Up and coming artist and author. Future author of Symbiosis, seasons. To create list: Symbiosis, Seasons. Apollo Knights, Highschool Sweethearts, Deathbound & Regno de Sole.
154 posts
Pandp-author - Pandp's Drawings And Writing. - Tumblr Blog
I think it started off as a misconception because, as far as I know, Dimitri's first support is also locked after a certain chapter, though I don't remember when.
And then it turned into Claude's support not only being locked after moment like the other two lords, but also locked specifically after Byleth gets the SotC, just like Edelgard. This way, people would say that Edelgard wasn't trying to manipulate Byleth by opening up to her only after she showed she can be useful, because "Claude does it too", so either Edelgard isn't manipulating her or they're both manipulating her.
You know lowykey I always wondered who first said that Claude's C support only opens after Byleth gets the Sword of the Creator since like. That's not true. Like not only is that not true Claude is quite literally the only one of the three lords to NOT have his C support locked behind a chapter. You can get it immediately so like. wuh happened
my main ocs
So, I said I was going to talk about this and here I am. Edelgard's death scenes, Japanese vs English script. First off, let us remember the translation we were given. Quote:
“It looks as though... my path...will end here. My teacher... claim your victory. Strike me down. You must! Even now... across this land, people are killing each other. If you do not act now, this conflict will go on forever. Your path... lies across my grave. It is time for you to find the courage to walk it. If I must fall... let it be by your hand. I wanted... to walk with you...”
Now the Japanese, using Wordvice as my translator.
“My path is... Is it going to end here...? Master... The duty of the victor... Defeat me, Master...! Even now... Many people are still fighting and killing each other in various places... Unless you defeat me, the battle... will not end... Your... Your path... Can only be found beyond my corpse... So, at the very least... With your own hands...! Together, we will... Walk, and...”
First of all, Edelgard is surprised she lost in the Japanese text. She expected that she would win.
Secondly, she uses the same duty of the victor line we see in Hubert's letter, which combined with her telling Byleth to kill her. The word she uses for defeating her, I've had other translators say it was her telling Byleth to avenge her. If we take “duty of the victor,” which will be soon used for taking down TWSITD and later Byleth taking ruling over Fodlan in order to prevent it's collapse, it ties her words together more. Killing Edelgard and going on to defeat TWSITD and then being crown ruler is Byleth's path, and unless Byleth goes down this path Fodlan will never know peace. If Edelgard lives, she'll try this again. If TWSITD get away, they'll try it again. And if Byleth doesn't accept the crown, then Fodlan will fall into chaos causing the people to suffer.
Then there's the last line, Edelgard will let herself be killed by Byleth and this will be them walking the same path together. Edelgard accepts that her death will help Byleth end the suffering that's happening, and with this they'll work towards the same goal. This is not her expressing sadness Byleth didn't support her or how she can't join Byleth.
I mean, she could still try to side with Byleth, live and make amends, but as she's saying this all she's activating her weapon. It would tie into her not having the self-control needed to accept her loss and live, and how she'd keep going until she either dies or wins.
But what gets me is that this same scene happens in Wind, not just Snow. Is it just a lazy reusing of the scene? Maybe, I feel it could also be calling out the similarities between those routes. The Alliance is the underdog in the war, to the point that Claude points out that the Empire would not accept losing to them, foreshadowing the loyalist movement mentioned in the route's endings. Byleth's conversation with Claude about not wanting to kill Edelgard the same as the one with Seteth, putting the onus on Edelgard whether they will walk a path together or not.
Edelgard does not in the Japanese version, though chooses to die.
It would set up a contrast between Claude and Edelgard as well. Claude's first impressions of the Church weren't good, and he wouldn't fight alongside them in Snow leading to his defeat. In Wind, Claude goes against his instincts and works with them instead, putting the trust in them that Edelgard says she never could with Rhea in the Japanese text. It marks Claude walking the path of enlightenment himself alongside Byleth, while Edelgard walks the path of the animal (with Claude joining her in Hopes). It sets up that Claude and Edelgard's beliefs, their ideals, are different as well much like how Edelgard pointed out in the Japanese version.
But I think that's the core of why this scene happens, Edelgard's ideals. Edelgard believes that relying on others teaches people to be weak, and the Church is bad because it's beliefs encourage people to not rely on themselves and even does charity. Edelgard did what she did, and helped TWSITD, because she believed that doing so would give her the strength needed to change Fodlan into what she believed it should be. The Japanese theme, that plays it's full version at the end of every route bar Flower, does mention she hesitated to go through with the war, due to her time at Garreg Mach regardless of route by implication, before finally deciding to do so. Yet despite all the horrible things Edelgard has done for the power she's accumulated, Edelgard is defeated either by the Church itself, with no real army except for those who supported them, or the Church aligned with the weakest army.
The meek shall inherit the Earth perhaps?
She was forced in that moment, facing a loss she can't believe is happening, to see that everything she has done up until this point has been for nothing. Her ideals fucking lost to the beliefs she damned.
In contrast, look at Moon. Dimitri was able to take back the Kingdom territory she had conquered, force her army out of the Alliance while at the same time killing her ally. And as the territory Dimitri controlled increased, so too did the size of his army whereas Edelgard's army was exhausted following Gronder. Edelgard is now facing half of Fodlan's might on her own while her own forces are diminishing.
So, she throws away her humanity in exchange for power, becoming the Hegemon Husk. And with that Edelgard loses what self-control she had. Dimitri offers her his hand, she instead tries to kill him. No accepting of her death, no duty of the victor, no joining hands to walk the same path. Just her wordlessly making one last attempt to win. The end, as Dimitri puts it, of Edelgard's path sees her come a beast. Hell, the Japanese name for Hegemon Husk is Hegemony Corpse Emperor, making it seem that who Edelgard was is now dead (just like her being brainwashed in Hopes when it shows up now that I think about it).
(I love how France puts it, Shadow of the Conqueror).
In the animal realm, the weak fear the strong who prey upon them. Edelgard was afraid at the end of Moon, plain and simple, and that fear stole away the last of her humanity.
Even with the parley, she says she showed because of a whim. She did it on an impulse, and it's clear from it that she really hasn't thought through her ideals at all. She'll blame the weak if her ideals don't work, and she has no idea what shape her reforms will take. All she's focusing on is increasing her own power, so that she may become strong herself. It's why she's pleased when Dimitri calls her such, acknowledging her strength. Edelgard doesn't think things through, much like what happened with hiring Kostas. Meanwhile, it's Dimitri who points out the flaws in her ideals as well as what Hopes!Claude plans to do. And it's Dimitri who cares about the sacrifices she is making, whereas all Edelgard cares about is her goal.
Dimitri's humanity is what turned him into the boar tearing enemies apart, but when he's freed of his misconceptions about his duties as a leader it leads to him being the savior king. Meanwhile, this route sees Edelgard lose hers making it so that she can't have the last minute realization and acceptance Snow and Wind afforded her. No redemption for Edelgard in Moon.
Meanwhile, Flower encourages her to keep doing what she's been doing because it fucking works. This is where the translation changed things, making it so the player could redeem Edelgard here rather than in Snow or Wind. To have her change her ideals somewhat, while toning down her manipulating her allies. It gives her no reason to change, so she does not and will go on to implement her ideals even if she had the appearance of growing out of them.
So, I said I was going to talk about this and here I am. Edelgard's death scenes, Japanese vs English script. First off, let us remember the translation we were given. Quote:
“It looks as though... my path...will end here. My teacher... claim your victory. Strike me down. You must! Even now... across this land, people are killing each other. If you do not act now, this conflict will go on forever. Your path... lies across my grave. It is time for you to find the courage to walk it. If I must fall... let it be by your hand. I wanted... to walk with you...”
Now the Japanese, using Wordvice as my translator.
“My path is... Is it going to end here...? Master... The duty of the victor... Defeat me, Master...! Even now... Many people are still fighting and killing each other in various places... Unless you defeat me, the battle... will not end... Your... Your path... Can only be found beyond my corpse... So, at the very least... With your own hands...! Together, we will... Walk, and...”
First of all, Edelgard is surprised she lost in the Japanese text. She expected that she would win.
Secondly, she uses the same duty of the victor line we see in Hubert's letter, which combined with her telling Byleth to kill her. The word she uses for defeating her, I've had other translators say it was her telling Byleth to avenge her. If we take “duty of the victor,” which will be soon used for taking down TWSITD and later Byleth taking ruling over Fodlan in order to prevent it's collapse, it ties her words together more. Killing Edelgard and going on to defeat TWSITD and then being crown ruler is Byleth's path, and unless Byleth goes down this path Fodlan will never know peace. If Edelgard lives, she'll try this again. If TWSITD get away, they'll try it again. And if Byleth doesn't accept the crown, then Fodlan will fall into chaos causing the people to suffer.
Then there's the last line, Edelgard will let herself be killed by Byleth and this will be them walking the same path together. Edelgard accepts that her death will help Byleth end the suffering that's happening, and with this they'll work towards the same goal. This is not her expressing sadness Byleth didn't support her or how she can't join Byleth.
I mean, she could still try to side with Byleth, live and make amends, but as she's saying this all she's activating her weapon. It would tie into her not having the self-control needed to accept her loss and live, and how she'd keep going until she either dies or wins.
But what gets me is that this same scene happens in Wind, not just Snow. Is it just a lazy reusing of the scene? Maybe, I feel it could also be calling out the similarities between those routes. The Alliance is the underdog in the war, to the point that Claude points out that the Empire would not accept losing to them, foreshadowing the loyalist movement mentioned in the route's endings. Byleth's conversation with Claude about not wanting to kill Edelgard the same as the one with Seteth, putting the onus on Edelgard whether they will walk a path together or not.
Edelgard does not in the Japanese version, though chooses to die.
It would set up a contrast between Claude and Edelgard as well. Claude's first impressions of the Church weren't good, and he wouldn't fight alongside them in Snow leading to his defeat. In Wind, Claude goes against his instincts and works with them instead, putting the trust in them that Edelgard says she never could with Rhea in the Japanese text. It marks Claude walking the path of enlightenment himself alongside Byleth, while Edelgard walks the path of the animal (with Claude joining her in Hopes). It sets up that Claude and Edelgard's beliefs, their ideals, are different as well much like how Edelgard pointed out in the Japanese version.
But I think that's the core of why this scene happens, Edelgard's ideals. Edelgard believes that relying on others teaches people to be weak, and the Church is bad because it's beliefs encourage people to not rely on themselves and even does charity. Edelgard did what she did, and helped TWSITD, because she believed that doing so would give her the strength needed to change Fodlan into what she believed it should be. The Japanese theme, that plays it's full version at the end of every route bar Flower, does mention she hesitated to go through with the war, due to her time at Garreg Mach regardless of route by implication, before finally deciding to do so. Yet despite all the horrible things Edelgard has done for the power she's accumulated, Edelgard is defeated either by the Church itself, with no real army except for those who supported them, or the Church aligned with the weakest army.
The meek shall inherit the Earth perhaps?
She was forced in that moment, facing a loss she can't believe is happening, to see that everything she has done up until this point has been for nothing. Her ideals fucking lost to the beliefs she damned.
In contrast, look at Moon. Dimitri was able to take back the Kingdom territory she had conquered, force her army out of the Alliance while at the same time killing her ally. And as the territory Dimitri controlled increased, so too did the size of his army whereas Edelgard's army was exhausted following Gronder. Edelgard is now facing half of Fodlan's might on her own while her own forces are diminishing.
So, she throws away her humanity in exchange for power, becoming the Hegemon Husk. And with that Edelgard loses what self-control she had. Dimitri offers her his hand, she instead tries to kill him. No accepting of her death, no duty of the victor, no joining hands to walk the same path. Just her wordlessly making one last attempt to win. The end, as Dimitri puts it, of Edelgard's path sees her come a beast. Hell, the Japanese name for Hegemon Husk is Hegemony Corpse Emperor, making it seem that who Edelgard was is now dead (just like her being brainwashed in Hopes when it shows up now that I think about it).
(I love how France puts it, Shadow of the Conqueror).
In the animal realm, the weak fear the strong who prey upon them. Edelgard was afraid at the end of Moon, plain and simple, and that fear stole away the last of her humanity.
Even with the parley, she says she showed because of a whim. She did it on an impulse, and it's clear from it that she really hasn't thought through her ideals at all. She'll blame the weak if her ideals don't work, and she has no idea what shape her reforms will take. All she's focusing on is increasing her own power, so that she may become strong herself. It's why she's pleased when Dimitri calls her such, acknowledging her strength. Edelgard doesn't think things through, much like what happened with hiring Kostas. Meanwhile, it's Dimitri who points out the flaws in her ideals as well as what Hopes!Claude plans to do. And it's Dimitri who cares about the sacrifices she is making, whereas all Edelgard cares about is her goal.
Dimitri's humanity is what turned him into the boar tearing enemies apart, but when he's freed of his misconceptions about his duties as a leader it leads to him being the savior king. Meanwhile, this route sees Edelgard lose hers making it so that she can't have the last minute realization and acceptance Snow and Wind afforded her. No redemption for Edelgard in Moon.
Meanwhile, Flower encourages her to keep doing what she's been doing because it fucking works. This is where the translation changed things, making it so the player could redeem Edelgard here rather than in Snow or Wind. To have her change her ideals somewhat, while toning down her manipulating her allies. It gives her no reason to change, so she does not and will go on to implement her ideals even if she had the appearance of growing out of them.
That's the thing I think a lot of people miss, or intentionally leave out, when it comes to the outcome of the war of the Eagle and Lion. Rhea's interference was ultimately for the EMPIRE'S benefit.
Remember, Rhea only intervened in the aftermath, except she didn't intervene as much as she was brough along, and she only brough along after the to be kingdom WON. After Loog WON. When you take that into consideration, it would be more likely that Rhea tried to convince Loog into accepting his victory without asking or taking much more from the empire, because honestly, what was stopping Loog from keep going and rename the entirety of Fodlan into the kingdom of Faerghus? His sense of honor? Not that the empire would understand...
WHY Loog needed the church to recognize the newly founded kingdom's sovereignty is a topic for another conversation, but it doesn't change the fact that it was the better outcome, because otherwise Faerghus would've steamrolled the empire until every fighting man died, as they already proved they were too much for Adrestia by beating their asses and then go to the church to make it official to further rub it on their loser faces.
But the empire, and specially the fandom, doesn't understand this. Instead, they view it as one of the reasons why they resent the church, resent Rhea, so much. They probably thought Rhea should've come up and tell Faerghus that their victory doesn't count or something, getting angry at her for conceding, even though they couldn't have done anything about it because they just lost. If they didn't want Rhea to "divide the masses to make them bicker among themselves", the empire should've thought of that before losing the rebellion.
In fact, if they didn't want a rebellion in the first place, the empire should've thought of that before severely mistreating the people of the north.
For ME one of the craziest takes I've seen float around is that Rhea Bad for helping Loog and Faerghus as a whole gain independence from Adrestia because Wilhelm Existed. Like, just because Rhea was Wilhelm's friend and Adrestia was close to the Church, fuck Faerghus' freedom. That's so fucking wild???
Wot? That's a take? Fr? On Sothis?
Was she supposed to not mediate the situation and let Faerghus steamroll the Empire or something? Was she supposed to side with the empire when she only had the KoS and Faerghus had a shit ton relics?
For Wilhelm my ass. That dude gave up ruling before he died lmao.
The Bakugou Experence(TM)
Bakugou: *punches Izuku*
Izuku, starry eyed: "Woow, Bakugou, that was so cool!"
Kirashima: "What a manly punch!"
Eraserhead: *grumbles, but is secretly impressed by how good a punch it was, even though he wants to improve his form a bit*
Shigaraki: *nods* "I can see why you're the one closest to Deku."
All Might: "What good friends they are!"
Only related to a post I saw but it IS wild that
Things that Dimitri Fire Emblem can rightfully be criticized for:
Using excessive violence against his enemies
Dedicating a massive amount of his life to revenge
Actively seeking death when he’s made promises he needs to be alive to keep
Leading people who loved and were loyal to him on what is essentially a suicide mission
Being a dick to people trying to help him
(All of which are acknowledged by the story and he changes)
Things Dimitri gets criticized for:
Defending his home country against imperialism
Some bullshit “status quo” argument
Being mentally ill
You have no idea how happy it makes me to still see Lindsay fan art.
Thank you for this!
Admiral Lindsay Her Hotness 🫡⚓️
Mini comic sketch for James, featuring Scarlett and Fodoquia 🥛
Im on the same boat as you! The lack of paired endings stunk a little but it was immediately offset by the fact that characters appear in more than their assigned endings. It does add to the world being more intertwined and lived in! I hope I get to see Jeremy in those endings once I spare him and recruit him in my second run.
And there will be a second run! I really need to experiment and see what I can come up with, and I also need to learn how to manage money because I always have a sucky time with it every game I play. And see if I can get rapport I missed the first time.
But just like you, it won't be for a while. I'm close to finishing off my first run of Tactics Ogre (Chaos route) as well as finishing off my Engage run (same money and missing supports situation, not to mention I haven't played the dlc)
The Virginia and Gilbert ending (plus Leah) has got to be my favorite one among the cast!
It's been an absolute blast discussing this game with you! Here's hoping we can keep this up!
Epilogue wise!
Or the credit roll, where only Alain gets an ending based on who got enough convos (+ a plot gizmo) with him, when the other characters do their thing!
Sure, as a FE player, the lack of paired endings based on the rapport convos was a bit annoying, but to be honest, given how the endings for each character have them at least share a screen with 1 or more other character, it's more... telling than shipping X and Y to see what comes out of it.
I mean, before getting Travis and the Tricorns' ending, we have a scene of them mock fighting/training together in the arena ft Amalia, and it's way more interesting and revealing about their character than some random "Bruno married Yunifi and opened a library in Bastoritza, with Travis visiting from times to times".
Sure Monica doesn't... rekindle in her ending her relationship with Clive (FE15xFE16 crossover?) in the ending, but in the playable epilogue aka where Alain can talk to the characters who are next to others and talk to each other... Clive is asking Monica, without any other thoughts, of course, if, y'know, they can meet her grandpa together but, uh, if she would accept to accompany him just because, uh, reasons.
Some ending background scenes, even if they're not in the textr proper, reference support/rapport convos (Mordon and Jerry drinking or Bertand and Govil chilling together) and I like the Cornian Ossan All Stars team practicing together, with Lex - the childhood friend - popping up in the background to watch them, even if we already got/saw his ending in city 1.1 earlier!
It helped depict this world and the characters as alive and interconnected, Lex is said to travel around the world after the war after all!
I regret not being able to use Sanatio more in the game - but that's the way it is lol - because he's kind of adorbs in his rapports, but maybe it's because he's turned in a butt-monkey who buttmonks in his Melisandre and Ochlys rapports lol (also his class is completely stupid) but yeah, called it, Sanatio being the only one who cared about the Orthodoxy, its people and Albion becomes the new Pope after Scarlett ditches her title to make flower crowns with her friends.
Hm.
IIRC the only pairing we have - regardless of the rapport convos - is Virginia and Gilbert, but tbh, if the "plot mandatory" convos tried to sell it, as I noted during the Drakengard saga post, the optional rapport convos (but not only between the two of them! see Aramis and Virginia's!) and the optional "yay we rebuilt Drakengard! Let's talk about the future of the country but wait Gilbert why are you talking with Virginia who's still basically at that point the Princess of another country and not talk to your retainers or even your totes-not big bro?" so their ending doesn't come off as a surprise, and to hammer it even more, the devs have them standing together in the playable epilogue talking about competing again.
I wouldn't say they're as hamfisted as Scarlett being the supposed canon love interest - because Alain marrying his cousin can throw a wrench in that marriage lol - but, uh, yeah. Random Drakengardian NPC foreshadowed it with his "wow Princess Virginia is so cool she rekt'd Giethe! We admire her a lot!" -> Gilbert's approval/opinion/wishes notwithstanding, Drakengardians NPCs like her even if she's from Cornia.
I also liked how Virginia and Gilbert's son will later be doted on and tutored by Leah, Gilbert's vassal who officialy became Virginia's and I found it was a nice callback to her support with Amalia - Leah wants to become stronger so she'll train everyday to defeat her, maybe she will use those polished skills to teach the future Drakengardian prince, since House Zelchesm is busy Tricorning around?
"And Minerva becomes a nun" -> I feel the execution is better here, because Hilda - who rides a flyin lizard and has a younger cleric sister - wants first and foremost to atone for her role in the "keeping the lockdown tight" during the plague, so if she can help by healing people this time I think it's plausible enough that she takes it, even if it means not being a wyvern knight anymore
(will she pioneer a new type of unit in Fevrith, the flying healer, but instead of being on a pegasi, flying healers would ride wyverns???)
As for the elves...
I liked how Eltrinde, to mirror maybe her rapport with people from each land (save for Drakengard?) is said to have travelled around the continent of Fevrith to finally break Elheim's policy of isolationism.
Rosalinde's last rapport convo with her vassal/knight Ithilion was cute, he was angsting about pursuing his romance with a human and being at her service and wanted to break up with his human, so she fires him for around 100 years, so he can live his romance, and then return to her if he wants - and in the ending BG, Ithilion is with his human :) (even in the cover art of the upcoming artbook!)
I'm not going to replay it so soon - but I'll definitely restart a run before the end of the year, on a higher difficulty to get the memetic fish stew ending or to get the utterly depressing Norbelle one.
(i want to try new shenanigans with units damn it like find a way to optimise Gloucester's damage input, do something so Berengaria doesn't die to a breeze and learns how to use her shield and/or make thematic teams like the "drunkards" with Mordon, Jeremy, Gilbert and Eltrinde)
my pieces for fodlan's fables (inspiration from little briar rose, jack and the beanstalk, twinkle twinkle little star respectively). 2020
Because she's a fave.
100% just because she's a fave.
Did Edelgard hold a trial for Dimitri when she was "forced" to kill him? Or for Claude or Seteth and Flayn when she killed them too?
"She spared them!"
As if vanishment isn't a horrible fate as well. And she still didn’t hold a trial for them.
I suppose it is my lack of attachment toward Edelgard that makes me feel that way (me shaking Edelgard like : you were almost my favourite but your writing fails you) is that I see people saying that of course the Eagles siding with Edelgard makes sense in the Tomb (CF) because can you imagine seeing the Archbishop condemning your house leader without trial ? Someone you admire getting condemned without any fair process ?
Meanwhile I'm like
The Eagles siding against Edelgard makes sense in the Tomb (SS) because can you imagine learning that your house leader is involved in almost all the shit that went down during your academic year, including sending the Death Knight against you multiple times, and you almost died, and saw death around you, multiple times... And she was actively involved in it ? She was an active participant in it ?
It's interesting. I think.
“I wish you were someone whose heart could be swayed by my words and deeds. If it were so, I would have done anything to make you my ally...”
"You are attacking the monastery; you're employing demonic beasts. You almost had your own classmates killed. My father is dead because of you. The closest thing I had to a home village was destroyed by the people you're working with and can't keep in check. You facilitated Flayn's kidnaping. The same people tried to assassinate Rhea *again*, attacked the students, and raided the Mausoleum, and it's all but a given that you orchestrated the bandit attack to have Dimitri and Claude killed. I am indeed someone whose heart was swayed by your words and deeds, Edelgard. What you don't seem to realize is that you've done everything to make me your enemy."
All you have to do is let Edelgard talk and she will eventually just tell on herself.
I have to wonder if she's actually incapable of keeping quiet, or if her lack of self-awareness is a condition of some sort.
This scene perfectly encapsulates some edelstands' mindset of just reading the scrip to "understand" the game, because it allows them more easily take Edelgard at her word, despite all the onscreen proof that show her as being a terrible person, such as the deployment of demonic beasts.
Considering the localization choices I found over the last couple of days, I can understand why certain fans thought Treehouse hated Edelgard. Because, yes, the game does make her come off a lot more harshly than she does in the Japanese. That the English version primes the player from the onset to view her as arrogant and distant, rather than a typical noble girl like the Japanese makes her out to be. But as a result of this the Flame Emperor reveal, the game's main twist, doesn't have the same impact it was supposed to. Rather than the reveal of Edelgard, who was initially the least suspect lord, being the masked person aiding the villains we've been fighting, it comes across more like it was expected that would be the case.
Instead, fans take Edelgard's cute side as the suprise. “Yeah, I know she did all that awful stuff in Part 1, but Part 2 shows that she's not that bad.” The translation flipped Edelgard's gap moe.
However, this also kills the argument that the translators hated her.
For instance, if she fights Byleth at the end of Part 1 she says “I wish you were someone whose heart could be swayed by my words and deeds. If it were so, I would have done anything to make you my ally...” In the Japanese however? “I wish you were the kind of person who could be moved by my words and actions. So I did whatever I could to get you on my side...” The Japanese version flat out confirms that Edelgard was trying to manipulate Byleth, but got erased and made out that she didn't really do anything of the sort. Likewise, mention of her using an information campaign to sway the citizens of the Empire who are opposed to this war, or that Edelgard is really puppeteering TWSITD are removed. Her route even has it's named changed, the symbolism of the safflower replaced with that of a red rose. And on top of that, the ending of her route tries to tone down the final smack in the face to the player. Gone is Edelgard consolidating power on herself to impose her will, alongside her admitting she has been waling the path of supremacy (hadou) which holds very negative implications, and the endings try to make it out that she did work to bring freedom to the people rather than simply imposing her will on them. Oh, and Caspar invading other countries while unable to control the Imperial army? He's merely sometimes reckless, whereas he has “victims” in the other routes. It wants to make it out that your influence prevented her from becoming a monster, rather than her influence turning you into one, putting her in the same camp as Dimitri and Claude.
Meanwhile, the translation makes the Church out to be in the wrong with the Rhea ending saying she rehabilitated the Church, and Seteth's solo making it out that he was intolerant towards other faiths before rather than him taking the stick out of his ass.
The translation mischaracterized Edelgard completely, making her harsher in the beginning but softening her up in the end. It destroyed the twist and message of the game, as supporting a lying tyrant is just a manner or being morally grey when the original game it was supposed to become clear that the player was played and became the baddie by their own choice. It even goes so far as to try to tell players her ideals are close to Claude's when her line was that she doesn't think their ideals are the same, making her more compatible to the lords who don't invade other nations following the war.
The game was meant to condemn Edelgard as a villain, yet the translation just shrugged off her actions and went “moral ambiguity, am I right?”
The biggest issue with Akechi for me is the lack of acknowledgement of the scope of the things he did.
Like I said before, Akechi is proto Edelgard for me, and there are more than a few reasons as to why.
They actually have a lot in common, now that I think about it: Very early on, the games present us with events that Edelgard and Akechi are revealed to behind of: The bandit attack in the prologue, which turned out to be an assassination attempt on Dimitri and Claude by Edelgard. And a train accident that killed and injured people, which turned out to be the result of Akechi forcing a mental breakdown on the innocent driver. From then on, we have these terribles events that are happening both in the foreground and background while we're befriending this person that have some strong opinions of their own while still being at least amicable enough to you.
But their amicability was ultimately just a farce to get the drop on the player with a surprise twist. These friendly people turned out to be the villain all along, behind nigh all bad things that have happened through the year and working in tandem with the greater scope villains, enabling them in all their fuckery with the excuse that they will deal with the "actual" bad guys themselves, and now they're going to remorselessly kill you and your real friends for no other reason other than you "being on their way".
But the similarities don't end there, they also share the one trait that ultimately made me hate them as characters: Everyone else is feeling sorry for them instead rightfully telling them off.
The games are very heavy-handedly trying to get us to feel bad for these awful people because they had the saddest backstories the writers could've come up with, completely glossing over their evil deeds in order to do so. And the games very deliberately chose the people that should be the angriest at these villains, besides the plank of wood protagonists, as THE ONES WHO FEEL SORRY FOR THEM THE MOST: Futaba and Seteth respectively. It has to be deliberate, there is no way this is coincidental. Insulting doesn't begin to describe it.
And this is just in the base game for Akechi. Royal comes up and it makes everything worse: The game is forcing you to play alongside this person who doesn't even bother to hide his contempt for you and your real friends. In fact, he fully embraces his psychotic personality and hijacks the story from then on. He basically contributes nothing but manpower for the new dungeon, as all he does in the story is catching up to where you are in regards as to who the antagonist is, and then being very vehemently against everything the antagonist does in the most visceral way possible, even though I don't care what this unwanted bastard thinks (side note, you know how people go at great lengths to say that Edelgard is an antagonist and not a villain? This idea very much applies, like actually applies, to Royal's new palace ruler) We're actually forced to deploy him for a sizeable part of the dungeon, and we spend a considerable amount of time on his thoughts and feeling on the matter, at the cost of spending time with the thoughts and feelings on the people we actually care about, Akechi is basically everything people accuse Yoshizawa, the new girl, of doing, even though Yoshizawa herself could've used some more time both in Royal and in the base game. And to top it all off, Royal further buys into the idea that Akechi was a victim and everything he's done was really Shido's fault and you should really feel bad for him.
Marketability has to play a factor in all of this. Just like how they needed to pull their punches with Edelgard's villainy because she's the game's main waifu, Atlus needed to ramp up the sympathy point for Akechi because he's a pretty anime boy.
This is just like what I've been talking about with @randomnameless a few weeks ago. Sympathy for the villains is a zero-sum game in which the writers and the audience need to ignore the suffering of the villains' victims in order to sell the sympathy. It's easier to do when the victims are ultimately background characters, so the story doesn't need to dwell on their pain like it does with main characters like Akechi or Edelgard. Even though this is all bad on its own, it gets worse for these two fuckers because among their victims are main named characters. Akechi killed Futaba's mom some time ago, which is the reason Futaba got a palace in the first place, and Akechi also kills Haru's dad on screen. Even though Kunikazu was ultimately a terrible person, I'd argue he was the least messed up of all palace rulers bar Futaba (yes, that includes Sae (does being a bitch run in the Niijima family?)) he didn't deserve such a horrible fate (none of Akechi's victims did) and that still doesn't change the fact that this must have scarred Haru, who despite having a bad relationship with her father, must have looked forward to patching thing up. Akechi robbed her of that.
Speaking of Haru, just like how the game has Futaba of all fucking people to try to feel bad for Akechi, the game also has Haru of all fucking people stay completely quiet during Akechi's little sad backstory moment (it's like Seteth and Flayn in Marianne's paralogue)
Really Haru was probably the most screwed over by the game, thank God Strikers came along and gave Haru the spotlight she deserves, which single handedly made her my most favorite character of all of Persona 5!
It ALL comes down to the fact that the game is deciding my feelings for these characters for me. Akechi and Edelgard are not good people, but they still could be great characters, but the games don't commit to the fact that they're bad people, for one reason or another. Some explanation may be that Joker and Byleth don't hate them despite everything they've done because of their past relationships, even if said relationships were built on lies, but this explanation isn't very satisfying because it's a well-known fact that Joker and Byleth try to be both silent protagonist for the players to self-insert into as well as their own character, resulting in them failing at both.
Maybe the games didn't want to promote hatred for these characters because of the themes and whatnot, but that doesn't mean going so far to the other direction. I understand the protagonists not letting themselves be consume by hatred, the problem is one of framing. Far too much focus goes into feeling uwu sad for Akechi and Edelgard and not enough (or any at all) goes into how Joker and Byleth need to not let themselves be too consumed by their hatred of this people who had hurt them so deeply, even as they try to stop them. I guess I should be fair to Three Houses and acknowledge they did do this with Dimitri in Azure Moon, but Persona 5 has no such thing for Futaba, and especially not Haru.
Trying to get me to feel bad for a character has consistently achieved the opposite.
I feel like Akechi is a poor-man's Adachi.
Like, the twist with Adachi was really well-handled. He was a character you always say, were on friendly terms with, but him not having a social link in the original game served to highlight that something was off about him. Him being revealed to be the killer, as well as his true emotions, came as a shock as well as highlighted P4's themes of how often we only see people on a surface level. I haven't played Golden but I know about giving Adachi a social link and an ending where the protag instead allows Adachi to go.
Akechi feels like they wanted to pull off the same twist, but tries to imporve upon it. They gave him a social link that automatically progresses as the story does, but unlike Teddy he doesn't become playable until very late in the game. So that should tip some people off. Likewise, he's the only theif who is not in the original opening, making his inclusions stand out more. And whereas Adachi served to highlight the themes, Akechi instead serves to highlight what the Phantom Thieves could become in the bad ending. He betrays, we find out the truth, kick his ass, and then attempts to redeem himself though self-sacrifice. I honestly don't like how wishy-washy the series is with his survival unlike P3's protagonist.
Haven't played Royal yet though, but I'm going to now considering I realized the hadou thing. Really, I feel like P5 didn't click with me partially because of the hadou element even if I didn't recognize it.
That's just the thing with Rhea in these godforsaken games.
They could've just added extra dialogue of Rhea giving her blessings just this one to use the hero's relic. To showcase that her feelings matter for once, especially when it comes to things that relate directly to her family.
But Rhea is just being denied by the game of this. She's just denied of everything by everyone.
Just look at how edelstands denied her of her anger, trying to say that she overreacted in the Holy Tomb, shitting on her for it and using that moment as proof that she shouldn't rule over Fodlan (even though she doesn't rule over Fodlan) and they minimize all the shit Edelgard has done up until that point to further sell the point that Rhea overreacted, doubling as a poor defense against Edelgard critiques to boot.
@zeroabyss replied to your post “Just thinking about it but - UO : MC learns the...”:
Using the relics is a Necessary Evil. Rhea herself isn’t complaining about doing so either. If it saves the day and they can help destroy Nemesis instead of helping his reign, that’d even be some positive to her to come out of the atrocity that created them. Just wanted to give my two cents on only that. The rest is valid.
TBF that's what I was sort of ranting against, Rhea isn't complaining and we infer that she allows the Relic's use in this situation because it's Nemesis they're dealing with, and they need their power.
But it's not tackled in the game, we don't have Claude, in the light of this reveal, tell her that maybe he should let that Nabatean alone and doesn't want to use this bow anymore, where Rhea would tell him it's okay just for this once, because bro/sis who became Failnaught would surely have wanted to lend their power to defeat Nemesis and his Elites.
It's just, nowhere so while we can suppose a lot of things happen "off-screen", objective fact is, in the game without any indication like a NPC telling us they talked about it or something, the reveal about the Nabateans and the Relics amounts to nothing for the characters.
Like, with or without Rhea's infodump about the Relics, nothing about the upcoming fight would have changed, Nemesis is storming against the Monastery to do Nemesis things so Claude'n'pals have to kill him "again".
What was the point of that infodump? What kind of consequences does it have? Is it even closing a character arc?
:/
Oh my gosh, you're right! Claude's support with Flayn takes a turn for the worst when you remember the infodump at the end of Verdant Wind. Claude learns the real scope of Flayn's secrecy, and not once does he realize the immense danger he was putting her in by prying into her business. But then again, Claude himself should have known better than to try and pry into someone's business like that in the first place. He himself has a secret that can be a thread to his life if found out, surely he should understand that maybe Flayn herself is in a position like that, but he still insists on getting it out of her.
Really, for as much of a jerk as Balthus can be for blackmailing Claude with outing him, I can't help but side with Balthus just the tiniest bit for giving Claude a taste of his own medicine. Claude himself basically outed Flayn and the other two Nabateans at the end of Verdant Wind.
But I guess it shouldn't be too surprising that Claude let his curiosity turn him into a hypocrite, he already let it turn him into a jerk. His response to Byleth mourning for her dad is easily the worst of the three, even worse than Edelgard's.
"You may as well give me your dead father's diary nicely, otherwise I will just steal it. You crying or sum'? Use your sleeve to wipe out the tears, I don't know."
Claude really was an asshole, wasn't him.
Side Note: He congratulates Petra for thanking the spirits for proving for them, but mocks Leonie for thanking the goddess for providing for them. His bigotry against Fodlan is really showing. He truly is an almyran.
@pandp-author replied to your post “Just thinking about it but - UO : MC learns the...”:
@themoomoorn If it's not too much asking, what is it about Petra's support with Claude that you don't like? I'm rather curious.
If I can jump in, for me it'd be this :
Petra : Harming Trees is bad because they have spirits and it's important, the tree gives us food and shelter but it also needs us. We live in harmony, all those things.
Clout : Ah yes, you're close to the nature, unlike those stupid Fodlan people who believe everything comes from their goddess and forgot nature.
Petra : Remember when I said Billy-sensei turning green looks like the spirits I am often talking about? And how the Fodlan Goddess basically made and created those spirits? - Who am I kidding, I can't tell you this, we're in a Fodlan game, you must always have a point and Church BaD.
Clout : Of course!
Clout : I mean, imagine if the Hresvelgs could trace their lineage to Saint Seiros herself, who is said to be, in her own scriptures, a Child of the Goddess aka not a human herself or at least a divine being. I'd look like an imbecile, right?
Also fun how "uwu nobility isn't a matter of birthright, status doesn't matter uwu" when the same guy tells to Cyril :
"nobility doesn't matter we're all equals uwu except when I could use my status to compel a random to do things he doesn't want to".
But back to the Petra support :
Clout : I've heard Hanneman say the same thing to Doro.
Petra : Wow you're so strange for saying those things! And you are a noble who can climb to trees! So weird!
Clout : Are we sure Caspar can't do the same? He knows how to pummel someone to death with his fists, maybe he'd also know how to climb trees or something, given how he didn't receive any education befitting a heir of a house, since his brother is the heir and he is naught but a spare. But hey, I'll totally call you strange because you are a princess of Brigid, nevermind the link I cannot tell you about between you being the princess of a foreign land and me.
Petra : But you know how to climb trees and take care of your equipment ! I'm so impressed, I've never seen any noble take care of his own stuff before. What is that? Ferdie oils his own weapons and armor? Who is that Ferdie you're talking about?
---
Granted, given how Petra was trashtalked by Hubert (or trash thought) when he first met her and was around the most, uh, decadent part of Adrestian Nobility, I can't fault her for thinking Claude climbing to trees and tending to his own bow is extraordinary - but I suppose if she ever went to see any BL what she finds "abornmal in Fodlan and totes only Adrestia because that's the only place she visited" wouldn't be so... abnormal.
not a fan of how EVERYONE acts like this exchange didn't exist
"Claude was right about Rhea and the church promoting isolationism"
okay, Frieza.
Not only do people not want to acknowledge that Byleth is part Nabatean, not only do they think Byleth losing the stone that gave her life (as Byleth was stillborn) a good thing, but they actively act as though Byleth's nabatean heritage is a curse placed upon her by the evil Rhea.
There is this rather disgusting fanfic called A vow Remembered that is basically a Rhea hit piece. Later in the story, Byleth starts to develop draconic features that the story makes sure to point to Rhea as the culprit, having Byleth despairing over this body horror transformation, which is easy to interpretate as Byleth rejecting her nabatean heritage, even though that's her heritage.
The fic in general completely buys into Rhea being a villain and the church having hard power over Fodlan, neither of which is true to the game. The only thing missing is constants fanning over Edelgard because the fic is a Golden Deer route one. But don't you worry, there is some fanning over Edelgard, she's treated much more charitable than Rhea in any case. The fic isn't kind to Dimitri either. And Raphael, a core member of the deer, is sidelined to hell, too.
I just want to point this out.
In this year's Rider series the MC Shouma is half-granute, his father being an alien from another dimension and his mother being a human. The villains are Shouma's half-siblings, pure-blooded granutes who look down on humanity as nothing more than ingredients. They killed Shouma's mother out of this racism when their father died, using her to make dark treats, and even tried to do that to Shouma who was only saved because he was part granute. As such, he now fights to protect humans from his siblings and the junkies sent after him.
The reason why I bring this up is how people act that Byleth being part Nabatean is a flaw, and that them becoming entirely "human" is a good thing as they kill other Nabateans. People even act as though Byleth ISN'T a Nabatean, with them losing their power at the end just them returning to being "normal." Normal means rejecting the idea of coexistence, treating the other race as something to be disposed of simply because they are not the same.
It's a villain trope, one Houses inverts by making it so that the villains are actually all humans. Hell, that last one is pretty big considering how many games end with dragons, demon kings, Gods of Law, etc. Humans are the cause of suffering, the non-humans are just scapegoats for their shitty actions. Kinda sounds like something out of The Witcher novels really.
I just want to point this out.
In this year's Rider series the MC Shouma is half-granute, his father being an alien from another dimension and his mother being a human. The villains are Shouma's half-siblings, pure-blooded granutes who look down on humanity as nothing more than ingredients. They killed Shouma's mother out of this racism when their father died, using her to make dark treats, and even tried to do that to Shouma who was only saved because he was part granute. As such, he now fights to protect humans from his siblings and the junkies sent after him.
The reason why I bring this up is how people act that Byleth being part Nabatean is a flaw, and that them becoming entirely "human" is a good thing as they kill other Nabateans. People even act as though Byleth ISN'T a Nabatean, with them losing their power at the end just them returning to being "normal." Normal means rejecting the idea of coexistence, treating the other race as something to be disposed of simply because they are not the same.
It's a villain trope, one Houses inverts by making it so that the villains are actually all humans. Hell, that last one is pretty big considering how many games end with dragons, demon kings, Gods of Law, etc. Humans are the cause of suffering, the non-humans are just scapegoats for their shitty actions. Kinda sounds like something out of The Witcher novels really.
@pandp-author replied to your post “Just thinking about it but - UO : MC learns the...”:
@themoomoorn If it's not too much asking, what is it about Petra's support with Claude that you don't like? I'm rather curious.
If I can jump in, for me it'd be this :
Petra : Harming Trees is bad because they have spirits and it's important, the tree gives us food and shelter but it also needs us. We live in harmony, all those things.
Clout : Ah yes, you're close to the nature, unlike those stupid Fodlan people who believe everything comes from their goddess and forgot nature.
Petra : Remember when I said Billy-sensei turning green looks like the spirits I am often talking about? And how the Fodlan Goddess basically made and created those spirits? - Who am I kidding, I can't tell you this, we're in a Fodlan game, you must always have a point and Church BaD.
Clout : Of course!
Clout : I mean, imagine if the Hresvelgs could trace their lineage to Saint Seiros herself, who is said to be, in her own scriptures, a Child of the Goddess aka not a human herself or at least a divine being. I'd look like an imbecile, right?
Also fun how "uwu nobility isn't a matter of birthright, status doesn't matter uwu" when the same guy tells to Cyril :
"nobility doesn't matter we're all equals uwu except when I could use my status to compel a random to do things he doesn't want to".
But back to the Petra support :
Clout : I've heard Hanneman say the same thing to Doro.
Petra : Wow you're so strange for saying those things! And you are a noble who can climb to trees! So weird!
Clout : Are we sure Caspar can't do the same? He knows how to pummel someone to death with his fists, maybe he'd also know how to climb trees or something, given how he didn't receive any education befitting a heir of a house, since his brother is the heir and he is naught but a spare. But hey, I'll totally call you strange because you are a princess of Brigid, nevermind the link I cannot tell you about between you being the princess of a foreign land and me.
Petra : But you know how to climb trees and take care of your equipment ! I'm so impressed, I've never seen any noble take care of his own stuff before. What is that? Ferdie oils his own weapons and armor? Who is that Ferdie you're talking about?
---
Granted, given how Petra was trashtalked by Hubert (or trash thought) when he first met her and was around the most, uh, decadent part of Adrestian Nobility, I can't fault her for thinking Claude climbing to trees and tending to his own bow is extraordinary - but I suppose if she ever went to see any BL what she finds "abornmal in Fodlan and totes only Adrestia because that's the only place she visited" wouldn't be so... abnormal.
You know, when I first played the game, I held both Rhea and Edelgard in high regard, Edelgard perhaps more so by virtue of Crimson Flower actually showing Edelgard in all of her blood-soaked glory. Then I saw the vitriol people threw at Rhea while defending Edelgard —while accusing everyone else of doing the opposite— and decided to revisit my stances on both characters. It won't surprise you that I ended with a more positive and negative view of Rhea and Edelgard respectively.
I guess it goes to show how Edelgard can leave a positive impression on people when taken at face value, same with Rhea on the negative side. I remember feeling exactly like Byleth when the prospect of killing Edelgard showed up in my first playthrough of the game: Silver Snow.
But it's starting to become more apparent, with these conversations I'm having with you and Fantasy Invader, that Claude has failings of his own. His interactions with Cyril never sat well with me, I was thinking what the fuck Claude's problem was, leave Cyril alone??? I didn't pay much attention to how outspoken he was on Shamir and Alois paralogue vs being dead silent in Cyril and the pink haired slaver paralogue, it was only recently that I realized how poorly that spoke of him, especially in the greater context of "Rhea keeping Fodlan isolated" debacle (she does not). His support with Petra was sweet enough, I was focusing on their attempts to bond with each other as fellow strangers in a strange land, and not in how he didn't miss the chance to throw shade at the Religion of Fodlan (Now that I think about it, doesn't he do the same on his Leonie and Ignatz supports?)
Claude: True. The people of Fódlan believe everything is a blessing from the goddess. They've forgotten to be grateful to nature too.
Claude: Nature gives us life. Sustains us. Without it, we couldn't breathe. Couldn't live. It's everything.
Claude: It's fine to pray to the goddess, but we have to respect nature too. Don't you think?
Claude, you said it yourself, the people believe everything is a gift from the goddess, which would of course include nature. As far as you know, i.e. next to nothing, people are grateful to the goddess for her gift of nature and they showcase their gratitude by treating nature with respect, because they otherwise fear that they may upset the goddess the same way the people of Brigid fear they may upset the spirits. You fucking moron.
@pandp-author replied to your post “Just thinking about it but - UO : MC learns the...”:
@themoomoorn If it's not too much asking, what is it about Petra's support with Claude that you don't like? I'm rather curious.
If I can jump in, for me it'd be this :
Petra : Harming Trees is bad because they have spirits and it's important, the tree gives us food and shelter but it also needs us. We live in harmony, all those things.
Clout : Ah yes, you're close to the nature, unlike those stupid Fodlan people who believe everything comes from their goddess and forgot nature.
Petra : Remember when I said Billy-sensei turning green looks like the spirits I am often talking about? And how the Fodlan Goddess basically made and created those spirits? - Who am I kidding, I can't tell you this, we're in a Fodlan game, you must always have a point and Church BaD.
Clout : Of course!
Clout : I mean, imagine if the Hresvelgs could trace their lineage to Saint Seiros herself, who is said to be, in her own scriptures, a Child of the Goddess aka not a human herself or at least a divine being. I'd look like an imbecile, right?
Also fun how "uwu nobility isn't a matter of birthright, status doesn't matter uwu" when the same guy tells to Cyril :
"nobility doesn't matter we're all equals uwu except when I could use my status to compel a random to do things he doesn't want to".
But back to the Petra support :
Clout : I've heard Hanneman say the same thing to Doro.
Petra : Wow you're so strange for saying those things! And you are a noble who can climb to trees! So weird!
Clout : Are we sure Caspar can't do the same? He knows how to pummel someone to death with his fists, maybe he'd also know how to climb trees or something, given how he didn't receive any education befitting a heir of a house, since his brother is the heir and he is naught but a spare. But hey, I'll totally call you strange because you are a princess of Brigid, nevermind the link I cannot tell you about between you being the princess of a foreign land and me.
Petra : But you know how to climb trees and take care of your equipment ! I'm so impressed, I've never seen any noble take care of his own stuff before. What is that? Ferdie oils his own weapons and armor? Who is that Ferdie you're talking about?
---
Granted, given how Petra was trashtalked by Hubert (or trash thought) when he first met her and was around the most, uh, decadent part of Adrestian Nobility, I can't fault her for thinking Claude climbing to trees and tending to his own bow is extraordinary - but I suppose if she ever went to see any BL what she finds "abornmal in Fodlan and totes only Adrestia because that's the only place she visited" wouldn't be so... abnormal.
Feather Shields and Bows for the win!
You're absolutely right they're ridiculous, and super fun to use! And also kind of game breaking... which goes to show that sometimes the only way to balance something is by limiting your access to it. Think of Quick Riposte in Three Houses.
I do appreciate that the game gives you the option to let yourself go to your desire for vengeance, because it does make it more meaningful to choose not to and then be rewarded with the good ending. It's cheesy, but I like it.
I adore the final battle for the fact that everyone is coming together to defeat the big bad boss, even the zenorian people.
My final squad was Alain, Lex, Chloe, Scarlet, and Clive!
Despite still standing on the hill of Gryphon Knights being the best class, I ended up using Liza a hell of a lot. Arbalist/Shield shooters are jack of all trades, but rather than being average in what they do, they do everything competently enough that they are something greater than their sums of their parts.
I do need to make a NG+ run, I was terrible with managing my money, equipment, everything! It was straight up impossible to unlock all raptors and I think I was handicapping myself trying to get them all in a single playthrough. I'm having similar troubles on my first Engage run, and I did not have any of these issues in Three House because I was able to internalize from the very beginning That I couldn't get all the supports. The things I do to myself...
At the end of the day... I'll say my favorite character is Clive. He's my best boi.
What about yours?
WDYM only Alain can get the killing blow on Baltro???
TFW the Tricorns keep on whacking him to no avail, ditto with Magellan :(
even if plot wise it makes sense
@pandp-author Feathershields are absolutely ridiculous lol, Fodoquir basically exists and makes mage teams/teams where Sorceress try their "surprise you're frozen !" combo completely meaningless !
Sanatio's healing is completely stupid too lol, too bad we can't play more maps with the angels/feathered people, because they're fun to use!
I'll make a more detailed post about the epilogue later but plot wise for the final chapter, as expected, Gharnef Baltro backstabs the Red Emperor, it is revealed Ilenia - Alain's mom - survived in the prologue, but Red Emperor Galerius Galvius when defeated body/soul hopped on hers so she became his unwilling medium (which raises all sorts of questions here, when Alain kills Galvius during the "Rescue Scarlett" mission, did he aleady kill Ilenia and Baltro resurrected her, but she's somehow still alive and not a zombie?) but ultimately she is free when Baltro uses Galvius' soul to open the "gate to the netherworld" or something, to use the souls of the Zenoiran currently in limbo as fuel for his spells.
Given how Baltro notes that the Cornian Royal fam has the blood of the Maiden who survived the sacrifice of the Unicorn and its curse 800 years ago, I guess he implies that is the reason why Ilenia makes for a better host than the random Valmore - the previous human who was Galvius' host - but then it raises the question of Giethe hunting Virginia : wouldn't she have been used as a spare ? Granted, given how Galvius incarnates in the flesh of people who defeat him, the only way to incarnate in Virginia would be for either her or a random to kill Galvius while he's using Ilenia's body (and Virginia would later kill the random).
So I guess if Giethe brought her head Baltro would have been "you dumb fuck", but Alcina's plan to uwu with Gerard in Alain's body wouldn't put a dent in his plans, since he could get rid of Gerard in Alain's body to put Galvius instead if needed.
As cheesy as it was, I liked how the plot unfolded here - despite his "perfect lord" appearances, Alain still wants revenge for his mom and didn't forget what happened 10 years ago : if the player chooses to give Alain his vengeance, despite learning the plot and the truth about Zenoira, he... actually kills his mother, and Baltro is still Baltroing around.
If he acts as the better person and the "saviour", he tries to offer mercy to Galvius, despite him killing his mother and plunging the continent in a sea of blood, which gives Baltro the occasion and opportunity to betray Galvius, thus freeing Ilenia without killing her, and it gives the party the occasion to kill/banish him to oblivion instead.
The usual "follow the plot = you're rewarded + vengeance is meaningless" trope.
Of course I can't talk about the final map without ranting about the green NPCs that are here to "help" you - nice nod to have them be Drakengardians to echo Gilbert's earlier (at the end of arc 2!) words of sending Drakengard's help to help Cornia when it will be needed - sure his help is green units + Hermann (one of his retainer that is blue this playable \o/) but it's a nice nod to the former plot and you can honeypot about the political ramifications of this move (the Liberation Army led by the Cornian prince helped free Drakengard, so now the Drakengard Army will help the Cornian prince to free his country?).
No such lines about the enemy Bestrals - who as Bestrals can't be soul snatched - who are recruited by Dyna who basically tells them "wtf dudes stop fighting with them and join us instead!" but I confess I laughed at their names (il y en a qui s'appelle Paulo mdr, pourquoi pas Bébert pendant qu'on y est?).
Too bad the named minibosses aren't more developped, but I wonder if in the Norbelle aka worst ending we get to fight Reimann and pals instead.
Oh well, I'll have other occasions to replay that map to get the different endings - at least the normal one on this PT (the one where Alain kills Galvius but fights off the possession thanks to his magical plot ring that resonates with the plot ring of his partner).
This ties with another issue the fandom has with Rhea and Edelgard:
They don't want to acknowledge the fact that Rhea has valid reasons for reacting so strongly against the shit Edelgard because that would be acknowledging Edelgard did something wrong, and Edelgard just can't do anything wrong, she just can't.
Thus, they need to undermine everything and anything Edelgard does that may make her look like an asshole (i.e. almost everything she does) to that Rhea looks unreasonable for reacting so strongly to Edelgard's actions, calling them a mere provocation.
Even though Edelgard's provocations involve:
Declaring war against all Fodlan.
Attacking Rhea's ward wherein are a lot of innocent, defenseless civilians.
Graverobbing Rhea's family's remains, when students (potentially Edelgard's own classmates) are there, threatening to kill them with soldiers, a crazy assassin, and fucking demonic beasts if they interfere.
Being revealed to be involved in nigh all the horrific things that had happened throughout the year, which involves: 1. The death of Jeralt. 2. The horrific transformations of innocent students into demonic beasts (that Edelgard will then use to threaten more students with) 3. The Remire Tragedy. 4. The kidnap of Flayn. 5. The assault at the Monastery by the people who tried to grave rob, attack and kill the students, and assassinate Rhea AGAIN. 6. The assassination attempt against Dimitri and Claude all the way back in the Prologue.
There is really no defending Edelgard, and these people know it. Which is why they have to trivialize her evil deeds, because otherwise Edelgard is the villain.
If I found out that someone I trusted is siding with someone else, whose ancestor I was close with, but is now working with racist terrorists who were not only responsible for the genocide of my race and are using their bones as weapons and their blood for power, but also have committed numerous crimes throughout the school year including attacking students, kidnapping, burning down an entire village, turning people into monsters, murdering someone I was close to, and is now graverobbing, attacking and attempting to kill anyone who tries to stop them. Yeah, I'd be fucking pissed.
EXACTLY! SHE SHOULD BE THREATENING YOU! SHE SHOULD BE SAYING TERRIBLE THINGS ABOUT YOU! SIDING WITH SOMEONE THAT DANGEROUS AND CRUEL DESERVES IRE AND DERISION!!!
Edelgard.
Edelgard is what the fuck is wrong with this fandom.
They have to bend over backwards to defend her even though there is no defending her, than they're more than eager to drag everyone, especially Rhea, through the mud in order to prop up Edelgard. They have to come up with this asinine takes of Dimitri being the real racist when actively wants to help Duscur, more so than Edelgard cares about Brigid beyond using Petra as a bargaining chip to keep them in line and possibly force them to fight her war. Or Rhea brainwashing Cyril into hating his shitty homeland, even though he hated it long before he came (was thrown to) Fodlan, and even then he didn't like Fodlan right away because these pink haired fucks enslaved him. Or how Nabateans being genocided was totally deserve so that the Slitherers don't look so bad and therefore Edelgard doesn't look so bad for siding with them.
Edelgard von Hresvelg is the worst thing to happen to this fandom, to this game, and to this series.
If you look at what happened at Duscur, like really look at it, the whole thing really undercuts Edelgard's narrative.
"But Edelgard says Duscur had nothing to do with her."
This is what she says in the Japanese.
"What's the use of repeating the same words over and over again? Shut up and fight, you petulant little buggers."
She's basically telling Dimitri to stop bringing it up all the time. And the whole scene in Azure Moon isn't that Edelgard didn't cause it, but rather there may have been a mastermind connected to the Empire and the likes of Kronya and Solon. The game is implying that Edelgard was manipulated, but at the same time she's turned a blind eye to those she's trampled in pursuit of her goals while the prisoner is about how people can commit atrocitious acts and STILL believe they are in the right.
Hell, the reason why the Western Kingdom nobles assassinated Lambert undermines Edelgard's claims that if she didn't act the world would claim more victims as it wouldn't change. Here we have attempts at reform snuffed out not by the Church but by the nobility. Nobility that then turn around and side with Edelgard during the war with Hopes explaining that Edelgard will protect their positions by them doing so rather that pushing through reforms that elevate the commoners.
But then again, Edelgard's reforms are about her using her power to force her beliefs on others.
But then you look at those Western lords. Kleiman was made a viscount for the subjugation of Duscur, given the former nation as his personal territory by Rufus. Hard not to compare this to Edelgard promising Caspapa control of the former Alliance territory in exchange for his support during the war, no? But Kleiman was in on the conspiracy to kill Lambert, he knew the truth, but instead massacred innocent people for his own benefit and was given a title for it. Lonato was given a title by Rufus in exchange for his service, and the game makes it clear that him taking his people to attack Rhea while attacking villages along the way is a sign he wasn't fit for the role. Even Rufus, who had a title despite not having a Crest, simply wanted more power when he had his brother killed.
They did horrible things, causing innocents to suffer, just for power.
"But Lambert was made a king because of magical dragon blood when Rufus was the oldest son, he should have been king if it wasn't for Crests."
Rufus was still a duke, had his own territory, and simply wanted more power. When he got that power, he ran the kingdom into the ground and tried to have his nephew assassinated multiple times. Same thing with Miklan, who only got kicked out of his family over multiple attempts to kill Sylvain, not because he didn't have a Crest. And if anything, Rufus shows how dangerous a meritocracy can be because it all depends on who is giving out lands and titles. A shit leader appoints shitty officials. Hell, in Romance of the Three Kingdoms Cao Cao hands out titles and stuff all the time when people please him (and when they piss him off, he has to be convinced not to have them killed), and all he did was create a system where ambitious people backstabbed each other for power. Just like what we see with the Western nobles.
Meanwhile, the people of Duscur were falsely acccused, slaughtered like animals, the survivors oppressed and made out to be the real villains by those who actually were responsible for the chaos that ensued and profitted off of it by putting themselves in charge. Really hard not to see Rhea and Dedue bonding after the war over experiencing the same bullshit.
But people try to make it sound like the Nabatean genocide was okay, and that Dimitri is the real racist despite trying to get justice for Duscur and that Dedue should totally join the person who knows the truth about the Tragedy but keeps her mouth shut in order to further her own goals. Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with this fandom?