Anyone Else Up Thinking About How Macaque Was Soso Wrong Abt Who Mk Is As A Person In Shadow Play And

anyone else up thinking about how macaque was soso wrong abt who mk is as a person in shadow play and went through all of s3 assuming mk was just Wukong Part 2 RIGHT UP UNTIL he refuses to abandon mei in 3x10. and then he just looks at mk like

^ this is the face of someone who just had his whole worldview rearranged in the time it took mk to say “i’d never abandon her when she needs me!” suddenly, mk isn’t just wukong 2: electric boogaloo anymore, he’s something Else to macaque. the Hero… isn’t abandoning his friend when it benefits him? even with all this power, even when no one could blame him, he still turns around and fights for his friend? who is this guy?

macaque’s spent this whole season wanting to get the hell out of dodge without getting LBD mad at him. he wants to free himself and then he wants to fuck off until this mess blows itself over. that was his plan, and he’s free now. he finally has the chance to do that, to make a clean getaway- but for the first time, he sticks around. he’s curious. who is this kid? and that’s why he goes Back towards the lady bone demon, and why he’s there to bail mk out when wukong gets possessed.

like, mac only starts being helpful After the samadhi fire. he saves mk, delivers the mayor to the gang, lets himself get tied up, and gives the gang valuable intel on LBD. he easily could’ve freed himself at any point, gotten the drop on them, and gotten away again. but that’s not what he wants anymore. why does he stick around to let mk convince him to fight? because he’s curious. he wants to see where this is going.

and then macaque, the guy who has never entered a fight that he can’t win (or at least escape from easily, which is still a win in his book since he survives the fight), the guy who fights dirty and stacks the deck in his favor, agrees to a completely unwinnable fight. there was no world where macaque beat wukong on top of that mech. mac knew this, and agreed to do it anyways, because mk asked him to. because mk’s smth macaque hasn’t seen before, and he wants to see where this goes. and i’m really really normal about it

A Few Character Creation Tips

Here are some ideas for getting to know your original characters. These have proved to be very helpful techniques for me.

Take personality tests from the perspective of the character (finding out their MBTI type is pretty useful).

Set up a private Tumblr blog, and reblog posts there that remind you of certain characters (then, later, you can go through the tag you made for them, for reference).

On the private blog, use one of those character pages, and fill it out with mini bios for each character (you can even use photos of people who remind you of the characters if the page allows for icons).

Create a spreadsheet that lists the characters on one side, put generic profile questions on the other side, and fill it out for each character. I got most of my questions from OkCupid.

Make playlists for each of the characters, and fill them with songs that remind you of them, or that you think they’d like.

Try to consciously think about how certain characters would respond to situations you come across in your day-to-day life. Or, how they’d act if they were part of the movie/show/book you’re currently into.

If you know other writers, ask if you can RP as your own characters with them. It doesn’t even have to be relevant to the plot of your own story. Just RP back and forth with other people, in character, to get a better understanding of how they’d interact with others.

If anyone has any other techniques, feel free to add them!

So I've been thinking about the "monkey-mind horse-will" philosophy and the way it perfectly applies to MK and Mei all day today SO I NEED TO GET IT OUT OF MY SYSTEM.

So I feel like it's extremely common knowledge that Wukong is an allegory for the mind in jttw and this allegory is still somewhat present in lmk, especially in aspects of MK's character. The whole concept of the fluid, ever changing thoughts in his mind. The whole "I try not to think about it", "I play dumb to lighten the mood". Him saying "There's nothing MINDless about me" in the season 4 finale. THE WHOLE THING WITH SMARTIE KID/BIG BRAIN BOY? These are just some examples off the top of my head there's definitely so much I've missed. But yes, MK has this as a very noticible motif of thoughts and mind rooted in his character.

Mei representing the will- or as I like to put it - the heart is less apparent, but hear me out. The whole "she acts before she thinks". The whole "she puts her family and friends first", and the "she's a protector" vibe of her character. She puts her HEART first. The contrast between this and MK is admittedly slight but still visible.

Monkies and horses have had other connections in eastern history too, I'm sure most jttw fans are familiar with keeping monkies in horse stables to wear off illnesses (Wukong's role as Bimawen is a reference to that :D), but besides the duo can also represent great success and fortune and have ties in the Chinese zodiac. So I feel chosing Mei specifically to be MK's bestie was done on purpose.

ARGH I don't know just the concept of MK and Mei being the "Brain and Heart" IS JUST TOO GOOD. The fact it isn't the regular route of "he's smart, she's sensitive" but a lot more subtle and nuanced is just taking over my brain. I love the whole "MK and Mei will become the Hero and the Warrior" theory but imagine that the finale message is that they are equal and there is no point in overshadowing one another (I like both versions of the theory, I'm fine with both Hero MK-Warrior Mei and Hero Mei-Warrior MK) because "mind and will" are both equally important. Like? How they're both capable of greatness and need each other's support. LIKE??

AAAA I HOPE YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT I'M GOING FOR

To destiny...

Nah, because why is this version of shadowpeach more interesting than the usual fanon version???

What are your thoughts on shadowpeach?

Fandom wise? I do not care for it.

Canon wise? I believe in men committing crimes while forming the most toxic, unhealthy attachments to one person could lead to such a dysfunctional relationship that it, eventually, turns into a functional one. And also they’re trans and aspec.

Disclaimer: this is all my opinion and people can do whatever they want, i simply have my gripes with some of the fandom stuff. this is just me explaining what i like and dislike about shadowpeach.

I think the most common thing people fall into when it comes to ships—or shipping in general—is how to domesticate these two characters without fully addressing their flaws, personalities, behavior, and their overall choices throughout the original media/show they come from. 

Macaque and SWK both suffer equally through this mischaracterization: Macaque is often painted as this shy or “edgy” character with little to no ties to his actual character in canon and, more often than not, he is perceived as this “dad” type of character when, in fact, he should not be allowed near children for I fear he will bully them nonstop until they sit there in the corner feeling disheartened and miserable about themselves; Sun Wukong is often portrayed as this dumb himbo with little-to-no means of understanding social cues, not understanding emotions in a way that’s very frustrating, and be this yearning, pining idiot who’s still longing for his childhood crush when he did not hesitate to punch this guy in the face multiple times throughout the show. So when they are paired up together it’s this weird mash of people believing Macaque is the better dad with more understanding of human behavior and Wukong is his dumb, doting husband who’s doing his best and cannot stand up for himself when confronted about things.

The amount of times people choose to make Macaque sympathetic by having Sun Wukong’s family side with Macaque when it comes to Wukong’s actions/choices is so vast I could not count them all on one hand. The common trope of having Princess Iron Fan (Sun Wukong’s sister-in-law) become Macaque’s sworn sister is so disheartening to see for someone who read through Journey To The West and thought of how silly the overall family dynamic of the Demon Bull Family and Sun Wukong’s troops was. Removing Iron Fan as Sun Wukong’s literal sister just to have someone backup Macaque and sympathize with him is funny and a bit silly. 

That being said… the canon version of Shadowpeach and its possibilities are, in fact, very delicious.

Canon wise this is what we know about Sun Wukong and Macaque’s history together: 

Sun Wukong and Macaque meet

The brotherhood is formed after Azure meets Sun Wukong, Macaque tags along with Wukong (note: Macaque is not addressed as “brother” by the characters, only Wukong is)

Macaque tries to warn Wukong about how dealing with Heaven might be a bad idea

They share a peach under a tree; Wukong reassures Macaque this plan will work

Wukong carries on with Azure’s plan anyway (yes, azure lion’s plan, not wukong’s)

The brotherhood is defeated and Wukong gets trapped under a mountain

Presumably no one comes to visit Wukong, only Macaque

During his final visit, Wukong is angry that Macaque is free and can’t see the fact that Wukong was trying to do everything for them and his kingdom

Macaque snaps back at Wukong and calls him an obsessive demon before leaving

They have another fallout and fight

Wukong ends up killing Macaque in the aftermath

500~ years later, Macaque and Wukong fight again with Wukong being more apathetic towards their reunion than Macaque is

Macaque obsesses over Wukong continuously (coughs)

Macaque is biased in his retellings of his and Wukong’s relationship (see: all of shadowplay and the scrolls memories)

They fight (again) throughout S3

They somewhat reconcile by the end of S4

We will address the fact Sun Wukong was groomed into going to war by this former celestial warrior instead of having it be because of his own want to protect his family and friends after Heaven refused to pay him the respect he wanted when he first joined their ranks later. Right now we focus on the fact that Sun Wukong is canonically a person people easily fall in love with (platonically) and have a tendency to want to stay close to regardless of what his future actions will be like and Macaque is sequentially obsessed with him throughout the show.

“The hero and the warrior were like the Sun and the Moon. Their light, a protective glow, shining upon the world. Together, there was nothing that could stop the two of them. Either in the Celestial Realms or on Earth. As time went on, the hero attained power beyond comprehension. As the hero's light grew, so too did his shadow. And soon, the warrior was cast in that shadow. In the darkness, the warrior was forgotten by the hero.”

Fun fact: Macaque is never going to be on par with Sun Wukong’s power and he works best as support than he does a duo-attacker along side Wukong. Wukong is on his own power level and Macaque, while being able of holding his own against enemies, could be stomped to death by Xiaoijiao is he crossed the line.

Macaque’s obsession with Sun Wukong comes from the inability to move on from the past; Macaque wanting things to go back as they were is a subtle theme going through the show — he keeps latching on to biased memories and avoiding the actual problems that caused their relationship to fall apart and it isn’t until Season 3’s big confrontation with Long Xiaojiao’s Samadhi Fire ritual. He realizes he abandoned Wukong during a time of need and proceeds to flee, abandoning him again. 

Macaque has issues. More often than not people call out on Sun Wukong for abandoning Xiaotian or the Monkie Kid Crew all while ignoring the fact Sun Wukong does not purposefully leave Qi Xiaotian, he tries his hardest to make it back in time and is visibly scared/horrified when LBD attacks in his absence. Sun Wukong tries his hardest to comfort Xiaotian while Macaque tries to torment him. 

Regardless, Sun Wukong and Macaque’s relationship is unique to most media’s portrayal of friends turned enemies. Because Wukong does not see Macaque as a threat up until he teams up with Lady Bone Demon — he is only scary by association, not by anything he has done up until that point. You can tell with the way Wukong mocks him and calls him something akin to a puppet during their interaction in Season 3 when Macaque trapped him and Nezha in the ice. 

And even then Macaque doesn’t even bother trying to engage with Wukong in a friendly manner because kindness is for losers HA i’m not apologizing for anything, bye Sun Wukong, you big old LOSER [proceeds to possibly live on the streets and stay homeless until wukong allows him to return to ffm under certain house rules]

You’ll notice that Sun Wukong barely has any opinions on Macaque.

This is because Macaque is favored by the narrative more than Sun Wukong is so we have very little context as to how Sun Wukong genuinely feels towards Macaque. 

Sun Wukong sees Macaque as an annoyance, a bother, a threat, a coward, an imposter and then, finally, an ally. 

But all we get from that is Wukong handing Macaque a peach-flavored ice cream pop as a parallel to him sharing a peach with his old friend back when they were young monkeys before he was trapped under a mountain for 500 years as a result of his abuser’s power hold on him that forced him to fight heaven as a way to “make the world a better place”. 

We love to see it.

Macaque and Wukong’s relationship goes from mutual interest and a supportive friendship established years prior to the original building of the brotherhood to a very weird, uncategorized type of dynamic. The only way to characterize Sun Wukong’s “affection” towards Macaque is, possibly, the same way most people would characterize Macaque to be towards Wukong. Y’know the slightly judgmental actions and eye rolls and scoffs of affection most people write about Macaque when Wukong does something stupid? Yeah.

“But Macaque said “this guy” when Wukong was presenting his plan to defeat Azure—“ yeah have you considered Wukong does a lot of masking in the presence of the entire Monkie Kid Crew and Macaque has a tendency to present himself as this cool persona when in fact he’s just a homeless monkey who’s been crashing on his ex’s couch for the past weeks since the ending of Season 3? 

“OK…. but why QPR Shadowpeach?”

Sun Wukong throughout the course of Journey to the West and all its past and future iterations have always had him be uninterested in both men and women. There are multiple instances where he’s capable of courting women and he instead backs away or does not pay it any mind; aside from this he’s heavily implied to only care about familial love and friendships. He does not see his pilgrim brothers as anything more than family and he views Tripitaka as a mentor rather than someone whom he was chained to. And Azure was his idol and he was groomed by him, and everyone else was viewed to him as a troop — or, y’know, a family.

This and the fact that— both Sun Wukong and Macaque are over a thousand years old. Why on earth would they have a normal type of relationship? Giving them a checklist of what passes on as romantic and platonic when to them the line is so blurred it’s barely existent to them is amusing. 

Sun Wukong and Macaque having their own weird relationship where it changes from frustrated best friends to partners to angry middle aged demons to the tired traumatized immortals who sometimes cuddle while still beating each other up is so deliciously interesting and unhealthy to the point where it is healthy. 

Also Celestial bodies are not the same as mortal bodies; canonically Sun Wukong has transformed into women before and people have addressed him with female-leaning pronouns before. my personal headcanon of sun wukong being genderfluid lves on and now we can have sapphic shadowpeach with transfem macaque.

also im still feverish so if this doesnt make sense then too bad damn im sorry

(This is a bit of an improv theory, but here goes-)

I feel like the very first episode of the season is going to focus more on MK's childhood, or lack thereof. We've already gotten glimpses with Master Subohdi (is that how you spell it??) talking to MK by the stone, and with the emphasis on the past and fixing past mistakes.. I think that's the most logical place to go.

Maybe we can get a moment where MK is going through it and asking all these questions about his origins and, to cheer him up or comfort him, Pigsy tells him a bit more about what he was like as a little kid. It seems (to me, at least) that, for some reason, MK blocked that moment where Pigsy met him out of his mind. He only remembers when he's pushed to by Subohdi.

So, maybe if we get that, we could also get more glimpses of MK's creator/Nüwa?? Maybe, throughout the episode he has moments where things start to remind him of something so familiar, but so distant in his memories. (I can see him saving a family and seeing them hug and stuff, and feeling kind of depressed about it, or even a bit jealous/envious. But then, he'd probably brush it off until it became too much and towards the very end of the episode, he meets whoever he's looking for.)

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