Because She's A Fave.

Because she's a fave.

100% just because she's a fave.

Did Edelgard hold a trial for Dimitri when she was "forced" to kill him? Or for Claude or Seteth and Flayn when she killed them too?

"She spared them!"

As if vanishment isn't a horrible fate as well. And she still didn’t hold a trial for them.

I suppose it is my lack of attachment toward Edelgard that makes me feel that way (me shaking Edelgard like : you were almost my favourite but your writing fails you) is that I see people saying that of course the Eagles siding with Edelgard makes sense in the Tomb (CF) because can you imagine seeing the Archbishop condemning your house leader without trial ? Someone you admire getting condemned without any fair process ?

Meanwhile I'm like

The Eagles siding against Edelgard makes sense in the Tomb (SS) because can you imagine learning that your house leader is involved in almost all the shit that went down during your academic year, including sending the Death Knight against you multiple times, and you almost died, and saw death around you, multiple times... And she was actively involved in it ? She was an active participant in it ?

It's interesting. I think.

The biggest issue with Akechi for me is the lack of acknowledgement of the scope of the things he did.

Like I said before, Akechi is proto Edelgard for me, and there are more than a few reasons as to why.

They actually have a lot in common, now that I think about it: Very early on, the games present us with events that Edelgard and Akechi are revealed to behind of: The bandit attack in the prologue, which turned out to be an assassination attempt on Dimitri and Claude by Edelgard. And a train accident that killed and injured people, which turned out to be the result of Akechi forcing a mental breakdown on the innocent driver. From then on, we have these terribles events that are happening both in the foreground and background while we're befriending this person that have some strong opinions of their own while still being at least amicable enough to you.

But their amicability was ultimately just a farce to get the drop on the player with a surprise twist. These friendly people turned out to be the villain all along, behind nigh all bad things that have happened through the year and working in tandem with the greater scope villains, enabling them in all their fuckery with the excuse that they will deal with the "actual" bad guys themselves, and now they're going to remorselessly kill you and your real friends for no other reason other than you "being on their way".

But the similarities don't end there, they also share the one trait that ultimately made me hate them as characters: Everyone else is feeling sorry for them instead rightfully telling them off.

The games are very heavy-handedly trying to get us to feel bad for these awful people because they had the saddest backstories the writers could've come up with, completely glossing over their evil deeds in order to do so. And the games very deliberately chose the people that should be the angriest at these villains, besides the plank of wood protagonists, as THE ONES WHO FEEL SORRY FOR THEM THE MOST: Futaba and Seteth respectively. It has to be deliberate, there is no way this is coincidental. Insulting doesn't begin to describe it.

And this is just in the base game for Akechi. Royal comes up and it makes everything worse: The game is forcing you to play alongside this person who doesn't even bother to hide his contempt for you and your real friends. In fact, he fully embraces his psychotic personality and hijacks the story from then on. He basically contributes nothing but manpower for the new dungeon, as all he does in the story is catching up to where you are in regards as to who the antagonist is, and then being very vehemently against everything the antagonist does in the most visceral way possible, even though I don't care what this unwanted bastard thinks (side note, you know how people go at great lengths to say that Edelgard is an antagonist and not a villain? This idea very much applies, like actually applies, to Royal's new palace ruler) We're actually forced to deploy him for a sizeable part of the dungeon, and we spend a considerable amount of time on his thoughts and feeling on the matter, at the cost of spending time with the thoughts and feelings on the people we actually care about, Akechi is basically everything people accuse Yoshizawa, the new girl, of doing, even though Yoshizawa herself could've used some more time both in Royal and in the base game. And to top it all off, Royal further buys into the idea that Akechi was a victim and everything he's done was really Shido's fault and you should really feel bad for him.

Marketability has to play a factor in all of this. Just like how they needed to pull their punches with Edelgard's villainy because she's the game's main waifu, Atlus needed to ramp up the sympathy point for Akechi because he's a pretty anime boy.

This is just like what I've been talking about with @randomnameless a few weeks ago. Sympathy for the villains is a zero-sum game in which the writers and the audience need to ignore the suffering of the villains' victims in order to sell the sympathy. It's easier to do when the victims are ultimately background characters, so the story doesn't need to dwell on their pain like it does with main characters like Akechi or Edelgard. Even though this is all bad on its own, it gets worse for these two fuckers because among their victims are main named characters. Akechi killed Futaba's mom some time ago, which is the reason Futaba got a palace in the first place, and Akechi also kills Haru's dad on screen. Even though Kunikazu was ultimately a terrible person, I'd argue he was the least messed up of all palace rulers bar Futaba (yes, that includes Sae (does being a bitch run in the Niijima family?)) he didn't deserve such a horrible fate (none of Akechi's victims did) and that still doesn't change the fact that this must have scarred Haru, who despite having a bad relationship with her father, must have looked forward to patching thing up. Akechi robbed her of that.

Speaking of Haru, just like how the game has Futaba of all fucking people to try to feel bad for Akechi, the game also has Haru of all fucking people stay completely quiet during Akechi's little sad backstory moment (it's like Seteth and Flayn in Marianne's paralogue)

Really Haru was probably the most screwed over by the game, thank God Strikers came along and gave Haru the spotlight she deserves, which single handedly made her my most favorite character of all of Persona 5!

It ALL comes down to the fact that the game is deciding my feelings for these characters for me. Akechi and Edelgard are not good people, but they still could be great characters, but the games don't commit to the fact that they're bad people, for one reason or another. Some explanation may be that Joker and Byleth don't hate them despite everything they've done because of their past relationships, even if said relationships were built on lies, but this explanation isn't very satisfying because it's a well-known fact that Joker and Byleth try to be both silent protagonist for the players to self-insert into as well as their own character, resulting in them failing at both.

Maybe the games didn't want to promote hatred for these characters because of the themes and whatnot, but that doesn't mean going so far to the other direction. I understand the protagonists not letting themselves be consume by hatred, the problem is one of framing. Far too much focus goes into feeling uwu sad for Akechi and Edelgard and not enough (or any at all) goes into how Joker and Byleth need to not let themselves be too consumed by their hatred of this people who had hurt them so deeply, even as they try to stop them. I guess I should be fair to Three Houses and acknowledge they did do this with Dimitri in Azure Moon, but Persona 5 has no such thing for Futaba, and especially not Haru.

Trying to get me to feel bad for a character has consistently achieved the opposite.

I feel like Akechi is a poor-man's Adachi.

Like, the twist with Adachi was really well-handled. He was a character you always say, were on friendly terms with, but him not having a social link in the original game served to highlight that something was off about him. Him being revealed to be the killer, as well as his true emotions, came as a shock as well as highlighted P4's themes of how often we only see people on a surface level. I haven't played Golden but I know about giving Adachi a social link and an ending where the protag instead allows Adachi to go.

Akechi feels like they wanted to pull off the same twist, but tries to imporve upon it. They gave him a social link that automatically progresses as the story does, but unlike Teddy he doesn't become playable until very late in the game. So that should tip some people off. Likewise, he's the only theif who is not in the original opening, making his inclusions stand out more. And whereas Adachi served to highlight the themes, Akechi instead serves to highlight what the Phantom Thieves could become in the bad ending. He betrays, we find out the truth, kick his ass, and then attempts to redeem himself though self-sacrifice. I honestly don't like how wishy-washy the series is with his survival unlike P3's protagonist.

Haven't played Royal yet though, but I'm going to now considering I realized the hadou thing. Really, I feel like P5 didn't click with me partially because of the hadou element even if I didn't recognize it.

not a fan of how EVERYONE acts like this exchange didn't exist

"Claude was right about Rhea and the church promoting isolationism"

okay, Frieza.

Oh my gosh, you're right! Claude's support with Flayn takes a turn for the worst when you remember the infodump at the end of Verdant Wind. Claude learns the real scope of Flayn's secrecy, and not once does he realize the immense danger he was putting her in by prying into her business. But then again, Claude himself should have known better than to try and pry into someone's business like that in the first place. He himself has a secret that can be a thread to his life if found out, surely he should understand that maybe Flayn herself is in a position like that, but he still insists on getting it out of her.

Really, for as much of a jerk as Balthus can be for blackmailing Claude with outing him, I can't help but side with Balthus just the tiniest bit for giving Claude a taste of his own medicine. Claude himself basically outed Flayn and the other two Nabateans at the end of Verdant Wind.

But I guess it shouldn't be too surprising that Claude let his curiosity turn him into a hypocrite, he already let it turn him into a jerk. His response to Byleth mourning for her dad is easily the worst of the three, even worse than Edelgard's.

"You may as well give me your dead father's diary nicely, otherwise I will just steal it. You crying or sum'? Use your sleeve to wipe out the tears, I don't know."

Claude really was an asshole, wasn't him.

Side Note: He congratulates Petra for thanking the spirits for proving for them, but mocks Leonie for thanking the goddess for providing for them. His bigotry against Fodlan is really showing. He truly is an almyran.

@pandp-author replied to your post “Just thinking about it but - UO : MC learns the...”:

@themoomoorn If it's not too much asking, what is it about Petra's support with Claude that you don't like? I'm rather curious.

​If I can jump in, for me it'd be this :

Petra : Harming Trees is bad because they have spirits and it's important, the tree gives us food and shelter but it also needs us. We live in harmony, all those things.

Clout : Ah yes, you're close to the nature, unlike those stupid Fodlan people who believe everything comes from their goddess and forgot nature.

Petra : Remember when I said Billy-sensei turning green looks like the spirits I am often talking about? And how the Fodlan Goddess basically made and created those spirits? - Who am I kidding, I can't tell you this, we're in a Fodlan game, you must always have a point and Church BaD.

Clout : Of course!

Clout : I mean, imagine if the Hresvelgs could trace their lineage to Saint Seiros herself, who is said to be, in her own scriptures, a Child of the Goddess aka not a human herself or at least a divine being. I'd look like an imbecile, right?

Also fun how "uwu nobility isn't a matter of birthright, status doesn't matter uwu" when the same guy tells to Cyril :

"nobility doesn't matter we're all equals uwu except when I could use my status to compel a random to do things he doesn't want to".

But back to the Petra support :

Clout : I've heard Hanneman say the same thing to Doro.

Petra : Wow you're so strange for saying those things! And you are a noble who can climb to trees! So weird!

Clout : Are we sure Caspar can't do the same? He knows how to pummel someone to death with his fists, maybe he'd also know how to climb trees or something, given how he didn't receive any education befitting a heir of a house, since his brother is the heir and he is naught but a spare. But hey, I'll totally call you strange because you are a princess of Brigid, nevermind the link I cannot tell you about between you being the princess of a foreign land and me.

Petra : But you know how to climb trees and take care of your equipment ! I'm so impressed, I've never seen any noble take care of his own stuff before. What is that? Ferdie oils his own weapons and armor? Who is that Ferdie you're talking about?

---

Granted, given how Petra was trashtalked by Hubert (or trash thought) when he first met her and was around the most, uh, decadent part of Adrestian Nobility, I can't fault her for thinking Claude climbing to trees and tending to his own bow is extraordinary - but I suppose if she ever went to see any BL what she finds "abornmal in Fodlan and totes only Adrestia because that's the only place she visited" wouldn't be so... abnormal.

my main ocs

Feather Shields and Bows for the win!

You're absolutely right they're ridiculous, and super fun to use! And also kind of game breaking... which goes to show that sometimes the only way to balance something is by limiting your access to it. Think of Quick Riposte in Three Houses.

I do appreciate that the game gives you the option to let yourself go to your desire for vengeance, because it does make it more meaningful to choose not to and then be rewarded with the good ending. It's cheesy, but I like it.

I adore the final battle for the fact that everyone is coming together to defeat the big bad boss, even the zenorian people.

My final squad was Alain, Lex, Chloe, Scarlet, and Clive!

Despite still standing on the hill of Gryphon Knights being the best class, I ended up using Liza a hell of a lot. Arbalist/Shield shooters are jack of all trades, but rather than being average in what they do, they do everything competently enough that they are something greater than their sums of their parts.

I do need to make a NG+ run, I was terrible with managing my money, equipment, everything! It was straight up impossible to unlock all raptors and I think I was handicapping myself trying to get them all in a single playthrough. I'm having similar troubles on my first Engage run, and I did not have any of these issues in Three House because I was able to internalize from the very beginning That I couldn't get all the supports. The things I do to myself...

At the end of the day... I'll say my favorite character is Clive. He's my best boi.

What about yours?

WDYM only Alain can get the killing blow on Baltro???

TFW the Tricorns keep on whacking him to no avail, ditto with Magellan :(

even if plot wise it makes sense

@pandp-author Feathershields are absolutely ridiculous lol, Fodoquir basically exists and makes mage teams/teams where Sorceress try their "surprise you're frozen !" combo completely meaningless !

Sanatio's healing is completely stupid too lol, too bad we can't play more maps with the angels/feathered people, because they're fun to use!

I'll make a more detailed post about the epilogue later but plot wise for the final chapter, as expected, Gharnef Baltro backstabs the Red Emperor, it is revealed Ilenia - Alain's mom - survived in the prologue, but Red Emperor Galerius Galvius when defeated body/soul hopped on hers so she became his unwilling medium (which raises all sorts of questions here, when Alain kills Galvius during the "Rescue Scarlett" mission, did he aleady kill Ilenia and Baltro resurrected her, but she's somehow still alive and not a zombie?) but ultimately she is free when Baltro uses Galvius' soul to open the "gate to the netherworld" or something, to use the souls of the Zenoiran currently in limbo as fuel for his spells.

Given how Baltro notes that the Cornian Royal fam has the blood of the Maiden who survived the sacrifice of the Unicorn and its curse 800 years ago, I guess he implies that is the reason why Ilenia makes for a better host than the random Valmore - the previous human who was Galvius' host - but then it raises the question of Giethe hunting Virginia : wouldn't she have been used as a spare ? Granted, given how Galvius incarnates in the flesh of people who defeat him, the only way to incarnate in Virginia would be for either her or a random to kill Galvius while he's using Ilenia's body (and Virginia would later kill the random).

So I guess if Giethe brought her head Baltro would have been "you dumb fuck", but Alcina's plan to uwu with Gerard in Alain's body wouldn't put a dent in his plans, since he could get rid of Gerard in Alain's body to put Galvius instead if needed.

As cheesy as it was, I liked how the plot unfolded here - despite his "perfect lord" appearances, Alain still wants revenge for his mom and didn't forget what happened 10 years ago : if the player chooses to give Alain his vengeance, despite learning the plot and the truth about Zenoira, he... actually kills his mother, and Baltro is still Baltroing around.

If he acts as the better person and the "saviour", he tries to offer mercy to Galvius, despite him killing his mother and plunging the continent in a sea of blood, which gives Baltro the occasion and opportunity to betray Galvius, thus freeing Ilenia without killing her, and it gives the party the occasion to kill/banish him to oblivion instead.

The usual "follow the plot = you're rewarded + vengeance is meaningless" trope.

Of course I can't talk about the final map without ranting about the green NPCs that are here to "help" you - nice nod to have them be Drakengardians to echo Gilbert's earlier (at the end of arc 2!) words of sending Drakengard's help to help Cornia when it will be needed - sure his help is green units + Hermann (one of his retainer that is blue this playable \o/) but it's a nice nod to the former plot and you can honeypot about the political ramifications of this move (the Liberation Army led by the Cornian prince helped free Drakengard, so now the Drakengard Army will help the Cornian prince to free his country?).

No such lines about the enemy Bestrals - who as Bestrals can't be soul snatched - who are recruited by Dyna who basically tells them "wtf dudes stop fighting with them and join us instead!" but I confess I laughed at their names (il y en a qui s'appelle Paulo mdr, pourquoi pas Bébert pendant qu'on y est?).

Too bad the named minibosses aren't more developped, but I wonder if in the Norbelle aka worst ending we get to fight Reimann and pals instead.

Oh well, I'll have other occasions to replay that map to get the different endings - at least the normal one on this PT (the one where Alain kills Galvius but fights off the possession thanks to his magical plot ring that resonates with the plot ring of his partner).