Bts Wisdom - Tumblr Posts
October 29, 2019 -- final night of the Love Yourself: Speak Yourself Tour. (Eng Sub)
"I thought about what loving myself actually is. I didn't know, so I asked, "Do you want to find out together?" and that's how it started..... [now that this Love Yourself Era is over] So, if I ask myself, 'do you really love yourself?' Honestly, I don't know yet. But, I think that I can. The Love Yourself, Speak Yourself concept might end here, but the method and path to loving ourselves is not over. So moving forward, let us hold hands and continue to love ourselves, okay?... In the future, I hope there is one word, one lyric of ours that will help you in loving yourself." -- Kim Namjoon, 25 years old
When this man speaks about mental health and loving yourself, I listen. He has walked through it. When he says, "Because of you, I was able to live this far. Believe me.", he's not exaggerating.
And the fact that in his music he invites us into his journey of surviving himself -- "Do you want to find out together?" -- has no doubt saved lives.
Honestly. "Do you want to find out together?" The generosity of that statement will always astound me.
TW: suicidal ideation mentions below in the description of his past lyrics:
This concert was:
10 months after the MAMA 2018 awards, when they sobbed on the platform and revealed they had considered disbanding.
Almost 3 years after he published "Always" to soundcloud on New Years day, 2017 (TW: suicidal ideation) (translation by doolset)
I wished that I was dead I wish someone killed me In this loud silence,
I live to understand the world, but the world has never understood me, why No, exactly half is missing It's trying to harm me
I miss me, miss me baby I miss me, miss me baby, I wish me, I wish me baby Wish I could choose me.
3 years after the Wings album release on Oct 10, 2016, with the song "Reflection" (translation by doolset)
But you know, sometimes I really, really hate myself In fact, quite often, I really hate myself When I hate myself so much, I come to Ttukseom I just stand here with the familiar darkness People who are smiling, a beer that makes me smile, and the fear that gently approaches me and holds my hand It's okay - everyone is in twos and threes -- [it's nice, fear is my] friend The world is another name for despair.
It strikes me that the "Love Yourself" era followed Wings. And it makes me think the era is absolutely not BTS trying to come up with some 'positive heartwarming thing to appeal to the world' and is instead the result of their main lyricist (and, probably Suga, their main member-producer) needing to rescue himself in order to continue on. Their Map of the Soul era seems like a very natural continuation of their own psychological journey.
And almost 8 years since he released a pre-debut song on soundcloud titled "Suicide" on January 1, 2012 (wow, New Years is not a great time for him). He was 17.
I've walked this long way from home to find my real utopia But, now I got no place to go and now I feel agoraphobia Can't describe how lonely I am, I know this isn't a game ..... I'll wait for you, I'll stay for you If I think I'm made for you Just for you, what's made for you. Don't know your name yet, but just for you They always say, one day you'll be way better but I don't believe their chatter Honestly, I'm falling up the ladder, maybe this will be my last letter
This is still one of the sweetest and most sincere YoonJin moments
"I hope we don't just consider the future as grim darkness. We have people who are concerned for the world & searching for answers. There are still many pages left in the story about us & I feel like we shouldn't talk like the ending has already been written"
#BTSatUNGA
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“We will be a generation that welcomes change.“”
—
2021, SEOKJIN, Kim
happy birthday to the leader of our lives, the man who believed in bangtan before any of us did, kim namjoon! ❍ 940912 ↳ #aRMysEternaLove #NamjooningDay cr.: namuspromised (memories 2020 & sy japan) & jeonxm (in the soop 1)
“In the end, it’s really important for me to ask about who I am, and I want to express who I found myself out to be, but I’m having a really difficult time because I don’t know if what I found is right. So for now, ‘Bicycle’ is also the result of collecting the selves I found who I think represent the best of me. Even while making a song like ‘Bicycle,’ I have to convey – how do I put this? It’s just about me, this kid from outside the big city – an essence that I can’t get rid of, I guess. I can’t let go of the kid who used to perform in Hongdae. It’s not really something I want to express or hold onto; it’s my essence, so I don’t really have a choice. (laughs)” — RM, 2021
(BTS)
Track 10. Adrift -- RM mixtape, 2015
I don’t know what we live for The say we live for happiness, but I don’t understand what it even means
There are so many things in the world that I can neither know nor see Those words that adults say, ‘you’ll get to know with time’, can’t seem to ease my mind
(translation by doolset)
The mindlessly learned helplessness like the water that falls through the cracks between rocks. Though it somewhat feels like I should get up and storm out of the room to try and resist all the the things that represent frustration, those pointed fingers that say to just stay -- stay where I am. Tried reading books and read some more, tried those unfamiliar things starting with 'untact.' Even tried working out at home. Tried delivery food too. Wasn't it a year in which we tried everything we could do in our small rooms? Though we are still going on like this.
.... Will spring really come this time, will a real spring-like spring come? Although I'm not going to expect anything because I don't want to be disappointed, I think -- after all, those who hold on tight, even to fragments of, to the last ray of hope to be able to wake from sleep again -- isn't that what people are? I engrave in my heart once again the fact that I'm receiving the loving and affectionate eyes of lots of people amidst all this, even in this cold winter, and I determinedly say to myself: I won't break easily. Even if there is no one around, I'm listening.
Even though I said to myself, let's write something a bit short and simple while sending off this year, seeing the overflowing train of words, I think there's still a long way to go until I become a large, beautiful tree. Even if I prune every day, the clear and faint words and imaginations climb up the back of my head and grow. The thought that I get of not being able to live on without reaching my hand out and waving it around, even in an empty void, is probably just how I originally am. Adults around me said that, "you're the type of person who has to calm down, let your anger out a bit." Not even anger, but anger.
...
The sunset is hanging from the ends of the eaves. To the many specks of dust like me who try hard to float in order to remain in any form within this blue dot [the Earth], and also to those familiar cold smiles and rules on the outside that threaten and try to swallow us whole, I write a letter. That this one year wasn't in vain. In the end, I can't think of anything but the word 'love', but I write again liek this, searching aimlessly for somewhat better words that have not been worn out. Within these days of exhaustion, thank you for willingly being with us on this tiring journey. ... Do remember, they can't cancel the spring.
-Kim Namjoon (January 1, 2021)
[I swear I tried to only type out the important bits.... but it was all so gosh darn beautiful it was hard to make any cuts.]
dumb and dumber 😂 (for @agustdfeatrm ♡)
HAPPY BIRTHDAY NAMJOON🍃 (A.K.A. the sweetest, most wisest bean) (cr. dwellingsouls)
I think this was a good question and an excellent answer.
Because BTS is so precious to us, I think it's easy to worry that one day they won't be there anymore - especially because it's very easy to imagine how stressful and overwhelming their lives can be.
This made me think more about RM speaking in his Vogue interview about wanting to be known for things outside of BTS and pointing out how the frenetic pace BTS has been going just isn't sustainable:
“I want to be recognized as someone other than a member of BTS, and I want to create other types of art,” he says. “I have many dreams, including the dream of living in the quiet countryside, where I can read and study. I’m very happy now, but I find the pace of life quite overwhelming. I want to find the right pace for myself someday.”
On the surface, these comments do seem at odds with his tearful end-ments at PTD-LA. Instead of proclaiming how he's going to be doing this when he's 30, 40, 50.... he's talking about a life outside of BTS, living in the countryside and finding his current life overwhelming.
But I think we need to remember what we love about BTS (and especially Namjoon) is their willingness to ask questions and share those questions and walk through their growth with us.
It's like what Namjoon said in his ments at the end of the Love Yourself Tour (sorry, I'm not going to go look up the exact quote right now, so this is a paraphrase): "When we started this, I didn't know what loving myself was. I didn't know how to do that. So this series was me saying - "Let's find out together.""
Wings/HYYH included "Reflection" - "I wish I could love myself", and the next series, BTS invited us on the journey WITH them as they looked for that answer. MOTS:7 invited us on the journey WITH them as they looked back at their past.
Namjoon once said (paraphrased again, sorry! It's in one of my old posts if you want to find it):
"I'm a type of person who always has duality in me. So when people ask me if I'm happy, I never know how to answer that. Even when I'm happy, I remember the pain that brought me there, and when I'm sad, I can remember happy times too. I think that is just the way I am. The problem isn't me, the problem is the question. The question is too simple. Instead of asking myself, "Am I happy in this moment?" I think we should ask ourselves, "Do I love this moment?"
When we reflect on these words, and who Namjoon has shown himself consistently to be as a person, it should not surprise us that "I want to be known for things outside of BTS" / "I find this pace of life quite overwhelming" can exist side-by-side with "You are my meaning" / "I'm going to be doing this even better when I'm 30, 40, 50."
By bringing this points up in this interview, Namjoon is sharing the questions he is currently working on -- just like how to love himself. He wants to be here when he's fifty. He needs to figure out how to make that sustainable. He's actively exploring it. He's doing this by thinking about the length of a painters career and the type of legacy painters leave.
Namjoon explores questions with his music. Since I can't imagine him ever not having questions, it's hard for me to imagine him not making music. Right now, he is incorporating the experience of art into how he's writing his music: to make it more of an experience of all the senses, a lived moment. (OH MY GOSH, I CAN"T WAIT TO HEAR THE OUTCOME OF THAT. I think he he already started that process in his Mono playlist and even those first footsteps onto the path were a life-altering experience for me.) Right now, he's thinking about how to make his music more timeless - so it can speak to someone a hundred years from now like a painting can.
So these tensions he's facing in his life aren't forces that will pull him away from music, but forces that he will use his music to explore. RM sharing these tensions is NOT him saying "I don't know if I can do this anymore" and instead him saying, "this is the inspiration for my music right now."
And I'm glad he's thinking about how to slow his lifestyle down. Honestly, it's heart wrenching to watch him bring work with him on Bon Voyage or listen to Jin on ITS2 talk about how RM works all the time. We know that even as a new debut, he and Suga were staying up until dawn writing their music even after their days training with the rest of the team were done.
It was honestly heart breaking in his interview with Vogue when he said, "But I debuted at age 19, and I’m told I represent my country now at age 27, and people ask me what I’m going to do next..... The expectations people have of me, and the pressure I put on myself, are too great. I imagine even if I work in a completely different field in the future, people will still expect me to accomplish something, and I might not be able to meet those expectations."
What an absolutely exhausting feeling. I would want to crawl into a cave and hide for a decade.
This idea I know its adorable how much JK admires RM, but I think we tend to forget that the admires him for a reason. RM has worked SO hard for BTS. Even Suga has openly said several times that "the leader has more responsibilities." Every single time JK writes one of those rolling papers, he says "I know this must be hard for you."
We know that we know that we know that we know that RM loves BTS. He's said it so many times, and many of these times have been extremely recent. We know he wants to keep making music with them. If we want RM here when he's fifty, sitting in a circle on a stage while we sing along, then these are the questions he needs to answer. And I'm so happy he shared them with us. I look forward to learning alongside him.
I would love to hear your thoughts on RM’s recent comments - in the vogue interview saying he wants to be known outside of BTS, in the same interview saying he doesn’t want to say he loved Army anymore, but instead respects them and hopes they respect the parallel paths they’re on, and then his comments to billboard about not liking the English songs and his weverse letter that was interpreted as him expressing dissatisfaction with BTS’ creative direction. Do you think he’s done with the group?
No.
Discussion of the weverse letter
Discussion of RM's english song statement
Discussion of the GQ / VOGUE interview
Discussion of other recent moments and sappiness
TLDR: Even if I didn't go through one by one, I'd never worry about such things
But while we're here, let's enjoy how fine Namjoon looks in Vogue so this post is more worth it haha. I hope I'm not boring you with obvious thoughts.
Let's first about the weverse letter: How anyone could read his beautiful weverse letter (I assume you didn't mean this one?) about feeling great doubt in a time where everything was in flux and how it drove his self-reflection, and think it's about disbandment is... just wild to me. Read the letter again, please. And this time, don't bother with "[how it] was interpreted" - by who? I hate the passive tense that purposely hides the hands of people shaping narratives. Let me ask you directly: how do you interpret it?
As I interpreted it, it was from someone coming out of the deep winter, telling us his most vulnerable thoughts.
As others interpret it... well, they're always interpreting nonsense. HYBE announce BTS are on break and explicitly made clear in the announcement it's temporary so it's not a repeat of 2019 where 'media' and ARMY without reading comprehension thought they were disbanding, and still people made that mistake. And also dragged up something something about mental health, which is a real issue in Korea and also with BTS, but literally not relevant to them taking time off to spend the holidays with family like a normal person.
Also, may I say? Why were people so shocked that he had a hard time and questioned the worth of their career -- just like everybody else? Don't you remember Jimin saying the same in the BE interviews? Or just recently with the PTD October online concert in Korea, JK? And I dont have an example off the top of my head, but I know Jin, Suga, and Hobi said something similar.
And... did anyone expect RM to not feel this? He's now speaking about things, in his lyrical way, but how can it be a surprise that he questioned his self-worth (if you read the moments in the PTD in LA concert, he & V talked about even questioning if there'd be any ARMY left - because we didn't feel 'real' to them remotely), because they are... say it with me, performing artists.They literally couldn't do what they wanted to do.
Now, that's changing, and I'm so glad they've made it through.
Let's talk about the comment about not liking the English songs: Was it the Billboard interview where he mentioned that? I can't remember, but I do explicitly remember that he phrased that very carefully. That some members did not want to release English songs. You can extrapolate that he was speaking on behalf of the group, that they wanted that info out there, but obviously he did not misspeak to mention multiple members, and to also not specify anyone.
And honestly, I could've literally told you that was the case.
I was very new to ARMY then, but triangulation is truly very informative. If you roll back to when Dynamite released - when BE was already underway - Namjoon and Yoongi were clearly most flippant about it ("Why not? We'll see what happens"). And if you read interviews with the Dynamite songwriters (this is why it pays to be an industry nerd and not just a fandom or shipperverse nerd), David Stewart mentioned that they submitted Dynamite because they heard "BTS" was looking for an English breakthrough song, and that they spoke/worked with Ron Perry.
Take one leap with that: quite obviously Columbia and Ron Perry wanted English songs to get them to the next level or whatever in America, and for obvious reasons they likely hesitated - because of everything from them being proudly in-house produced (mostly) to them not being fluent English speakers (mostly) to them being rightfully annoyed about Columbia's lack of faith or effort (not going to go into it, but you can go down the music industry rabbit hole to see in what ways Columbia super under-performed in promotion activities for their Korean releases in America - part of it is external xenophobia, certainly, but the other part is internal xenophobia within Columbia and maybe incompetence).
You can even make educated guesses on who resisted. I'd bet my monet it's Namjoon and Yoongi, and maybe Hobi & Jimin. Namjoon & Yoongi are quite obvious: The above observation abour their attitude towards Dynamite. Yoongi sticking multiple times to speaking Korean on a world stage (see AMAs) and on all his collabs. Namjoon saying he was "twice as proud" of Life Goes On hitting #1 as "Dynamite" because it's in Korean and their song. And being extremely sharp in his call-outs of the American music industry, Namjoon obviously knew the power dynamics at play in that moment.
I say Hobi & Jimin because I think Hobi has a similar attitude towards localism as Yoongi (less obvious, but clear - look again at the lyrics of Chicken Noodle Soup, how Becky G is rapping in Spanish and the way the song is all about pride of where you come from); and as Jimin has said before, he highly prefers songs that come from the group, with lyrics he strongly connects with.
[At the same time, of course, I want to say I believe they were sincere about just putting out something that was easy and what they could do then with Dynamite. No one at this stage of their career can truly force their hand, and they clearly do genuinely enjoy Dynamite even if it's not one of the songs likely to make their personal top 10. And honestly, the gamble didn't cost much, esp during the pandemic. Both sides of what I'm saying are true - hence Namjoon and Yoongi's clear ambivalence and the nonchalant way the Dynamite pre-release promo rolled out]
[One member I would say was onboard is likely Tae, who obviously has self-composed multiple English songs now and considers it an effective way to reach more ARMY]
... What the heck does this have to do with Namjoon exiting BTS? If they don't (or he doesn't) like the English songs... they can release Korean songs? What's BE - a whole album in between Dynamite and Butter & PTD in Korean - pork chop?
You can clearly see they're working out ways to make the English songs more authentically theirs - the affection they have for Butter, for PTD (they built their entire return concert set around it, when they could've gone for any concept, and even ended with it), even for My Universe if you want to add that on, is clearly multitudes higher than for Dynamite. When the boys say they appreciate a song, I have no reason to disbelieve them. PTD and My Universe are personally not to my tastes, but I can see that sincerity and affection, as always.
And you can clearly see them slash their whole management (*cough* Bang PD) correcting for the difference of views in their success... by them literally leaving Columbia for Universal. This is not often talked about in fandom, but it's a big deal. I don't even intend to give that much shade to Perry - he was, ultimately, right about what it would take to break through in the US market, and he seems to have actually contributed creatively to Butter, which I admit I was skeptical of when I saw his credit on it - but BTS clearly wants to shift gears.
But actually, what does that tell you? That BTS, and by extension RM, do actually have control over their careers, and therefore make the adjustments in creative direction that they want. Even RM putting that out there with the rest of BTS silently supporting him is itself a sign of agency over their creative career (and no, he didn't say it lightly, and obviously they agreed to let that be noted - again, notice how carefully phrased that comment was).
None of these things are signs of lack of commitment or wanting out, they're a sign of the opposite. And honestly, I'm genuinely looking forward to their new English releases, if any are in the future, with this new direction. Or not. Whatever BTS wants most to say in the present moment, I will listen.
About the current GQ & Vogue interview: I'm not going to comment yet on the GQ interview as the official English translation isn't out yet (will be on 12/23 on GQ Australia, so 2 days!) - except to say that he sounds as profound as always, and that he seems to be thinking a lot about how he wants his relationship to ARMY / his fans to progress, and feels that his old model of love is no longer adequate. I'll edit this when the real translation comes, but it's nothing strange at all. The sort of person who thinks their relationship with ARMY shouldn't change is the sort of person who thinks marital bliss is acting the same way with your spouse when you're 40 as when you're 21. Questions and change show you're still invested, in fact, they represent a deepening.
Now, the Vogue interview. These are the sections you're talking about?
Please note what RM says about how you can be two things at once, even four. He feels a sense of responsibility. But also joy.
Sometimes I think Namjoon is just too profound and nuanced for stan twt who can apparently only comprehend DISBAND NOW and NO DISBAND. There's such a thing as realizing there will one day be an end - or at least alternative paths before you return back together - and also being happy with where you are and the moment ij which you're currently live. You can, as he does, ponder your legacy, and what else you want to do as an artist (of all types, not just music)... but also be deeply committed to being a musical artist, as made obvious by the dude literally going to the studio and prepping for their new album while in the US.
This is to me, literally no different than V saying one day he wants to open his own art exhibition. In fact, it's reassuring in the same way, in the sense that they see their careers as stretching out long before them.
They have lives and dreams outside of BTS - that doesn't give me an existential crisis, it makes me happy they're where they want to be at any given time.
In conclusion:
I actually just want to make two points.
First - instead of focusing in narrowly, again, please consider the totality of things and info that contradict your hypothesis.
From the same Vogue interview, here's Suga talking about how he'll always be a part of BTS. If BTS was gone tomorrow, Namjoon would certainly tell Suga, yeah? But critically, he sees BTS as part of him, what he'll always be - he obviously leaces room for things he'll do in addition. I mean, he kind of already does with his producing. But it's not an either/or question, it's a when question and a to what degree question. But BTS, as he indicates, is the foundation. And there's no BTS without seven, for any of them (as you all should know).
And let's talk about Namjoon himself. I think what prickled me most off from the 'data points' here in your ask is the idea that Namjoon's love for ARMY is somehow lacking.
You may not have been there or seen the D4 livesstream, so I'll remind you how touched Namjoon was in front of ARMY, live, 3 weeks ago? (And so long after this interview your ask is predicated on) Here is what he said to us (211204):
"I will remember this moment in my 40s, 50s, 60s. You guys are the proof for our existence, our value, our breath, our love, our everything - you guys are our goddamn proof. [Cheers] We are the bullets, you guys are our proof, and so we are truly bulletproof. Thank you so much."
(Omg i'm tearing up like I did then, as I type this - like Namjoon, who started getting teary after his ment)
And that's a perfect transition to the final thing I want to say: I literally never worry about the future of BTS. Literally never.
I mean, I do to some extent - freak accident tragedies in my morbid moments, like a couple of months ago when a singer who's very important to my mom passed away due to COVID. But the common things people worry about? Enlistment and disbandment and intra-team conflicts, etc etc? Never.
Not to be cheesy, but to be honest with you, I always have in mind what Jimin once articulated to us, of them one day being too old to dance anymore, so the "Bangtan Papas" will sit in a circle and sing to me, and I'll sing back. I often think about having my (future) kid there too, so that this love of BTS would live even beyond me.
Of course, I don't know this is in our future. But I trust and hope, as I'm sure Jimin does, as I'm sure they all do.
Here are three other things I trust:
1) that BTS are where they want to be at any moment, or that the members will collectively help each other get there shortly
2) that I will always be surprised (in a good way) by them so there's no need to fear
[So honestly, even if they did disband on a semi-permanent basis? I trust they'll be doing what they prefer, they'll stay in each other's lives, and they will always exist in my 'magic shop' - as RM mentions, that's a legacy]
3) that they are bonded to each other like I am bonded to them forever, inextricably, no matter what happens in life
So like Yoongi will always be a BTS member, I'll always be ARMY.
Thanks to Namjoon for always speaking truly and sincerely with us, for those willing to hear.