I've Been Re-watching Hotd And On Ep 6, When Harwin And His Father Is Killed In A Fire Started By Harwin's

I've been re-watching hotd and on ep 6, when Harwin and his father is killed in a fire started by Harwin's brother, Alicent acts shocked????

"I did not wish for this."

Didn't she spend 10+ years spreading rumors of Rhae's kids being "bastards" (with it possibly causing all their + rhae's deaths) ?????

And with the rumors (caused by her) and her stating that Aegon would be king????

Its funny how she is all "I didn't wish for this" while flashing her doe eyes as if she wasn't the one spouting rumors lmao while everybody (including THE KING) just did not care and claimed them!!!!

Alicent, even when her faction has staged a coup, will never accept responsibility for her actions. She always shuffles the blame off to a man or Rhaenyra. The interesting thing is, she'll blame the men around her for everything (some of which is right let's be real) but still continues to serve them. Meanwhile she despises Rhaenyra for being willing to rebel against men's expectations and blames her for Alicent's own choices.

In the situation with Larys murdering Lyonel and Harwin, the blame is on both Alicent and Larys, but Alicent's rejection of that culpability is ridiculous. Sure, she didn't outright say she wanted Larys to kill his family, but she did spend a decade complaining about Lyonel's actions as Hand and bitching about Harwin and Rhaenyra's relationship.

Both Alicent and Larys knew that Viserys wasn't about to get rid of a Hand who is politically savvy and respects his wishes (unlike some people) and they knew Lyonel wasn't going to step down anytime soon. They also knew that, while Lyonel was sending Harwin away for a time, that probably wouldn't keep him separated from Rhaenyra or the capital forever. Death was the only option that would actually give Alicent what she wanted.

Larys literally asked her if she wanted him to ensure her father's return to court. She's been working with him for a decade, how is she still surprised by his methods? Also how is Larys' kinslaying more deplorable than literally anything Rhaenyra has done? Yet Alicent continues to employ and give sexual favors to Larys while simultaneously condemning Rhaenyra for having extramarital sex with the consent of her husband.

Alicent was the only person who cared about who was the father of Rhaenyra's children other than Vaemond, who only cared because he wanted Driftmark. Viserys told her repeatedly to let it go, Laenor claimed the boys happily, Corlys named Lucerys his heir after Laenor's disappearance. No one in the fucking realm cared, as we see when the Dance begins; most of the realm supported Rhaenyra and the ones who didn't were only against her because of her gender and bribes from the greens. Alicent is just a bitter woman who can't stand to see a woman fight against the system she willfully upholds while simultaneously rejecting any guilt of her own actions.

It's interesting that Helaena so far hasn't shown any signs of being attached to Alicent like "oh I can't leave my mother, she is everything for me etc " I see this in Aemond and even in Aegon but not in Helaena she seems to be more into herself and her children, TG has this fantasy that they are a family that protects and loves each other lol and as I think that Helaena's children are the only happiness she perhaps has, it would be interesting if she blamed Alicent for her eldest's death resulting in Alicent feeling guilty about the decisions she accepted, I can see Alicent making that crying face she always makes when B&C happens

alicent: " Who knew that every action has a reaction?!"

TG stans are so delusional, they paint their favs as perfect and united. They claim Aegon is a better father than Viserys, when he pays no attention to his children and rapes their nursemaids. They harp about how loyal Aemond is to his family, when Aemond wanted to take the throne from Aegon (not that it was his in the first place). They ignore how emotionally and even physically abusive Alicent is to her children, as well as the fact that she's constantly endangering them.

Helaena, in both the show and the book, has very little personality or impact on the plot. There's honestly nothing given away in the book about how she feels about her family, other than the fact that she didn't want to marry Aegon. The show adds a bit, but she still doesn't have depth or much personality.

It is interesting how both Aegon and Aemond have moments where they express their feelings about their parents but Helaena has nothing. Like I said, she has nothing to her character except bugs, visions, and autistic behaviors.

What little interactions she has with Alicent are just her saying something cryptic and recoiling from Alicent's touch. Alicent seems to only view Helaena as an extension of her own victim complex and Helaena doesn't seem to care that much about her mother at all. Helaena loves her children and is somewhat close to Aemond, that's literally all the family ties we see.

I do think that in the book Helaena blamed Alicent to an extent. Especially since Alicent was the head of the green faction, she and Aemond were the reasons why B&C happened. That fact is still true in the show, with the exception that Otto is also thrown into the mix. So I agree that Helaena might end up blaming Alicent. Although given how the show is written, I'm a little hesitant.

not TG stans saying that the influence of the faith of the seven would be good for the iron throne because the practice of incest would end these stans truly believe that the hightowers would be the salvation of house targaryen

Do they realize that cousin incest is still allowed by the Faith? And do they realize that first cousin incest still counts as incest? I also don't think they realize that the Faith is meant to be a criticism of the real world Catholic Church.

The Faith believe that being gay, having premarital sex, being a non-conforming woman, following another religion, and magic are sins and in some cases are punishable by death. The Faith controlling Westeros will not help it or the people in any way.

Throughout F&B we see Martin critize the Faith and its septons. They are corrupt and power hungry, who don't actually care about the people (the majority of the septons anyway).

Now I'm not saying that everyone who follows the Faith is evil or bad. I'm not even saying the Faith is all bad, after all they believe slavery is an abomination (which it is). What I'm saying is that it taking over the realm will not be a good thing. Let's not forget that they tried to outlaw worship of the Old Gods and the Drowned God, so there'd be war if the Faith controlled the throne.

Thr Hightower stans that infect this fandom just believe that because the Faith is closely associated with the Hightowers, it must be good because their favs are just perfect. It's a massive plus that the Faith militant marched against the Targaryens at one point. But they forget that the Faith is disliked by the Starks and most of the North (these stans usually are also Stark stans).

The Faith is not going to "fix" the realm or the Targaryens, and wanting the Targaryens to conform to it is asking them to abandon what's left of their heritage. Westeros doesn't need to become a theocracy or make the Faith it's state religion, that goes for all the other religions of ASOIAF. GRRM is an atheist, he isn't going to turn his books into propaganda for a fictional Catholic church. It takes a lot of willful ingnorance and lack of media comprehension to think the Faith will fix anything.

Listen, Cersei is a bad politician and makes decisions that are incredibly counterproductive to the Lannister and incredibly funny sometimes but holy shit putting Rubies (Rhaegar's symbolic gemstone) with her black "grieving" gown, which would essentially be her wearing Targaryen colors, for Robert after his death was such a fucking move.

Bravo, 10 out 10, nothing to say here,probably my favorite thing she ever does. This was the correct and only choice she could have made in this moment.

It's so petty and Robert frankly deserves it.

The one and only reason ppl support the greens is because they think Aemond and Aegon are hot, that’s it. They spout off the greens problematic rhetoric, scramble to find other reasons to support the greens, and trash rhaenyra and the blacks in an attempt to pretend like they actually have some substance and as justification for liking Aemond and Aegon. (Bc you apparently can’t just think a villain is hot without also adopting their every single problematic belief as your own). Nothing on this planet can convince me “support for the greens” is anything more than “I think Aemond and Aegon are hot” and I will die on this hill

So true, people wouldn't jump to defend Aegon or Aemond nearly as quickly if they weren't played by conventionally attractive men. You can totally see it in how defensive they get over how Aegon is described in the book and how obsessed they are with calling Rhaenyra and Emma D'Arcy ugly.

But it extends beyond the male members of TG. As the lovely @lizzie-queenofmeigas said in this post, a lot of Alicent's appeal to her stans comes from her victim aesthetic. A big part of that is Emily Carey and Olivia Cooke's attractiveness.

TG stans are disproportionately obsessed with looks, whether it's how pretty/hot their favs are or how "ugly" TB is or the Velaryon boys' unvalyrian features. They love their favs looks and aesthetics so they'll defend almost anything they do, or they'll use those looks as an excuse for loving/hating a character.

Dany Paradox, Part II

I have previously elaborated on the phenomenon I call the “Dany Paradox”, whereby in the asoiaf fandom, Daenerys is both damned for doing one thing and damned for doing another. I believe there is another aspect to this phenomenon as well, whereby things that are actually specific to Dany’s arc, or Dany’s achievements, or aspects of Dany’s character, are deliberately reversed. 

In canon, Daenerys is humble, has simplistic desires, and longs for a peaceful life. Her heart is in conflict because she sees reclaiming the throne as a duty, but her actual want is to settle down, get married, and have a family, in a house with a red door and a lemon tree. 

In fanon, Daenerys is narcissistic, power hungry, and entitled, a girlboss with flattened emotions or pure arrogance, hedonistic and luxurious and attracted to symbols of power. 

In canon, Daenerys is self-aware, able to criticize herself, reflective, inquisitive, and learns lessons from experience, and is often quite self-deprecating. 

In fanon, Daenerys does not learn from her mistakes, does not reflect on her experiences or failures, cannot identify her own flaws, looks away from problems, and does not ask or answer tough questions. 

In canon, Daenerys believes in enacting justice, that a queen must belong to her realm and people before herself, sacrifices her personal desires for the sake of her people, delays her Westerosi campaign twice for the sake of her anti-slavery campaign, stays to rule Meereen against the advice of her councilors who urge her to return to Westeros, rejects ships to return to Westeros, and rejects a Westerosi marriage offer in favor of a Meereneese marriage.

In fanon, Daenerys is singlemindedly intent on reclaiming the Iron Throne, prioritizes it above all else, is demanding and believes she is owed loyalty from Westeros, and doesn’t care about her people. 

In canon, Daenerys frees slaves because she is genuinely against slavery. She frees her Khalasar before birthing her dragons, she frees the Unsullied because she can’t stand what’s done to them, she marches to Yunkai to free the bedslaves and redistribute the wealth of the slavers, and she frees the Meereneese slaves and stays to rule Meereen to stabilize it for the freedmen. She is vehemently anti-slavery. She pays The Unsullied and refuses to compensate slaveowners for loss of revenue. 

In fanon, Daenerys is a slaver who still owns her handmaids and treats them like slaves, who treats Missandei like a slave, who only freed The Unsullied to gain an army, who is profiting from slavery in Meereen, who is considered to be a “known slaver”, who doesn’t understand why slavery is wrong/isn’t against slavery from a moral standpoint. 

In canon, Daenerys is a victim of and survivor of marital/sexual slavery, rape, physical, verbal, & sexual abuse from a family member, sexual assault from an older man, violent sexualized threats and threat of re-enslavement, multiple brutal assassination attempts from men, and is slut-shamed and body-shamed by various men, both who slut-shame her directly and who objectify her when they talk about her. 

In fanon, Daenerys is a rapist and is accused of raping Drogo and Irri, who hates rape victims (because she executes Mirri), who doesn’t understand the plight of rape victims and isn’t against rape from a moral standpoint.

In canon, Daenerys actively attempts to abolish and fight against rape and slavery from the first book itself, and it is the cornerstone of her political arc. 

In fanon, Daenerys makes life worse for rape victims and slaves. 

In canon, Daenerys is hailed as a mother by the slaves and freedmen and is despised by the slavers and slaveowning nobles. 

In fanon, Daenerys is despised by the slaves and slavers alike. 

In canon, Daenerys is a capable military strategist and commander, despite her lack of formal training. 

In fanon, Daenerys is a naive little girl who cannot command armies or hold a city. 

In canon, Daenerys enjoys reading, loves history, songs, and poems, asks questions, seeks to learn from countless people of diverse background, and is whimsical, funny, and charming. 

In fanon, Daenerys is uncultured, sullen, unfunny, and apparently emotionless. 

In canon, Daenerys is extremely caring, generous, and self-sacrificing. She is affectionate, cradles Missandei and cuddles her dragons and kisses Barristan and calls Irri “sweetling”, she is full of love and is always dreaming of love and home, she wants a true family and longs for companionship, cares for Strong Belwas’ wound and for the sick refugees, cares about children, cries and wants to cry at the thought of harm befalling her people, saves Tyrion and Penny from lions, and more. 

In fanon, Daenerys is selfish, has a god complex, is Machiavellian, and does not truly care for anyone except herself. 

In canon, Daenerys is a politician, engaging in statecraft, trade, diplomacy, managing an influx of refugees, fighting a war, hosting Court and military councils, entertaining guests, passing taxes and laws, finding new sources of revenue. 

In fanon, Daenerys is bad at politics and does not understand statecraft and isn’t the “taxes” kind of queen. 

In canon, Daenerys plants trees in Vaes Tolorro and Meereen, expresses a desire to plant trees, is disparaged for planting trees by the Kingmakers of Aegon VI Targaryen, has been feeding her people since AGOT onward, is conscious of food wastage, stays in Meereen to rebuild its economy and bring peace to the city, says she does not want to reduce King’s Landing to blackened ashes or shed the blood of the innocent. 

In fanon, Daenerys does not feed people, does not plant trees, is incapable of creating life, is not a builder or able to rebuild, is not peaceful, relishes in violence and bloodshed, will burn down King’s Landing, will slaughter villages and cities of innocents. 

In canon, despite being infertile, Daenerys is a mother to dragons and a mother to thousands of slaves and freedmen. 

In fanon, Dany is a bad mother to dragons, the dragons aren’t really her children, and the slaves/freedmen hate her or will betray her. 

In canon, Daenerys is feminine, if unconventionally feminine. She is a proto-feminist. 

In fanon, Daenerys is either treated as a dumb, naive little girl or as a hardy, masculine woman who doesn’t understand the plight of women. 

In canon, while Dany does have a fierce temper, a dragon’s temper if you will, and has engaged in ruthlessness, she also feels guilt, is capable of showing mercy and forgiveness, and does not like violence or death. 

In fanon, Dany is angry all the time and incapable of forgiveness. 

In canon, Dany trusts people but also knows not to blindly trust anyone. She says that a queen must listen to all voices and this is reflected on her political and military councils, both of which are composed of diverse groups of people. She takes advice from multiple sources. 

In fanon, Dany is paranoid and cannot trust anyone. 

In canon, Dany believes in magic and prophecy but also takes prophecy with a grain of salt, downplays her own effect on the resurgence of magic in the world, and does not put stock in prophecy being self-fulfilling, rather, she actively forges her own destiny through her conscious decisions. 

In fanon, Dany relies too much on prophecy or centers her life around it. 

In canon, Dany does not use her dragons that much to win battles. 

In fanon, Dany overly relies on her dragons and her story is dependent on them. 

In canon, Dany goes through immense hardship––a childhood of exile and poverty and displacement, marital rape, abandonment, loss of family, miscarriage, betrayal, and assassination threats. 

In fanon, Dany gets “everything handed to her” and “easily climbs to power”. She “doesn’t understand the hard life” or what the smallfolk and slaves go through. 

In canon, Dany speaks multiple languages, practices two major religions, has lived in a variety of cities and regions with extremely different cultures and customs and rituals, adapts very easily to the culture of any place she’s staying in, is friends and allies with people of different ethnic and cultural backgrounds, her people all come from different cultural backgrounds, transcends national boundaries because of her displacement and her upbringing, and feels at home in crowds of diverse people. 

In fanon, Dany is a racist, is not multicultural, and does not respect different cultures. 

In canon, Dany rejects the offer of an alliance with the slaver-imperialist nexus, initiates an anti-slavery revolt rather than joining the nexus for profit, leaves Astapor to be ruled by a council of Native Astapori freedmen (that yes is overthrown), oversees the Yunkish slaves (freedmen) redistributing the wealth of their former slaveowners, only ever wanted to rule Meereen temporarily and says as much because she expects them to rule themselves after she stabilizes it, militarily arms, trains, and empowers the freedmen so that they can fight for themselves, takes responsibility for feeding and sheltering the 80,000 freedmen who follow her from Astapor to Meereen rather than abandoning them or making them labor for her in return for food and shelter, the Unsullied participate in the revolution in Astapor and free themselves, and the slaves of the Meereneese fighting pits lead the revolution to conquer Meereen and free its slaves, Dany has individual freedmen and groups of freedmen represented on her Meereneese council (who are the voices of the slaves and freedmen in Slaver’s Bay), the slaves of Volantis support Dany and want her to initiate a slave revolt in Volantis, and the Red Priests of R’hllor (who are all slaves) and their followers preach daily that Dany is Azor Ahai and that she must be supported. Slavery is not a racial institution. 

In fanon, Dany is a colonizer and imperialist who imposes her Western values onto the Ghiscari nobility and who does not allow the slaves to fight for themselves and does not understand what they want. In fanon, slavery is a racial institution. 

This is an incredibly egregious way of reading the text when it comes to one of the major characters of the series, and it’s quite frankly embarrassing and pathetic that the asoiaf fandom continues to let this extremel level of misinterpretation persist.