one person's perspective or journey.

Exploring the dynamic: The narrative would then focus on how the relationship changes, adapts, and reacts to external situations or internal conflicts.

Examples:

"Before Sunrise": The entire plot revolves around the single night encounter between two strangers, with the developing connection being the central focus.

"Brokeback Mountain": The story primarily explores the forbidden love between two cowboys, highlighting the complexities of their relationship in a restrictive environment.

"Steel Magnolias ": A group of girls in a small town in Louisiana experience grief together, including weddings, fatal illnesses, and the loss of loved ones.

Now before anyone comes for me saying I'm just pitching an argument for xyz fanwar, please note that I included the above just to illustrate the concept of a non-person main character rather than stating any of the above are comparisons to the individual member's relationships. We're talking about a show that was produced and distributed for entertainment, nothing further.

Episode 5

My main feeling after finally being able to watch episode 5 was overall unsettled. There was something sticking with me about that episode and I could NOT figure out what it was.

I knew I was feeling like the entire episode was stretched well beyond what the footage wanted for a complete episode. I'm all for getting to spend more time with our fellas but the Jeju trip would have benefited from being cut down to 2 episodes rather than 3, in my opinion.

There was just a whole lotta nothing happening. The guys eat, travel around a little bit, and eat some more. I had some vague thoughts about how I could quantify some data for y'all to explain this point but then it was time for the next episode...

vs. Episode 6

And what an absolutely lovely breath of fresh air this episode was. I know there have been some Run eps that I review with a smile on my face throughout the whole episode but AYS6?? That was 73 minutes of pure bliss.

So I started thinking about what must be different between the two eps. The guys eat, travel around a little bit, and eat some more...wait, that's exactly what I said about ep 5! Lol

But I think the main difference between the two is episode 6's plot points continually focus on the relationships between the members, while 5 falls a little stagnant.

Some examples:

JM/cat & JK/dog. I'm ALWAYS down for more footage of BTS with pets but this is frankly too much time spent on these scenes. It's honestly footage I would have expected in the bonus content instead of the main product. It's not just an establishing beat or a setup for a callback, this is supposed to be a scene but since it doesn't contribute to the journey of the main character aka the relationships. It could maaaybe work if they'd cut it to highlight the juxtaposition of how JM is calm with the cat vs JKs energy with the dog but that would have shortened the time it occupied and they were clearly trying to keep absolutely everything in that would lengthen the episode.

JKs stew. The ONLY thing that ties this plot point into the narrative of this show (other than it happening while he's in Jeju and Jimin is nearby) is the offhand comment he made that Jimin would like it while he was in NY. I'm going to talk more about this footage below but this was absolutely crucial for this whole beat making it into the episode. This is also why the footage of JM eating it and randomly taking off his shirt was kept in. The cut they chose is actually pretty bad story-wise but they used it anyway. We hear JM saying how much he loves it and how glad he is that JK is a good cook. It ties all of this time we spent watching JK do something alone back into the real main character of the show (the members' relationships between eachother in different circumstances).

Anyway, I won't belabour the point any further. With Tae constantly disappearing from scenes and the slightly diminished lack of focus on the member's relationships, episode 5 left me on an odd note.

A Little Production Note

I was completely thrown by the footage of JK in NY that we got this episode. But not for the reasons you may be thinking. (I do wonder if the anon that was sending in asks about the financing behind the documentaries is still around because we're getting into some of tidbits finally.)

So, all along we've been trying to sus out as much as we can, just a few details about how AYS came to be. We've had some hints but the inclusion of this footage may be another indicator.

The facts as we know them:

AYS is distributed by Disney.

Jungkook's documentary is being distributed by Trafalgar Releasing NOT Disney (at least not now, maybe it'll make it onto streaming after cinematic release but who knows?)

Questions due to the footage of JK in NY:

Was this footage captured as part of JKs documentary?

If so, when was it pulled to be utilized for AYS? Did the editors find it or were the writers involved?

We know that HYBE gathers behind-the-scene content without always having a full plan of how it will be used. But there are times where it did seem intentional for a specific purpose. Where did JKs Golden footage fall in?

Once upon a time, production houses would make deals with distributors about quantities of projects that would be delivered. Was that the case with the Disney deal or has every single project been negotiated separately and we only heard about it once there was a confirmed quantity. Somewhere in the middle perhaps?

And that's all I've got to say for now. I do have some more thoughts about things I've gleaned during these last couple of episodes but it'll likely keep until the end.

Anyway, this footage bumped me because it broke the rules of cross-project production. They got away with it for JKs SEVEN footage in ep 1 because they likely were using the same production crew since it was literally the same day so it doesnt feel like they're'breaking the wall'. But the NY-Jeju crews could have been completely different.

Editing to add further clarification to this point in this ask.

On a sidenote, do y'all remember the last time we got footage of jikook in a hotspring?? I'll jog your memory if not, it was in BV:4 and they 'washed each other's faces'. I can't even imagine what we're about to see in episode 7.

Link to my AYS MasterList

Y'all know how much I love a poll! If any of you happen to have not seen Storm's poll, please vote to get a better sample size.

Hi, I really like your blog and found no better place to rant.

Before I start, I hope to clarify a couple of points to set a clear context:

1. I'm a baby army.

2. I'm an Asian.

3. I am straight. (Don't get me wrong, my personal belief is that love has no gender)

I ran into Taekook videos when I first discovered BTS with zero to no idea about shipping culture. The fact that TKrs claimed their relationship to be real seemed ridiculous to me. I genuinely thought that people were forcing their weird fantasies on two men who have a good friendship. So I moved away from TKr or 'shipper' content and started to watch BTS as a whole with absolutely no idea that parallel ships had a fandom. That's when I came across GCF in Saipan. That freaking video!!!! There was no way I could turn away from looking at JK and JM differently. The song, the editing and just how ethereal JM looked or smiled irrespective of his weird antics and spontaneous shots seemed pure, full of trust and openness. That's how I discovered Jikook and it has been 2 months now.

This also brought me to another discovery, Heterosexism. I work at a corporate company and had a casual discussion with my colleagues regarding an awareness training about eliminating bias and I was surprised at the reaction for a topic surrounding homosexuals. The media here romanticises that homosexuality is accepted, with a few articles on recent homosexual relationships and weddings. But on a deeper scale, the citizens are still homophobic. I was told off for showing support to the pride community, to the extent where I was asked if I was a homosexual.

Finally getting to my question, I have noticed that a lot of jikook supporters are homosexuals. What about people who are not part of the pride community? Is there a good number of people who are straight but not homophobic? Is there a safe space for us to show our support without being judged for it?

True Allyship is appreciated at most pride events and with most queer people. If you are talking about within the Jikook spaces, I do think a large portion of Jikookers are queer is some sense, but a lot of them are straight too. And as long as you aren't talking over queer voices or making a queer safe space no longer safe, I think it's fine for you to be involved.

I'm pretty sure I've got a fairly large following of straight people here anyway too. But let's do another poll and see. These are always lower engagement than the amount of followers I actually have, but it gets a sample size at least. Lol polls are totally anonymous too, in case anyone was worried.

Last time I did this, there was confusion for my aro/ace friends. Y'all are the A in LGBTQIA+. You count as queer, my loves 💜

If you aren't an ally, you don't get an option and you can unfollow 😂

I've got my issues with fake support and Allyship from shippers, but that's a separate discussion and I do think that there are a lot of people who are true and good allies here.

I saw Jungkook's documentary this weekend and have just a few thoughts. If you're avoiding spoilers, don't click the cut!

The Hybe Documentary Format

So...as a reminder to you all, I do not have professional expertise in the film industry. I'm just a very discerning consumer. I also haven't seen Hobi's documentary and I watched Road to D-Day while I was quite ill last year so I only vaguely remember some bits. (I'll definitely be getting back to those sooner rather than later though as research for a series of posts I'm developing.) That being said, I think we have enough data points to state that Hybe has absolutely no interest in filmmaking techniques outside of music videos.

I did mostly enjoy my experience seeing this film yesterday and I'm always grateful for any amount of footage the members are willing to share with us but this 'documentary ' was worse than Jimin's Production Diary. Any of you that managed to make it through my rambling review will know how dissatisfied I was with that.

I Am Still is not a documentary, it's a mixture of showcase footage and behind-the-scenes clips, most of which has already been divulged in the various episodes and shooting sketches on YouTube. Honestly, if you're not able to see the film, just go rewatch all of the bangtantv content for JKs solo period and the showcase and you'll be up to speed with 85% of what was in the documentary.

There are definitely some expansions to the storylines featured in the bangtantv content; mostly being anything that wasn't overtly optimistic. For example, we learn a little bit more about just how sick JK was during the Seven/3D promotions. That content likely was pulled from the bangtantv edit because it would have put a damper on the promotions and given certain 'fans' a focus to fixate their vitriol. But overall, it feels more like an extended version of existing content rather than a new work. At least JPD didn't continually feed us footage we'd seen before.

I'm someone who gets completely bothered by previews spoiling content so I didn't watch any of the promos until after I saw it and I am so glad I skipped them because most of the 'original' scenes of the film were featured in least one of them. Alas, that's a separate issue of which I'm definitely in the minority.

Was There No Structure?

Kinda. Like JPD, there is a semblance of a structure: Attempting to follow the chronology of release activities for JKs GOLDEN album through the lens of JKs staement trying to prove that he is still worthy of everything he was being hailed as during the BTS group activities but I don't feel this was successfully executed. It jumps round enough and isn't very successful in explaining the events if you didn't already know about them. The film starts with the SEVEN performance at GMA and footage that we've already seen of JK recording SEVEN, not mentioning anything about the music video or really how JK got involved with the song in the first place. The rest of the story beats have similar missing points.

They have a vague narrative with the 'I Am Still' points but that's mostly carried by subs and a couple of moments that JK mentions himself. I'm not saying it's not true or wasn't top-of-mind for JK during this process but it's not the main point of many of the moment/messages he shared with us during this time period so it feels a little disingenuous since everything else jn this film really only makes sense if you've already seen quite a lot of behind-the-scenes content.

Honestly, it makes me question the intended audience. Obviously, they know that ARMY will shell out whatever we need to when there's new content from our members but most of us will have already seen all of the bangtantv content so we are already familiar with the most of the footage in this film. I genuinely don't think this was produced in such a way to be palatable for audiences not familiar with BTS so who does that leave? Our friends and family that are peripherally aware of the content but haven't learned the basics of JKs album? ARMY with short term memories only?

But again, it seems this film was compiled by an editing team and not lead by a director with experience in crafting a documentary. The only new footage that Ican guarantee was captured with the express purpose of being included in this film was the few clips of JK talking in the practice room with the albums displayed by him. But we all know that's where all of the promo clips were gathered as well. I have issues with that approach as well but I'll leave this point alone for now unless anyone is interested.

Suffice it to say, all of these suppositions over the past year about how JKs documentary was getting special treatment or even questioning about investment in a project up front are dead. This was a product assembled with bits of what they already had completely in-house which was sold for distribution.

So, Did We Learn NOTHING?

No, there are a few Golden nuggets (see what I did there?). I can't recall everything having only seen it once (and having a rather disruptive audience - I swear there were only dozen or so ppl in my theater but I forget how obnoxious teenagers can be. I'm glad they're enjoying and supporting but we really didn't need light sticks flashing during a film and how many times does one person need to get up to answer their phone during this runtime? Three according to the row in front of mine.)

Anyway, something I thought was interesting to learn was that Standing Next To You was initially recorded the day after JK heard it for the first time. And hearing a little more about how JK yearned to perform that song definitelygot me thinking a little more about it. We can't reach any conclusions just with this little nugget but it does open the door to some theories. Like perhaps they were initially planning to have JK record two separate albums? SEVEN and 3D would be the singles of the first and JK would perform them as we saw but perhaps STNY was originally planned to be the single of the 2nd album that would release while he was in the military and thus be unable to perform it? Maybe JK loved STNY so much that everything was grouped into one album and Never Let Go was the only track held back for ms? Definitely some theorizing space to be had now.

Final thoughts?

Similar to my thoughts on the GCF: Budapest (which I feel would have had a much better reception if it had been labeled as a bangtan episode rather than a GCF), I AM Still should not have purported to be a documentary. It was much more similar to the annual Memories compilations. But the general public would not have shelled out the $25 to go to a theater to watch a Memories DVD so alas, we have our content packaged as a ~documentary~...

Did my view on the music change at all? Not because of the documentary. We're coming up on the year anniversary of GOLDEN and it's still definitely not my favorite. I completely understand why some people like it but it's just not to my taste. The overall impact falls a little flat for me. Too much breadth and not enough depth. I came into my musical soul during the 00s emo phase and will always be a sucker for music that absolutely drips in an emotional way rather than catchy songs vaguely referencing heartache and love. Again, just a matter of viewpoint.

I do think most of these songs stand much better being shuffled amongst other artists in a Playlist and several of them are significantly better when JK sang them live but I still won't be listening to them regularly. I wholeheartedly believe JK completed his task of proving himself as an extremely dedicated and versatile singer and performer. He's definitely got some solid points added to his resume after this project.

So this anon is really troubling me but not for the regular jikook-shipper reasons. If you're up for a nuanced discussion, continue through the cut. If you're looking for a stage to battle, I'd recommend passing on by. I'll only engage with good-faith responses.

I want to make something very clear in my teeny little corner of our fandom. We can debate whichever ship is real and which member's are closer to eachother forever. These arguments can get into fairly childish statements of stacking human relationships into a competition but if that's how you want your fandom experience to be, you do you, I guess.

The point I would invite y'all to consider when taking an approach like the above anon is to remember that action does not equal attraction. In other words, just because a person does something, does NOT automatically mean they feel a certain way about it. It could, it very well could. But it's not a given.

I'm particularly sensitive to the viewpoint of people trying to call others homophobic for not seeing an action a certain way. Yes, that is definitely a huge part of society's issues currently but not every misalignment of interpretation equates to homophobia.

Specifically I'd like to talk but ace-aro erasure. Now, before any of you jump on me, I AM NOT SAYING THAT I THINK ANY OF THE MEMBERS ARE ASPEC. I just want to remind you that when you make sweeping statements like 'you only have to look at them to know', you are implicitly stating that anyone who chooses to partake in similar actions could ONLY be doin so because of an attraction.

Never in any of my fandoms before have I struggled so much with feeling pushed out as an aspec than i have once I found kpop. I believe it's largely due to the focus of shipping spaces having this weird honor system of needing to gather evidence and prove that yours is 'the one true ship'. It's putting people in this space where they are treating every piece of content like the old land rushes of early colonization. Instead of settlers racing to establish homesteads, it's shippers racing to build narratives.

And thus lies the erasure of all aspecs. Statements like these prescribe what actions we are allowed to take or not take. I realize all identities exist on a spectrum but the ace-aro spectrums are so vast, there can be very little in common between two individuals that utilize these labels. I know I personally will affinities for differing sub-lables nearly day-to-day. So umbrella statements in general set me on edge but any that draw conclusions about someone's sexuality based solely on an outside perspective of their actions? Nope, I can't vibe with that.

I don't have a conclusion to this post other than to invite y'all to remember that even here on tumblr, in our relatively open corner of the internet, there is some work to be done to be inclusive.

For any of you that are interested in discussing more about the viewpoints of aspecs in kpop spaces, I invite you to check out @aspec-kpop .

You casting doubt or saying they could have had other relationships is not the flex you think it is. In all seriousness that is highly unlikely given their consistent behaviour around each other for years now, at least since 2017, ain’t no way they were dating others. It’s actually quite homophobic what you are insinuating again with the video of Jk, there is not a straight bone most likely in that man’s body. He is all about Jimin, all the time, you only have to watch his habits and lives to see that. There is no room for anyone else. If you can’t see that fine but stop clogging the tag with your homophobic opinions. They also were not on a break, their relationship is private and not for us, or the public. We don’t live under their bed for sure, but you only have to look at them, how they act, how they were, how they spoke about each other, the shared concepts, the travel show, the enlistment. Just know you’re wrong to cast doubt and it’s erasing them and what they are showing is by doing so. It’s not about being rational, it’s literally erasure.

Block me then.

I can’t with these fucking anons picking and choosing when it comes to what I write about.

Me casting doubt is wrong? If my opinion is casting doubt on you, then I would question how easily influenced you are.

You say that we don’t know about their private lives and yet, are 100% convinced he’s been in a long-term romantic relationship with jm.

‘There is no room for anyone else’, ‘ain’t no way they were dating others’. Sure, and you know this cause you’re such a bystander who isn’t privy to their private lives?

I was there in 2017. I was there when gcf dropped. I love them beyond anything so to insinuate that I’m being homophobic towards them is so fucking disrespectful. All because I said that they might not be dating. Get a grip.

I know we're all excited for the next episode of AYS but I'd just like to remind y'all of what happened the last time we had footage of our members at a hot spring.

Reminded? Okay, be prepared!

😏🤭