Reblog Bg3 - Tumblr Posts
Hey do you think Astarion sat beside Tav all night when he turned them into a spawn ahaha… like even if you dislike Ascended Astarion you have to admit that even if you think he doesn’t care about Tav, (I say he does but to each they’re own ig) he still cares they’re his first spawn and wants to make sure that it works and they don’t go through it in the same painful way he did. Do you think he watched them the entire time? Do you think he he held their hand and waited for any sign of life? Do you think he fell asleep kneeling on the floor with his head against the bed and his fingers still intertwined with theirs?………………
The Ascended route for Astarion isn't bad in my opinion. It's evil, but not bad. Also I love how Astarion is no longer afraid and he has so much confidence.
My Tav broke her oath so that he may thrive, and in turn he gave her eternal life. That's such a good start of their happily forever after romance story. I love it.
Tav has more power over Ascended Astarion
Argue with me or don't -BUT!!!
In the intricate dance of their relationship, Ascended Astarion finds himself in a position of vulnerability, as Tav holds the reins of power. And yes I mean that.
Tav is not just the object of his desires; they are the emotional anchor that deeply affects Astarion's decisions and actions. Astarion's love, obsession and control for Tav exposes his emotional vulnerability, making him more open to complying with Tav's wishes, even as a Lord Vampire.
Why I think that?
The significance of Tav in Astarion's life cannot be overstated. The mere thought of losing Tav is a prospect he dreads, as Tav is the one he genuinely cares about. Astarion's emotional dependence on Tav further underscores the power Tav holds over him, even if it seems to like the other way around.
Beyond emotions, Astarion's love for Tav manifests in a desire to provide and please. He is willing to go to great lengths, whether through lavish gifts, the prospect of being Tav's consort, or the intimacy of their connection. Even in the aftermath of a breakup, Astarion's longing for Tav persists, expressed through grand gestures and attempts to win them back.
This power dynamic extends even to the realm of a potential spawn. Tav's awareness of this influence adds an intriguing layer, suggesting a subtle manipulation where a mere glance could prompt Astarion to fulfill Tav's desires. In this intricate web of emotions and power, Tav not only holds sway over Astarion's heart but also commands a significant influence over the course of their shared narrative. The power dynamics between them, marked by love, desire, and emotional vulnerability, make their relationship a captivating and complex storyline.
After watching the BG3 Epilogue, now have a new Ascended!Astarion Headcanon:
Even though he's supposed to be this almighty and terrifyingly powerful Vampire Lord, if by chance he overindulges in wine, Astarion can't control his transformation into a bat.
Because of this Vampire Bride!Tav has to scoop this little white drunken, floppy bat off the floor or fish him out from laying head-first in a goblet to carry him home in a satchel since he can't fly more than a few feet without spiraling into something.
Just imagine Batstarion trying to take flight but being so inebriated he thinks he's flying up and over a tree but instead he's just spiraling hard left into a bunch of bushes and Tav just sighs and goes over to go pick him up before he runs into something else or transforms mid flight and falls into a pile of crates again.
I did it, after 1.5k hours I finally DID NOT ascend Astarion.
Never felt more disgusted in my life when playing a game lol. How is that supposed to be the "good" ending? All I heard from him (on a romance path too) is him horribly coping.
At first I failed to pick right options during the Cazador scene and he fucking just left and I was like "you know what, yeah, he should dump Tav's ass for this" and my bf spent at least 30 mins trying to convince me to reroll a save and do it right (I wanted at least one goody-two-shoes playthrough).
Epilogue is so horribly unrewarding too. The romance path ends up with just him... barely even acknowledging the relationship (big big contrast from Ascended where he constantly reminds Tav that they are together) and there's only one miserable "uwu" line when asked about what Tav is to him?
I legitimately don't get how people prefer this. I feel icky for not Ascending him and I'm never doing it again but at least I did it once to have all the save files for reference and I guess that's enough.
Yuck.
I'm becoming more and more enamored with the idea of Ascended Astarion becoming an accidental/unintentional service dom because either:
1. If you enjoy the vampire bride/groom lore/angle, Astarion's happiness becomes partially dependent on that of his consort (potentially with a more direct mental link), and he learns making them happy isn't actually that hard, and when he does, it hits him like cocaine and he ends up spending all of his time chasing that high.
2. If you don't subscribe to that lore, there's also the angle of love being twisted into obsession for vampires. He will be taking over the world, of course, but first, he MUST make sure his consort has the prettiest outfits. Every single day. (He has an eternity to dominate the universe, what's the rush?)
And in either scenario, coupled with his smooth brain/lack of strategic planning, he never really does fulfill the big bad evil villain endgame because he's too busy conquering his consort's every whim (the exception being any request for becoming a 'true' vampire, which I just don't see him entertaining, but that's just me!). But if you prod him about his big evil plans, he'll become very grumpy and mutter something about how his grand plan is definitely in motion, you don't even know!!
(This all makes me think of the A!A epilogue dialogue if you ask him about freedom, and he rants about all the things he's made sure you have/how he'll see you living your best life no matter what). 👀
After thinking a bit I've come to the conclusion that Astarion's insecurities must have really intensified in Act 3.
With his romance in mind, in Act 1 & 2 there really isn't much else could distract Tav away from him. Yes, there is the occasional proposition from other camp members, but for the most part that's about it.
In Act 1, everyone is focused on trying to figure out what has happened to them and looking for a cure. Then there's the addition of the Grove conflict and the Goblins.
In Act 2, things shift to dealing with the shadow curse and the mess in Moonrise Tower.
As far as interactions go, it really all business once they leave camp for the first two Acts. If Astarion wants to try and grow the bond between Tav and himself he can without worrying of anyone else really catching Tav's eye.
Then Act 3 comes along and everything shifts. They aren't in the middle of nowhere fighting monsters and fanatics. They are in a large city with an active population. It's hard to avoid interactions with random strangers just walking from one area to another.
Astarion, who already feels unworthy of Tav, is now having to deal with others constantly making passes on Tav. Prostitutes, merchants, Gortash (if Tav is Durge), Nobles, Devils, and even most of the members of the camp. So many people make eyes at Tav and it probably makes him uncomfortable.
Of course, he puts on his usual mask to hide it, but deep down his fear of losing Tav is firing constantly.
If you go the ascended route, this may also feed into his desire to share eternity with them so soon after the ritual. He wants to give them something none of the others can. He wants to do something that can't be broken easily. He wants to be part of Tav.
Tav is his everything and he wants to be their everything too. He still believes himself a monster and to be damaged. Yet, he can't let go. He wants to be with the person who saw beyond the scars, fangs, and blood. He wants to be with the person that makes him feel whole.
Seeing the headcanons of Ascended Astarion being able to grow huge batwings and I love it! Someone please pass the idea along to Larian or a modder.
Imma go think about how to work that into my fics now.
:'DDD goshhh how I saw the issue, yet the writer seems to think all I'm doing is viewing him as a "sex object" -.- I just see how he's been through so much stuff and is desperate for power, so he should take it for himself.
Not every Tav/DU is going to treat him "right" and I had no idea he would turn my character into a vampire so I was thinking long term how he could amass the most power to prevent him having to suck up to the whims of others to protect himself.
What stuck out to me the most was him getting his sense of smell and taste back since I lost that years ago due to Covid. So now everything tastes like rotten garage and sewer water, which is demoralizing to say the least xDDD so his comment about the wine at the party tasting like vinegar really hit me and was a main reason for why I ascended him as well.
Since I have three or four asks from anons who don't seem to understand this, I'm going to put this here:
Evil ending: the morally wrong/wicked ending. If you are trying to say "morally bad", it's evil. The story doesn't end. It continues on with morally wrong choices. This tends to rely on the hero making a conscious choice to become evil or becoming incredibly selfish where the choice puts others in harm's way.
Bad ending: Death or failure. In most cases, the bad ending storyline ends abruptly but can also include a fate worse than death. Think of "Choose Your Own Ending/Adventure" books and how you can end your story with one wrong move. If the story doesn't end and the bad choice doesn't kill them, the character is usually haunted by their failure for the rest of their lives and cannot change what they've done or that they were corrupted into something that resembles an evil being.
Good ending: Morally right or successful. You determine its meaning by pairing it with one of the above.
If you have to go "Oh, no, by bad ending they mean evil," then it's clear that there is a difference and there needs to be a different word there to clarify your stance.
And the fun part is Evil and Good can have both Good and Bad endings of their own:
Evil Good: Villian succeeds.
Evil Bad: Villain fails/dies.
Good Good: Hero succeeds.
Good Bad: Hero fail/die.
These are just bases that you can do whatever you want with. You can withhold or add more details to determine what kind of Good and Evil you're going for, either Black and White with few details or complex with more details, blurring the lines. Oh, and don't forget the neutral base that calls it as they see it.
Good/Evil aren't permanent statuses. They can change. Good/Bad is more permanent to give warnings or teach hard lessons. You have to cope with whatever they bring.
Ascended Astarion x Spawn Tav
Tav eventually discovers Astarion's grave on his own. He spends time cleaning up the spot since it's clear it hasn't been visited since Astarion clawed out of the ground. He brings his lover's favorite flower to the grave and eventually puts a seed in the ground so a plant can bloom. He carves a little message into the stone, "No longer alone and cherished deeply."
He turns up every now and then to keep the site well cared for. Somewhere down the line, the plant is thriving and Tav cuts the extra blossoms and bring them to the Palace.
Astarion begins to notice the fresh flowers, but other details start sticking out to him too. He spies dirt under his consort's nails. The smell of the flowers clings to him and... more interestingly, the scent of a graveyard.
One night catches sight of his Tav leaving with an empty basket. He follows out of curiosity of what the man is up to.
loving the idea (these are just some of my HCs for a soft A!A) that Astarion turned Tav so he could forever have someone to love. Like he created Tav to be loved and held by him. Gave Tav life eternal, made you part of him, for that reason alone. he didn’t create spawn!Tav to fight, or even scheme really (Astarion does all the work) — you literally just sit around Astarion’s palace, eat good, life forever, and party with your gorgeous pale bestie/lover.
that’s also the very first thing he does as the ascendant is turn his lover. He needs Tav/Durge to be his forever.
Astarion doesn’t really know how to love, so he just gives all that he can. I think with time, A!A can grow. Him and Tav’s love and relationship will only evolve, and a soft A!A just wants his consort to be happy. needs his consort to be happy.
You can even run off with Karlach and Astarion is just like “yeah i’ve just been preparing things for when you come back to me” like some kinda nesting bird (once you return to him, you won’t ever leave again. but he spoils you so much you don’t ever want to)
like imagine him decorating the palace with things he thinks Tav will like, or will impress Tav. Having the freshest intelligent blood waiting for them upon their return from the hells.
ugh this is romantic TO ME
Hot take but we all need to stop acting like Tav is Ascended!Astarion's unwilling companion. Like we didn't go through all the choices to make this happen, or ask for it, and like we didn't also commit mass murder.
Campfire Lord and consort, every long rest
Astarion: to live without you, only that would be torture
Tav/durge: a day alone, only that would be death~
Jaheira, halfway across the camp: knock it off
AA & tav/durge:
There are SO many different ways to interpret Ascended Astarion and his relationship with Tav/Durge which is why I find myself so fascinated by that path. One angle I haven't seen talked about too much that I think is so compelling is a resist Durge who happily becomes his consort.
With the caveat that I haven't finished the Durge story in game (but have been spoiled for most of it), I think about a Durge who defeated their father, who is allegedly 'cured' of their urges from doing so, but probably still carries with them the trauma and terror of being controlled like that again. There's an argument that that would make a resist Durge less likely to let A!A turn them, but on the other side of it, what if it's a huge comfort to them?
They're handing control to someone they love and deeply trust as opposed to having the reins be held by some unknown force, or worse, by themselves, who they don't entirely trust, either.
Whether they should trust Astarion could have a hundred different answers depending on someone's HCs for the relationship, but lets roll with the angle that the love between them is genuine.
And Astarion knows that forgoing this control and handing it to him is a relief for Durge; they never have to worry about potentially succumbing to some rogue urge again, if they could theoretically be compelled or otherwise stopped from carrying it out. And I know the general consensus is an embraced Durge could eat A!A for breakfast, so I'm seeing this specifically for a resist Durge angle.
So Astarion hams it up in large part for Durge, because that display of dominance, even when it's somewhat theatrical, is part of that comfort. Reminds Durge they're in good hands, someone's looking out for them, they're not alone, in the sort of ways they need to be reminded of all of that. They never have to be afraid again; he did promise that, after all.
Ascended Astarion Appreciation Post
I'm not going to do a true analysis here because I feel like all the individual lines of spawn/ascended/neutral Astartion and how broad the interpretations of them can be depending on the context of your playthrough have already been discussed ad nauseam by the fandom. The stellar voice work only adds to the ability for a player to feel a connection with whatever narrative they like best. However, I want to throw my personal experience with his storyline into the ring because I feel it's rather unusual.
For my style of play, I initially only brought Astarion along on my 'clever evil' run. I had no knowledge of his storyline before I started and didn't do any metagaming to win his approval; I just brought him along because the 2 minutes I saw of him in my main run made him seem like a good fit for a Tav with selfish choices. This was a custom bard playthrough where I made everyone love me by being a great con artist, killed the few who might make my rise to power more difficult (like the Nightsong), and lightly manipulated our companions into giving me their protection while I only took on minor risk. Naturally, Astarion played well with this character. He was entertained by having a partner to 'play' with, one who didn't get put off by cruel comments or his lust for power and was good at pretending to be manipulated by the questionably charismatic vampire.
I expected the power lust and loss of humanity toward the end of his story. What I did not expect was that by doing an Ascended playthrough first, I would ruin my desire to reload for the Spawn ending later. After all, aren't you supposed to want to do the "Good" thing when your default gameplay style is Good-aligned?
What solidified it for me were two things. First, his response to the Gur. His reaction suggested to me that he was probably a power-hungry noble before he was turned, one who paid the consequences for his cruelty, jumped at the chance for an escape through Cazador when faced with the consequences of that cruelty, and then spent the next 200 years being tortured horrifically for it. From everything I gleaned through his half-retelling, his story was much like the victims of hags or devils. I felt bad for the disproportionate horror of his fate, but there was an odd sort of justice in it as well, one that had long descended into pure evil thanks to the creature he fell victim to.
The second thing that turned me from doing a full playthrough just to see the Spawn ending was, oddly enough, the confession where he explains he's been manipulating you and has accidentally developed feelings. Now, this is partly because I may have accidentally skipped part of the animation, but when I decided to reciprocate the 'heartfelt feelings' as part of my character's manipulation, his answering smirk seemed to say, "Gotcha. So all I have to do is act vulnerable, weak, and like I would be nicer if someone just loved me for once in my life, and they'll protect me forever. I can do that."
After that point, I could never take any statement he made about redemption seriously, especially not if he was particularly blunt about it. The nail-on-the-head speeches I'd seen from him on the spawn path seemed exactly that - too perfect. Like it was exactly what a good character would want to hear, and something a rather poor manipulator but one who specializes in making people feel loved (which Astarion is) would fall back on. That's not to say the words don't ring with truth - they really do thanks to the beautiful voice work - but in the context of his relationship with power and dependence, every word felt like falling back on old habits to manage his fears. Ones he may not even be aware of, truthfully.
Do I think that was the intent by the writers? Absolutely not. But the more I pressed on in the story and he never reverted to that overly sweet act after he realized my character was actually more interested in giggling with him over how to obtain absolute power, the more it felt like the whole 'poor victim' act, although absolutely rooted in some truth, was truly an act to him.
He was terrified, would always be terrified, and had no problem doing whatever he needed to do in order to keep that terror at bay. His desperation made him easy to manipulate. He begged for both the tadpole's powers and Raphael's deal, staying true to a character that would always take the risk as long as it didn't threaten his vanity like the astral tadpole did. He was clearly incapable of forming a healthy relationship with anyone and had no interest in actually working on himself. Still, he was a master at adjusting his behaviors just enough to make himself safer in his new 'goodish' environment by acting like he had come to appreciate goodness. Not that he was ever completely heartless, even on a selfish/evil run, but it became clear that he mostly wanted goodness for himself. He didn't want a lack of chains in the world. He wanted to be the one holding them.
Ascending him was the obvious choice in an evil run. I would both be giving him the one thing he truly wanted and putting him forever in my debt...at least until his annoyance at having a debt outweighed his fear of being alone.
Becoming his spawn, on the other hand, was a hard choice. And probably the most satisfying narrative choice I made in all my playthroughs, good or evil.
For context, I had refused to use any tadpole powers in this run, giving it to him instead, so he could deal with the risk while being pleased by being handed more power. I didn't want to sacrifice anything personally while I was busy putting everyone in my debt. But here I was faced with a dilemma - did I have confidence that my character could still manipulate this vampire driven by fear enough to take the world if I let him turn me into a spawn so I could be immortal? Would the good and evil armies I'd raised to my name be enough to stop Astarion if he started to lose his utter devotion to me and made me a mindless thrall? If I said no or suddenly cast doubt on him, he'd certainly be enraged, given my prior support of him and his fear of rejection. Was the danger of angering him on top of losing that ascended vampire power worth my mortal freedoms? How long would that freedom even last if I said no, assuming he truly did end up exactly like Cazador, who would likely have just taken it from me in a rage?
Interestingly, this choice was made for me by the insight check that some people hate so much. When I saw he thought my character was still above him, that I had to degrade myself to be with him, I realized the man's leash hadn't gone anywhere. I could use him to get me the world. Yes, he would continue trying to manipulate me with empty promises, but I would continue manipulating him in turn by appealing to his petty vanity and insecurities. And together, we could have everything he ever lusted after with the only cost being a soul he was more than willing to lose.
I think the perfect cap to this was the ending. A romanced Ascended Astarion's ending was easily the most satisfying ending part of all the little character moments of all my playthroughs. The evil power fantasy was perfect. With the choices I made, it implied he was 100% as much my thrall as I was his (less literally in his case), leaving the corruption of his character beyond pure power lust open to interpretation. Add to that the satisfaction of his new unique dialogs near that end, and I was blown away. His confidence, for once, did not seem fake, though it was still informed by the fears that had driven him from the beginning. It was not his most healed or kind self (and how could he be either of those in any ending after 200 years of torture unless he was lying?), but his most free self, enjoying everything he ever wanted in a blaze of glory, relishing in his control, and fully giving himself to the newfound passions given by his second life.
Is he evil, selfish, and controlling? Absolutely. Will some hero inevitably take him out down the line when he gets a little too crazy with his powers? Probably. But such is the beauty and fun of the evil power fantasy.
It's unfortunate that playing this route, I can't enjoy how he is chained by the spawn route. I can understand what it is trying to do. Promoting the power of forgiveness, love, and support to allow someone to be their best self. It aims to apply human healing patterns to a supernatural creature in a cathartic way, one that has been successful for a great many people. But for me, it just doesn't land.
On runs where I care about his fate on a personal level, I hate to see him forced into a life where he loses all the things that have brought him joy, either now or when his lover dies. I don't want my choices 'for his own good' to mandate he forever sacrifices his own wants and needs. I hate how he tells you that you made the right choice after things have calmed down if you refuse to help him because what other option does he have? You've stripped him of hope outside of your protection. Without a cure, he's helpless at the feet of the Good heroes surrounding him who could end him in an instant if he's anything other than grateful and fawning for how much you've saved him. After the other route, that fate feels like dying a second slow death for a character so desperate for freedom and power, no matter how self-destructive it is. And since he basically says you did the 'right thing' when you have a high relationship no matter what end you choose with him, Good or Evil or in-between, it loses its power to me as a narrative anchor to any feel-good moments.
Personally, I like Astarion most as a character who is able to fulfill his base desires, ugliness and all. I think he's written in a way where he's well-suited to be both a victim and an awful person. I like the unique narrative of him being someone who is a bit of a monster and most fulfilled by being his worst self rather than seeking redemption, but appreciate that most people feel more fulfilled by a route where he's humanized and gets to heal through romance or a supportive friend.
I encourage everyone to find their own favorite variation of him. To me, he is one of the messiest characters who can have wildly different 'truths' depending on the context of your playthrough and your interpretations of his lines. Since he's a known liar and manipulator (and an unfathomably old one at that by human standards), there are a million and one different headcanons you can use to fill in the blanks on what he really means, who he really is, and what he really wants or needs.
I hope everyone out there enjoys whatever version of Astarion they like best. For me, I think I just might have to try a different variation on an evil playthrough. I want to see what other contexts I can get for his Ascension story and whether any of them hit as many satisfying narrative notes as my first.
Fandom has Critically Failed a Media Literacy Check: Thoughts on Ascended Astarion
TLDR: Yes, he's evil. Yes, he's still in love with you.
Okay so now that I know more about both Spawn and Ascended Astarion from personal playthrough experience, I have to say it's really weird to me how much the fandom is pinning them against each other. In all practicality, they're the same fucking person.
Astarion's non-romance specific lines are practically identical. If you're his friend with high approval, he's pretty badass, if a megalomaniac. His self-obsession and self-importance make sense in context, though, and they aren't even that much more pretentious than his earlier expressions of desire for power. It's just that he has the power now. He says he's happy, is excited to be prosperous in his own way, and continues helping you. He's no more cruel than he was before. I can't speak to low-approval lines because my games will always reach "Exceptional" levels of approval for my favourite party members, but I can't imagine them being any different than low-approval spawn lines.
On Love
When romanced, the biggest fandom criticism I'm seeing is this idea that Astarion no longer loves his romantic partner. I have been looking for evidence of this and can't find anything indicating its truth. The closest thing is a post-breakup conversation which, in my opinion, is a huge cop-out. Even still, it does not say anything about his love for you -- only your love for him.
"Of course I understand love. All too well. The greatest crimes committed in this world are committed for love. A hunger crueler than bloodlust. I know how to play with it, and I can't resist playing the hand I know. I would have ruined your love, used your trust until you were nothing. So, for what it's worth, I respect you for making the choice you did. I never knew you had it in you."
I can imagine these lines were written for a very practical reason: They don't want break-ups to affect game-play. An entirely evil Ascended Astarion would just swan the fuck off if his partner left him, and that's not fair to a player who just doesn't want to be in a relationship in-game anymore. This is different than if the character breaks up with the player, because that usually happens because of some sort of cruelty the player chose. Actively trying to kill him, failing to persuade him after showing support for his ascension, or kicking him the balls after agreeing to be his spawn are all actively mean on the player's part. (Or an unfortunate dice roll, but it is - after all - still a game.)
Having Astarion leave the player after he breaks up with you is a consequence of these cruel actions; having Astarion leave after you break up with him is a game-play issue. They can't realistically account for why the player would do so. So they've thought of a realistic reason for Ascended Astarion to stick around: he respects you.
But I also think this speaks to Ascended Astarion's character.
People like to point out the way he says love in this line, as though it is something disgusting - something beneath him. Yes, he probably hates the concept, hates the feeling of it. But: he didn't like it much when he first fell in love with you either, as a spawn.
And he's only felt it once before you broke up with him, so there's that.
Astarion is insecure, even ascended, and if the player speaks for him - tells him he can't love, says he is too cruel, his actions thereby will only justify those concerns. It is a self-fulfilling prophesy, but that is not a result of him not loving you; that's a result of you saying he can't.
Reflect on this: Of course I understand love. All too well. I would have ruined your[s].
He loved you. He loves you, still. He can't say he doesn't, even if he respects your decision to leave him. However, he also feels that love is ruinous. He has become an even darker, more evil creature than he was before, and he believes your connection to him would be destructive. Consider that you have just denied him what he wanted: you. His love for you has hurt him, so he feels that he would hurt you back. He gave his trust to you, and you broke his heart, so he maintains that the same would happen to you: that he would use your trust until you were nothing, like he is. That is Astarion's nature both before and after ascension, but it is not an argument to show that he no longer loves you. That is an argument to show that ascended Astarion is just as lost, insecure and retaliatory as he was when you first met.
On the other hand, if you do not break up with Astarion, there are copious lines which showcase his love and complete devotion to his partner:
"You sweet, sweet thing. I want what's best for you too, of course." (In response to: "I hope you learned to love me," he says,) "What's to say I don't? I'm willing to share all of this with you. What's that if not love?"
(In response to: "I hope we can work things out and stay together," he says,) "Of course we can. You're the one that I want, the one that I love... My dark consort. My right hand. My most beloved spawn."
("So what would I be? A vampire, or your spawn?") "You wouldn't just be some spawn - you're far more than that to me. We could be together for eternity, ruling this world side by side. We could have it all."
("It sounds like you'd have it all.") "I already have everything. Except you by my side."
These lines come from the conversation before choosing to become his spawn or breaking up with him. All of these responses explicitly demonstrate Astarion's love for the player. Now that he achieved his greatest goal to become his strongest self, his desire is to share his success with you. As a vampire, that means to become like him, to become his. In a very real but evil way, he is very obviously asking you to marry him. And he's being very honest about it.
I've seen a lot of arguments about these lines which pretty much come down to: he's lying. But, kindly, fuck off. That isn't an argument; there is absolutely no reason to think he's lying here unless you have already chosen to think he's lying, and that's just another self-fulfilling prophesy.
Astarion being evil does not automatically mean that he's lying. Astarion's voice acting here does not automatically mean that he's lying, either. Yes, he sounds different: he is more self-assured, more powerful, more arrogant - but he's not fundamentally different in his ideals or desires from his spawn self. There is no evidence to support the claim that Astarion is manipulating you or lying about his feelings to - what? Stay with you? Why would he? It is through this very conversation that he allows you to decide for yourself what you want to happen next, so trying to claim he's manipulating or lying to you here is shallow.
And at this point, people will bring up the wisdom check. Look, I have no idea why this check means that Astarion couldn't possibly love you or respect you. In fact, I argue that it's much the opposite: he respects the player so much that he thinks that they're degrading themselves to be with him. He thinks so little of himself that you are lowering your standards, lowering yourself, to be with him:
He will always see you as degrading yourself if you continue to be with him. But perhaps you wish to degrade yourself. And he knows it.
Your choice to become his consort is beneath you - not beneath him. Your wanting to remain at his side is not what you deserve because he thinks you deserve better: but he knows, at this point, that it's what you want anyway.
Dominant/submissive Undertones
"On your knees, darling." A lot of people feel uncomfortable with the new dynamic created when Astarion ascends. His relationship with the player is significantly more defined than it ever is when he's a spawn. This is true throughout a spawn playthrough, as well: it is only at the very end of the game, in the epilogue scene, that spawn Astarion confirms your relationship as fully established. Whereas with ascended Astarion, he considers you his established partner now - his eternal lover and consort.
The Dominant/submissive undertones created by the master/spawn dynamic makes some people argue that ascended Astarion is abusive, for some reason. But - no, it's not. Just - understand that actual abuse is a sensitive topic wherein claiming Astarion's dominant aspects are abusive is actually offensive to both people in D/s (Dominant/submissive) relationships and to survivors of real abuse.
But a few things:
Astarion is evil. Astarion is always evil. Astarion is chaotic evil as a spawn and more lawfully evil ascended. He is cruel with his words, has a twisted sense of pleasure and pain, acts selfishly and relishes in having power. He "has a casual relationship with murder," genuinely dislikes children/the weak, and legitimately does not care about most people. Ultimately, Astarion craves for control - over himself, over his life, and over others. But as Astarion learns in his own story arc: being evil does not mean he cannot love. These things do co-exist, and you are the exception. Your friends are like salads (side-dishes, add-ons, auxiliaries... they don't really count as much as the main course). So yes: he can be mean and he can be cruel - because he is, from the start, fairly evil. But since that's true for both spawn and ascended versions of him, this doesn't matter. You must accept this as part of his character; if you don't, that's on you, not the text.
Being dominant is not fundamentally abusive. There are countless real life examples of D/s relationships which are based on love and respect. These relationships are just as real and just as valid as any other kind of relationship. They are not based on abuse and should not be seen as such.
This relationship, as degrading and submissive as it is, is still based completely on consent. Astarion never forces you into your agreement, whereas he does thank you for it twice: "You have given me everything. Thank you." and "Gods, you're beautiful. And you will be beautiful forever. Thank you, for trusting me." Many people will see the subsequent inability to break up with him as abusive, but I must insist: he is very clear that this pact is eternal. That this is forever. If you break the consent of forever, then that's you being cruel again - not him.
On Possession
Another line he says in this post-breakup scene is this:
"And if we were beholden to each other? Well, how is that too different from being enslaved?"
In my opinion, this line is much more significant than the previous. It speaks to Astarion's tenuous grasp of relationships in general, but also how he views both himself and you when partnered.
Importantly:
"beholden to each other" is not "my ownership of you"
From the beginning of the game, he's using you and he's expecting you to use him. For Astarion, every relationship in his life has thus far been transactional. Every relationship except yours, which is the only one he wants to be real.
If the player breaks up with Astarion, the reality of this relationship is broken. He reflects on it once again as being transactional. He is no longer attached to you romantically, and so he strikes a business deal with you instead.
This devolution of Astarion's understanding of relationships does not happen if you choose to stay with him. He doesn't think of your relationship as transactional at all - in fact, he shows trust, devotion and reciprocation of possession and affection. He considers the relationship to be established and the most authentic one he's ever had.
Ascended Astarion considers his consort his "right hand," "by his side," -- these are just different, fancy ways of saying that you are his equal without saying it outright. He is as beholden to you as you are to him.
Astarion may be more open about his possessive tendencies toward his partner - but saying "my treasure," "my beloved spawn," or any other endearment with the possessive "mine" at the start of it isn't nearly so damaging as some people are claiming it to be. Spawn Astarion's "my love" is really no different. That Astarion is open and vulnerable with these endearments is just showcasing his trust in your shared devotion to each other. Think of it this way: you could very well be calling him something similar right back.
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If you have not actually played an ascended playthrough - or, heck, if you haven't played the game at all and are making loud opinions about Ascended Astarion as a lying liar incapable of love or of Spawn Astarion being the better choice -- maybe stop. Maybe just enjoy what you like and let others enjoy what they like. Maybe practice some media literacy and note that Astarion is Astarion is Astarion - he's the same character, both beloved and hated by many, with virtues and vices that are compelling and flawed.
The writers have created a rich story. Understand that the story being told is the one being chosen by the player - whichever direction they choose to take it.