The Dynamic Of Ascended Astarion And Tav

The dynamic of Ascended Astarion and Tav

While finishing up the piece with the dragon spawn I made studies to catch ascended Astarion character essence ✍️ Here’s one of them:

Astarion the Ascended 🖤

#astarion #baldursgate3 #bg3 #larianstudios

The video of the process is in edit 💪

Agree. Or it's on purpose. Or it's clumsy fanservice. Punish and show the dynamics of victimhood and heartless abuse with a single evil man. No one thought about the dynamics of the ally, well, yes.

Why is it even possible to do romance with Astarion then? Therefore he is not c-h for so many reasons. He is an evil character, for the path of evil, he likes to kill just for fun...

I'm not asking for this novel to be "health and equality", I never have been, I'm asking for a complex not b&w, dynamic with care and possessiveness and love.

If “evil” didn’t love, we wouldn’t have romance with Astarion and Minthara at all.

Im not updating my game Thank you @darkurgediaries for recording all the kisses. Reasons below the cut for my decision: Don't open if you don't want to hear my opinions its fine, you guys can scroll past it no problem.

Ill be honest I hate ascended Astarions kisses besides the 3rd one. the 3rd is the ONLY one I like out of them. I do like the lip bite in the one kiss but I have issues with the kisses overall.

Im not going to get too into it bc I just went on a huge discord rant in dms to some friends about it and sent feedback to larian about it. If you like it, thats great for everyone else but I'm going to stay here on patch 5 until either modders change it or larian themselves do because im tired of feeling shoehorned into good paths if I dont want to feel punished as a player.

And thats how I feel. I feel like with the bhaalist durge ending and now with ascended Astarions kisses that the players are being punished. Thats my personal feelings on the matter and it leave a bitter taste in my mouth and just makes me so goddamned disappointed and let down. On the knees: My issue with this one is his cold facial expressions + tav / durges scared ones + the fact this is not appropriate in many settings especially in public. The expressions make this look ABUSIVE not consensual. It appears cold hearted and distant.

Lip bite kiss: I like the lip bite, its nice. However the way he shoves her face away lowkey looks like hes slapping her. Again it makes it appear abusive and cold hearted.

Karlach's old kiss turned a A!A kiss: This one I actually like but I would like if it was tied to if you chose him to be rough or gentle when being turned and this be an option for if you chose rough.

The reason all of this bothers me: To me it feels out of character The game always emphasized choices. Even on ascended path you could choose what you both would do. hes never been portrayed as abusive. Manipulative and toxic yes. But not abusive. He does love you but these animations do not show it.

In the ending if you manage to get to the end without long resting he LETS YOU GO. he doesn't force you to stay if you break up with him he respects your decision. Likewise he wont force you to become his spawn and is willing to wait until YOU are ready. This shows he respects choice and autonomy

During the scene when he turns you, you can CHOOSE for him to be gentle or rough and he'll comply. AGAIN respects choice and autonomy. These kisses do NOT feel like its respecting your autonomy in any way shape or form with the expressions and rough actions. It doesn't feel consensual because of the expressions and how forceful it is. And im someone whos kinky af and I DO like dominant men but this does not feel like a dom / sub, this does not feel like we're his consort. It doesn't even feel like we're a pet like some people like to justify it as.

These kisses feel like our choices didn't matter. Like it didn't matter what our character wanted or what we as players wanted. Because if we chose for him to be gentle, now hes being rough and our characters DO NOT look like they are consenting.

How do I suggest Larian fixes it?

I get theres people who WILL like these kisses, and im not shaming you or saying its wrong if you do. My suggestions are as follow

Fix the expressions so tav / durge looks more into it and give Astarion a more passionate / loving expression thats less cold

Make the face push less forceful or change the expressions

Make it so your choices on what im dubbing "bite night" matters, if you choose for him to be gentle have kisses different to these ones that are still dominant still possessive but more romantic, passionate and a bit gentler. Think the butt grab kiss something on that line of forcefulness. no grabbing the neck, no pushing the face, no forcing you on your knees if you chose gentle.

likewise if you chose rough have THESE animations, the ones im talking about in this post as the animations for that choice.

Everyone would be kept happy without sacrificing their "Vision" for the game or without screwing another group of fans over.

"AA fans acting like they're the most oppressed-"

This is the blindest take I've seen in a while. That's like a bully and their friends gaslighting their victim to think they aren't being bullied. Or worse, an adult who turns a blind eye to the bullying and lies to the victim's parents about it. Yes, I've been there. And as someone who's also been there due to loving villains... YIKES. This take has to be made by someone living under a rock.

Let me tell you a little secret: Any fan of a villain is looked down on and made fun of by the larger fandom these days for it. This happens in EVERY fandom. It seems to have become a pastime for some considering how they can't keep the fans out of their mouths. Once upon a time, this wasn't as rampant, but as people grew more entitled and "morally just" over fiction, it has become a problem.

These fans are constantly lectured about what's "healthy" or how their fave is toxic with these "savior" types pretending to be concerned for them IRL because of their likes when they're not (one of the biggest manipulation tactics in the book), bombarded with hate, harassed for having the "wrong take" about the precious little Pookie, told they're "delulu," "can't tell what abuse is" or "want to be abused IRL" every time they turn around by those who are literally "pot-meets-kettle" for their own takes, told how they should enjoy their fantasy or that they can like a toxic character "BUUUUUUUUT *insert some asinine reason that contradicts why anyone does anything with fiction*", and sneered at in public and private forums, hence why it's hard to find a Discord that allows AA and the non-harassment of AA fans. When they have a grievance with something, like someone role-playing their character for them, they're met with hostility by those who don't have to deal with it, but we all know would be devastated if it happened to them. People invade their tags constantly to make these fans aware of what they think of them then pretend to be the victim when they're called out for it, perhaps looking to add themselves to some fanclub to say "See? They harrassed me too!" It's pretty transparent and, not going to lie, sad.

This behavior would make a villain proud. I won't call them Spawn Fans because that would blanket people who don't do this. The spawn community is much larger than the ascended, after all. These are antagonists who happen to like Astarion, plain and simple. It wouldn't be fair to everyone on the spawn side to be labeled malcontents, just like it isn't fair to say all AA fans are the problem. It's disingenuous and sounds like something a corrupt politician would pull with "Them vs Us" logic.

I've seen this behavior firsthand from antis in both this fandom and my previous ones. Hell, and I'm not an AA fan. I'm an Astarion fan, meaning I prefer him as a whole and use his endings for story purposes, and I STILL got hate for just talking about Ascended. What's your excuse for that now?

So yeah, I can see why anyone who likes or prefers AA can be so defensive or scared to like him. They're TIRED of having to push back. Those scared to like him see what's going on and don't want that kind of hate on them. I feel sorry for them because holier-than-thou types are keeping them from enjoying the character the way they want.

Hint: If you have the urge to go out of your way to tell the minority group of the fandom something hateful or mean, or have some wild opinion or assumption about them that's part of a bigger issue within the fandom that may include you, you're part of the problem.

One take tried using alleged harassment Larian was going through on their Discord recently as an excuse for their behavior when called out for using the main tags to antagonize AA fans then contradicted their own message in the replies about not telling people what to do. How do you expect to stop or lessen the harassment of developers and VAs when you can't stop harassing real people in fandoms over fiction? This is the same behavior only one is with fans, and the other is with professionals. You're not any better because you think it's different. You're contributing to this and should be treated as such.

Most AA fans have already been vocally against harassment of any kind and look to shut down that behavior when witnessed (this is common in villain-loving circles BECAUSE of the rep we get from antis. Some other parts of the fandom have come to find that villain lovers can be some of the nicest people you'll ever meet vs. those who hate villains), but if you're blind enough to say they aren't oppressed or harassed, then you'd be blind to that as well and are only looking for problems to inflate.

What a dynamic with the Ascended Astarion I'm playing.

What dynamics are at play for Larian marketers

I seriously can't with people who paint Astarion as a "good guy who does nothing wrong." Joking, yes, it's funny, I would partake in that as well especially to troll someone who hates Astarion as a whole, but when someone is legit comparing him to his Ascended form and pretending he wasn't a homicidal sociopath in the beginning... it's like...

Why are you even an Astarion fan? Is it only because he's hot? If you strip him of his personality and who he is, he just has his looks left. You want Wyll's personality with Astarion's looks.

He takes pleasure in hurting and killing people, even as a spawn in post game. He's happy to find out murder is okay when "it's the right people". He even talks about impaling someone in his spawn group if they killed another gnome. He is cunty, mean, power hungry, tramatized, hurt, will insult you to your face and imply that you're stupid and easy. THIS is who Astarion is, straight out of the box. Yeah, he can be sweet to ONE person, but that does not negate the rest of him. He. Is. A. Glorious. Bastard.

Now, it has me wondering about the legitimacy of some Astarion lovers because are they loving him as a character or just his looks? It would explain a couple of things I've seen in the fandom if it's the latter.

Some of the stuff I read just demolishes Neil's performance and the writing for Astarion's character.

If this was AU stuff, fine, but he's being compared to canon Ascended as if it drastically altered him when it amplified him instead. I just can't as an antagonist/anti-hero/villain lover. It makes me want to scream into a pillow and bite down full force.