After GRRM's Post Decrying HOTD, I've Seen A Shit Ton Of People Using It To Defend The Tired Idea That

After GRRM's post decrying HOTD, I've seen a shit ton of people using it to defend the tired idea that Rhaenyra and the Blacks actually totally lost the Dance.

This idea is just so desperate and braindead. One especially memorable post I saw claimed that because House Targaryen was overthrown and is going to definitely be eradicated, the Greens actually won 🤓.

If House Targaryen for some reason ends up being wiped out in the books, that doesn't mean the Greens won. It means both sides lost and the Dance was completely pointless. The Greens lost the war, GRRM literally couldn't have made it more clear. Their bloodline has been eradicated, their allies either forced bend the knee to Rhaenyra's son or were killed. There's literally nothing that could happen at this point to make them somehow "win".

House Targaryen is GRRM's favorite house in ASOIAF. The dude is literally writing two history books about them. Not the Hightowers, the Starks, the Martells, the Daynes, or any other house of Westeros. I'm not saying those houses aren't important to the story (some more than others). But it's very clear who the favorite is.

As for the Dance, I've said it before, I'll say it again, Daenerys is Rhaenyra and the Blacks' ultimate victory, end of story. Some people in this fandom just have no brains jfc.

Yes, exactly!!!! GRRM literally couldn't have made Rhaenyra's impact more clear. Both before and during her time, women could act as heads of their houses. However, after the Dance, women have markedy less power. This decline was foreshadowed and clear, Rhaenyra antis are just blind.

if anyone tries to claim that rhaenyra rolling over and not fighting for her inheritance wouldn’t have had any effect on the women of the realm, then show them this:

Do you think Grrm hates Rhaenyra? I keep seeing this ever since he wrote that post.

See I don't think GRRM hates any of his characters, but especially not Rhaenyra. I can understand how people can interpret it that way to an extent, but it's very obvious he doesn't hate her.

In F&B, GRRM purposely writes it from the perspective of biased men, so of course Rhaenyra is portrayed badly. She's written by Munkin, Eustace, and Mushroom to be a negative example of women in power.

However, GRRM's MO has pretty much always been tackling medieval stereotypes and prejudices. Xenophobia, hatred of bastards, ableism, and sexism are all prevalent themes in ASOIAF. However, just because these themes are portrayed doesn't mean GRRM shares these views; in fact he uses ASOIAF to point out how destructive and wrong those ideas are.

Rhaenyra's story was written to show the destructive nature of the patriarchy. She as a character is meant to be morally gray and hated by historians. She's reflective of how history views ruling queens; she's demonized, wrongfully blamed, and disregarded.

The way readers are introduced to Rhaenyra is through people who hate her for being a woman who fought for her birthright. The way GRRM wrote his latest post about her is still from that perspective. People who claim he hates her are people who are unable to separate his actual views from those of his characters.

I hate those Daenerys is going to sacrifice herself/die theories so much it genuinely makes me tweak and I have never been the type of person to get upset at all over fiction or any type of media, but this irks me so bad because not only is Daenerys my absolute favorite character of all time, it’s upsetting how the female character is always the one who has to die for others sakes and never achieve anything for herself. Yes, it’s her destiny as AA to fight the Others, but that doesn’t mean that she has to die doing it. Like, seriously, after we got F&B and saw how many Targaryen women struggled with misogyny and being passed over for the throne, it feels upsetting to me if the one who is supposed to break the wheel will never have a chance to do so. I do love Bran but I do not see him fit to sit on the throne, not to mention how young he is and will be at the series end unless George does a massive timeskip, and after the whole world is in shambles after the Long Night, who is more fitting to sit on the throne and help mend things and lead the people forward? A well experienced ruler and fighter who will bring along a new age of change, or a child with no such experience? Perhaps it’s just me being salty but I just really want the best for my favorite character who I believe deserves to have her shot at having a home and being able to rule and change the world together with the other characters. Especially after the end of GoT, which no I don’t ever believe that George will go that route, but with how everything happened in the show, it looked like Westeros was a completely and utter mess and there was nobody capable left to pick up the pieces, Bran’s ascension to the throne was so random too and didn’t even feel satisfying or like a good conclusion (not that those two incapable idiots could ever produce a satisfying ending, but yeah). What are your thoughts on this? I just feel sad that fellow Dany fans are literally enthusiastically waiting for her death in the upcoming books as if there isn’t a better destiny for her :( The female character who managed to rise to power and become a ruler in her own right dying or giving that up to the men in order to “settle down” leaves such a bad taste in my mouth and doesn’t look like the subversion George has done with her character at all.

I definitely agree with you anon, Dany dying/sacrificing herself really doesn't seem to fit with her story. Yes, Dany certainly would be willing to die to save the world, but that doesn't seem to be where GRRM is writing her.

Dany's story is saturated with life; which is pretty ironic since she's been called "Daughter of Death". She's closely tied to themes of fertility (mother of dragons, helloo), rebirth (Azor Ahai, entering the pyre), and survival/endurance.

Dany's story shares very little similarities to characters who have been set up for death. For example, Robb. Dany may share some superficial similarities to Robb, but the signs of Robb's impending death are not shared at all. GRRM always sets up the deaths of his major characters from their introductions. That hasn't happened with Dany; if anything we see a set up to her surviving.

You're so right about how people are foaming at the mouth for Dany's death. Her dying after everything she's been through and everything she stands for is just...no. It feels so gross and has some really concerning undertones.

The woman who actually fought for change and made a massive upheaval in the status quo, who genuinely cares for all her people, who understands the responsibility of ruling, who demonstrates incredible wisdom, who only wants to make the world better dying for the sake of the story is just wow.

(full article here)

the tradfems obsession with passive ladies gets really umcomfortable with Heleana, considering she's written to be autistic. these people start going "autistic women are true women that understand the value of femininity unlike neurotypical NLOGs and tomboys" and its sooo gross tbh, them speaking over other women. and they give shit to POC for liking Dany, calling them "internalized racists" lol

Yeahhh that whole faction of the fandom is just so disturbing really. The amount of hypocrisy and hatred makes it so exhausting to try to argue with them. They'll never see reason because they're too far up their own asses lol.