Bonhoeffer, Writing In Weimar Germany, Talks About How One Can Live A Comfortable, Secular, Bourgeoisie

Bonhoeffer, writing in Weimar Germany, talks about how one can live a comfortable, secular, Bourgeoisie life whilst still being respectable and 'Christian'!

Not so anymore! There is much secularism must answer for, but I will say this in its defence - it will eradicate the normal, respectable, dead Christian. "Churchianity", cultural Christianity, and nominalism are all dying rapid deaths amidst secularisms' derision, lies, mockery, and cultural persecution.

More and more these days, if someone tells you openly they are a Christian they bloody well mean it.

Praise God!

Continuing on from my reply:

Hi there. Thanks so much for these genuine questions. You are so right to ask, and I have so much genuine sympathy for your position. I get the sense your heart is in the right place, and you really want answers. Take comfort, you will find them if you keep looking genuinely for God. That's the first thing I want to say. "For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened." Matthew 7:8

Also: "Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, For they shall be filled." Matthew 5:6

The Bible encourages us to ask questions and seek truth earnestly. How else can we come to know Jesus/God, who, after all, is THE truth, the way, and the life :)

I'll just respond to your questions as best I can in order. I'm not God or even a pastor but I've certainly read the Bible and love it endlessly. I am just a man. I will be wrong in parts. But I'll do my best, and I encourage you to search and search and search. Find others who love the Bible and can give you thoughtful, Biblical answers to your questions.

Most of all, take up and read. You'd be surprised how often the bible answers it's own questions! (In fact, I'll be using it often in this post!)

What do you feel you gain from reading it?

For my own personal experience, it provides intense encouragement daily. I read a chapter a day, many of my friends do more. And I can't emphasises enough how much a difference it makes to your day, to focus your mind on God and refresh your soul. The bible says that Jesus is 'The Word', as in, Jesus/God actually lives in the Bible, to the point where they are synonymous. It is one of the names of God. Whilst reading, (especially if you accompany it with heartfelt prayer) you can expect to encounter God. You are literally reading the words of the God of the universe!

I notice the effect on my day if I don't read. My friend described it this way: It's like taking your inhaler while you weren't especially struggling to breath, and only then realising how much easier breathing should be. It is life giving. As you've pointed out though, this has not been your experience. That too is to be expected. Excuse the long passage but I think this excerpt from Pauls letter is relevant:

"Even if I caused you sorrow by my letter, I do not regret it. Though I did regret it—I see that my letter hurt you, but only for a little while— yet now I am happy, not because you were made sorry, but because your sorrow led you to repentance. For you became sorrowful as God intended and so were not harmed in any way by us. Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death. See what this godly sorrow has produced in you: what earnestness, what eagerness to clear yourselves, what indignation, what alarm, what longing, what concern, what readiness to see justice done. At every point you have proved yourselves to be innocent in this matter. So even though I wrote to you, it was neither on account of the one who did the wrong nor on account of the injured party, but rather that before God you could see for yourselves how devoted to us you are. By all this we are encouraged." 2 Corinthians 7:8-13

For context, Paul's first letter to the Corinthians (also in the Bible btw) had been strongly condemning some of their practices, hence in this second letter Paul explains himself.

The bible does in part aim to point out mans wrongdoing and sinful state. But without this, it's very hard to see why any of God's actions make sense.

The Bible tells us of our sinful state. It is a message of reality, of not covering up the ugliness of the world and the ugliness of humanity, but also of a way out, of the silver lining. As the verse above points out, the discomfort the bible gives you currently is to make you alert. It is discomforting like a fire alarm, like a tornado siren.

So you're kind of right! Right? The bible says me, you, everyone is a sinner in all kinds of ways and that we will face judgement! We are literally being judged. Credit to you! You're reading the Bible correctly! You should feel judged! (By God that is, and NOT by Christians or other people "So then, each of us will give an account of ourselves to God. Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister." Romans 14:12-13). But yeah sorrow is the appropriate response!

This is necessary! God cannot save you from a fire you don't believe in.

But please please hear me this is not the same as hating yourself! Whilst reading you can feel conviction or condemnation. I think much of what you're feeling right now might be condemnation. It is a subtle but massively important distinction.

Condemnation is the 'worldly sorrow' talked about above: A wallowing, that feeling which creeps in and tells you you are worthless and God hates you. It comes from the enemy, actually. Satan is referred to as 'the accuser' throughout the Bible. Satan wants you to read the Bible and despair, to say "God doesn't love me and never will", "this can never be fixed", "God hates me" etc etc. This happens to Christians also, as Satan will try and convince us that God cannot accept us, or we've finally done something too bad for even God to forgive etc.

But that is not the aim of the Bible. In fact, the above are lies. The Bible tells us that Satan is the author of lies, "When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies." John 8:44.

Instead, that sorrow, that discomfort you feel, should lead to action! It should not stop there! "For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him." John 3:17 This is it my friend. When you feel convicted about something, try to respond "ah, I now realise what I've been doing wrong. Let me fix that real quick". You can just apologise to God there and then! There's no cleansing ritual. "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness" 1 John 1:8-9. It's as easy as that. He's literally always there for you! If you read something that convicts you, that shows you your own wrongdoing, repent. Then know you are forgiven.

Today I was brought to tears reading through proverbs. being reminded of ways I've been foolish and instructed on how to live a more upright and wise life. But remember, "Faithful are the wounds of a friend [who corrects out of love and concern]" Proverbs 27:6

There's so much more I could say, but that's the jist of it. I hope this helps. It's good you feel discomfort and conviction as you read, but you musn't hate yourself. Turn and repent, but do not be overcome with despair. God loves you so much; I hope you believe me one day.

2. I'm not sure the resurrection happened

It's completely valid of you to doubt the veracity of all the Biblical events. For many of them, it's not the end of the world if it is an exaggeration, or poetic licence etc. (Though, that said, you'd be surprised how well the Bible stacks up historically. For example every place name in there has been verified, including ones where the bible was the only place they were recorded like Nineveh and Jericho which were previously assumed to be fictional.)

But that said, as events in the bible with historical backing go, the death and resurrection of Christ is the BEST one easily.

It's embarrassing actually. Atheists who study this stuff have to say things like 'maybe he had a twin and they switched with nobody noticing'.

Here's one (of many) lines of evidence that's quick to show. Basically every modern biblical scholar, theist and atheist alike, agrees on these five facts:

Jesus was crucified

Women Found the Tomb Empty

There were independent appearances of Jesus after his death

The apostles maintained that Jesus did in fact rise again, even after torture and execution in all cases

Enemies of Christ were converted as a result of these events

It's really hard to deny the resurrection after this. A friend of mine actually resorted to saying something like 'maybe Jesus had access to unknown technology that he used to heal himself'. Some people appeal to aliens! You have to get really creative to seriously deny that Jesus rose from the dead.

Anyway, I could go on all day about this. One last thing though..

The documentation we have for Christ's resurrection is appallingly good. The first source documenting it is written 15 years after it happened. the rest all are written within the century, and they all agree on the main facts of the event with minimal if any variance. For a historical event, especially the death of just one man, this is very very good. There are entire wars for which we only get one stone tablet, written centuries after the fact.

All that to say though. The resurrection of Christ happened. The God of the universe died for you specifically.

3. I'm not sure God is loving

A valid, thoughtful few paragraphs from you here and it deserves a long thoughtful response. Sorry, this ended up being a bit of an essay, so I've felt I should put in sub-headings. I hope this helps

Intro

I hope I'm right in saying that's a fair portrayal of the rest of your concern? 'they give you some happiness but this is so heavily outweighed by suffering.' seems to sum it up really well. Essentially, how is any of this fair?

Firstly I'll just start by saying I don't pretend to know what you've been through. And I don't doubt you and those you love have faced incredible hardship in this life. I don't seek to trivialise or minimize it.

The Story

The way to understand hardship in this life is that it is evil and wrong and repugnant, but it is temporary. This world is fallen, but things will not always be like this. The Bible teaches that when Christ returns "God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away." Revelation 21:4

Basically, things will be so good in the new creation, that the suffering endured now will be worth it in the end.

A way to help see this is to think of the overall story of the world from the Biblical perspective. Starting at the very start of the book in Genesis, God creates a world and "it was very good" Genesis 1:31.

Humanity sins, and so God's judgement on this earth is to make it imperfect, causing the natural evil we see in the world today.

But God is just and merciful, and wants to restore humanity to the "very good" state. Hence, the need for Jesus' sacrifice. God's wrath is exacted upon Him.

Then, God can (and will) restore those of us who are willing to enjoy paradise with Him forever.

Q&A

Is it worth it? Yes: "For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us."

Think about it. The God of the universe will make everyone who wishes to join him as infinitely blissful as He can for as long as He can (forever). It will be worth it.

But couldn't God just leave evil unpunished? Not really. God's wrath is a perfection for which He should be adored. It is right to punish evil. God would not be all good if He was not all just.

But more than that, it's kind of mechanically impossible. Fun fact, most theologians would agree that God can't create a box He cant lift. He also couldn't, for example, create a person who exists and doesn't exist in the same sense at the same time. Things that are logically impossible or self-contradictory are beyond even God's remit.

Hence why, God can't make a person evil and happy, or flawed and righteous, at the same time in the same sense. People are either perfect or not (mostly not). And if you're imperfect, you are incapable of being perfectly blissful. If I am wrathful, deceitful, envious, slanderous, malicious, etc etc, I simply mechanically cannot also be perfectly happy! Now, God could stop me doing all those things, but not without removing my free will. Because, again, God cannot make a person who is a free agent and also compelled to do good things! Logically impossible things are off the table, even for God.

Sorry I know you already understand some of this but just felt it's worth laying out again, hopefully this clarifies it a bit.

But yeah, this is why in Ezekiel it says "As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways! Why will you die?" Ezekiel 33:11

God is desperate for as many as possible to turn to Him, but He will not make you, and He cannot and should not ignore evil. This is why us Christians are told "Be merciful to those who doubt; save others by snatching them from the fire". Jude 1:23 There's that fire alarm analogy again.

Can't he just skip to heaven and forget this whole earth bit?

Kind of? He made the world very good remember? But to do so He would have to either make people without free will, or with free will. We're currently living out the consequences of the 'make people with free will' route.

He could also make a world with no free-will beings, and actually you've said you'd prefer that. Listen, I get it. I've felt the same thing at times. But you have to understand that it's not that you wouldn't be you if this route was taken, it's that you wouldn't be. A robot is an apt analogy. In this situation, frankly nothing else in the universe matters. What's the point of making a beautiful universe if it's forever empty, forever unobserved, unenjoyed?

So the choice is between a world with evil, or really no world at all. And, God who knows all things tells us that it will be worth it. Despite everything wrong with this world, "We have this hope as an anchor for the soul, firm and secure."

Isn't hell disproportionate?

Sorry I know you didn't really ask about this, but it's worth mentioning here as it helps with the broader question of "is God loving?"

The modern conception of hell is a bit overdone. This is a really good video which clarifies what the Biblical position on it is:

Mike Winger on Hell

Mike, btw, does great videos about a lot of valid questions people like yourself have, chances are if you have a question about the bible he's made a video about it or something similar. I'm not sponsored but do check out his website if you like lol.

Anyway I think the most important point from that video is that hell is proportionate. It's not the same for everyone, and it considers factors like how much you knew in this life and the efforts you made etc, as we can see from Jesus here: "For if the miracles that were performed in you [he's talking about a city] had been performed in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. But I tell you, it will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon on the day of judgment than for you."

God is reluctant to deal out judgement, and when He does, it is fair.

On the whole issue of God being like an abusive person, I understand the sentiment. If someone claims that I must love them or face punishment, that's just textbook abusive, right?

And make no mistake, loving God is commanded. “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'" Matthew 22

But that's only if a person said that to you. It's different when the God of the universe says it. Especially when that God is all loving, all good.

Again excuse the long passage but I think this is relevant:

"Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him. This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins. Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us." 1 John 4

Because God isn't just another person who you can love or not love, "God IS love". Do you see the issue? If you don't love love itself, how can you be loving towards others? If you don't love goodness, how can you be good? If you don't love truth, how can you be truthful?

Btw, I'm not saying that only Christians are loving. But that the more loving a person you are, the more godly you are. So that is why the command to love God isn't abusive. It is a command to be loving. Jesus is roughly saying "The most important Christian command is to be loving". Loving God is loving love itself. What could be more important?

God does not command us to love him like a domineering partner, God commands us to love Him because He is love, because it is objectively the best thing you can possibly do. And, once again, because God mechanically cannot avoid you being hurt if you don't.

The questions "why does God require love for me to be happy?" "Or why does evil lead to punishment?" Thus end up being rephrased like this:

"Why does love require love for me to be loving?" "Why does unhappiness lead to unhappiness"?

"The wicked draw their swords and bend their bows to kill the poor and helpless, to kill those who are honest. But their swords will stab their own hearts, and their bows will break." Proverbs 37.

To not love God is to not love goodness itself, and hence to love other, not good, things. As the above verse points out, evil has a way of punishing itself.

Keep reading my friend. I hope this is helpful, let me know if I can help any further though I doubt I can. The scriptures are also encouraging and uplifting, and honestly they encompass the full range of human emotions. You should read the psalms at some point! It is a book of poems written by a depressed king.

Also, you mentioned that you have concentration difficulty. In that case, I've found streetlights to be an amazing way to read. They've put most of the bible to music, and the tone of the chapter matches the tone of the music! Really helps me focus anyway. Just search 'streetlights bible' on spotify or youtube.

I'd recommend the gospels (matthew mark luke and john) to start off with. Jesus is the cornerstone of the faith so it makes sense to start there, we're not called 'Christ'ians for nothing :D

Then maybe some of the shorter epistles (letters written by Paul to early churches), they're quite digestible and clarify a lot of doctrine. Maybe Philippians or Colossians would be a good start.

I don't expect you to just accept this all straight away. That's fine. But would you consider praying something like "God if you're real and if you are actually loving I want to know you and be forgiven"? No harm in trying. God is there for you my friend.

Last of all, I want to re-emphasise that God does not want you to hate yourself. The second most important commandment, after loving God, is "‘You shall love your neighbour as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.” Mark 12:31. In the same way you love your family and friends, Jesus/God tells you to love yourself. I know it's not easy. But it is possible. Especially with God.

God bless my friend.

@ Christians out there... could you please tell me what you feel you gain by reading the Bible. it's a genuine question and i'm really not trying to be rude or anything :(

i want to read it in the hope of this helping me be "saved" but other than being very depressed/ having ocd/ having no energy/concentration/ being much closer to atheism than theism - i think reading the Bible makes me hate myself??

i understand the idea that Jesus died for our sins on the cross and that being a huge act of love, but i don't really see sufficient evidence that this actually happened, and i just don't think it makes sense that God gave us free will and allowed us to be sinful so such a sacrifice was necessary in the first place? i understand the argument that "without free will we are robots who can't love freely" but i genuinely would rather be a happy robot than a suffering, sinful person with free will

aside from the Resurrection - i just can't see anything that would suggest God loves us?? like i know there are good things in the world but i find it hard to be grateful for them when there is so much suffering.

the God in the Bible reminds me of an abuser in a relationship - you MUST love me or you'll be punished - but i find it hard to see what there is to love?? God always seems so angry and surely if someone loves you - they want you to be happy? but God seems to have no interest in helping me in any way, or letting me be happy. the Bible says God loves you a lot but it feels like empty words - the way an abuser tells you they love you and does nothing to show it - or they give you some happiness but this is so heavily outweighed by suffering.

and i never asked to be here. never asked to have this life without my consent

and the Bible is always emphasising how awful and sinful you are and it's like don't i already hate myself enough?? apparently not?? i'm already absolutely filled with shame and guilt and idk it just makes me hate myself so much

how does anyone read the Bible and feel loved? i really don't know what i'm missing

i like some of the messages Jesus teaches but i don't find the Bible comforting at all...it's just so many threats and the threats don't make me believe in or love God any more. it just scares me

think it's a deep consolation to know that spiders dream, that monkeys tease predators, that dolphins have accents, that lions can be scared silly by a lone mongoose, that otters hold hands, and ants bury their dead. that there isn't their life and our life. nor your life and my life. that it's just one teetering and endless thread and all of us, all of us, are entangled w it as deep as entanglement goes. v neat i think.

Jesus Christ is Lord

ok so basically u'know how superhero movies suck now? And also star wars? and a lot of the older franchises that they reboot?

I think, more than anything, its because that type of movie was for a very different culture - the world has changed in the last 30 years and superheros, or even heros in general, aren't relevant.

Our culture is all about deconstructing, taking off the rose-tinted goggles and being cycnical, skeptical, and pessimistic about the past present and future. We adore being angry. We don't really believe in good guys.

Those movies were for a time when someone could be a 'good guy' fighting 'bad guys'. Those labels are far too simplistic now - are the good guys really good? It feels wrong to suggest it - any kind of 'hero' who is genuinly good seems suspicious.

our culture loves stories of evil heroes, think the Boys, Acolyte, GoT, Succession. Rather than a good vs bad side, it's all a murky grey. moral relativism will do that for you

Recent stories that try to do the whole 'good vs bad' trope do it poorly and are poorly received, think newer star wars films, the latest marvel films. I think that when people who don't actually believe in 'good' try to make media like this, they really struggle.

Appalachian Orthodox Chant

Just a fascinating video description I found, written presumably by an American Orthodox Christian. Well worth the read:

"A snippet from "God Is With Us," an ancient Orthodox hymn based on the prophecy of Isaiah, chanted here in traditional Appalachian Bluegrass style. It's wonderful because it sounds ancient yet has an authentically Americana sound. Orthodoxy never subverts the cultures it comes across, but rather grafts the wholesome elements of those cultures onto Holy Tradition to give glory to God. In an age where Protestant and Catholic churches in America are hemorrhaging people, Orthodoxy is slowly growing, and this particular hymn provides a hopeful glimpse at what genuine American Orthodoxy could be. This actually makes me feel really patriotic. America has a great sin; a kind of prelest born out of its rejection of monarchy. The forefathers had their reasons and their good intentions for rejecting it, but they had an ignorance of the Orthodox understanding of the symbolic need for a submission to monarchal hierarchy, and the Protestant individualism that ensued has led to the present relativism, which could potentially be our demise. America stands in a quite ambiguous place. But God, who mercifully "desireth not that the sinner should die, but turn from his wicked ways and live," sees our good intentions and knows that America, despite our long-foolhardy ignorance of the Orthodox way, has always called upon the name of Jesus Christ. And maybe, for that, He could forgive us."

Here's the video if ur interested:

I particularly love the respect and love for good parts of American culture (which absolutely do exist), and the hope embodied in the overall message. I'm not orthodox and certainly no monarchist, but I think anyone can see that rampant individualism has made us angry, divided, and lost people. I hope you can take something away from it even if you don't agree with it all. Some beautiful and relevant prose there. Despite everything, God is truly with us. He is slow to anger and rich in love.