I Must Be The Minority Of The Minority Here But God... HOTD Is A Mediocre Adaptation, I Don't Understand

I must be the minority of the minority here but god... HOTD is a mediocre adaptation, I don't understand people who treat HOTD as the new GOT (when GOT was good) the script of this series is poor, getting close to a poorly made fanfic made by Ryan. The characters are not 1% of what they are in the books (Rhaenyra/Alicent/Helaena/Rhaenys are practically new characters) and yes, it was only the female characters that they did that i think.... GRRM needs to stop letting people ruin his work, I thought he learned from GOT but no...

HOTD is definitely a mediocre adaptation. It falls into the traps of all the subpar and straight up bad adaptations do. It fucks around with character ages, it removes important plot points and characters, it changes characters' motivations and arcs, and it tries to cram too much information and too many events into too short of a run time.

The writing is sloppy or at best mediocre, the actors are good, but they can only do so much with what was written. The fundamental and purposeful misunderstanding of the story of the Dance alone shows how much HOTD has failed as an adaptation.

Actually, they did fuck over some of the male characters; Viserys becoming an old creep when he was in his late twenties in F&B when he married eighteen year old Alicent, Daemon murdering Rhea and marrying a teenage Laena, Laenor abandoning his children willingly. But it all is just a sign of how little Condal and Hess care about the actual story of F&B, just their rhaenicent fanfic.

I think this show wasn't GRRM's call, since HBO had already bought the rights to ASOIAF and it's world. He did have some input, as we see from Aegon's Dream, but clearly not very much.

I think one of the only reasons people pretend HOTD is a "good" adaptation is because the bar is in hell for those. Because it is, at the very least, better than the Eragon and Percy Jackson movies. But better than awful isn't anything close to good. Anon if you're in the minority, then I'm right there with you, HOTD isn't a good show.

Do you think alicent and larys relationship is sexual assault? Because it's what her fans say to defend the fact that she has been practically prostitution, and this put her and rhaenyra on a same level since alicent entertain sexual relationship out of the marriage

No, I don't think it was assault. Alicent chose not only to employ Larys but also chose to feed into his fetish. Alicent is the queen, the second most powerful person in the realm, she could easily get rid of him. She could literally have him executed for his sexual advances. But she chooses to continue this dynamic with him because it helps her cause.

Is Alicent happy about doing this? Well, no, but Alicent isn't happy about anything. After all, how can one be happy if they refuse to try to find happiness? Larys is a piece of shit, yes, but Alicent is continuously making the choice to ally with him, knowing how he likes to be repaid.

Larys is a piece of shit, yes, but he's not assaulting or raping Alicent. It's a professional interaction, just like sex work is (I'm not calling Alicent a "whore", I'm just saying she's engaging in a form of prostitution). She's doing sexual favors for a man in exchange for information while married.

The irony is that in terms of the Faith's morality, Alicent is on the same level as Rhaenyra. For all of Alicent's false piety and obsession with "honor and decency", she's stooped to the level she accuses Rhaenyra of being and enables men to do far worse than Rhaenyra ever did.

https://www.tumblr.com/radicalsansa/739060101195907072/if-youre-looking-at-hotd-through-a-medival

😨

How exactly does GRRM want us to look through a "medieval lens"? Does he want us to look through a medieval lens when we're watching underage girls be married off and suffering marital rape? Does he want us to look through a medieval lens when soldiers rape and pillage innocent smallfolk? Does he want us to look through a medieval lens when tyrannical kings are supported just because they took the throne?

GRRM's books may take place in a medieval-esque world, but that doesn't mean he wants the audience to support the atrocities normalized by a medieval society. He uses his setting to criticize the actions of the medieval world.

He uses Daenerys' campaign against slavery to show the monstrosity of the slavers and those who stand by allowing it. He uses Sansa's treatment by Joffrey to show the hypocrisy of the order of knighthood and medieval chivalry. He uses Jon's treatment in Winterfell to show the harm of bastardphobia. He uses Arya's time among the smallfolk to show how the petty wars of lords impacts the people. He uses Brienne's life to show the damage the patriarchy does to non-conforming women. He uses Rhaenyra's story to show the far-reaching harm to the world the patriarchy causes. He uses Barristan Selmy and Jaime Lannister to show the dangers of blind loyalty to a king.

We the audience are not supposed to justify a character's actions just because it was normal for the time. That's like justifying Thomas Jefferson's owning of slaves because it was the norm for rich men in Colonial America. We are supposed to be horrified with the world's treatment of people who don't conform to it. We are supposed to feel angry at the normalized and rampant injustice. We are supposed to acknowledge that, while the books (much like the world) are filled with people who do the wrong thing, the characters are not all equally bad.

This post was deleted since I started writing this a few days ago (so sorry it took me so long to finish this answer), but the gist of it is that TG is right because of the medieval standards of Westerosi society. In the case of Rhaenyra, like I said earlier, GRRM uses to Dance to show the damage of the patriarchy and male primogeniture. The dragons are wiped out because of TG's greed and sexism. The realm suffers thousands of deaths because the greens couldn't stand a woman, a non-conforming woman no less, to take the throne. GRRM doesn't want us to just nod along and say, "oh that's fair, after all it is normal for the time :)". No, we are supposed to see the injustice of the situation and the harm that injustice causes.

I have a feeling Ryan leans into Alicents victimhood so bad that we get all these unnecessary shots of alicent looking into the distance in the s2 trailer over important people like Jace and Cregan (who they're probably saving in the later half) because they want Olivia to come out of this an a Lister and use the show to launch her career

I don't feel super comfortable speculating about the actors since I know very little about them. However, I do know that Condal's obsession with Alicent is damaging to the show and will continue to be in future seasons.

Characters have already been sacrificed in the name of giving Alicent more unnecessary screen time. They removed Laena from most episodes and she's only there to marry Daemon and die. They removed Rhaenyra's ladies in waiting so they can focus exclusively on her friendship with Alicent. Helaena is just there in her scenes, any scene where she's meant to be a central character are always overtaken by Alicent. Baela and Rhaena have no distinctions from each other or personalities in general.

I'm completely expecting this trend to continue in the next season. Jace already has very little screen time or established character and we probably aren't going to get anything else until he dies. Cregan is probably going to be made into a minor character in the Dance or he's going to be turned from a complex character to just a war hunger monster.

Meanwhile, instead of seeing the actual conflict of the Dance, we're just going to get scenes of Alicent reacting to news. She's going to stare sadly into the middle distance while doing her pathetic doe eyes. The war itself isn't going to be shown very much, I'm sure, instead Alicent will cry over men doing things and Rhaenyra will randomly revert back to pining after her childhood friend who betrayed her constantly.

My expectations for season two are in hell. Condal just flat out sucks, I disagree with basically all his decisions and his writing is riddled with holes. Alicent is so clearly his favorite, it's like watching D&D obsessing over Sansa all over again.

Every Arya & Lyanna parallel: → harrenhal

LYANNA

Ned remembered the moment when all the smiles died, when Prince Rhaegar Targaryen urged his horse past his own wife, the Dornish princess Elia Martell, to lay the queen of beauty's laurel in Lyanna's lap. He could see it still: a crown of winter roses, blue as frost.

—  A Game of Thrones, Eddard XV

The king was wroth, and even sent his son the dragon prince to seek the man, but all they ever found was his painted shield, hanging abandoned in a tree.

—  A Storm of Swords, Bran II

"The tourney Lord Whent staged at Harrenhal beside the Gods Eye, in the year of the false spring. A notable event. [...] "But that was the tourney when he crowned Lyanna Stark as queen of love and beauty!" said Dany. 

—  A Storm of Swords, Daenerys IV

ARYA

It wasn't Harren, Arya wanted to say, it was me. She had killed Chiswyck with a whisper, and she would kill two more before she was through. I'm the ghost in Harrenhal, she thought. And that night, there was one less name to hate.

—  A Clash of Kings, Arya VII

Barefoot surefoot lightfoot, she sang under her breath. I am the ghost in Harrenhal.

— A Clash of Kings, Arya IX

I'm not an evil child, she thought, I am a direwolf, and the ghost in Harrenhal. She put her broomstick back in its hiding place and followed him from the godswood.

—  A Clash of Kings, Arya IX

"aegon is an interesting and complex character" imagine finding a character who is an abuser/rapist " interesting" what is your morality to find a character like that complex? "all the characters are bad people" yes but I don't see anyone calling Ramsay Bolton interesting or complex. TG stans are so weird, they keep making these stupid excuses for aegon just because Tom is a good looking guy i think....Like Aegon all you want but accept that he is a horrible person, don't make excuses just to not feel wrong for liking a character like that

A character having an abusive mother (yes, Alicent abused him, even before he was raping women) and negligent father isn't exactly an original backstory. Because of this the characters/antagonists with it need to be well written or at least have more to them to make them be actually complex. There are interesting characters with the same backstory traits as Aegon, but they have more substance to their characters; their more than just "my mom doesn't like me and my dad doesn't care :(".

That is a tragic childhood, but if someone never grows past this and uses it constantly excuse their shitty actions (like rape), they loose any sympathy, for good reason. Aegon isn't a complex character, he's a bland trope played by an attractive man. The only deviation from the trope is Aegon's whole "I don't want it :(" thing, which is basically just him not wanting responsibility. Yeah, someone can like that trope, everyone has favorites, for antagonists and protagonists alike. However, people calling him "complex" or sympathizing with him are blatantly wrong.

Aegon is perpetually infantilized by the show and the fans and it's just so frustrating. Aegon isn't a child, he's a grown ass man, who rapes servant girls, rapes his wife, hates his family, and doesn't want any responsibility. Honestly, Ramsay is a better antagonist than him, because at least Ramsay is fully committed. D&D weren't interested in trying to make him "sympathetic" (probably one of the only good things I'll ever say about them).

Aegon is a rapist, a negligent father, his brother's bully, and an awful ruler. There's nothing redeeming in his character, the only thing close to that is his reluctance to take the throne, something he quickly lost once he got a taste of the power. Anyone who sympathizes with him or likes him needs to help, Condal and Hess included.