Your Points Are Fair. However, In This Instance At Least, I Am Experimenting With A Different Definition

Your points are fair. However, in this instance at least, I am experimenting with a different definition of Mary Sue. So I will respectfully agree with your interpretation of your very valid points to a certain extent only. I hope that you won't take offense for I mean none.

I believe that the ultimate nature of stories and narratives would inevitably favor the Main Characters, or the Protagonists. The classic mythologies are a good example of this, where the gods would intervene to assist the Hero in their quest.

An example of this would be Achilles. By the common definition of Mary Sue, Achilles would be a Mary Sue. Invincible, gets help from the gods through the story, and he is ultimately proven right over his rival, Agamemnon through the plot working in Achilles's favor.

There is an overlap between a naturally developing Main Character and Mary Sue which is better differentiated when one looks at the issue of Mary Sue as a narrative trope rather than a character trope.

Going back to the Achilles example. Achilles does not come across as a Mary Sue because Achilles is a part of a larger world that the Illiad builds throughout the narrative. Achilles does not overshadow the stories of the other characters through the Illiad's narrative, which allows the audience to understand Achilles not just as a part of the world, but also as APART from the world. Since he is partly divine due to his birth.

Looking at RWBY, I believe that Ruby Rose is a victim of Ozpin's issues that extends centuries before the start of RWBY proper. Ruby is not allowed to have her own story because she has to solve Ozpin's problems. Which is why Ruby's story gets twisted up not to make her 'always right', but to carry Ozpin's poorly written story onward.

Ruby is the main character, but this is not her story. Which I believe is the fundamental issue of RWBY and can only be addressed when a different definition of 'Mary Sue' is used to identify the true culprit of the poor writing. So to speak.

Is Ruby Rose (RWBY) a Mary Sue?

Definition of Mary Sue;

In an earlier post, I described the 'Mary Sue' as a narrative trope instead of a character archetype. A 'Mary Sue' occurs when a character's story overshadows the stories of the other characters.

Example;

Harry Potter in the last four books is a Mary Sue mostly because everything after book four is somehow tied to Harry, no matter how obscure or far removed. As a result, the story shrinks around Harry and the world of Magic becomes less interesting the more it focuses on Harry and his conflict with Voldemort.

Is Ruby is Mary Sue?

Based on my definition, no. She is just a badly written character. While all Mary Sues are badly written, not all badly written characters are Mary Sues.

Ozpin is more of the Mary Sue in RWBY. This is because most of RWBY's plot centers around Ozpin's mistakes and his relationships. Especially with Salem.

Therefore, Ruby Rose is not a Mary Sue.

Penny is one of the best things about RWBY.

An Analysis of Penny Polendina, and Asperger's

“Okay, here goes tumblr again on getting people to diagnose fictional characters with mental health issues, woohoo”

Okay, to start, I wanna preface this completely with the disclaimer that I am aware of the nature of analysis essays like this on this site, but to start, I want to be clear that this is completely my experience with RWBY as a show, as well as my experience in life with what I personally believe to be a condition that makes me relate in-depth with a fictional character, that is all. If you do not approve of it, you are in no obligation to agree with me.

With that being said, this is by no means going to be some analysis that’s like “ALL THE OTHER VIEWS ARE WRONG.” This is simply my interpretation, and I am absolutely open to receiving replies pointing to the contrary of what I am about to go over. In fact, I encourage it. Y’all need to be MEAN AS FUCK to me. I haven’t had enough of that sweet sweet concetrated internet venom in my online experience, lol.

With that said, the subject today isn’t some kind of diagnosis or gatekeeping of a character I am well aware people cherish, as well as a character that may be very divisive in the matter as to the weight of their importance in the series overall. This essay is completely sentimental, but I have also done my research, as well as cross-referenced the facts of the character and the show with what little we know about the diagnosis now.

That being said, I’m sure everyone’s already made the connection by now that Penny Polendina is somewhere on the spectrum. When I say the spectrum, I use it EXTREMELY LIGHTLY, as in I in no way mean to make Penny look like a stereotype, which many might think of her at first glance - But I assure, there is SO much I want to talk about. I am also not going based on any sources involving Autism Speaks, or any other harmful organizations that associate with the study and research of Autism that in any ways has harmful practices or mindsets towards the understanding of Autism. In fact, I am basing most of this off of my own experiences and daily issues, as well as some misconceptions I believe many have about Autism, as well as the ability to be high-functioning, since this analysis dabbled in only the first territory of the three levels of Autism.

SPECIFICALLY, I would like to talk about Asperger’s, or Asperger’s Syndrome. For context, I was diagnosed with Asperger’s at a young age, and I would also like to preface the fact that Asperger’s is, fortunately, a condition that allows for high-functioning development, and is only on the first of three tiers. I am going to be going over the major signs, behaviors, and examples in-character I see of these traits, and try to give you a better idea of why the character you like acts the way that they do. As much as I like Penny, too, I am NOT woobifying her, and I think woobifying those on the Autism spectrum is one of the worst things you can do, since most of the issues I’ve had trying to adapt have involved others not taking me seriously, and approach this with the deepest empathy and hope for understanding towards those neurodivergent who are reading this.

Now that I’ve gotten all the introductions and formalities out of the way, I will begin to go over observed behaviors that are the underlying differences between “normal” people and those with Asperger’s. As I go, I will be providing examples of these traits seen in-character, as well as to the reasoning put in place for why these are examples of these behaviors. Specifically, I will go over symptoms I am POSTIVE people with Asperger’s experience, simply because the ones I choose will also be ones I know I’ve experienced. (I am extremely open to counterarguements, as well as external sourcing and re-examination of specific traits at request - Again, it might be a bit of an echo-chamber, but it’s better than citing behaviors I have NOT seen or experienced that might be at fault. Sorry for the sudden disclaimer, just covering my bases, lol.)

Difficulty in picking up social cues, and conditional-awareness empathy.

To make my thesis clear in this first point, let my begin by saying that those with Asperger’s, like me, are NOT incapable of empathy - In fact, we have times like everyone where we clearly can reciprocate emotions - Emotions we are aware of. This is important.

Now what does this implicate? What do I mean? Well, a good example of behavior like this is seen when Penny is extremely clearly doing something or saying something that makes someone uncomfortable - In my experience with Asperger’s, I often might be interacting or doing things like I’m welcome, or right at home, but I might be using something of someone else’s, and they might be giving me subtle social cues that may implicate that they don’t want me to do it, but because my condition inhibits my ability to sense subtle social cues - unless I’m told right to my face that what I’m doing is making them uncomfortable, or I’m doing something I’m not supposed to do - That’s what I mean.

Now, clearly, in the show, this is obviously played-up for humor. She might bear-hug someone she hardly knows, or longingly stare with a look on her face, not knowing that she simply isn’t just an invisible spectator - You know which scene I’m talking about.

But she’s not invisible - She’s a person who’s there in the moment that people put their attention on, because she’s unpredictable, per se, just working about life in a way that makes sense to her, because she’s probably never had to worry about social interaction - Which I believe is a serious contributor.

If you don’t have someone who tells you what your doing is right or wrong, or you don’t have friends at all, you won’t know how to act when someone does interact with you. Her pushy nature at first makes her awkward, and maybe even unlikable, but it’s when Ruby speaks up for herself, and they get a chance to talk to each other about who they actually are, and to get in each others’ heads that they begin to realize there might be some... external factors...

Now clearly, over time, Penny begins to learn that, with responsibility, she needs to understand that she has importance, and once she realizes that her actions matter, and that she has consequences for when she does things that can mortally affect her (depending on who she’s interacting with) she start to show restraint, and when her friends reward her for that, it’s theraputic - For her and the audience. It’s just satisfyingly wholesome.

Now obviously, a huge part of this is also emotions. Clearly this can help someone who might be comfortable around something be even more comfortable, albeit involuntarily, but in my experience with people I’ve come to love, including my partner and their family, several boundaries had to be set within reason. This can lead to issues that likely aren’t seen with Penny, since her friends all need hugs too because the world is cold and dark while Penny’s the only soft and warm thing within a 300-mile radius, but it’s just not realistic. Her friends and bystanders need to help her be held accountable, otherwise she might, for example, say something to someone like Ironwood, Winter, or the Ace Ops that might make them uncomfortable, since their relationship is clearly professional. Fortunately, she already seemed to have it down, and she learned to say things when her input is needed, though, which is a sign of growth, and an extremely good indicator that she’s learned to express herself while also holding restrain, learning to be an individual, the only reason I mention it is that sometimes these symptoms are persistent throughout all stages of life - She is very fortunate that she seemed to overcome them in the way she did.

Also, her head was a dodgeball that one time. So that happened.

Difficulty in picking up social cues, and conditional-awareness empathy.

Hyperfixation & restricting of interests or specialization in hobbies or behaviors.

When I mention hyperfixation, I want it to be extremely clear that I understand everyone can have specific interests and passions, but in the context of Asperger’s, whether simple and managed or unmanaged and natural, what I mean by hyperfixation is NOT passing interests - At least, not always. Their interests happen to extremely fixed, as well - Just let me explain.

Hyperfixation in context to those with Asperger’s is that, in early development of the brain, a symptom that involves extreme and occasionally socially debilitating unmoving, restricted, and repetitive interests. So how does this differ from usual hyperfixation? Hyperfixation in a usual context implicates a passing interest or phase - Hyperfixation in context of Asperger’s involves meticulous and seemingly pointless breaking-down of random facts, interests, or passions.

An example of this would be someone who, for most of their life, has had an extreme interest in building model trains or towns in their basement, and they absolutely refuse the notion of anything happening to them - Or someone who’s researched in-depth into the weather or stars patterns between the years 2001-2021, simply just because they want to? THAT kind of hyperfixation, a seemingly socially taboo freakish obsession, or perhaps a burning passion caused simply from cognitive dissonance being the one thing that keeps you doing it? Yep.

Now, perhaps that’s a hard way of putting it? But sometimes that’s because that’s what it's seen as in the eyes of the world - But as a kid, someone might be extremely interested in disassembling and reassembling giant Lego models, and because it seems like such an interesting thing, not many have actually considered it as a sign of neurodivergency - Simply social obsession.

Okay, now how does Penny display these features?

Okay, we have the obvious answer - Penny is extremely obsessed with the idea of “Painting nails, trying on clothes, and talking about cute boys.” This is a recurring idea between her ideal friendship, not just in the first volume, but also in her song after her final moments, and even in the manga iteration of the scene of her and Ruby’s encounter.

But what if I told you it goes deeper? There happen to be a few more indicators of what exactly Penny may have an interest in - And some may be more obvious than others.

Penny seems to understand lots more than we realize - And clearly her heart and passion as well as robot-capabilities (before her transformation) allowed her to do all the realizing she wanted, like analyzing semblances.

In addition to the ideal friendship, Penny seems to have an incredible interest in relationships in general - She might not know how they all work, but she’s interested in learning about everything she wants to know on her free-time she has so little of above all. With the time she was given, being under Ironwood and all, she did what she could, and took it upon herself to memorize exact pathfinding, as well as architectural layout, as displayed when giving Teams RWBY and JNR as well as Oscar a tour of the whole place.

What this tells me is that, if Penny could, she would use her free time to do so much more. Now what would that be?

Ladies, Nonbinies, and gentlemen...

THATS RIGHT.

PENNY’S TRUE CALLING IS AS A.... DJ???

okay i don’t know

j

just go to the next category

Difficulty in picking up social cues, and conditional-awareness empathy.

Hyperfixation & restricting of interests or specialization in hobbies or behaviors.

Unique linguistics, thought processing, emotional application and physical quirks.

Probably my most highly anticipated category above as well, but this is going to be covering a wide variety of internal differences between those with Asperger’s as well as those without it, both internally and external.

To start, those with Asperger’s, including myself, tend to have a very “interesting” sense of word formulation. We are often verbose, and explain things in way deeper depth than needed. When delivering speeches, our thought process tends to need to explain every little detail so it makes sense, even though we might not have the time to explain everything - The true definition of verbosity, using more words than necessary to describe an idea.

Remind you of something?

Like something you’re reading? Right now?

That’s what I thought.

Bitch.

Aside from that, we also tend to have an odd sense of “prosody,” or expressive auditory variables. These include, but are not, limited to;

Pitch. (Oddly annunciated/placed expression on words)

Length of sounds. (Over/under exaggerated or shortened syllables)

Loudness. (Overly loud or quiet expression)

and Timbre (Voice quality, quality of sound to the ear)

This is something we see extremely often with Penny - Her expression is often extremely associated with her current emotion. This would make sense with anyone, but sometimes it’s something unconscious, something just can’t control.

Naturally it doesn’t mean it’s something causing us to constantly scream at the top of our lungs all the time. That’s just silly! It’s more like... we need to better control our thoughts and intents in a conversation, and express ourselves accordingly. Sometimes, if you’re in a bad mood, and you try to act positive to someone, it’s sometimes more obvious that we’re in a bad mood. For Penny, it’s the opposite. She is literally to the brink with positivity. I don’t know how she does it??? Top 10 questions science still can’t answer.

Another aspect that’s more obviously seen is her odd word choice. To me, everything I say might make sense to me, but because a) it’s hard to gauge how others feel (ESPECIALLY SINCE IM WRITING IT AS WE SPEAK AND PEER REVIEW IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR ME) and b) we have our rose-tinted glasses on for what we do all the time, sometimes to us, what we say might make sense, but in the end, it might sound like english is our second language, even though it isn’t. The way we formulate sentences in our head is different than when it comes out of our mouth, and we also have a tendency to make sense out of comparisons in our head that don’t make sense to others.

OKAY YOU KNOW I HAD TO SHOW THIS SOME TIME OR ANOTHER.

IT’S TOO GOOD NOT TO SHOW YOU.

But it’s actually an example of what I’m actually trying to show you - Penny in this scene clearly is experiencing everything differently than Ruby, but Penny takes the metaphor of being a firefly differently, and the scene is tied together beautifully by showing that, even though they don’t enjoy things the same way, they can open each others’ eyes into seeing the world a different way from one another, and that’s what matters to them.

Aside from that, there’s also the aspect of physical quirks or tics, which seem to be common between all types of ASD, as well as in other types of neurodivergency, and...

Okay I think you get the point.

Point is I had this idea for a post a while ago, and I finally got the motivation to make a recently, and I’m super happy I did. I hope this post is educational, and I hope you appreciate Penny’s writing a little more after this.

That is all.

Reblog for a free hug.

THESE guys are nomads:

Harmless, defenseless, and the only threat they faced were Badger Moles, not Fire Nation Soldiers:

The 'Air Nomads' are Airbending Monks who live in monasteries:

Whose abilities include this:

Also, this was what an Airbender Monk in Aang's time were capable of:

What happened to them? They died fighting like Soldiers, instead of being rounded up and executed in a genocide.

The Last Airbender is Anti-Fire Nation Propaganda

The Fire Lord, Ozai, is dehumanized due to his portrayal as a one-dimensional, evil Overlord.

The Fire Nation citizens are portrayed as brainwashed, and any support for the beneficent elements of the Fire Nation is disregarded as brainwashing. This is another attempt by the Anti-Fire Nation Kingdoms at propagandizing for their war against the Fire Nation.

The Water Tribes, Earth Kingdom, and Air Nomads have their positive elements exaggerated and their flaws are downplayed to enhance the image of the Fire Nation's 'evil'. Conveniently forgetting, of course, that:

The Water Tribe is sexist.

But the Fire Nation treats Women with respect, and allow Women into what would be considered male-dominated industries. Like Prison Guards.

The Earth Kingdom is terrorized by a secret police of Earth Benders.

Created by the Avatar herself.

Who has her own Kyoshi Warriors enforce an isolationist policy that kept Kyoshi Island from developing beyond a tribal society or community. A society which worships Kyoshi as a Goddess.

The Earth Kingdom's state of hierarchal dominance and stratified living persists decades into the future and is never fully eradicated despite the passing of however many Avatars there were since Kyoshi.

Furthermore, the Benders of both the Water Tribes and the Earth Kingdom either oppress the Non-Benders, or enforce policies that oppress the Non-Benders. Master Pakku and the Dai Li are two of the more prominent examples of such oppression.

This contrasts the Fire Nation which values both Benders and Non-Benders. Azula's most trusted associates are both Non-Benders.

While two of the most dangerous people/groups in the Fire Nation, Master Piandao;

And the Yuyan Archers are Non-Benders. Indicating that there is some form of Meritocracy that operates within the Fire Nation. A meritocracy that is almost non-existent or heavily biased in both the Water Tribes and the Earth Kingdom.

The Air Nomads have no Kingdom of their own. This means they do not have a population from which they can draw Airbenders to replenish their numbers. Since the Airbenders are also Monks as a whole, it is very likely that the Air Nomads take Airbenders from the other three factions to fill up the Air Temple.

Further considering the fact that the Air Temple Monks are willing to force Aang into his Avatar training against his wishes. So much so that Aang preferred to risk his life in a storm. It is highly likely that the other three nations have no say when the Air Nomads come looking for Air Benders amongst their citizens.

Now, am I saying that the Fire Nation has its pros and cons?

No.

I'm saying that I'd rather be born in the Fire Nation and that all the negative aspects we are shown in the show are due to propaganda published by those who fear the challenge of the Fire Nation, and its progressive ideas, to their individual power.

And Remember.

Is Ruby Rose (RWBY) a Mary Sue?

Definition of Mary Sue;

In an earlier post, I described the 'Mary Sue' as a narrative trope instead of a character archetype. A 'Mary Sue' occurs when a character's story overshadows the stories of the other characters.

Example;

Harry Potter in the last four books is a Mary Sue mostly because everything after book four is somehow tied to Harry, no matter how obscure or far removed. As a result, the story shrinks around Harry and the world of Magic becomes less interesting the more it focuses on Harry and his conflict with Voldemort.

Is Ruby is Mary Sue?

Based on my definition, no. She is just a badly written character. While all Mary Sues are badly written, not all badly written characters are Mary Sues.

Ozpin is more of the Mary Sue in RWBY. This is because most of RWBY's plot centers around Ozpin's mistakes and his relationships. Especially with Salem.

Therefore, Ruby Rose is not a Mary Sue.

I just think they're neat

Cleric character ideas! Support or commission me here!