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me: carver hawke's decision to join the templars was not some huge moral failing as a lot of people mistakenly assume, but based on the choices available at the time to a poor refugee who wanted to support his family when there was absolutely no way of knowing that hawke was actually alive. bartrand TOLD him that hawke and varric and the other companion were dead, what was he supposed to do? especially when aveline deliberately burned any opportunity he may have had to join the guard by telling him to his face that she wouldn't hire him. his choice was never about revenge on hawke or hating mages as i've seen said again and again, it was about desperation and being backed into a corner, and his being judged for that is just so heart wrenching,

my friends and mutuals: we literally just asked how you're doing

the ladies of the like you'll never die verse

in order from right to left:

warden asherah lindner; warden keres surana; champion ella hawke; champion kore hawke; lady ishta; inquisitor roz hale

p: (x)

I guess my warden went to par vollen with sten lol

Okay, seriously though. Why do some people hate Carver so much? Is it just because he joins the Templars if you don't bring him on the expedition? I... always bring him with me on the expedition (Grey Warden, hell yeah! And the shortened life expectancy is fine, the Warden's taking care of it) so I've never seen what he says about it, but I've always assumed it's because he's a Ferelden refugee whose main skill is fighting and who used to be a soldier. It seems like the only real jobs on offer for someone like that are 1. criminal work, 2. joining the guard (if you can get around the prejudice against outsiders which we know exists) and 3. joining the Templars. Criminal stuff is normally a bad idea to get into, especially on your own, and we know he can't join the guard because Act 1 banter between him and Aveline tells us in no uncertain terms that she is actively blocking him from taking that path. Taken from the wiki, just because I still can't believe this is a thing that Aveline actually does, especially when two of her other banters with Carver involve her complaining about his lack of job and his associates:

Carver: Did you approve my application?

Aveline: I can't make you a guard, Carver.

Carver: We were both soldiers. Why won't they take me?

Aveline: I was an officer. And I follow orders.

Carver: (Laughs) No you don't.

Aveline: I also think of others before myself. You seem tired of that, and that's dangerous.

Carver: Just when it's not my choice. You told them not to take me, didn't you?

Aveline: Yes.

(Also: fuck Aveline for saying Carver doesn't think of others before himself. If he didn't think of others before himself he wouldn't be putting himself in danger by helping his apostate sibling and all their companions without any real desire to leave.) He doesn't have any other real options, as far as we know, and while you're out in the Deep Roads keeping Leandra (and probably Gamlen, although I don't think we know how Gamlen kept a roof over his head before Leandra and her children descended upon him so he might have sorted it out for himself) clothed, housed and fed is falling pretty much solely on his shoulders. So he joins the Templars, because what the hell else can he do? He's what, twenty-odd years old, and until Hawke gets back is essentially the sole provider for his family. He needed a job that paid reasonably well and had a decent amount of job security, and he took what he could get, and a lot of people seem to pretty much blindly hate him for that. I don't like that he joins the Templars, but I'm genuinely wondering what people think he should've done instead.

You know what I love about Carver? He's doing it because he loves you. He's a bitch yeah, and he complains constantly, and getting approval with him is like pulling teeth but you know the reason he gives you rivalry? It's when you put yourself in danger. I mean, come on, Carver Hawke is hardly pro-Circle, he literally grew up in a family full to the brim with apostates and he watched them control themselves just fine without it. But that boy is terrified, literally terrified that you will end end being taken by the templars. He's terrified that you are being too blatant, that by helping mages and shouting at templars you are going to end up in the Gallows. And of course he is. Carver lost his twin. Carver lost Bethany. Carver watched her die. He talks big game about being in Hawkes shadow, but he doesn't want to loose them. He doesn't want to watch his mother go through losing Hawke. He fucking gives you rivalry because he cares. When you meet Fenris he immediately is like 'you got a problem with my sibling take it up with me'. He's never like 'ugh just let the templars take you Hawke the circle is fine'. He's just. He's traumatised. He wants to protect his sibling. And that sentiment is coming out wrong, but that doesn't mean its not coming from a place of love.