You Can 100% Be Angry At Ruby Lying To Ironwood. Here's The Thing.

You can 100% be angry at Ruby lying to Ironwood. Here's the thing.

People want to instantly jump down Ironwood's throat for ignoring Mantle, but Team RWBY have been doing nothing but wasting time and BRINGING the danger onto Atlas and Mantle as they carry the Lamp around with them. As much as they spout about Mantle, they really didn't do anything for them either.

As I had said before in a previous post, Volume 7 is a terribly slow one, as if the writers truly had nowhere to go with the season unless they slowed down a ton of subplots to extend the watch time. Literally nothing happened in Volume 7 until we reached the tail-end of it. Ironwood fighting Watts, Penny and Nora fighting some main antagonists, and Team RWBY still being shafted to the side, and Penny becoming the maiden.

Even Weiss' side mission of investigating her dad was pointless. Yes, I am deadass serious. I've been rewatching Volume 7 just for Ironwood and legitimately, nothing important happens until the near-end. Team Kids weren't remarkable at all and weren't doing anything. Even Robyn went absolutely nowhere and became useless in Volume 8. Sure, it sounds like they were "trying" to set her up for something unique, but all we got was some stupid politics arc and then her team stealing from the military, and yes even the theft was pointless because we never heard about it ever again. And why would we? Team RWBY destroyed Atlas and Mantle.

Actually, both sides didn't do anything special for Mantle. All they could do was just bellyache about it and then get angry with Ironwood whenever he took a breath of air, and Ironwood was focused on Atlas. However, that didn't always mean he didn't care for Mantle. Meanwhile I seriously have no idea what Team Kids wanted for Mantle. Hell, they even became divided into either saving Mantle or saving "everyone" in Volume 8. Seriously?

So, they were running around in circles, chasing their own tails. Hence why the writers must have thought, "oops, we should really wave that magic Staff to wrap all this up, we fucked it up. And kill Ironwood because maybe this will never let us touch the Atlas arc ever again."

Say or think what you will about Volume 7, but to me, Volume 8 really showed its ass.

Just because the kids first started their journey into Atlas by taking a stroll through Mantle, doesn't mean they suddenly care with all their heart. I didn't see anything for them to care about.

One thing to note on people who say that RWBY’s plan with the Staff was better than Ironwood’s. Besides the fact that they “cheated” in using it, Oz never told the headmasters the specifics on how the Relics work, considering that Leo never knew Jinn’s name otherwise Salem would have known too. Ironwood thought it was simply something that generates infinite energy and based his plan around that. But if he knew what the group knew? I believe he would have come up with something much better.

That's a really good point, anon, one I don't think I've seen come up very often in conversations about Ironwood's intentions. Granted, a potential pushback is that just because Leo didn't know something doesn't mean Ironwood is in the same boat, but the story certainly implies that he's just as ignorant. Like Qrow, Ironwood didn't know about Salem's immortality and if he knew more about the Relic you'd expect him to test Ruby's lie in the office. Where did the final questions go? What did you ask? How did you know how to accomplish that when that password is a closely guarded secret? If Ironwood understands the Relics as thoroughly as the group did at the start of Volume 7, Ruby showing up with possession of a super secret password, two questions (supposedly) gone, and Ozpin conspicuously absent is damn suspicious. But if Ironwood understands the Relics only as objects with vague powers, he has no reason to question Ruby or Ozpin. Ruby says questions are gone? He has no reason to doubt that because — again, like Qrow — the show has implied that Ironwood may not have even known that questions were a possibility, let alone how many, how often, how many should actually be left, etc. (Remember that Ozpin had already lied once about the number.) If Qrow was shocked to see Jinn come out, wouldn't Ironwood be too? Now, extrapolate that to the Staff. If Ozpin said only that the Staff produces energy, why would Ironwood doubt that? And that does seem to be what Ozpin told him:

We are going to take our plan for Amity Tower and apply it to the city of Atlas. It was Oz's plan in a former life, but he didn't take it far enough. If we harness the power of the Staff, and raise ourselves high into the atmosphere, the city's artificial climate will keep citizens and food supplies unharmed.

We've long established that Ozpin gives out information in pieces and keeps as much to himself as he can. So he tells his inner circle that Salem wants these Relics, but not why. Later, he divulges that one Relic allows for questions, but they're gone for the next 100 years. Later still, Qrow is shocked to see a freaking magical woman come out of the Lamp, announcing that two questions still remain, because Ozpin both lies and lets people reach inaccurate conclusions based on what he has told them. So at the end of Volume 7, Ironwood is basically in the position of Qrow prior to the snow scene. He hasn't spoken with Ozpin since the Fall of Beacon and, thus, hasn't gone through the same realization of how many secrets have been kept from him. Or rather, he has, but the responsibility for that has shifted to the group. They said the questions were gone. They said Ozpin was gone. They betrayed him to Robyn. They kept Salem's immortality a secret. Ironwood is fully focused on them in this moment — as one would expect given everything that's gone down between them — and shifting through Ozpin's past claims to test their validity is, you know, not something he really has time for. So Ironwood seems to still be working from what Ozpin told him, accepting it as true:

Ozpin suggested that Ironwood use the Staff to raise Atlas.

The implication is that this is what the Staff is capable of doing and only what it's capable of: producing that kind of energy. This is, as Ironwood says, "the power of the Staff."

Atlas' many years of hovering in the air gave Ironwood the idea to hover Amity and reestablish communication between the Kingdoms.

Neither of these ideas take the power "far enough."

So now that Salem is here, let's rise even higher, hopefully out of her reach.

Unless I'm forgetting a scene that says otherwise (very possible), all of this seems to suggest that Ironwood didn't know the Staff could do others things. Like, say, open a bunch of magical portals for the people of Atlas and Mantle to escape through. Though it admittedly doesn't help that RWBY is so damn vague about who knows what and when and how. The group talks about the Staff like a cure-all solution in the dining room, but when did they learn (or assume) that the Staff could do something like fix all these problems? The God of Light didn't give detailed explanations of the Relics in Jinn's vision. The group (I don't think) discussed this at another point... characters just know things when it's convenient. So yes, we could maybe argue that Ironwood just knew about the Staff like the group just knew about it too, or he should have been smart enough to figure it out like the group apparently figured it out (putting aside that this is more about the authors handing certain characters knowledge rather than which characters are actually thinking through potentialities)... but again, the writing doesn't really imply that. And it's implications like this that paint the group as the more responsible party to me. Unlike Ironwood, they had this information for weeks before Salem's arrival. Unlike Ironwood (presumably, based on the above), they understood how the Staff worked. Or, perhaps more accurately, they didn't fully understand, but they had the means with which to learn. Unlike Ironwood, they knew Ozpin was still around and at any point they could have asked him about the Staff, to try and prepare their resources before the war arrived on their doorstep once more. Unlike Ironwood, they hadn't just been betrayed by their allies. Unlike Ironwood, they weren't suffering from a lost limb. Unlike Ironwood, they had two days — not a couple of minutes — to come up with some kind of plan.

It's so easy to be disgusted by Ironwood because yes, the idea of leaving anyone behind is horrific. But take a couple seconds to consider how and why Ironwood made that decision and it's easy to see that it stems from ignorance and prioritizing the many over the few, not a generic, villainous desire to abandon poor people. The group are the ones who had this information the whole time, had the means (thanks to that knowledge) of bettering their circumstances, hadn't just suffered betrayal and gruesome injury, and were later afforded time to literally sit around contemplate their problem for as long as they pleased. The situations are radically different and, thus, so is the blame. It's like watching a relay race where one party has a broken leg, wasn't told where the finish line was, has reason to think his teammates are going to undermine him, and was given about thirty seconds to complete the challenge. "Why couldn't you have just finished the race? Why can't you be more like them" the spectators ask, gesturing to the healthy group who fully trust one another and possess insider knowledge of the race's rules while also having a two day time limit to leisurely jog it. Idk. Why were they successful? Kinda feels like they had some significant advantages that the other party lacked... If we set aside everything else Ironwood was grappling with — betrayal, the shock of Salem's immortality (which the group spent days coming to terms with), losing an arm (what Yang spent months coming to terms with), the threat of immediate destruction, the responsibility of the entire world, and a canonically ambiguous semblance — then yeah, he might have come up with something other than "abandon Mantle" if he had a better idea of how to use the Staff.

Ruby's responsibility as a hero was not to save Mantle after things had reached their absolute breaking point, doing so by dissolving friendships and panicking the entire world. Ruby's responsibility as a hero was to save Mantle by doing long term work before this all went down, like reconciling with Ozpin, practicing her silver eyes, and extending Ironwood the trust she demands from others, so that when Ironwood has a crazy idea like, "Let's just run and leave half the Kingdom behind" she can go, "No, Ozpin has taught me that we can use the Staff in other ways. My abilities mean we can hold off Salem's grimm long enough to finish evacuations and I've extended enough trust to you that you'll trust me now and help me take this risk. I've prepared for this. I've earned it."

If then Ironwood had rejected a perfectly good plan and the offer to work together to instead run and needlessly leave people behind to die... yeah, then he'd be a cowardly antagonist who needs to be stopped. As it's written, he's just an understandably panicked man doing his best against a buttload of opposition from the people meant to be helping him.

Its not about winning.

Its about being able to look Odin in his eye and say: 'Yes, I fought.'

Something that RWDE doesn't seem to get is that in the grand scheme of things, for all of their posts, their threats, and their bullshit, nothing they would do matters. For better or worse, nothing will change with RWBY.

Seriously. All their bashing and "critiques" amount to nothing. Maybe it would have back in V1, when RWBY had the budget of two cents worth of pocket lint, but now? With a better budget, an actual corporation backing them, and a diehard fanbase worldwide? What could a bunch of haters, dudebro YouTubers and "Monty's Vision" folk do against that? Japan's already made dubs for the rest of the Volumes!

Why would Roosterteeth risk changing any writers with CRWBY when Miles and Kerry have been practically raking in cash already? Why would they cancel the show when it's basically the company's cash cow? Why change the status quo because a bunch of randos on the internet say so?

RWDE has been fighting a losing battle since day one. There's no way that they can actually change anything the RWBY writers do for the show.

Everyone makes it sound like Zaheer caused the rise of Kuvira.

Everyone forgets that Kuvira came to power under Korra's watch.

Also, everyone thinks Zaheer and the Red Lotus wouldn't depressurize Kuvira's lungs the moment she gets uppity.

The Red Lotus is the natural predator of dictators, and Korra's ham-fistedness ruined the balance of the ecosystem.

So much for the Avatar and the balance of the Kingdoms.

You can say that "death threats towards the writers are bad" as many times as you want.

At the end of the day, it is due to RWBY critics on social media who have led to the toxic culture that believes in such harassment.

Vic Micnogna being innocent? Adam Taurus being "retconned"? Ironwood being "forced into villainy?" Bumbleby being "forced?" Roman Torchwick being "forcibly" killed off?

These beliefs came from your community. Toxicity. Hatred. General slander against the writers.

You can say that this doesn't represent the critics of RWBY, but without haters like you, those people would never have gotten this toxic.

After all , you harass people like Lilith on a regular basis. But permitting harassment of Xel Writer?

twitter.com kiersi status 1530374563636252672

This is the fault of RWBY Critics, for you people are toxic.

I have always found the concept of "guilt by association" fascinating, especially when one is not associated with the people in question.

According to you anon, it does not matter what i say or do, that being arguing against and banning anyone who would ever think about sending death threads. I am still guilty, because you think i am guilty.

Should i then call the entirety of RWBY community sexist? Ableist? Homophobic? Racist? Because the RWBY fandom has had people expressing these kinds of views before. Do i then have the right to paint the entirety community based on these morally repugnant individuals?

I also have to be surprised at your examples of RWDE beliefs. Most of the beliefs you mentioned have nothing to do with death threats or toxicity. They are just opinions.

I would like to believe that i have curbed toxicity with my presence in the fandom, especially since as a moderator i can ban and remove content that for example intentionally targets the writers personally. Which i have done.

I will take no blame for random people and their actions, just like i dont expect the fandom to take blame for random people and their actions.

But i do thank you for a very clear example that it does not matter what we in the RWDE community do. You will still find reasons to hate us just for existing. I would suggest you to let go of your hatred, it never does a person good.

Have a good day my friend.

I never finished this and I suppose I really ought to

Repost because someone decided to false flag this as porn ha ha haaa

Can y'all not