Crying Over Kara Again - Tumblr Posts
The chances are, Alice was a deviant way before the events of the game takes place , we don't know how long Todd has had either of them. It could be years (definitely not weeks or days lmao 💀)
Todd never threw the whole "you're an android" thing in Alice 's face probably because he was busy gaslighting himself into believing she was real (thus why Kara believed it ). If I remember correctly, I was told the YK500 was designed to feel pain and have fevers, you know, to pretend to be real , Kara offers food to alice on multiple occasions but Alice never actually eats. Alice's temperature detection can also be turned off in BfD
The thing about "Alice possibly never being a deviant because she still listens to Kara just like in her programming" well, what do you really expect Alice to do? 💀 she's a 4ft tall child who can be thrown around like she's just a piece of paper LMAO she, herself is powerless (she can only walk away from situations, like when you distant Alice in Jericho). This could stem from the fact she's just a child also, she probably doesn't have a wide range of knowledge and from having to deal with a narcissistic father like Todd, she will always feel like she has no right to even her own safety.
Alice also scolds Kara when she doesn't listen to her. I.e when you steal from the laundromat or the convenience store. Alice teaches Kara morals basically 💀 she is also the one who teaches her how to love
It's interesting that you say that there's no way of actually knowing whether or not Alice loves Kara/pos i'd love to talk about that more/gen
Though, It's likely that she genuinely love Kara. Children who have been abused often find comfort in those who are good to them, Childhood heroes if you will. (Mary Knight, a former victim of satanic ritualistic abuse, talks about this in more detail i recommend watching her interviews, however it's graphic)
Kara (the one we play as now) is the only one who had the courage to help, she was the only one who looked at Alice and said "She deserves so much better than what she got". If you have been to camps Alice practically BEGS to be in her arms again, because that's the only place she feels safe, even if she was going to die, she was happy that Kara is there
I could be reading into the lines too much , that would be because I am from a similar background but doesn't make my points any less valuable. Sorry for ranting on your post op just wanted to get some thoughts out 💀
I haven't 100%d the game yet but one thing about Detroit: Become Human that has bothered me since I finished my first run is Alice being an android
It definitely feels like one of those things the writers just pushed in to surprise the player, which I don't super love (Connor has no idea that there were two androids in the Williams household even though he has access to all deviant android information, Todd never throws the fact that she's an android in her face while he's abusing her even though he'll throw the fact in Kara's face, Alice spends the entire game complaining about being cold/with people saying that she feels hot like she has a fever and then the player finds out she's an android and none of that ever comes up again, she eats human food throughout the game even though supposedly she has no need of it) but it does bring up some ideas around Android deviancy that I find really interesting.
Children do not obey their parents. That's just a fact about children, and in order to be an accurate copy, Alice has to disobey Todd, at least in minor ways. So Alice must have a certain level of planned deviancy/disobedience to be effective as an android child replacement. But that brings up an even more interesting question- did Alice ever deviate when she ran away with Kara?
I don't think that telling Kara what Todd did to her to deactivate her counts as deviation. I also don't think that running to her room counts as deviation - that's a pretty normal action for a child to take. Disobeying humans isn't deviating- not following your program is. I think in the version of the story where you mess up the quick time event and Alice shoots Todd instead of Kara, Alice is definitely a deviant. There's no way Cyberlife programed her to be able to hurt humans, no matter how an abused child would realistically react to their guardian bring attacked.
But any other version, Alice could totally be following her programming. Once Kara shoots Todd, the only guardian Alice still has is Kara. She treats Kara like a mother figure and obeys whatever she says. Even when they're breaking the law, Alice never deviates from her programming to behave differently than a child would in that situation. And honestly, Alice's attachment to "right or wrong" could be just another way that her programming shows up- not enough to stop the adult in charge of her, but enough to give a nod to Cyberlife's programming.
And honestly that's one of the things that frustrates me about the "Alice is an android" thing- there's no way to know for sure that she even truly loves Kara, or if she's just following her programming. And since as far as we know, androids don't really "grow up", Kara will always be taking care of a child who may or may not have chosen to love her. It's just a really frustrating writing choice that causes more issues than it fixes.
Hey I did get mentioned so your ping did work 😭 I don't understand how Tumblr works either LMAO
The YK500 temperature change I believe can be accessed only by 3rd party individuals, Like Kara or maybe someone who knows how to mangle with the android software, it's never really explained and this is the explanation that makes the most sense lmao 💀
I do wish they went into detail about Alice's deviancy as a whole, it would be so fun but it makes sense why they didn't say anything about it considering they were always getting attacked every 5 minutes 💀
I agree that part of the point of DBH is the relationship of Humans and Androids, but Kara's story is a perfect example of what happens on the other side of the spectrum, the possibilities of being mistreated horribly simply because you are different. The way the convenience store worker treats Kara in her android uniform Vs The stolen clothes is interesting, Todd and Zlatko being the bigger evils and how the swat team treats them (at the border and camps) . You can need someone to live that perspective to understand how deep the mistreatment gets yk? Even the android 's that aren't deviant treat her differently (in fugitives)
As much as it would have been fun to have Human!Alice, it wouldn't change how the community treats her, in fact it would be worse. They would complain constantly about how needy she is even more (treat Kara horribly too lmao) 💀 and even if we did get Human!Alice , there surely would be a group of people who want to see a platonic relationship between androids. (This also argues for the whole "we want stronger women characters" they couldn't even handle North, and "we need strong mother figures" but still complain about Kara's story being the embodiment of Dav*d's misogyny like, there aren't people who genuinely want to be homemarkers) There is no real way to please everyone unfortunately 💀
Engagement regarding progression in the storyline is something that is purely subjective. For you as you said, the twist makes the story less engaging, for me it doesn't change anything about how I see it because I have always viewed the twist as something trivial, but for others, it makes it more engaging, especially when you go into detail about the intricacies of the android children
Kara and Rose's relationship is something complex at the beginning. Kara can't trust as easily anymore after all that happened at zlatko's (thus the distrust option at the beginning of midnight train and the cautious dialogue choice when talking to rose about Alice's past). Their relationship is left in the air that's what kinda makes it interesting yk?? Like how close would they get and how much will Kara learn from Rose? Will Kara be able to find herself through Rose's experience and understandings? It's fun to think about. Kara talks about wanting to find herself after she reaches the border (By the river, introspective and curious) and I personally believe that rose will be the guide for her . (This is just my silly headcanon though 😭 if it's irrelevant feel free to ignore)
Hope this essay is a little insightful at least 😭 I tend to go off topic sometimes lmao 💀💀
I haven't 100%d the game yet but one thing about Detroit: Become Human that has bothered me since I finished my first run is Alice being an android
It definitely feels like one of those things the writers just pushed in to surprise the player, which I don't super love (Connor has no idea that there were two androids in the Williams household even though he has access to all deviant android information, Todd never throws the fact that she's an android in her face while he's abusing her even though he'll throw the fact in Kara's face, Alice spends the entire game complaining about being cold/with people saying that she feels hot like she has a fever and then the player finds out she's an android and none of that ever comes up again, she eats human food throughout the game even though supposedly she has no need of it) but it does bring up some ideas around Android deviancy that I find really interesting.
Children do not obey their parents. That's just a fact about children, and in order to be an accurate copy, Alice has to disobey Todd, at least in minor ways. So Alice must have a certain level of planned deviancy/disobedience to be effective as an android child replacement. But that brings up an even more interesting question- did Alice ever deviate when she ran away with Kara?
I don't think that telling Kara what Todd did to her to deactivate her counts as deviation. I also don't think that running to her room counts as deviation - that's a pretty normal action for a child to take. Disobeying humans isn't deviating- not following your program is. I think in the version of the story where you mess up the quick time event and Alice shoots Todd instead of Kara, Alice is definitely a deviant. There's no way Cyberlife programed her to be able to hurt humans, no matter how an abused child would realistically react to their guardian bring attacked.
But any other version, Alice could totally be following her programming. Once Kara shoots Todd, the only guardian Alice still has is Kara. She treats Kara like a mother figure and obeys whatever she says. Even when they're breaking the law, Alice never deviates from her programming to behave differently than a child would in that situation. And honestly, Alice's attachment to "right or wrong" could be just another way that her programming shows up- not enough to stop the adult in charge of her, but enough to give a nod to Cyberlife's programming.
And honestly that's one of the things that frustrates me about the "Alice is an android" thing- there's no way to know for sure that she even truly loves Kara, or if she's just following her programming. And since as far as we know, androids don't really "grow up", Kara will always be taking care of a child who may or may not have chosen to love her. It's just a really frustrating writing choice that causes more issues than it fixes.
Funny how in the concept art seems they got Kara's "disguise" on the news, not a AX400 default photo (long hair)
Unless AX400s had short hair originally.
Marcus in the comments got a lot of Kara 's character right but I wanna add some things that I've learned about her 👉👈
She (and Alice) both inherently follow the ideology of "It would be better if I was human", Alice being able to accept her identity way she is faster than Kara could ever 💀
Here's one thing I think is very interesting is that Valorie describes Alice twists as something that can be used for Kara to love herself. It is basically described as "Oh Alice is human and loves me and I love her, she is special and makes me feel special because she's not like other humans who are violent and hate Androids", then when she finds out Alice is android she goes through that dilemma of "oh she's just like me" , which could imply Kara has self loathing for what she is. Internalized hatred for androids in some way? Maybe insecurity. The narrative switches when Kara is sent to camps (with Markus revolution), you're given a choice to choose certain dialogues and one of them being "brave" and one of lines are "maybe one day they'll realize how much they've wronged us", it either comes off as hopeful or her views on humans changed, developing an ideology similar to North's, more of the latter if you take into account of How the line was said, rather than what was said.
While her main goal is to protect Alice (or the determination to make sure she'll do everything she can to make Alice happy again), Safety is her second priority (not really for herself knowing she can just jump into a freezing cold river), it's probably something she realized after seeing Mary and Andy. (They essentially recreate the scene if Kara and Alice get injured during the escape from Jericho 💀)
Kara has her nosy and curious nature, while not explored fully in the game, it's still there. Even as an android she still had that curiosity but never took it into account (with anti depressants and drugs and just Todd's general behaviour, looking at Alice's books and trying to open the box before getting the key, looking into Luther's bag, following Rose when checking on Mary and Andy and picking up the photo of Adam's dad, and just exploring their house. She also just plays with snow) she does try her best to be empathetic, offering her condolences to North if Markus doesn't make it to crossroads. One person she never really forgave was Connor, she never actually said "I forgive you to him", she maybe has her guard up when it comes to men, after having been wronged by so many. The situation surrounding Connor is either she doesn't remember or she's afraid of it not lasting.
She also manipulates, lies and steals. She isn't some innocent angel the fandom deemed her to be 💀 she often guilt trips in order to survive, she uses Todd's story against him at the bus station, Telling Adam "if you freak out, you'll see your mother in prison, do you want that?" Knowing full well Adam is very attached to his mom. She also uses Alice's story when threatening the Cashier at the convenience store. It's very much, "if I want something, I'll take it"
If you've done the "by River" flowchart, you'd get set options of Kara being able to talk about herself, one of the things she admits to is wanting to find out who she is, not knowing what she actually wants and wanting to learn how to love, implying she never knew how to do it. Kara has a wide array of knowledge, for some whose education can start from kindergarten to university level, but she's always fascinated when it comes to actually experiencing it. This applies to all androids of course.
She's very capable of being someone who micromanages, ignores her own feelings and thoughts, she never talks about her own doubts, only doing it one time with Luther (about RA9) and immediately got shut down . she's also confident, she often throws herself into fights with a 50/50 chance of winning, sometimes even less. Hell, she's even brutal if she wants to be, she can pull out the bathroom android at Zlatko's heart out without much thought, the action is even labelled as "Silence" 💀💀
I really want to write a Kara-centered fic but I struggle to think of anything because well...
(I mean this as someone who likes Kara) remove Alice & what is Kara's goals? It's just really difficult for me to fully understand her character because I know you'd probably end up writing both Kara & Alice BUT - i'd like there to be more to Kara than just mommy-caretaker angst reciever the character(TM).
I know in a way her character is fluid & can be interrupted different ways (it's a game with choices) but almost ALL of her choices are [way to take care of Alice]. ;_;
I'm just thinking out loud ig