Pro Rhaenyra Targaryen - Tumblr Posts

I've seen a lot of people calling Rhaenyra a bad mother for letting bastards claim dragon even though it weakens her son's claim, and even saying that it's her fault for not having children with Laenor and she's stupid to not consider how it affects her claim to the throne.

First of all, it is completely unfair to blame Rhaenyra for having bastards. Her husband was gay. Their situation isn't her fault or Laenor's, it's just a very bad situation. Rhaenyra even says that they tried to concieve a child, but it didn't work, and "there was no joy." I swear, some people would rather she force her gay husband to have sex with her, which would not only be unpleasant for both of them, but probably wouldn't result in children anyway. I've also seen people say that she could hafe just not had children, but that really wasn't an option. In a society like Westeros, a married woman without children would have been considered to be barren, and would be looked down upon by the court. This would have seriously damaged her reputation and claim to the throne. Admitidly, having three bastard sons also damaged her reputation, but with her father supporting her, and Laenor claiming them as his, it would be much harder to openly question Rhaenyra or her sons. Also, with all three of her sons, there was a chance they would favor her over Harwin and help dispel rumors of their bastardy. Obviously, none of them did, but there really isn't anything Rhaenyra could do about that. With the crown protection her and her children, no one could actually do anything, save for spread rumors, and with Rhaenyra next in line to inherit, I think she assumed she'd be able to protect her sons after her fathers death. Obviously the fact that she is a woman and has three bastards would cause problems with her ascension, but it's much easier to deny that her sons are bastards than it would have been to deny that she was barren, had she chosen not to have children.

Now onto the dragonseeds. Rhaenyra definitly knows the danger of putting Targaryen bastards on dragons, but at this point she doesn't have another option. She knows that it threatens Jace and Joffrey's legitimacy, but she needs dragonriders if she is to win the throne. It is definitly valid for Jace to feel like she is undermining him and his claim, but Rhaenyra is also right in that, without the dragonseeds, he won't have a claim at all. Like it or not, the dragonseeds are a crucial part of the war. The dragonseeds put Rhaenyra in a very vulnerable position: either use them and risk undermining her sons, or don't use them and try to face Vhagar with only Syrax or Caraxes. In the end, she chooses the option that would, hopefully, leave her with a claim to defend, and the power of the crown to protect her sons with. It’s a very difficult decision to make, but Rhaenyra makes the choice that seems most logical to her.

The fact that it's always Rhaenyra blamed for Jace, Luke, and Joff really shows TG's true colors. Rhaenyra is always blamed for the choices of the people around her and those she makes for herself are demonized no matter the reasons or situation.

If TG stans actually cared about illegitimate children or legitimate succession they'd have issues with their own team. Aegon not only had illegitimate children but he paid to watch them fight for sport. If they cared about "true heirs" and actually believed Baela and Rhaena should have inherited, they would have supported Rhaenyra. Aemond stans even love the theory that Helaena's children are his not Aegon's. That's literally the thing they're bitching about.

The only crime Rhaenyra committed that Aegon and Aemond didn't is being a woman. If Rhaenyra was a man, she'd be loved and called a "complex gray character". People would write metas about how she's a sympathetic character and shouldn't be blamed for her actions because of her daddy/mommy issues. But because she's a woman she's a selfish whore who doesn't deserve to even live let alone inherit the throne.

Corlys and Viserys were the ones who forced Rhaenyra and Laenor to marry. Corlys was the one who chose to make Driftmark pass through Laenor's line. Corlys was the one who chose to support Luke and later Addam and Alyn over Baela and Rhaena. If they want to bitch about Driftmark's succession, be mad at Corlys, he's the one who made the decisions. But of course, because he's a man and Laenor is a man, they are never blamed or demonized for the decisions regarding Rhaenyra's children. Rhaenyra's only hated by TG stans because she's a woman who refused to conform to the patriarchal standards forced on her.

i made a helpful slideshow for those who may be confused!

Do you think Grrm hates Rhaenyra? I keep seeing this ever since he wrote that post.

See I don't think GRRM hates any of his characters, but especially not Rhaenyra. I can understand how people can interpret it that way to an extent, but it's very obvious he doesn't hate her.

In F&B, GRRM purposely writes it from the perspective of biased men, so of course Rhaenyra is portrayed badly. She's written by Munkin, Eustace, and Mushroom to be a negative example of women in power.

However, GRRM's MO has pretty much always been tackling medieval stereotypes and prejudices. Xenophobia, hatred of bastards, ableism, and sexism are all prevalent themes in ASOIAF. However, just because these themes are portrayed doesn't mean GRRM shares these views; in fact he uses ASOIAF to point out how destructive and wrong those ideas are.

Rhaenyra's story was written to show the destructive nature of the patriarchy. She as a character is meant to be morally gray and hated by historians. She's reflective of how history views ruling queens; she's demonized, wrongfully blamed, and disregarded.

The way readers are introduced to Rhaenyra is through people who hate her for being a woman who fought for her birthright. The way GRRM wrote his latest post about her is still from that perspective. People who claim he hates her are people who are unable to separate his actual views from those of his characters.

I'm going to have to say Alicent , then Rhaenyra because , Cersei's stubborn ass would never accept defeat like that.

𝑩𝒐𝒐𝒌 𝑨𝒄𝒄𝒖𝒓𝒂𝒕𝒆 𝒂𝒕 𝒊𝒕'𝒔 𝒃𝒆𝒔𝒕.

CD:HELAFILMS @tiktok

I've stumbled upon the TG part of Tumblr and oh my god

It's just people judging rhaenyra with the most unga unga mentality while simultaneously defending Alicent using arguments from the 21st century

This is basically how all their posts look:

"rhaenyra is a whore she had sex before marriage!!!"

"poor poor Alicent, marrying someone older than her at the young young, almost baby age of 15, she was the only one who endured such torture, being maritally raped and having kids, only her was expected to be on such position"

Me casually going through a whole 180 in like less than 3 months???

I went from "Alicent apologist" to "everyone sucks" to "rhaenyra my beloved you didn't deserve this"

So many TG stans talking bout how TG gets the shorter stick of everything and the producers do everything in their power to make TB look good when it's literally the other way around

Did you know that in the books Alicent is only 10-11 years younger than Viserys? They don't have that 30-40 year gap they have in the show

Did you know that Alicent was a manipulative cunt in the books and had beef with 9 year old Rhaenyra when she was 18?

Did you know that Aegon wasn't a puppet of his grandfather and actually wanted the throne and when he was king he would ignore their advice and do his own thing?

Lucerys was 5 when he took Aemonds eye, who was 10 at the time

But sure, they changed everything to make TB look nice

I have the theory that TG doesn't know basic biology, because they bitch and moan about Jacaerys, Lucerys and Joffrey being bastards

Yes, there is a possibility that they might be bastards, but it has always been a 50/50 thing you know why? Because Aemma is an Arryn, and with a quick internet search you can see that Aemma's father had dark hair and if you know how genetics works it mean that there is a possibility that Laenor's sons are his

The same people who call themselves feminists for supporting Alicent are the same ones who claim that Rhaenyra isn't the rightful heir because she's a woman, or wish Daemon beats Rhaenyra

And the same people who call TB rape apologists for saying that Alicent isn't the martyr they think she is because she got maritally raped are the same people who say they wish Dyana gets raped again or justify Aegon actions because she's a "thing"

No surprise most Alicent apologists are Swifties, they already have practice in harassing anyone who dares say something bad about their wannabe-martyr

girl, you have a way with words

Can they make a post with their opinion on young alicent please? (English is not my first language, I hope I used the pronouns correctly. If not, I apologize)

Hello! I’m sorry this took me so long, I had written out this entire response and somehow tumblr fucking ate it.

So for starters, you didn’t quite get the pronoun use right, but that’s totally fine and I really appreciate you trying! Pronouns and the english language are a bitch to learn. So when someone’s pronouns are ‘they/them’ those pronouns only replace gendered pronouns- (he/his/he’s/she/her/hers/she’s). Non gendered pronouns (you/your/you’re/yours) are entirely fine. So this would’ve been ‘Can you make a post with your opinion on young Alicent?’. If you were then to talk about me, it’d be ‘I asked watcherintheweyr to make a post about their opinion on young Alicent’ or ‘Watcherintheweyr made a post explaining their thoughts on young Alicent because I asked them.’

Don’t feel bad pls- the English language is a total bitch, and genuinely you put more effort into trying to get it right than a lot of native english speakers who I interact with. And I really do appreciate it.

anyways, on to your question!

So while I have a lot of sympathy for young Alicent in a lot of ways- I don’t like her, and I never did. For starters, I absolutely despise that the show isolated Rhaenyra and made Alicent her only friend and companion, which was untrue in the books and also makes no sense for how royalty works. Rhaenyra, as the only princess, would’ve have a sizeable ‘household’ of young ladies around her age. Those girls would’ve been essentially her helpers and her companions- she would’ve been in lessons alongside them, and they would’ve worked together in matters of court, politics, and events. Canonically she had a gaggle of young girls she was very close to- to the point that when (SPOILERS) Rhaenyra is murdered by Aegon, her ‘youngest and gentlest’ lady, Elinda Massey, purportedly gouges out her eyes from the trauma and horror.

Also, I despise that Laena Velaryon’s story and importance in Rhaenyra’s life was sacrificed for Alicent Hightower- including their deeply hinted romantic connection.

Anyways, moving on. Alicent Hightower.

Ultimately, I think that Alicent is a tragic example of what happens when you buy into oppressive regimes- further and enable them because you think you’ll be rewarded for sacrificing others to those regimes, and realize far too late that you won’t. She has 100% bought into the Faith of the Seven and Otto and Westeros’ sexism, and she serves that system in the hope that she’ll be rewarded for it, for playing by the rules and sabotaging the power and autonomy of other women- especially Rhaenyra. And all the seeds and groundwork are THERE from episode one if you pay attention. Alicent is a self-righteous hypocrite and not nearly as intelligent as she thinks she is- and she is also a victim of Otto, Viserys, and the patriarchy. I also think she was never a good friend to Rhaenyra- and that she never really knew Rhaenyra.

(This post is going to be VERY long, so buckle up)

In episode one, we see very quickly that Alicent doesn’t understand Rhaenyra well, if at all. She makes the comment that Rhaenyra is ‘disagreeable’ when she’s worried- and is promptly baffled that Rhaenyra’s worry is not her position or about being ‘overshadowed’ for a son- that Rhaenyra genuinely hopes her father will get the son he’s wanted for her entire life, and that her only true worry is her mother. Emma D’Arcy and Milly Alcock both press that Rhaenyra is fully aware that due to her gender that she isn’t ‘enough’ for her parents or the realm, that she’s seen as lacking or deficient. Alicent doesn’t seem at all aware of this. Furthermore, Alicent’s question is… Odd. At this point in the story, Rhaenyra is only ‘a’ princess. She isn’t the heir- Daemon is. The only ‘overshadowing’ that could occur is Viserys’ already fleeting and inconsistent ‘love’ becoming even less present. And Rhaenyra is already expecting this; but Alicent presses more of Rhaenyra’s ‘position’.

Now bear in mind- in the past 10 years, 14 year old Rhaenyra has had to watch her father insist on and continually risk her mother’s life and health, and she’s had to mourn 5 siblings- some born, others not. So Rhaenyra being ‘disagreeable’ when she’s worried makes sense. But when she doesn’t budge on not wanting to talk about/prioritize her ‘position’, Alicent gets huffy and makes to leave. She then appears to be entirely stunned when Rhaenyra verbatim recites the current passage of history that they are learning from their Septa. This piece of information is given to us to set up and establish Rhaenyra’s clever mind and interest in learning- of the 5 episodes we have of Young!Rhaenyra, she is shown to be actively listening to and learning from her superiors in just about all of them, reading and learning from books in 3 of them, and utilizing courtly intrigue, manners, and speak in 3 of them to shut down opponents or disrespect. And yet Alicent is entirely taken aback by Rhaenyra doing this; which again lends itself to the idea that she doesn’t actually know Rhaenyra very well. In the script, at the end of the episode, it’s also expressed that Alicent doesn’t seem to understand Rhaenyra being stressed/worried about her investiture as heir- in her eyes, Rhaenyra now has everything anyone could want. Meanwhile, Rhaenyra has now been revealed the truth of why Aegon conquered the seven kingdoms- and has now been entrusted with learning to rule and govern the kingdoms, and to nurture and protect the legacy meant to fulfill this prophecy- and she is shown to be very aware of and affected by the weight of this.

Alicent, meanwhile, has become a pawn in her father’s bid for power, and a victim to his ambitions, and to Viserys’ sexism and passivity.

In episode 2, Alicent has been seeing Viserys in secret for six months- and notably, it’s 6 months into their meetings that Viserys expresses that he wishes for her not to tell Rhaenyra, as he doesn’t think she would ‘understand’. We see that she is harming herself and Otto doesn’t appear to care about it in any way more meaningful than why she would do so when she’s the most beautiful girl at court- a thing to be envied and admired. We also in this episode see how fully she has bought into the realm and the Faith’s sexism. When Rhaenyra comes to Alicent about her fears of the plots of the lords to marry her father off again now that his period of mourning is coming to an end, and as such they would be plotting to supplant her. She is struggling, because it’s shown that she is trying to act as heir, to learn and participate- because she WANTS this, wants to be heir, wants to do it and do it well- but Otto undermines and humiliates her, and Viserys simply lets it happen- practically enables it. She expresses her fears of these plots and her frustrations and desire to be the heir, to be more and grasp for more than she would’ve ever been allowed as ‘Viserys’ little girl’.

And Alicent’s response is to dismiss Rhaenyra’s fears- to tell her friend and the named heir to the throne that it ‘isnt their place to question the plots of kings and men’. Because Alicent does not believe women can or should hold genuine power- like she says in episode 9, women are meant to ‘gently guide those who [rule]’. And she does this while she is actively a part of one of those very plots that Rhaenyra fears. Now, bear in mind; I am fully aware that Alicent is a victim to her father’s ambitions, and Viserys’ complicity. It’s not Alicent’s fault what these men do to her. And it’s understandable why Alicent wouldn’t want to tell Rhaenyra, in a lot of ways.

That doesn’t change that both Alicent AND Viserys broke Rhaenyra’s trust and hurt her- and she is shown later to be trying to create distance from them- because they have both shown that Rhaenyra cannot trust them. Viserys because he’s self-serving and blind, and Alicent because her ultimate loyalty and obeisance will always be to her father, not Rhaenyra. And Rhaenyra is keenly aware of this after the reveal, even though it is never made clear to Rhaenyra that Alicent wasn’t seeing Viserys in secret of her own volition. That doesn’t change that for six months, since the *night* of Aemma’s funeral, Alicent was seeing Viserys in secret, whilst dismissing Rhaenyra’s fears of that exact sort of plot to her face. That doesn’t change the fact that Rhaenyra has every right to feel hurt, feel betrayed, and not want anything to do with Alicent- or Viserys, beyond what she cannot avoid.

On a note that’s entirely personal, while I know that Alicent was attempting to share something important to her with Rhaenyra in an attempt to help her feel better, to me, Alicent having Rhaenyra partake of her faith felt… strange. Rhaenyra, who named the dragon she shared a cradle with after a goddess of Old Valyria and who has no idea how to pray in a Sept to the Seven, clearly either is not religious or follows Valyrian faiths- and considering her Valyrian marriage to Daemon, it’s likely the latter. Personally- I would not want a friend of mine to try and have me participate in their religion, and I wouldn’t push them to participate in mine either. For me, that was just uncomfortable; but again that’s a purely personal issue.

In episode 3, we see these traits of Alicent’s repeat, as well as her inability to introspect or consider someone else’s feelings. Immediately in the Godswood she uses her ‘weight’ as queen to disregard Rhaenyra attempting create space and distance between them. And while yes it was on command from the King- the way Alicent does it is almost… Smug. She then attempts to tell Rhaenyra that ‘things need not be this way’- as Rhaenyra, upset, goes to change and ready herself for the hunt, despite the fact that this is the last place she wishes to be. Alicent is upset at the loss of her friend, and likely lonely- but she disregards Rhaenyra’s feelings entirely. This is further compounded by the scene in the carriage.

Despite the fact that she and Alicent are not friends, nor truly even speaking, Rhaenyra, who watched her mother struggle and suffer pregnancies, and lose multiple babes and her life, expresses concern that Alicent is traveling in her condition. In an incredibly clumsy attempt to soothe her concerns, Alicent makes the comment that ‘Aegon came quickly and without fuss.’ Again; i understand that this was a very clumsy attempt to ease Rhaenyra’s worry, however everyone in that carriage sees how poorly the comment lands, and Alicent makes no attempt at apology. ‘Aegon came quickly and without fuss’ is.. very insensitive to say to the girl that lost her mother to the childbed, and especially when you are quite literally sitting in that mother’s place- when you’ve replaced her because her last child killed her and died alongside her. If she had made any attempt at apology (the way Rhaenyra did when she saw a comment she made while expressing her frustrations hurt Alicent in e.4), that would be one thing; but she doesn’t.

Rhaenyra is heir- and canonically the only duty she has balked at is marriage. She is currently desperately holding on to being ‘the heir’ with everything she has- because it is all she has, the only thing that doesn’t make her replaceable with the new family that Viserys is building with Alicent- and as such it’s understandable that she doesn’t wish to go to Aegon’s second Name-day celebration, as she is keenly aware of the thing Viserys is blind to and that Alicent is passive to; the realm considers a 2 year old boy child more valuable and more worthy than the 17 year old princess who has actively been learning to be and acting as heir for three years at this point. Alicent’s uncle, Hobart Hightower, welcomes them by crying out ‘All Hail Aegon the Conqueror-Babe, second of his name!’ and neither Viserys nor Alicent does anything. Hobart is not corrected, nor taken to task, and the crown is rabidly enamored with the two year old child all because his genitalia makes him more ‘valuable’ than Rhaenyra. By calling Aegon ‘second of his name’ Hobart is saying the quiet part out loud- the realm all expects and wants for Aegon to be heir, for Rhaenyra to be set aside. Alicent is the queen- but she doesn’t care enough to correct her uncle, either because she does already think her son should be heir or because she doesn’t think it’s a woman’s place to correct a man.

Later in this same episode, she gives an incredibly half-hearted defense of Rhaenyra when Otto begins to speak literal treason- but she does bend to his will yet again, and goes to Viserys with the intent of pushing Aegon’s claim. She is aware in *episode 3* that her father is conspiring against Rhaenyra’s ascension, and she never says a word of it to Viserys or Rhaenyra, because she is Otto’s creature first, and because she agrees- Rhaenyra is a woman, and thus cannot and should not rule.

Episode 4 and 5 really bring Alicent’s hypocrisy and self-centeredness to a head and set the stage for the cruel abuser that she becomes. She is the story of a victim-turned abuser, in the end.

It starts out more positively, with Alicent and Rhaenyra attempting to rekindle their friendship, and discussing Rhaenyra’s tour. Alicent expresses an almost childish lack of understanding of the truth of Rhaenyra’s courtship tour- calling it romantic, seeing it as something dreamlike. Rhaenyra exposes the cold truth of it- after we had earlier seen that none of the options she’s offered (that we see) are actually suitable. She uses courtly manners and speak to have Lord Dondarrion essentially take himself out of the running, by getting him to speak of his age and simply agreeing with him- and is then presented with a literal child. She is fully aware that every man ‘courting’ her doesn’t love her, doesn’t want HER. They want her valyrian blood. They want their children to be dragonriders. They want proximity to the throne and power. Rhaenyra has to choose a consort; and the consequences if she chooses wrong are disastrous. She could choose a man who turns her into what Viserys did to Alicent and Aemma, she could choose a man who utilizes Westerosi patriarchal views and values and turns her into a puppet queen so that he has the actual power, or she could choose a man who is, ultimately, weak- and thus would not be able to support her claim, would not be able to support or defend her when she ascends. She expresses these frustrations- but when she sees one of her comments hurts Alicent, she immediately holds her hand and squeezes in an attempt at comfort and apology.

Alicent expresses that she has found that she has few friends, lately; and this comment is.. Interesting, in what it says of Alicent. That even at the height of female power in the realm, she cannot inspire loyalty or affection in those around her, that the only prospect she has for a friend is her childhood companion. Rhaenyra expresses a hope to grow closer again as well; but well.

Immediately we shift to the scene in the Godswood where Alicent confronts Rhaenyra with her father’s accusations. She comes into the confrontation immediately condescending and judgemental, looking down on Rhaenyra’s rebellious and adventurous nature, as well as her ‘queer Targaryen customs’, and the ‘crimes’ of which she is accused. Because remember; at this point, Alicent has bought entirely into the way the realm and the Faith views women; women who follow the rules, subservient and obedient, never reaching for more, sacrificing and doing their duty, are good, should be rewarded. Anything else is morally deficient, wrong, lesser. Given this and how she approaches the conversation; it is entirely understandable that Rhaenyra doesn’t trust Alicent, and relies on misdirection and her mother’s memory as well as their former closeness to protect herself, because through this entire conversation, it is obvious that if she knew the truth, Alicent *would not protect Rhaenyra.*

Now remember, Alicent speaks with Viserys in ‘defense’ of Rhaenyra- and she knows FULLY well that Viserys doesn’t believe that nothing happened, that Rhaenyra is restless, chaotic, and willful, and that she would have done as she pleases. (Made worse by Viserys bemoaning that Rhaenyra is ‘just a girl’ when 5 years ago he married Alicent and has had 2 children by her at this point and will have 2 more- plus he has been pushing and pressuring for Rhaenyra to marry for at least 3 of those years.)

Later, when Otto is dismissed, Alicent states what we all know to be true; he got himself into this position, because he kept pushing for Aegon to be made heir, to the point of committing treason and spying on the princess, salivating for a moment where she misbehaves that he can use against her. Here we see Alicent begin to believe the seeds Otto has been planting; that Rhaenyra would kill her siblings to secure her ascension. (Remember, the whole reason of the juxtaposition between the boar and the white stag in episode.3 is to directly contradict this. Rhaenyra attacks and kills the boar only because it harmed her and her knight. Killing the white stag would have helped her- it would have made the lords of Westeros see her as chosen, especially since she caught and killed it the day AFTER Aegon’s name day, and it revealed itself to HER [symbolizing that yes, Rhaenyra is the rightful heir and the RIGHT heir]. Killing it would have given her legitimacy beyond legitimacy and silenced MANY of the tongues that are conspiring against her. However she shows it mercy- despite the fact that its’ death would have served her) Despite having once ‘loved’ Rhaenyra, and ‘known’ her, somehow these lies make sense to Alicent and she believes them. (Furthermore, she somehow is shocked in ep.9 that the reverse is true- that to secure Aegon’s ascension, the easiest and most acceptable route to all the men around her who wield the true power, is to kill Rhaenyra and all of her children).

When later Larys mentions the delivery of a tea to Rhaenyra’s chambers on orders of the king (despite, again, her KNOWING that Viserys doesn’t believe nothing happened) she decides to look further into the matter; even though clearly Viserys wishes it dead and buried, left behind in the dust of her father’s departure of the capitol.

In ep.5, when Alicent discovers that Criston Cole slept with Rhaenyra, it all comes to a head. Despite the fact that Rhaenyra didn’t ‘lie’ (she did not sleep with Daemon), in this moment, Rhaenyra has solidified herself in Alicent’s mind as morally deficient, as less, and it infuriates her. The fact that Rhaenyra has taken charge of ehr body and autonomy in a way that Alicent would never have dared infuriates her; because a part of her had always accepted and even wished for what she assumed would be the order of things. That Rhaenyra would ‘sacrifice and do her duty’ and lay down to suffer the whims and wills of the men around them at Alicent’s side. That they would be united in that suffering. That they would be defanged and declawed the way the Faith extolls women must be, to ‘gently guide’ the men in power alongside them. (Ironic considering how later Alicent utterly fails in ‘guiding’ every man in power around her.)

Alicent has followed every rule and every tradition, does her duty no matter the discomfort, and the fact that Rhaenyra is daring to grasp for more, for power of her own, for happiness and autonomy, and isn’t being punished for it infuriates her. Infuriates her to the point that only Rhaenyra’s trasngression matters. To her, it doesn’t matter that Criston Cole broke his vows and slept with the princess because he valued desire over duty (as explicitly stated by Fabien and by ep.4’s directors)- he is a man. Only Rhaenyra must be punished. It doesn’t matter to her that Rhaenyra has bowed to her father’s will and that the choice of who she will be marry has been taken away from her so that he can use her to fix the political wounds he has caused; from this point forward, nothing Rhaenyra ever does will be enough for Alicent. Supplying heirs to the throne and Driftmark? Not enough- especially since Rhaenyra doesn’t assault her gay husband to do so. Acting as heir and putting forth wise, responsible suggestions in politics and problem-solving in the small council? Absolutely not, especially since in Alicent’s mind Rhaenyra has no business ruling over the men in the Small Council. Ruling from the heir’s seat of Dragonstone in preparation for the throne? Not enough. Offering apology when the poison that Alicent has been feeding her children about Rhaenyra and her children causes a fight between the children where her son is injured after throwing around death threats and claimed a dragon without the King’s leave (which IS established to be necessary in Jaehaerys’ reign) Not enough- she must have Lucerys’ eye as well. From this point on, *nothing Rhaenyra can or will do will ever be enough.*

And the irony is that her own hypocrisy never takes herself into account. She uses a dress to declare war at a wedding; insulting the Velaryons and her stepdaughter, and she faces no consequences for doing so, nothing for the disrespect- but only Rhaenyra ‘never’ faces consequences, right? Criston Cole murders a knight of the kingdoms and strikes the future king-consort to the Kingdoms- and Alicent protects him from every consequence, brings him into her own household as her own sworn knight.

In essence; young Alicent is a victim of the Faith, the Patriarchy and the men around her; but all of the seeds for the abuser that she becomes are there. She’s a hypocrite, blind to anything that doesn’t fit the narrative she wishes for, and to a degree, very narcissistic, and not as clever or as powerful as she thinks she is.

Mind you her being self-serving or self-absorbed isn’t some unforgivable crime; but in juxtaposition to how Rhaenyra expresses concern and care for her at multiple points, it just sits very poorly, for me.

Moving on;

Alicent, when younger is… Deeply interesting, deeply flawed, and incredibly tragic. Her younger self sets the stage for how her story ends; (SPOILERS) with her outliving all her children and grandchildren, all of them dead for her grudges and ambition, with her mad and alone.

She’s also, in some ways, very clever; she’s observant, knowing much of the court gossip, even potentially dangerous secrets in e.1 (speaking of that one Lady’s ‘swollen belly’ aka suspected pregnancy). She’s very duty-oriented, though mostly because she wants to be rewarded for how dutiful she is. She’s subservient to the men around her due to how Otto uses her, and short-sighted. I don’t think she’s a particularly kind individual, but I think she did have the POTENTIAL to be kind. She’s a little boy-obsessed- she was confirmed to have had a crush on Daemon and on Criston, plus how she viewed the courtship tour as ‘romantic’, but she’s also so obsessed with Rhaenyra that it blinds her to the truth both of herself and of Rhaenyra- obsessed with an image of Rhaenyra that isn’t actually the truth. She takes solace in her Faith, it seems, more than anything else, and she struggles to connect to people around her in meaningful ways. She has moments of deep insight- such as how she told Rhaenyra that any effort in hers and Viserys’ relationship would have to come from Rhaenyra, as Viserys, a man, is useless to ‘the language of girls’. She doesn’t like risks (no interest in flying with Rhaenyra) or adrenaline, and likely pursues only more ‘feminine’ pursuits- canonically we know Rhaenyra loves to ride horses and to fly Syrax, to hawk and hunt, loves fashion- even in the book I’d say Rhaenyra is a ‘fashionable’ tomboy in a lot of ways. But we don’t really know.. ANY hobbies of Alicent’s. We don’t know her passions, we don’t know her interests outside of the Faith and the ambitions of her family.

We don’t know her relationships with her children or motherhood- though we know she’s jealous of what a good mother Rhaenyra is.

Honestly it’s a shame. S1 really needed to be 20 eps- 10 with the younger versions of Alicent and Rhaenyra, and 10 with the older. It would’ve let us KNOW the characters more and get far more invested in their fates.

Anyways this… is a novel. But I hope I answered your question alright lmao. I think Alicent as a character is very interesting- but good lord I don’t like her, and yeah I didn’t like her younger version either.

i’m not going to freak out just yet about that new still, all i’ll say is adding in MORE unnecessary gendered violence to a show that ends in femicide is… quite the choice, especially when you claim you’re writing a feminist adaptation.

It always surprises me when Alicent is seen as a feminist icon

I'm sorry her? From all the female characters you chose the religion-obsessed character who shames other women for their promiscuity? The woman who instead of punishing her rapist son (I'm not saying she had to send him to the wall cause even I can tell that's ridiculous) enables his behaviour as long as he's discreet with it? The one who married Helaena off when she was a tween, freshly menstruated to Aegon knowing full well how awful he is to women?

Being conventionally attractive and looking at everyone with her sad teary eyes while asking "why's no one in my side?:(" doesn't make her a feminist icon

"uh rhaenyra isn't a feminist icon either cause she just cares about being queen and doesn't care for other women" what the fuck do you expect? For her to, as soon as she got named heir, say that women will be the first one's in line to inherit from now on? To illegalize arranged marriages? Her becoming queen is a big of a deal, her ruling successfully would've opened so many doors to other women, but Alicent decided her rapist of a son should be king and closed all doors and windows to other women

Most of this flavour of greenies tend to call themselves feminists for supporting Alicent but yell that Rhaenyra is a whore (she slept with 4 men, she was married to 2 of them, had a serious relationship with one of them and offered to maintain a relationship with the other who btw refused because she didn't want to give up a life of comfort and luxury after one quick fuck) and Baela is a spawn from hell because she's not afraid to throw punches when people offend her family

If daemyra is creepy, rhaenycole (or however it's called), should be equally, if not twice as creepy

Because on one hand we have a man who spent most of his time out of kings landing, kissed his teenage niece (who was of marriable age) on one of the scarce times he visited, who he didn't sleep with until she was an adult woman with already grown children (not saying they were adults)

And on the other we have a man, of the same age as her uncle, who was 24/7 with her, or at least was supposed to, since she was like 14 and ended up sleeping with her (when she was of marriable age) while she was drunk and then 20 years later still holds a grudge against her because she didn't run away with him after that

Let's be honest here, if Cole was interpreted by an actor who isn't considered attractive by beauty standards and was older, a lot of more people would call him creepy, but no, the role of the "creepy man" was given to Matt Smith, who is 11 years older than Fabien and isn't considered attractive by beauty standards (I find him attractive)

Me when people say that Rhaenyra is a bad ruler because when she was 15-16 she said ONCE that the small folk don't matter after leaving the red keep and being around them for the FIRST time

And then they say that Aegon is such a good ruler because he cares for his people and it's like, I would fucking hope so? He's a 20-something-year-old who spent half his life surrounded by them, I would fucking hope he had learned to care for them after he spent a shit ton of time getting blacked out drunk with them

Edit because someone reminded me this: Nyra was only dismissive of the small folk wishes after witnessing a mocking play about her while aegon was kind to the small folk because they were stroking his ego

It always amuses me when TG acts like Alicent's life would've been better if she hadn't married Viserys, like no, if she had failed in seducing Viserys her father wouldn't have allowed her to marry someone of her choosing, he probably would've married her to the best buyer and given her status it wouldn't have been someone very important and as we were able to see, Otto doesn't care about the age of the suitor

And no, don't say "But but but house Hightower was important bla bla bla" because though that's true, her father is the second son, so unless her uncle died with no heirs, her marriage prospects weren't very good, the only thing that would've saved her a little would be the fact that she was friends with the heir, and someone would've married her in the hopes of getting close to Rhaenyra and striking an alliance, but that's me trying to find something positive about a marriage with Alicent (in the political sense). Like, there's a reason why Otto didn't publicly present Alicent as an option, because he knew he would be laughed at, who would think that the king was going to choose the worst out of his 2 options?

Viserys married her because he thought she was interested in him (in s1 ep 2 she tells him she had been enjoying his company), or at the very least that they got along, she visited him in her best clothes looking better than she ever had (cause let's be honest here, she looked great), which showed more skin than normal, she ate with him, gave him gifts, etc. Like that's shit you do in Westeros if you are interested in someone. He also married her not because he was looking for a male heir, but because he needed that little reassurance that if something happened to Rhaenyra before she had children there would be someone who could take the throne, like there's a reason why back then people had many children, not because they were the product of love but because they had titles to lend and they needed to ensure that they would pass to someone in their lineage, after all, Corlys said it himself "History does not remember BLOOD, It remembers NAMES"

Viserys isn't some sort of pervert for marrying someone younger than him, that was normal in Westeros, women were considered old and barren as soon as they turned 24 (exaggeration), do you really think lords married young girls to prey on their beauty and youth? No! They married 15-year-olds because they were fertile and because of the advantages the marriage would bring to them, a marriage was never simply because "they are beautiful"

People need to stop putting so much blame on Viserys, does he deserve it? probably, but greenies often forget that Otto was the one who pimped out his daughter, and put all the blame on Viserys as if he had requested the guards to bring Alicent to his chambers as if he had made the first move.

"oh but he told her not to tell Rhaenyra" Wrong, he ASKED If she had told Rhaenyra, why would he ask her not to tell Rhaenyra, what, 6 months after they started seeing each other?

One last thing, Alicent did have a choice, she could've told Viserys "My dad sent me to comfort you" and then acted like she misunderstood what Otto meant by it and if she didn't do that and went with her fathers plan she could've told Rhaenyra, that way she could've at least saved her relationship with her. After all, if Alicent had a right to get mad at Rhaenyra for not telling her she had gotten stuffed by Criston, Rhaenyra surely has a right to get mad that her best friend had been seeing HER dad behind her back for MONTHS

like seriously, he felt like her status was a sword of Damocles the first time she asked to have sex with him while she was drunk but didn't while she was completely sober and offered again?

If Criston Cole was able to say no to Rhaenyra to become his regular lover without fearing that she would do anything to him, then no, he didn't sleep with her out of fear that she would do something bad to him if he refused. We have to stop this bullshit after a while. The character's actions do not fit your abuse / rape scenario. The scene is not written as such, nor shot or performed as such. It's written, filmed and performed as a completely consensual sex scene.

TG needs to decide if Viserys is a passive idiot who doesn't know how to to anything and is easily manipulated or an abusive manipulative asshole who made alicent and their kids lives hell just for the fun of it

Cause the amount of posts of people saying that he's an idiot with no agency I've seen is crazy, just to scroll and see that the next post is some rant about how Viserys strung alicent and aegon along by making them think that aegon would be king

Which by the way I think it's ridiculous, if he wanted Aegon to think he was going to be king he would've I don't know let him have a seat in the council meetings? Or make him cupbearer? Oh no wait, he made Rhanenyra do those things