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I know Cus is the oldest, and I saw somewhere that Whis and Vados are relatively younger than the other siblings (maybe Merus became the youngest in that group after his appearance).
How much older do you think Cus is? And what could be the age range/difference of the rest of the angels
I will split this ask into birth order, then age differences/range.
My thoughts and ramblings about this subject:
I will introduce what we know so far about this universe and how it would aid us a bit in thinking of the ages of the angels.
The Earth itself is 4.54 billion years old.
Universe 7 is approximately around 26.7 billion years.
1000 millions = 1 billion, so anyone is over 1000 million years is counted as a billion.
There are two questions to ask and to think.
Are some of the angels older than the Universes themselves?
Or are some of the angels may be younger than the Universes but older than a planet like Earth?
Unfortunately, what I can give you are some assumptions and guesses due to lack of information provided on this subject.
What we know so far, yes Cus is the oldest, Korn in the manga is confirmed to be older than Whis, Vados is older than Whis but it does not tell us if Korn is older or younger than Vados and vice versa. Merus is the youngest angel who appeared in DB universe. And yeah, that's it. I like to see the source on Whis and Vados being relatively younger because I haven't seen it myself but I can agree they are young than some of their siblings but how much younger is debatable.
Using the incident when Old Kai was trapped in the Z sword hehe, and Chronoa becoming Supreme Kai of Time over 75 million years ago, I am sure the Angels are older than 75 million years, with an exception of Merus, as I headcanon him to be around 75 million years, being born in the most dramatic time in Universe 7 hehe. That would make him younger than Beerus and Champa (which make it interesting) as Beerus and Champa are more than 75 million years old.
Do I think any of the angels are in the billions of years rather in the millions of years? Yes, I think Cus, Martinu, Mojito and Awamo are in the billions of years old. I like to think there was less angels in proportion wise in the billions of years than in the millions of years, in simple terms, there are more angels who are in the millions of years than in the billions. This is very likely due to the universes were in the development stage and the Grand Minister seeing it all happening before he can test the universes himself then send his angels kids in.
I am currently imagining little Cus, Martinu, Mojito and bebe Awamo watching the planets formation with their father, Grand Minister. I find it a bit endearing.
(a small note: I assume there are other angels born as well, not just the 13 db canonically angels so it's not just 13 angels there haha)
The Birth Order:
(I decided not to use the appearances of the angels to assume the birth order because appearances are deceiving and can be changed). Also based on vibes (just kidding mostly)
Cus (confirmed to be the oldest/eldest),
Martinu
Mojito
Awamo
Cognac
Vados
Korn
Whis
Cukatail
Campari
Marcarita
Sour
Merus (confirmed to be the youngest of all of the 13 angels, who appeared in the DB universe, but not necessarily the youngest of the angels in general as there can be younger angels in training).
Age difference/range:
Cus - 7.2 billion years old
Martinu - 5.6 billion years old
Mojito - 5.1 billion years old
Awamo - 4.6 billion years old
Cognac - 860 million years old
Vados - 748 million years old
Korn - 710 million years old
Whis - 635 million years old
Cukatail- 584 million years old
Campari - 487 million years old
Marcarita - 429 million years old
Sour - 395 million years old
Merus - 75 million years old
That is my headcanon for the Angels ages. If you have your own angels age headcanons, I like to hear it. This is an interesting subject and thank you for the ask, anon.
A headcanon that all hakaishins/destroyers in the Universe 7 (including Beerus) had been all forms of kitty cats
This flows well with the Ancient Egyptian inspiration on the hakaishins beyond their design since cats in Ancient Egypt were typically divine symbols and protection by society at the time and were prized for example considering some famous and infamous Egyptian deities had cat-like heads e.g Bastet and Sekhmet. So perhaps most likely, cats forms beings are chosen to be gods of the universe (destroyer) due to this divine motif and I dare to say that cat like beings possesses more divine power/potential compared to most mortals before Beerus' time. A pattern had remains unbroken and if Goku or Vegeta became a hakaishin, they would be the first in Universe 7 not being a cat like form (though mentally Vegeta can be a cat sometimes ha ha ha I joke). But please imagine an orange cat hakaishin/destroyer doing weird orange cat behaviour which amuses and sometimes concerns Whis (Whis and the kais being the popular victims of the orange cat attacks), a separation anxiety tuxedo kitty hakaishin who Whis needs to put it to sleep sometimes because the tuxedo kitty hakaishin will not separate from Whis or anyone, 24/7 without fail, and will wreck stuff when they are alone, unhinged when alone but polite with others. A grey tabby hakaishin who has a nonsense approach, looks grumpy but is very sweet but is smart to retire early to become a judge. Maybe Universe 6 had many cat forms deities but for me, I like to think that Champa is the first cat form deity to be a hakaishin/destroyer, mostly due to him and Beerus being twins and exists at the same time and Whis and Vados liked to be close again after a period of distance by their hakaishins before Beerus and Champa. Would it be so cool that one point in time that all the 12 universe had all kitty cat hakaishins? A cat lover's dream and Quitela's nightmare.
A random fanfic idea ft Shin and Gowasu
I love to see Gowasu and Shin to interact more in general but also after the Moro Saga, this time their dynamic would be slightly different because Gowasu had lost Zamasu who he cared about him and in a way by interacting with Shin, there are some feeling of redemption because he sees Shin as a young fellow at least he won't screw up, and for Shin to develop some faith in himself and his abilities of maintenance of his universe. I don't see why not Gowasu helping Shin out in return of his presense give him some respite due to Gowasu was at Shin's side and wasn't happy to find out Shin wasn't invited during the Kaioshins meeting before the ToP really began. Whilst I don't think Gowasu knew exactly what happened to Shin during the Moro Saga but he knew it was serious since Whis planned with the intervention with Cus' assistance, ordered by Beerus because he is not taking any chances with Shin if Shin was wiling to give up his life to the Grand Priest, if Shin dies, he dies as well.
Unfortunately for some reason I cannot make any posts on tumblr but I can reblog and likes posts, I don’t know why, such a bother
I got an au idea of after the incident where most of the Kaioshins of the 7th Universe were killed or disappeared and considering how Zamasu was sparred with Kibito Kai that implies that Shin knew Zamasu and by extension Gowasu. I’m thinking likely in an attempt to humble his student quite a bit and have him to gain experience by his own accord (with attendants that reports to Gowasu) that Gowasu decided that Zamasu should be a temporary Supreme Kai of the 7th Universe with Gowasu visiting him and be a guide (hence the need of Zamasu’ attendants being loyal to him and can report him if Zamasu is having an issue) and Shin, to help him to recover as well to complete his training, is taken to the 10th Universe under Gowasu’s guide.
It would be interesting if Zamasu would try to Majin Buu and would he ally with the Earthings/Saiyans or uses them? The question I have for this role swap AU is that if Beerus have a life link with Shin or Zamasu, and I could imagine the conflict if Zamasu get attached to Universe 7 and vice versa with Shin in Universe 10 that they may decide to be Kaioshin in the others universes for longer or permanently.
A random fanfic idea ft Shin and Gowasu
I love to see Gowasu and Shin to interact more in general but also after the Moro Saga, this time their dynamic would be slightly different because Gowasu had lost Zamasu who he cared about him and in a way by interacting with Shin, there are some feeling of redemption because he sees Shin as a young fellow at least he won't screw up, and for Shin to develop some faith in himself and his abilities of maintenance of his universe. I don't see why not Gowasu helping Shin out in return of his presense give him some respite due to Gowasu was at Shin's side and wasn't happy to find out Shin wasn't invited during the Kaioshins meeting before the ToP really began. Whilst I don't think Gowasu knew exactly what happened to Shin during the Moro Saga but he knew it was serious since Whis planned with the intervention with Cus' assistance, ordered by Beerus because he is not taking any chances with Shin if Shin was wiling to give up his life to the Grand Priest, if Shin dies, he dies as well.
Thinking about Whis finding ways to wake up Lord Beerus from his 60+ years naps, perhaps out of boredom, curiosity or mischief (sometimes all three). He found and placed 50 cats on top of Lord Beerus’ bed to get him to wake up from his nap and he does, wondering why he hears loud meows for food and attention and more confused in why there are cats on his bed.
“Good morning, my Lord.”
Whis comes in with a cat in his arms and a smug look. Beerus would tell Whis after they are fed to put them in a safe place where they would be looked after but tell Whis to keep the cat he had on his hand so Whis would have something to do than bothering him. (Little he knows it, he will become close with the young cat as well, became a best friend before it passed away just before the hide and seek tournament or a century before the events of DB happened)
For the angels that has a non-pun name
...which is a few of them (Korn, Sour, Campari*) I wonder if they are less likely to use puns themselves in language or suggestions in naming things and likely their destroyer didn't take any their suggestions and name themselves before officially becoming a destroyer. Weird hc but in a nutshell: In angels, the ability of making puns is mostly hereditary and decided by the Grand Priest/Daishinkan. *I'm not entirely sure if Campari is Campari or Camparri like the wiki says, I use Campari because of the katakana used for his name.
Exploring the angels and the destroyers names if they match to any alcoholic categories
Introduction:
As we know it, the angels and destroyers names are a pun from alcohol/alcoholic drinks, this exploration was inspired by an ask I received some time ago (and I will answer that very soon, considering I finished my research for that.). I did this investigation to explore part 2 of that ask, I will link this post up when answering the ask.
In that section of the ask, it mentioned about if the destroyers were named after the same alcoholic category which their teacher and angel’s name belong to. I did it this way (angel-destroyer) because of an implication of the angels were always there and established before the current destroyers. (For example if Toppo became a destroyer in Universe 11, it was extremely likely Marcarita will remain as an angel of Universe 11 and now as Toppo’s official angel/teacher, sure she can be replaced when Belmod retires but that is inconvenient for angels to be replaced every time their destroyers retires for logistic reasons)
That had me thinking, was there any existing examples of the angels and destroyers names being in the same alcoholic categories and I give assumptions at the end to answer why this is often not the case.
Categories
I will use this word a lot. What categories counts here? The broad category which is liquor, wine and beer. For example if there is an angel called Moscato and the destroyer called Pino (after Pinot Noir), their names inspired by the wine drinks will belong to the broad wine category, but both won’t have a specific category because that is where the similarities ends as one is a red wine (Pinot Noir) and another one is white wine (Moscato).
The specific category if one pun name drink is a type or an ingredient of the another pun name drink so if Pisco is an angel and their destroyer is Arma (after Armagnac Brandy), their broad category is liquor and their specific category is Brandy as both are type of brandy. A specific category shows a much closer link to the names, could imply an inspiration from the angels for such destroyers to name themselves closer to the angel’s alcoholic name category.
The Excel
*I use spirit and liquor interchangeably here
The preview:
https://1drv.ms/x/c/de8d94cac4fe150f/EWEyxTcxTSVNo0ScVrRvmIEBHhdbynFKBG_zD7wR-TRIAQ?e=KPwwy5
The link to the excel for the results: https://1drv.ms/x/c/de8d94cac4fe150f/EWEyxTcxTSVNo0ScVrRvmIEBHhdbynFKBG_zD7wR-TRIAQ?e=KPwwy5
The Findings:
Out of the 12 universes, only six universes of the angels-destroyers names belongs to the same category, the broad liquor category was the most common, shown in Universe 3, 4, 5, 8 and 10. Universe 12 does show the liquor category as well but theirs is an exception as there is a much closer link to their names, as Gin (Geene) is a liquor also an ingredient and a component to a classic Martini (Martinu). This is the only example of a specific category.
Why in some universes, there are no matching names or names in the same categories for the deities
The rest of the universes (1, 2, 6, 7, 9 and 11) deities did not have a match of their names in any categories.
The main part is clear, whatever the reasons or factors, the Grand Zeno and Daishinkan approves of this showing the names matching in the same categories is optional, not compulsory.
Perhaps a long ago, the names of angels and destroyers belongs to the same alcoholic categories, broad or specific but Grand Zeno wanted variety and breaks some patterns.
Or it is out of the free will of the destroyers to name whatever they like regardless if it got a close link to their angels’ names or not. This is interesting to me because I got a headcanon that the angels names are chosen by Daishinkan whilst the destroyers can choose themselves or their angels’ suggestions. This shows the difference in status and subtle display of power (of choice) the destroyers has.
The joke wasn't really thought out, it was just for fun.
angel names formed from alcoholic beverage puns?
A little headcanon to consider if Daiishkan has more than the stated 13(18) children
Imagine that they were at some point defined into “domains” as a semblance of...Umm, what's the right name for it? “Family houses”?
But Daishinkan literally created a bar catalog “menu” based on his children's names and assigned them to Domains.
(Angels of WINE domain) This domain includes angels named after different wine brands.
For example: “WINE” domain —-> subclass red wine (pun names of red wine variety)/white wine (names of white wine variety) and so on
(Angels of the VODKA domain)
(Angels of the "COCKTAIL" domain)
And so on. What I mean is that even if the angels were born at different times and belong to different epochal generations, they will be defined in the same domain. Because their father likes to have fun. For example a 1st generation angel named “Chardonnay” from the Pink Wine variety, and a 4th generation angel named “Cortese” from the Pink Wine variety go into the same domain “WINE” of the" Pink Wine" subclass.
Or an even funnier thought!
I think if there were only 12 angels here. (Sorry, it's just that these dudes are already named like basic alcoholic beverages.)
The name Vados? - It's vodka. And the gods of destruction under its tutelage are called by names derived from the brand of vodka. (Arak, Maotai, Schnapps, Enzian)
(If, for example, Mojito doesn't have separate types and names for such a cocktail, its gods could be called by the names of the altered ingredients).
But And as it seems to me, then All-King Zeno will change the gods' name game so all they don't get even more confusing.
We love fun ideas and jokes here, as well as reading this idea of yours, OP. Daishinkan holding his menu which is his archive of his children/angels, organised by categories, just like a drinks menu on Planet Earth is a genius idea, OP, chef's kiss to you on this headcanon. Daishinkan and Grand Zeno can look the menu and pick a name where a hologram of their face and information comes up if Daishinkan and Grand Zeno uses a term to see if the angel had done something recently or in the long past.
Mini Headcanon 1: Alteration to the menu: ------------------------------------------------- Daishinkan uses the menu to add a new angel's name and identity to the menu. Unfortunately for Merus, his name is crossed off from the menu and will be erased when Merus will die as a mortal.
Deactivated angels are still on the menu, they do still exist (e.g. the future counterparts of Angels from Future Zeno's timeline) There is two ideas I have to what happened if the angels names who used to belong to erased angels or an angel turned mortal: 1) Either the names will be available and get reused after a long period of time to newer angels who need names. 2) These names of erased angels and disgraced angels are written in a secret list that it is in Daishinkan''s possession. The names on the secret list will never be used onto to an another angel. Daishinkan will look at the list, spare a thought about them or two before going with Grand Zeno to name a new angel, not using those names from the list. Main Headcanon 1: The Angelic Alcoholic Taxonomy and Classification of Drinks Categories ----------------------- OP, you gave me a wonderful idea and I am happy to give my interpretation of it, if I misunderstood at any point of this ask, feel free to correct me. Daishinkan is smart to make sure the angels are not separated by generations because it is important for the angels to foster good, cordial relations and the angels checking on each other to make sure they are doing well in their duty.
This Angelic Alcoholic taxonomy is based on the existing taxonomy (biology) with variations, the word domains from the question made me think that, and family houses, I think that is an excellent way to categorise the angels. Disclaimer: I use liquor and spirits interchangeably, they mean the same thing. I didn't take account of alcohol proof. This format is extremely simplified, I acknowledge exceptions exists and some drinks will not follow the format. Alcohol is a broad subject, especially for researching.
The angelic alcoholic taxonomy format: Domain/Realm: Angel Sovereign/Division/Dominion: Order/House: Group/Category: Subcategory/Variation: Brand (if applicable): With general examples provided and one filled example: Domain/Realm: Angel Sovereign/Division/Dominion: Beer, Liquor/Spirits and Wine (only those three) Order/House: (e.g. Cocktail, Rectified Spirit, Whiskey/Whisky) Category/Group: (e.g Martini, Irish Whiskey, Grappa) Subcategory/Variation: (e.g Snakebite & Black, Dry Martini) Brand: Yes/no Jack Daniel's (with a pun name for this angel): Domain/Realm: Angel Sovereign/Division/Dominion: Liquor House: Whiskey Group/Category: Straight Whiskey Subcategory/Variation: Tennessee Whiskey Brand: Yes Chartreuse: Domain/Realm: Angel Sovereign/Division/Dominion: Liquor House: Liqueur Group/Category: Herbal Liqueur Subcategory/Variation: Chartreuse Brand: No Trying with an existing angel e.g Awamo, a pun from Awamori: Domain/Realm: Angel Sovereign/Division/Dominion: Liquor House: Rice Spirits Group/Category: Awamori (there are some debates of Awamori classify as a type of Shochu, which it can be considered but Awamori and Kusu in general is different from other types of Shochu)
if Awamori was counted as type/category of Shochu, the format will be: Domain/Realm: Angel Sovereign/Division/Dominion: Liquor House: Rice spirits Group/Category: Shochu Subcategory/Variation: Awamori
Explanation about the taxonomy I personally use the idea of domain little differently here, because I base domain as in the domain in taxonomy. I believe the place where the angels originate is from an angel realm, and they are only beings there confirmed, there is nothing else but angels. The domain can be different if Daishinkan and Personification of Creation and Grand Zeno might create something besides angels, that possibility can be open. Sovereign/Division/Dominion is a little easier to explain as there is three broad categories of alcoholic drinks, wine, beer and liquor/spirits plus there are many houses under these dominion/division to handle many angels of many generations. House, yes I used for idea for family houses, OP, it was really good. Plus I also imagine sister houses where two or more houses can create an alliance or compete or do some activities together.
Group and other categories down the alcoholic taxonomy is to cover any variation of specific alcoholic drinks. Mini Headcanon 2: Daishinkan uses puns, could imply he is fond of puns and the usage of puns. -------------------------------- Daishinkan likes puns, it is in 75% of his Angels' names, that includes some generations of angels could have a higher proportion of non-pun names compared to other generations but pun names are still very popular. I will answer the other part in the another post I will tag you because this post is very long. Thank you for sharing your delightful headcanon which inspires me to do research and think creativity about the angels, destroyers and any subjects related to them. Part 2 of this ask about the only 12 angels idea is answered on a separate post, click this sentence here to see it.
Part 2 of the names ideas ask
Part 2: The only 12 angels inspires their destroyer's names idea Context from @bloghyperfixes ask: I think if there were only 12 angels here. (Sorry, it's just that these dudes are already named like basic alcoholic beverages.)
The name Vados? - It's vodka. And the gods of destruction under its tutelage are called by names derived from the brand of vodka. (Arak, Maotai, Schnapps, Enzian)
(If, for example, Mojito doesn't have separate types and names for such a cocktail, its gods could be called by the names of the altered ingredients).
But And as it seems to me, then All-King Zeno will change the gods' name game so all they don't get even more confusing.
If there were only 12 angels due to Daishinkan's will, the names would be broad for sure to help the idea that the angels' students/future destroyers can be named after the teachers they trained under, hence it would be easier to tell which destroyers belong which angel.
I do love that idea and in some alternative universe/dimension, this can be possible.
The question is if Vados is named Vodka or a pun name of Vodka in this AU, does that mean Champa himself can be named after a type of vodka or a brand, maybe likely he would be called Maotai. Not a direct link because the Chinese word for cat (which Champa is a kitty) is 猫 (mao in the first tone) and Mao in Maotai is 茅 (mao in the second tone) but maybe Vodka (Vados) would think of that for her destroyer before the naming ritual.
Also variation of basic alcoholic drinks could work in this idea, for example with Martinu, there is dry (martini), sweet (martini), perfect (martini) and wet (martini) and even dirty (martini), which I think Martinu would name her destroyer after those variations because it's funny but considering the existing example with her and Giin/Geene, that one is perfect because Gin is a ingredient/base to a Martini. Context about the existing example
Lol Mojito would have a fun time, naming them after altered ingredients as he thinks his destroyers are not worthy to have an alcoholic drink name (so he didn't name any destroyer after rum, rum is the main alcohol for a traditional mojito).
That's right, Grand Zeno would do that, they want to have some fun after all.
A silly headcanon of mine is that anime version of Mojito after the universes were revived that was erased during ToP saga handed in his resignation notice, letter (?) at that null realm broken arena and left for the angel realm permanently. Makkora (a canonically concept art angel) replaced him as new angel for the 9th Universe.
My attention is still drawn to the bar list that Daishinkan has been replenishing, using classifications and drink names, for…I wonder how long? Billions-millions of years?
I mean, whom before mortals, was the name of alcohol “beer” and “vodka” coined?? Did other universes and other species, especially aliens, come up with similar names? (Because if, let's just say, , if, say, angels appeared before the origin of life in the universes, where did the names of the drinks come from? Were they invented by other multiverses and shared with each other? Or if it's simpler - angels appeared after that origin of mortals in the universes, mortal came up with the alcohol itself and variations of names, and Daishinkan took the ideas from there?)
Or is Zeno so Omniscient and Omnipresent that he uses his powers to suggest a name for the next angel child? Literally, “Oh, I looked into the far future and someone came up with a thing called "Mojito" and "Champagne,” and the priest is like “O, cool.”
Just means that the name of alcohol wasn't just invented on Earth?
Very likely billions of years, the bar menu is very old, but always updated. To me, that the angels came first before mortals (personal preference) and they are not named by Earth’s drinks, rather that the Earth’s alcoholic drinks were named after the angels themselves. I will explain this headcanon more, whenever Beerus had a long nap, Whis travelled on Earth in disguise and named the newly created alcoholic drinks after his siblings and the destroyers. So whenever an angel and destroyer came over, Whis had them try the alcoholic drinks and they figure out what drinks named after them, Whis thinks it’s amusing which Kus, Awamo, Vados and Cukatail share the sentiment and likes the drinks named after them, others however, much less so. But Daishinkan and Grand Zeno thinks Whis’ little prank is great
Alcoholic drinks in different universes got different names, most are not related to each other in etymology or word origins, maybe more in the twin universes where shared drinks may occur naturally or by trade. Some drinks kept their name from their origin names even after multi-trading in different universes (like alcoholic drinks named after a specific place/planet)
Zeno got good foresight like in TOP saga so if he sees a name in the future, he will say it.
I know it is to do with Camparri’s appearance that I sometimes can’t unsee him as a former choir boy or an opera singer, and Cognac plays the piano weirdly in his own way whenever Campari sings that he hams the piano. I like to think that Camparri and Cognac pranks each other sometimes, like this video for example of part of their dynamic is like: