That's The Thing I Think A Lot Of People Miss, Or Intentionally Leave Out, When It Comes To The Outcome

That's the thing I think a lot of people miss, or intentionally leave out, when it comes to the outcome of the war of the Eagle and Lion. Rhea's interference was ultimately for the EMPIRE'S benefit.

Remember, Rhea only intervened in the aftermath, except she didn't intervene as much as she was brough along, and she only brough along after the to be kingdom WON. After Loog WON. When you take that into consideration, it would be more likely that Rhea tried to convince Loog into accepting his victory without asking or taking much more from the empire, because honestly, what was stopping Loog from keep going and rename the entirety of Fodlan into the kingdom of Faerghus? His sense of honor? Not that the empire would understand...

WHY Loog needed the church to recognize the newly founded kingdom's sovereignty is a topic for another conversation, but it doesn't change the fact that it was the better outcome, because otherwise Faerghus would've steamrolled the empire until every fighting man died, as they already proved they were too much for Adrestia by beating their asses and then go to the church to make it official to further rub it on their loser faces.

But the empire, and specially the fandom, doesn't understand this. Instead, they view it as one of the reasons why they resent the church, resent Rhea, so much. They probably thought Rhea should've come up and tell Faerghus that their victory doesn't count or something, getting angry at her for conceding, even though they couldn't have done anything about it because they just lost. If they didn't want Rhea to "divide the masses to make them bicker among themselves", the empire should've thought of that before losing the rebellion.

In fact, if they didn't want a rebellion in the first place, the empire should've thought of that before severely mistreating the people of the north.

For ME one of the craziest takes I've seen float around is that Rhea Bad for helping Loog and Faerghus as a whole gain independence from Adrestia because Wilhelm Existed. Like, just because Rhea was Wilhelm's friend and Adrestia was close to the Church, fuck Faerghus' freedom. That's so fucking wild???

Wot? That's a take? Fr? On Sothis?

Was she supposed to not mediate the situation and let Faerghus steamroll the Empire or something? Was she supposed to side with the empire when she only had the KoS and Faerghus had a shit ton relics?

For Wilhelm my ass. That dude gave up ruling before he died lmao.

“I wish you were someone whose heart could be swayed by my words and deeds. If it were so, I would have done anything to make you my ally...”

"You are attacking the monastery; you're employing demonic beasts. You almost had your own classmates killed. My father is dead because of you. The closest thing I had to a home village was destroyed by the people you're working with and can't keep in check. You facilitated Flayn's kidnaping. The same people tried to assassinate Rhea *again*, attacked the students, and raided the Mausoleum, and it's all but a given that you orchestrated the bandit attack to have Dimitri and Claude killed. I am indeed someone whose heart was swayed by your words and deeds, Edelgard. What you don't seem to realize is that you've done everything to make me your enemy."

All you have to do is let Edelgard talk and she will eventually just tell on herself.

I have to wonder if she's actually incapable of keeping quiet, or if her lack of self-awareness is a condition of some sort.

This scene perfectly encapsulates some edelstands' mindset of just reading the scrip to "understand" the game, because it allows them more easily take Edelgard at her word, despite all the onscreen proof that show her as being a terrible person, such as the deployment of demonic beasts.

Considering the localization choices I found over the last couple of days, I can understand why certain fans thought Treehouse hated Edelgard. Because, yes, the game does make her come off a lot more harshly than she does in the Japanese. That the English version primes the player from the onset to view her as arrogant and distant, rather than a typical noble girl like the Japanese makes her out to be. But as a result of this the Flame Emperor reveal, the game's main twist, doesn't have the same impact it was supposed to. Rather than the reveal of Edelgard, who was initially the least suspect lord, being the masked person aiding the villains we've been fighting, it comes across more like it was expected that would be the case.

Instead, fans take Edelgard's cute side as the suprise. “Yeah, I know she did all that awful stuff in Part 1, but Part 2 shows that she's not that bad.” The translation flipped Edelgard's gap moe.

However, this also kills the argument that the translators hated her.

For instance, if she fights Byleth at the end of Part 1 she says “I wish you were someone whose heart could be swayed by my words and deeds. If it were so, I would have done anything to make you my ally...” In the Japanese however? “I wish you were the kind of person who could be moved by my words and actions. So I did whatever I could to get you on my side...” The Japanese version flat out confirms that Edelgard was trying to manipulate Byleth, but got erased and made out that she didn't really do anything of the sort. Likewise, mention of her using an information campaign to sway the citizens of the Empire who are opposed to this war, or that Edelgard is really puppeteering TWSITD are removed. Her route even has it's named changed, the symbolism of the safflower replaced with that of a red rose. And on top of that, the ending of her route tries to tone down the final smack in the face to the player. Gone is Edelgard consolidating power on herself to impose her will, alongside her admitting she has been waling the path of supremacy (hadou) which holds very negative implications, and the endings try to make it out that she did work to bring freedom to the people rather than simply imposing her will on them. Oh, and Caspar invading other countries while unable to control the Imperial army? He's merely sometimes reckless, whereas he has “victims” in the other routes. It wants to make it out that your influence prevented her from becoming a monster, rather than her influence turning you into one, putting her in the same camp as Dimitri and Claude.

Meanwhile, the translation makes the Church out to be in the wrong with the Rhea ending saying she rehabilitated the Church, and Seteth's solo making it out that he was intolerant towards other faiths before rather than him taking the stick out of his ass.

The translation mischaracterized Edelgard completely, making her harsher in the beginning but softening her up in the end. It destroyed the twist and message of the game, as supporting a lying tyrant is just a manner or being morally grey when the original game it was supposed to become clear that the player was played and became the baddie by their own choice. It even goes so far as to try to tell players her ideals are close to Claude's when her line was that she doesn't think their ideals are the same, making her more compatible to the lords who don't invade other nations following the war.

The game was meant to condemn Edelgard as a villain, yet the translation just shrugged off her actions and went “moral ambiguity, am I right?”

Oh my gosh, you're right! Claude's support with Flayn takes a turn for the worst when you remember the infodump at the end of Verdant Wind. Claude learns the real scope of Flayn's secrecy, and not once does he realize the immense danger he was putting her in by prying into her business. But then again, Claude himself should have known better than to try and pry into someone's business like that in the first place. He himself has a secret that can be a thread to his life if found out, surely he should understand that maybe Flayn herself is in a position like that, but he still insists on getting it out of her.

Really, for as much of a jerk as Balthus can be for blackmailing Claude with outing him, I can't help but side with Balthus just the tiniest bit for giving Claude a taste of his own medicine. Claude himself basically outed Flayn and the other two Nabateans at the end of Verdant Wind.

But I guess it shouldn't be too surprising that Claude let his curiosity turn him into a hypocrite, he already let it turn him into a jerk. His response to Byleth mourning for her dad is easily the worst of the three, even worse than Edelgard's.

"You may as well give me your dead father's diary nicely, otherwise I will just steal it. You crying or sum'? Use your sleeve to wipe out the tears, I don't know."

Claude really was an asshole, wasn't him.

Side Note: He congratulates Petra for thanking the spirits for proving for them, but mocks Leonie for thanking the goddess for providing for them. His bigotry against Fodlan is really showing. He truly is an almyran.

@pandp-author replied to your post “Just thinking about it but - UO : MC learns the...”:

@themoomoorn If it's not too much asking, what is it about Petra's support with Claude that you don't like? I'm rather curious.

​If I can jump in, for me it'd be this :

Petra : Harming Trees is bad because they have spirits and it's important, the tree gives us food and shelter but it also needs us. We live in harmony, all those things.

Clout : Ah yes, you're close to the nature, unlike those stupid Fodlan people who believe everything comes from their goddess and forgot nature.

Petra : Remember when I said Billy-sensei turning green looks like the spirits I am often talking about? And how the Fodlan Goddess basically made and created those spirits? - Who am I kidding, I can't tell you this, we're in a Fodlan game, you must always have a point and Church BaD.

Clout : Of course!

Clout : I mean, imagine if the Hresvelgs could trace their lineage to Saint Seiros herself, who is said to be, in her own scriptures, a Child of the Goddess aka not a human herself or at least a divine being. I'd look like an imbecile, right?

Also fun how "uwu nobility isn't a matter of birthright, status doesn't matter uwu" when the same guy tells to Cyril :

"nobility doesn't matter we're all equals uwu except when I could use my status to compel a random to do things he doesn't want to".

But back to the Petra support :

Clout : I've heard Hanneman say the same thing to Doro.

Petra : Wow you're so strange for saying those things! And you are a noble who can climb to trees! So weird!

Clout : Are we sure Caspar can't do the same? He knows how to pummel someone to death with his fists, maybe he'd also know how to climb trees or something, given how he didn't receive any education befitting a heir of a house, since his brother is the heir and he is naught but a spare. But hey, I'll totally call you strange because you are a princess of Brigid, nevermind the link I cannot tell you about between you being the princess of a foreign land and me.

Petra : But you know how to climb trees and take care of your equipment ! I'm so impressed, I've never seen any noble take care of his own stuff before. What is that? Ferdie oils his own weapons and armor? Who is that Ferdie you're talking about?

---

Granted, given how Petra was trashtalked by Hubert (or trash thought) when he first met her and was around the most, uh, decadent part of Adrestian Nobility, I can't fault her for thinking Claude climbing to trees and tending to his own bow is extraordinary - but I suppose if she ever went to see any BL what she finds "abornmal in Fodlan and totes only Adrestia because that's the only place she visited" wouldn't be so... abnormal.

So, I said I was going to talk about this and here I am. Edelgard's death scenes, Japanese vs English script. First off, let us remember the translation we were given. Quote:

“It looks as though... my path...will end here. My teacher... claim your victory. Strike me down. You must! Even now... across this land, people are killing each other. If you do not act now, this conflict will go on forever. Your path... lies across my grave. It is time for you to find the courage to walk it. If I must fall... let it be by your hand. I wanted... to walk with you...”

Now the Japanese, using Wordvice as my translator.

“My path is... Is it going to end here...? Master... The duty of the victor... Defeat me, Master...! Even now... Many people are still fighting and killing each other in various places... Unless you defeat me, the battle... will not end... Your... Your path... Can only be found beyond my corpse... So, at the very least... With your own hands...! Together, we will... Walk, and...”

First of all, Edelgard is surprised she lost in the Japanese text. She expected that she would win.

Secondly, she uses the same duty of the victor line we see in Hubert's letter, which combined with her telling Byleth to kill her. The word she uses for defeating her, I've had other translators say it was her telling Byleth to avenge her. If we take “duty of the victor,” which will be soon used for taking down TWSITD and later Byleth taking ruling over Fodlan in order to prevent it's collapse, it ties her words together more. Killing Edelgard and going on to defeat TWSITD and then being crown ruler is Byleth's path, and unless Byleth goes down this path Fodlan will never know peace. If Edelgard lives, she'll try this again. If TWSITD get away, they'll try it again. And if Byleth doesn't accept the crown, then Fodlan will fall into chaos causing the people to suffer.

Then there's the last line, Edelgard will let herself be killed by Byleth and this will be them walking the same path together. Edelgard accepts that her death will help Byleth end the suffering that's happening, and with this they'll work towards the same goal. This is not her expressing sadness Byleth didn't support her or how she can't join Byleth.

I mean, she could still try to side with Byleth, live and make amends, but as she's saying this all she's activating her weapon. It would tie into her not having the self-control needed to accept her loss and live, and how she'd keep going until she either dies or wins.

But what gets me is that this same scene happens in Wind, not just Snow. Is it just a lazy reusing of the scene? Maybe, I feel it could also be calling out the similarities between those routes. The Alliance is the underdog in the war, to the point that Claude points out that the Empire would not accept losing to them, foreshadowing the loyalist movement mentioned in the route's endings. Byleth's conversation with Claude about not wanting to kill Edelgard the same as the one with Seteth, putting the onus on Edelgard whether they will walk a path together or not.

Edelgard does not in the Japanese version, though chooses to die.

It would set up a contrast between Claude and Edelgard as well. Claude's first impressions of the Church weren't good, and he wouldn't fight alongside them in Snow leading to his defeat. In Wind, Claude goes against his instincts and works with them instead, putting the trust in them that Edelgard says she never could with Rhea in the Japanese text. It marks Claude walking the path of enlightenment himself alongside Byleth, while Edelgard walks the path of the animal (with Claude joining her in Hopes). It sets up that Claude and Edelgard's beliefs, their ideals, are different as well much like how Edelgard pointed out in the Japanese version.

But I think that's the core of why this scene happens, Edelgard's ideals. Edelgard believes that relying on others teaches people to be weak, and the Church is bad because it's beliefs encourage people to not rely on themselves and even does charity. Edelgard did what she did, and helped TWSITD, because she believed that doing so would give her the strength needed to change Fodlan into what she believed it should be. The Japanese theme, that plays it's full version at the end of every route bar Flower, does mention she hesitated to go through with the war, due to her time at Garreg Mach regardless of route by implication, before finally deciding to do so. Yet despite all the horrible things Edelgard has done for the power she's accumulated, Edelgard is defeated either by the Church itself, with no real army except for those who supported them, or the Church aligned with the weakest army.

The meek shall inherit the Earth perhaps?

She was forced in that moment, facing a loss she can't believe is happening, to see that everything she has done up until this point has been for nothing. Her ideals fucking lost to the beliefs she damned.

In contrast, look at Moon. Dimitri was able to take back the Kingdom territory she had conquered, force her army out of the Alliance while at the same time killing her ally. And as the territory Dimitri controlled increased, so too did the size of his army whereas Edelgard's army was exhausted following Gronder. Edelgard is now facing half of Fodlan's might on her own while her own forces are diminishing.

So, she throws away her humanity in exchange for power, becoming the Hegemon Husk. And with that Edelgard loses what self-control she had. Dimitri offers her his hand, she instead tries to kill him. No accepting of her death, no duty of the victor, no joining hands to walk the same path. Just her wordlessly making one last attempt to win. The end, as Dimitri puts it, of Edelgard's path sees her come a beast. Hell, the Japanese name for Hegemon Husk is Hegemony Corpse Emperor, making it seem that who Edelgard was is now dead (just like her being brainwashed in Hopes when it shows up now that I think about it).

(I love how France puts it, Shadow of the Conqueror).

In the animal realm, the weak fear the strong who prey upon them. Edelgard was afraid at the end of Moon, plain and simple, and that fear stole away the last of her humanity.

Even with the parley, she says she showed because of a whim. She did it on an impulse, and it's clear from it that she really hasn't thought through her ideals at all. She'll blame the weak if her ideals don't work, and she has no idea what shape her reforms will take. All she's focusing on is increasing her own power, so that she may become strong herself. It's why she's pleased when Dimitri calls her such, acknowledging her strength. Edelgard doesn't think things through, much like what happened with hiring Kostas. Meanwhile, it's Dimitri who points out the flaws in her ideals as well as what Hopes!Claude plans to do. And it's Dimitri who cares about the sacrifices she is making, whereas all Edelgard cares about is her goal.

Dimitri's humanity is what turned him into the boar tearing enemies apart, but when he's freed of his misconceptions about his duties as a leader it leads to him being the savior king. Meanwhile, this route sees Edelgard lose hers making it so that she can't have the last minute realization and acceptance Snow and Wind afforded her. No redemption for Edelgard in Moon.

Meanwhile, Flower encourages her to keep doing what she's been doing because it fucking works. This is where the translation changed things, making it so the player could redeem Edelgard here rather than in Snow or Wind. To have her change her ideals somewhat, while toning down her manipulating her allies. It gives her no reason to change, so she does not and will go on to implement her ideals even if she had the appearance of growing out of them.

That's just the thing with Rhea in these godforsaken games.

They could've just added extra dialogue of Rhea giving her blessings just this one to use the hero's relic. To showcase that her feelings matter for once, especially when it comes to things that relate directly to her family.

But Rhea is just being denied by the game of this. She's just denied of everything by everyone.

Just look at how edelstands denied her of her anger, trying to say that she overreacted in the Holy Tomb, shitting on her for it and using that moment as proof that she shouldn't rule over Fodlan (even though she doesn't rule over Fodlan) and they minimize all the shit Edelgard has done up until that point to further sell the point that Rhea overreacted, doubling as a poor defense against Edelgard critiques to boot.

@zeroabyss replied to your post “Just thinking about it but - UO : MC learns the...”:

Using the relics is a Necessary Evil. Rhea herself isn’t complaining about doing so either. If it saves the day and they can help destroy Nemesis instead of helping his reign, that’d even be some positive to her to come out of the atrocity that created them. Just wanted to give my two cents on only that. The rest is valid.

​TBF that's what I was sort of ranting against, Rhea isn't complaining and we infer that she allows the Relic's use in this situation because it's Nemesis they're dealing with, and they need their power.

But it's not tackled in the game, we don't have Claude, in the light of this reveal, tell her that maybe he should let that Nabatean alone and doesn't want to use this bow anymore, where Rhea would tell him it's okay just for this once, because bro/sis who became Failnaught would surely have wanted to lend their power to defeat Nemesis and his Elites.

It's just, nowhere so while we can suppose a lot of things happen "off-screen", objective fact is, in the game without any indication like a NPC telling us they talked about it or something, the reveal about the Nabateans and the Relics amounts to nothing for the characters.

Like, with or without Rhea's infodump about the Relics, nothing about the upcoming fight would have changed, Nemesis is storming against the Monastery to do Nemesis things so Claude'n'pals have to kill him "again".

What was the point of that infodump? What kind of consequences does it have? Is it even closing a character arc?

:/

my main ocs