Oh My Gosh, You're Right! Claude's Support With Flayn Takes A Turn For The Worst When You Remember The

Oh my gosh, you're right! Claude's support with Flayn takes a turn for the worst when you remember the infodump at the end of Verdant Wind. Claude learns the real scope of Flayn's secrecy, and not once does he realize the immense danger he was putting her in by prying into her business. But then again, Claude himself should have known better than to try and pry into someone's business like that in the first place. He himself has a secret that can be a thread to his life if found out, surely he should understand that maybe Flayn herself is in a position like that, but he still insists on getting it out of her.

Really, for as much of a jerk as Balthus can be for blackmailing Claude with outing him, I can't help but side with Balthus just the tiniest bit for giving Claude a taste of his own medicine. Claude himself basically outed Flayn and the other two Nabateans at the end of Verdant Wind.

But I guess it shouldn't be too surprising that Claude let his curiosity turn him into a hypocrite, he already let it turn him into a jerk. His response to Byleth mourning for her dad is easily the worst of the three, even worse than Edelgard's.

"You may as well give me your dead father's diary nicely, otherwise I will just steal it. You crying or sum'? Use your sleeve to wipe out the tears, I don't know."

Claude really was an asshole, wasn't him.

Side Note: He congratulates Petra for thanking the spirits for proving for them, but mocks Leonie for thanking the goddess for providing for them. His bigotry against Fodlan is really showing. He truly is an almyran.

@pandp-author replied to your post “Just thinking about it but - UO : MC learns the...”:

@themoomoorn If it's not too much asking, what is it about Petra's support with Claude that you don't like? I'm rather curious.

​If I can jump in, for me it'd be this :

Petra : Harming Trees is bad because they have spirits and it's important, the tree gives us food and shelter but it also needs us. We live in harmony, all those things.

Clout : Ah yes, you're close to the nature, unlike those stupid Fodlan people who believe everything comes from their goddess and forgot nature.

Petra : Remember when I said Billy-sensei turning green looks like the spirits I am often talking about? And how the Fodlan Goddess basically made and created those spirits? - Who am I kidding, I can't tell you this, we're in a Fodlan game, you must always have a point and Church BaD.

Clout : Of course!

Clout : I mean, imagine if the Hresvelgs could trace their lineage to Saint Seiros herself, who is said to be, in her own scriptures, a Child of the Goddess aka not a human herself or at least a divine being. I'd look like an imbecile, right?

Also fun how "uwu nobility isn't a matter of birthright, status doesn't matter uwu" when the same guy tells to Cyril :

"nobility doesn't matter we're all equals uwu except when I could use my status to compel a random to do things he doesn't want to".

But back to the Petra support :

Clout : I've heard Hanneman say the same thing to Doro.

Petra : Wow you're so strange for saying those things! And you are a noble who can climb to trees! So weird!

Clout : Are we sure Caspar can't do the same? He knows how to pummel someone to death with his fists, maybe he'd also know how to climb trees or something, given how he didn't receive any education befitting a heir of a house, since his brother is the heir and he is naught but a spare. But hey, I'll totally call you strange because you are a princess of Brigid, nevermind the link I cannot tell you about between you being the princess of a foreign land and me.

Petra : But you know how to climb trees and take care of your equipment ! I'm so impressed, I've never seen any noble take care of his own stuff before. What is that? Ferdie oils his own weapons and armor? Who is that Ferdie you're talking about?

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Granted, given how Petra was trashtalked by Hubert (or trash thought) when he first met her and was around the most, uh, decadent part of Adrestian Nobility, I can't fault her for thinking Claude climbing to trees and tending to his own bow is extraordinary - but I suppose if she ever went to see any BL what she finds "abornmal in Fodlan and totes only Adrestia because that's the only place she visited" wouldn't be so... abnormal.

Only related to a post I saw but it IS wild that

Things that Dimitri Fire Emblem can rightfully be criticized for:

Using excessive violence against his enemies

Dedicating a massive amount of his life to revenge

Actively seeking death when he’s made promises he needs to be alive to keep

Leading people who loved and were loyal to him on what is essentially a suicide mission

Being a dick to people trying to help him

(All of which are acknowledged by the story and he changes)

Things Dimitri gets criticized for:

Defending his home country against imperialism

Some bullshit “status quo” argument

Being mentally ill

Not only do people not want to acknowledge that Byleth is part Nabatean, not only do they think Byleth losing the stone that gave her life (as Byleth was stillborn) a good thing, but they actively act as though Byleth's nabatean heritage is a curse placed upon her by the evil Rhea.

There is this rather disgusting fanfic called A vow Remembered that is basically a Rhea hit piece. Later in the story, Byleth starts to develop draconic features that the story makes sure to point to Rhea as the culprit, having Byleth despairing over this body horror transformation, which is easy to interpretate as Byleth rejecting her nabatean heritage, even though that's her heritage.

The fic in general completely buys into Rhea being a villain and the church having hard power over Fodlan, neither of which is true to the game. The only thing missing is constants fanning over Edelgard because the fic is a Golden Deer route one. But don't you worry, there is some fanning over Edelgard, she's treated much more charitable than Rhea in any case. The fic isn't kind to Dimitri either. And Raphael, a core member of the deer, is sidelined to hell, too.

I just want to point this out.

In this year's Rider series the MC Shouma is half-granute, his father being an alien from another dimension and his mother being a human. The villains are Shouma's half-siblings, pure-blooded granutes who look down on humanity as nothing more than ingredients. They killed Shouma's mother out of this racism when their father died, using her to make dark treats, and even tried to do that to Shouma who was only saved because he was part granute. As such, he now fights to protect humans from his siblings and the junkies sent after him.

The reason why I bring this up is how people act that Byleth being part Nabatean is a flaw, and that them becoming entirely "human" is a good thing as they kill other Nabateans. People even act as though Byleth ISN'T a Nabatean, with them losing their power at the end just them returning to being "normal." Normal means rejecting the idea of coexistence, treating the other race as something to be disposed of simply because they are not the same.

It's a villain trope, one Houses inverts by making it so that the villains are actually all humans. Hell, that last one is pretty big considering how many games end with dragons, demon kings, Gods of Law, etc. Humans are the cause of suffering, the non-humans are just scapegoats for their shitty actions. Kinda sounds like something out of The Witcher novels really.

So, I said I was going to talk about this and here I am. Edelgard's death scenes, Japanese vs English script. First off, let us remember the translation we were given. Quote:

“It looks as though... my path...will end here. My teacher... claim your victory. Strike me down. You must! Even now... across this land, people are killing each other. If you do not act now, this conflict will go on forever. Your path... lies across my grave. It is time for you to find the courage to walk it. If I must fall... let it be by your hand. I wanted... to walk with you...”

Now the Japanese, using Wordvice as my translator.

“My path is... Is it going to end here...? Master... The duty of the victor... Defeat me, Master...! Even now... Many people are still fighting and killing each other in various places... Unless you defeat me, the battle... will not end... Your... Your path... Can only be found beyond my corpse... So, at the very least... With your own hands...! Together, we will... Walk, and...”

First of all, Edelgard is surprised she lost in the Japanese text. She expected that she would win.

Secondly, she uses the same duty of the victor line we see in Hubert's letter, which combined with her telling Byleth to kill her. The word she uses for defeating her, I've had other translators say it was her telling Byleth to avenge her. If we take “duty of the victor,” which will be soon used for taking down TWSITD and later Byleth taking ruling over Fodlan in order to prevent it's collapse, it ties her words together more. Killing Edelgard and going on to defeat TWSITD and then being crown ruler is Byleth's path, and unless Byleth goes down this path Fodlan will never know peace. If Edelgard lives, she'll try this again. If TWSITD get away, they'll try it again. And if Byleth doesn't accept the crown, then Fodlan will fall into chaos causing the people to suffer.

Then there's the last line, Edelgard will let herself be killed by Byleth and this will be them walking the same path together. Edelgard accepts that her death will help Byleth end the suffering that's happening, and with this they'll work towards the same goal. This is not her expressing sadness Byleth didn't support her or how she can't join Byleth.

I mean, she could still try to side with Byleth, live and make amends, but as she's saying this all she's activating her weapon. It would tie into her not having the self-control needed to accept her loss and live, and how she'd keep going until she either dies or wins.

But what gets me is that this same scene happens in Wind, not just Snow. Is it just a lazy reusing of the scene? Maybe, I feel it could also be calling out the similarities between those routes. The Alliance is the underdog in the war, to the point that Claude points out that the Empire would not accept losing to them, foreshadowing the loyalist movement mentioned in the route's endings. Byleth's conversation with Claude about not wanting to kill Edelgard the same as the one with Seteth, putting the onus on Edelgard whether they will walk a path together or not.

Edelgard does not in the Japanese version, though chooses to die.

It would set up a contrast between Claude and Edelgard as well. Claude's first impressions of the Church weren't good, and he wouldn't fight alongside them in Snow leading to his defeat. In Wind, Claude goes against his instincts and works with them instead, putting the trust in them that Edelgard says she never could with Rhea in the Japanese text. It marks Claude walking the path of enlightenment himself alongside Byleth, while Edelgard walks the path of the animal (with Claude joining her in Hopes). It sets up that Claude and Edelgard's beliefs, their ideals, are different as well much like how Edelgard pointed out in the Japanese version.

But I think that's the core of why this scene happens, Edelgard's ideals. Edelgard believes that relying on others teaches people to be weak, and the Church is bad because it's beliefs encourage people to not rely on themselves and even does charity. Edelgard did what she did, and helped TWSITD, because she believed that doing so would give her the strength needed to change Fodlan into what she believed it should be. The Japanese theme, that plays it's full version at the end of every route bar Flower, does mention she hesitated to go through with the war, due to her time at Garreg Mach regardless of route by implication, before finally deciding to do so. Yet despite all the horrible things Edelgard has done for the power she's accumulated, Edelgard is defeated either by the Church itself, with no real army except for those who supported them, or the Church aligned with the weakest army.

The meek shall inherit the Earth perhaps?

She was forced in that moment, facing a loss she can't believe is happening, to see that everything she has done up until this point has been for nothing. Her ideals fucking lost to the beliefs she damned.

In contrast, look at Moon. Dimitri was able to take back the Kingdom territory she had conquered, force her army out of the Alliance while at the same time killing her ally. And as the territory Dimitri controlled increased, so too did the size of his army whereas Edelgard's army was exhausted following Gronder. Edelgard is now facing half of Fodlan's might on her own while her own forces are diminishing.

So, she throws away her humanity in exchange for power, becoming the Hegemon Husk. And with that Edelgard loses what self-control she had. Dimitri offers her his hand, she instead tries to kill him. No accepting of her death, no duty of the victor, no joining hands to walk the same path. Just her wordlessly making one last attempt to win. The end, as Dimitri puts it, of Edelgard's path sees her come a beast. Hell, the Japanese name for Hegemon Husk is Hegemony Corpse Emperor, making it seem that who Edelgard was is now dead (just like her being brainwashed in Hopes when it shows up now that I think about it).

(I love how France puts it, Shadow of the Conqueror).

In the animal realm, the weak fear the strong who prey upon them. Edelgard was afraid at the end of Moon, plain and simple, and that fear stole away the last of her humanity.

Even with the parley, she says she showed because of a whim. She did it on an impulse, and it's clear from it that she really hasn't thought through her ideals at all. She'll blame the weak if her ideals don't work, and she has no idea what shape her reforms will take. All she's focusing on is increasing her own power, so that she may become strong herself. It's why she's pleased when Dimitri calls her such, acknowledging her strength. Edelgard doesn't think things through, much like what happened with hiring Kostas. Meanwhile, it's Dimitri who points out the flaws in her ideals as well as what Hopes!Claude plans to do. And it's Dimitri who cares about the sacrifices she is making, whereas all Edelgard cares about is her goal.

Dimitri's humanity is what turned him into the boar tearing enemies apart, but when he's freed of his misconceptions about his duties as a leader it leads to him being the savior king. Meanwhile, this route sees Edelgard lose hers making it so that she can't have the last minute realization and acceptance Snow and Wind afforded her. No redemption for Edelgard in Moon.

Meanwhile, Flower encourages her to keep doing what she's been doing because it fucking works. This is where the translation changed things, making it so the player could redeem Edelgard here rather than in Snow or Wind. To have her change her ideals somewhat, while toning down her manipulating her allies. It gives her no reason to change, so she does not and will go on to implement her ideals even if she had the appearance of growing out of them.

Edelgard.

Edelgard is what the fuck is wrong with this fandom.

They have to bend over backwards to defend her even though there is no defending her, than they're more than eager to drag everyone, especially Rhea, through the mud in order to prop up Edelgard. They have to come up with this asinine takes of Dimitri being the real racist when actively wants to help Duscur, more so than Edelgard cares about Brigid beyond using Petra as a bargaining chip to keep them in line and possibly force them to fight her war. Or Rhea brainwashing Cyril into hating his shitty homeland, even though he hated it long before he came (was thrown to) Fodlan, and even then he didn't like Fodlan right away because these pink haired fucks enslaved him. Or how Nabateans being genocided was totally deserve so that the Slitherers don't look so bad and therefore Edelgard doesn't look so bad for siding with them.

Edelgard von Hresvelg is the worst thing to happen to this fandom, to this game, and to this series.

If you look at what happened at Duscur, like really look at it, the whole thing really undercuts Edelgard's narrative.

"But Edelgard says Duscur had nothing to do with her."

This is what she says in the Japanese.

"What's the use of repeating the same words over and over again? Shut up and fight, you petulant little buggers."

She's basically telling Dimitri to stop bringing it up all the time. And the whole scene in Azure Moon isn't that Edelgard didn't cause it, but rather there may have been a mastermind connected to the Empire and the likes of Kronya and Solon. The game is implying that Edelgard was manipulated, but at the same time she's turned a blind eye to those she's trampled in pursuit of her goals while the prisoner is about how people can commit atrocitious acts and STILL believe they are in the right.

Hell, the reason why the Western Kingdom nobles assassinated Lambert undermines Edelgard's claims that if she didn't act the world would claim more victims as it wouldn't change. Here we have attempts at reform snuffed out not by the Church but by the nobility. Nobility that then turn around and side with Edelgard during the war with Hopes explaining that Edelgard will protect their positions by them doing so rather that pushing through reforms that elevate the commoners.

But then again, Edelgard's reforms are about her using her power to force her beliefs on others.

But then you look at those Western lords. Kleiman was made a viscount for the subjugation of Duscur, given the former nation as his personal territory by Rufus. Hard not to compare this to Edelgard promising Caspapa control of the former Alliance territory in exchange for his support during the war, no? But Kleiman was in on the conspiracy to kill Lambert, he knew the truth, but instead massacred innocent people for his own benefit and was given a title for it. Lonato was given a title by Rufus in exchange for his service, and the game makes it clear that him taking his people to attack Rhea while attacking villages along the way is a sign he wasn't fit for the role. Even Rufus, who had a title despite not having a Crest, simply wanted more power when he had his brother killed.

They did horrible things, causing innocents to suffer, just for power.

"But Lambert was made a king because of magical dragon blood when Rufus was the oldest son, he should have been king if it wasn't for Crests."

Rufus was still a duke, had his own territory, and simply wanted more power. When he got that power, he ran the kingdom into the ground and tried to have his nephew assassinated multiple times. Same thing with Miklan, who only got kicked out of his family over multiple attempts to kill Sylvain, not because he didn't have a Crest. And if anything, Rufus shows how dangerous a meritocracy can be because it all depends on who is giving out lands and titles. A shit leader appoints shitty officials. Hell, in Romance of the Three Kingdoms Cao Cao hands out titles and stuff all the time when people please him (and when they piss him off, he has to be convinced not to have them killed), and all he did was create a system where ambitious people backstabbed each other for power. Just like what we see with the Western nobles.

Meanwhile, the people of Duscur were falsely acccused, slaughtered like animals, the survivors oppressed and made out to be the real villains by those who actually were responsible for the chaos that ensued and profitted off of it by putting themselves in charge. Really hard not to see Rhea and Dedue bonding after the war over experiencing the same bullshit.

But people try to make it sound like the Nabatean genocide was okay, and that Dimitri is the real racist despite trying to get justice for Duscur and that Dedue should totally join the person who knows the truth about the Tragedy but keeps her mouth shut in order to further her own goals. Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with this fandom?

I think it started off as a misconception because, as far as I know, Dimitri's first support is also locked after a certain chapter, though I don't remember when.

And then it turned into Claude's support not only being locked after moment like the other two lords, but also locked specifically after Byleth gets the SotC, just like Edelgard. This way, people would say that Edelgard wasn't trying to manipulate Byleth by opening up to her only after she showed she can be useful, because "Claude does it too", so either Edelgard isn't manipulating her or they're both manipulating her.

You know lowykey I always wondered who first said that Claude's C support only opens after Byleth gets the Sword of the Creator since like. That's not true. Like not only is that not true Claude is quite literally the only one of the three lords to NOT have his C support locked behind a chapter. You can get it immediately so like. wuh happened