Loreposting - Tumblr Posts

loreposting? at this hour? more likely than you think...

I'm really proud of this!! I had no idea I could just...change my handwriting like that. Cool.

Philip creates a new grimwalker: wholesome edition

Yes- he kept Flapjack after Caleb was killed. He doesn't need to eat palismen because he didn't go that far with the collector.

Palismen can communicate with other dimensional versions of themselves. Flapjack distrust his Philip because of what he's seen canon Belos do. Flapjack only sticks around to comfort the grimwalkers.

Philip tells the grimwalkers what they are and never lies about the death of his brother - all the better to have them fear Eda as much as he does. He doesn't mean to be manipulative in telling them the horrors Eda has done - she has done some awful things.

Philip is partially jealous of Eda. All he got from the collector was a longer lifespan- functioning as immortality as long as no physical harm cones to him. Eda got all the cool shit (can't remember off the top of my head, just like cool shit) and also got the grimwalker recipe.

so the thing with messmer right. we have confirmation he’s marika’s child. and from his appearance he seems to have a lot of radagon’s traits - the red hair, chiseled facial features etc. so it’s likely the case. but i’m so suspicious of miyazaki only confirming marika as a parent and not radagon… idk it feels like there’s something there?? some info we don’t have yet that is gonna be key in explaining who he really is… but also if he is their child what is his damage bc malenia and miquella were both born cursed and i feel like that’s a symptom of their parents being the same being - a result of their weird cosmic god incest. so if he is their kid he’s gotta have his own affliction or curse. is this making any sense to anyone

thinking about if he’s not Radagon’s child… if he’s in the shadow realm, what if he’s born of Marika but is somehow a manifestation of all things heretical to the golden order… some way for the greater will to try and purge that out of Marika before she took the throne perhaps? that way the red hair could be explained away as being Giant’s hair rather than Radagon’s. maybe this is the real reason Radagon hated his red hair aside from the Giant hatred - reminiscent of Marika’s shadowborn heretical child…

I don’t know if that makes sense bc perhaps all that wasn’t heretical until later on when the Golden Order was more established but i’m open to entertaining a lot of little ideas bc one part might open up another train of thought you know. I wanna keep my mind open 👁️

so the thing with messmer right. we have confirmation he’s marika’s child. and from his appearance he seems to have a lot of radagon’s traits - the red hair, chiseled facial features etc. so it’s likely the case. but i’m so suspicious of miyazaki only confirming marika as a parent and not radagon… idk it feels like there’s something there?? some info we don’t have yet that is gonna be key in explaining who he really is… but also if he is their child what is his damage bc malenia and miquella were both born cursed and i feel like that’s a symptom of their parents being the same being - a result of their weird cosmic god incest. so if he is their kid he’s gotta have his own affliction or curse. is this making any sense to anyone

in my playthrough today i spoke to Enia the finger reader in roundtable hold about burning the Erdtree, and part of what she said really stood out to me:

“The Rune of Death goes by two names; the other is Destined Death. The forbidden shadow, plucked from the Golden Order upon its creation...”

I don’t know what to make of this yet bc I’m too tired to think properly but any mention of shadow/s catches my attention bc of the DLC so… I will be pondering

lots of parts of this are getting my head whirring but I can't land on anything so let me list a few thoughts to see if i can figure any of this out (gonna mention some stuff fromsoft has shared about the DLC so if ur avoiding DLC spoilers this is your warning)

'forbidden shadow' - what is this a shadow of? I'm assuming it's forbidden because Marika's order was one of bounty and life-giving blessings, so the rune of death would be seen as something outside of her purview. I often wonder why she would choose to do this, it seems strangely naive to think you could completely disrupt the cycle of life and death, even as a god. Maybe it has something to do with wanting to divest from previous cultures, which naturally had a lot of tradition and ceremony around death.

'plucked from the Golden Order' what does this mean... the G.O. in my understanding is more of an idea/concept, a belief system, how can something be taken from it? maybe I'm looking at it too literally but this confuses me... they could be conflating the construction of the newer Elden Ring with the Golden Order as it was created i guess, that makes more sense to me (as opposed to the ancient Elden Ring that we see in Farum Azula)

'plucked from the Golden Order upon it's creation' - we know now that the Golden Order was created in the land of shadows, where the DLC takes place (edit: i can't find what i read that said this so i think i must've misread or misunderstood some DLC trailer info wrong or smth my bad lol leaving up for posterity) so is this implying that this place is also the birthplace of the rune of death? was it created at the same time as the G.O. or did it already exist? I'd assume it already existed because death existed before her order, so i guess it's saying the rune of death was taken out of the already existing order when Marika's order was established. again i really wonder about her motivations behind removing the rune of death - i can't imagine it was purely an act of goodwill on her behalf because of her scheming... maybe it was a ploy for her to truly wield ultimate power and reverence from her subjects, she and the Erdtree were made to be the only sources of life - an undeniable aspect of godhood. much to think about

in my playthrough today i spoke to Enia the finger reader in roundtable hold about burning the Erdtree, and part of what she said really stood out to me:

“The Rune of Death goes by two names; the other is Destined Death. The forbidden shadow, plucked from the Golden Order upon its creation...”

I don’t know what to make of this yet bc I’m too tired to think properly but any mention of shadow/s catches my attention bc of the DLC so… I will be pondering

my main issue with people claiming Melina as the gloam eyed queen is that it’s heavily implied she’s marika’s daughter, and the gloam eyed queen is theorised to have been an empyrean rival to marika long ago before she was Queen, how could both be true? maybe i’ve missed something (timelines r confusing) but that seems like such a glaring oversight to me

I really appreciate the clarity you've provided here because I had no idea the GEQ came about later during Marika's reign! The way you've described it makes total sense to me now so thank you so much. I'm still not convinced on Melina being the GEQ because like you say we just don't have enough information. She does speak about her purpose quite often, I wonder if somehow the GW could somehow revive the GEQ in Melina's form, she does seem to not have been born the 'natural' way (with what she says irt Boc about being born of a mother). That's if she ever truly died? Maybe if we had a better understanding of what the GW could actually do it would be clearer. I wonder if we'll have something more concrete in the DLC... it could be likely considering we've been introduced to another child of Marika, but I also wouldn't put it past fromsoft to just leave us in the dark. and that's their slay :) speculation is fun!

my main issue with people claiming Melina as the gloam eyed queen is that it’s heavily implied she’s marika’s daughter, and the gloam eyed queen is theorised to have been an empyrean rival to marika long ago before she was Queen, how could both be true? maybe i’ve missed something (timelines r confusing) but that seems like such a glaring oversight to me

discussion in the chat of quelaag's lore stream reminded me of a little lore theory i had a while ago about why Liurnia is sinking - i always thought this was because of the Carian connection to the moon because the moon controls tides 🌕

someone else suggested it was because of mining for glintstone it basically turned the ground into a bog, which makes sense!! but i like my idea better because it's more whimsical and magic teehee

sometimes i forget how much of a ranni apologist i am until i get a youtube vid pushed to me about her and all the comments are gamer bros being like “she’s the most evil character real ones know” and i’m like you’re wrong and i’m confiscating the game from you now

my main issue with people claiming Melina as the gloam eyed queen is that it’s heavily implied she’s marika’s daughter, and the gloam eyed queen is theorised to have been an empyrean rival to marika long ago before she was Queen, how could both be true? maybe i’ve missed something (timelines r confusing) but that seems like such a glaring oversight to me

Now that the whole idea of "short people are second class citizens" is arguably canon in Elden Ring I am utterly desperate to know what the exact nature of Miquella and Radagon's relationship was:

Personally, I hesitate to say that their relationship was loving, seeing as Miquellas only apparent interactions with his Father is in their collaboration(?) with Fundamentalism, and even then, Miquella abandoned Fundamentalism and Radagon in tandem.

Clearly Godwyn was the one Miquella was closest with as opposed to Radgon, having a statue of him and Malenia being embraced by their brother, and Golden Epitaph blessed by Miquella's prayer for him to die a true death.

So then with Miquella being cursed and looked down on for being small, the young Empyean likely had to work twice as hard as anyone to just be seen and heard. Did Mr. Leal-Hound-of-the-Golden-Order look down on his malformed child just like everyone else? Did Radagon not even spare his son a second glance?

Were Miquella's Incantations, his gifts for his father, not gifts of love but instead ones of desperation? To be acknowledged by his Father and to be granted the opportunity to study further Fundamentalism from it's practical founder, so Miquella could find a cure for Malenia?

Was it only then that Radagon began to recognize his son, when Miquella's genius, and usefulness to the Golden Order, was revealed?

And when Miquella realized that Fundamentalism could to nothing to cure Malenia, did he too realize that he no longer needed to essentially kiss Radagons ass, did he feel freed by that revelation or did he feel grief for a relationship he longed for but could never have?

i like these theories!! i think there's definitely something to them. the idea of maragon (new name just dropped) becoming stone after becoming a god strikes true to me in the sense that it feels like something that would be hinted to us in the story - that although they are a powerful god, they are rigid, stuck in their ways (or the ways of the order), they have no freedom - they stagnate as stone rather than move freely like water. that, to me, sounds like what the game is trying to tell us about the golden order and the fate of the gods. they're no longer alive as they once were. perhaps they're even literally becoming 'icons' like the statues of them, rather than their own people with their own wants and desires. they're becoming a stagnating idea of what they are, in relation to the golden order... their existence outside of that has been diminished if not wiped out completely. in the ending cutscenes i always found it jarring how marika is essentially completely statuesque at this point - she has no say in whatever happens. you (or ranni) lift up her head and place it back on her shoulders, like a sculptor might. you're the creator - her wishes are negligible, cast aside, forgotten, irrelevant. idk if this is making sense but it's got my brain whirring

has there been any speculation about why marika/radagon appear to be made of stone? it doesn’t seem like this was always the case from depictions of them in paintings, i wonder if it happened post-shattering… if the cinematic is to be trusted they weren’t made of stone when the shattering happened. wonder what that’s about

circling back on this, ranni’s corpse looks weirdly stone-like

maybe there is something inherent in godhood that changes your physicality in this way. or maybe it only became a thing after death was removed from the elden ring… how long can a body really continue as flesh in a world where death has been removed? even as a god… much to think about

has there been any speculation about why marika/radagon appear to be made of stone? it doesn’t seem like this was always the case from depictions of them in paintings, i wonder if it happened post-shattering… if the cinematic is to be trusted they weren’t made of stone when the shattering happened. wonder what that’s about

let me nerd out for a sec and try to figure out what we are looking at here

so at a first glance to me this looks like an omen adorned with scarce armour, including a golden mask, bracers, hair and omen horns. i'm not sure if the hair and horns belong to the omen wearing it or are attached to the mask. on closer inspection it does appear that the horns/hair belong to the omen itself. notable that in the shadow realm the omen do not remove their horns - aspects of the crucible appear to be embraced in this realm. it reminds me of that boss we saw in the gameplay trailer - the 'chinese dragon' sort of enemy with the omen covered in cloaks with the lion face. that, to me, always came off as these omen making a mockery of the golden lineage, and i get a similar feeling looking at this. the golden mask really stands out to me... having the gold paired with omen horns just seems like a really obvious contrast that i feel like it must be a kind of wink and nudge to a feeling of "we don't respect the golden order/lineage". now let's try to break down different aspects of this image

the bracers remind me of both the guardian bracers and the godskin apostle bracelets (notable again that they are golden)

the golden mask reminds me of the face masks that both Tanith and Maleigh Marais wear

the weapons this omen is wielding remind me of another weapon we saw in the trailer, if just because of the circular aspect

the robe looks a similar colour to the one we see the man wear in the trailer (which also always reminded me of the one morgott wore)

the hair detail on the golden mask sticks out to me... it reminds me of godwyn's long straight hair, and it going through the eye reminds me of deathroot corrupting his figure. which we do see in the original elden ring trailer when his eye goes back in his head. but that's more pure speculation on my part

i'm so excited omg. love these designs. i'll add more if i think of anything else, feel free to add your own observations !

the elden ring twitter just posted this and i’m so alive bc WHAT IS THAT

I had to make a BIG post going over everything that's got my brain whirring after watching the story trailer - it's all my speculation and personal opinion so don't take it as fact yada yada IT'S FUN SPECULATION TIME

(I'll put it under the cut bc this is gonna be a LONG one)

“Miquella the kind spoke of the beginning. The seduction. And the betrayal. An affair from which Gold arose. And so too was Shadow born."

My interpretation of this scene is that we are seeing the creation of the Golden Order by Marika. She plucks grace from something dead and fleshy, and holds it up to the Greater Will, beckoning in her new age. It would make sense to me, considering the voiceover, that this is a dead god that has been betrayed by Marika so she can pursue her Order and claim power. It does like quite reminiscent of Kos from Bloodborne to me. The fleshiness of the corpse also reminds me of the godskins/snakeskin. However, I don't believe this is the Gloam Eyed Queen. From my understanding of the timeline (mainly thanks to @eldenringslut) the GEQ didn't come about until later on during Marika's reign - if we are seeing the creation of the GO, and my understanding of the timeline is correct, I don't think it would make sense for this to be the GEQ. I can't deny different aspects of this do allude to things related to her though - the dusky sky, the godskin-like flesh. But I almost think that would be too 'perfect' for it to fit together like that, especially with how much people want to know more about the GEQ, I think fromsoft would want to keep us in the dark and surprise us. Whatever we are seeing here, Gold and Shadow seemingly came about at the same time.

We get our first look at what appears to be Messmer's army. They appear to all wield spears which ties into Messmer's whole Impaler thing, along with the shot of the person(?) impaled on the steps. I wonder who these people were, if they had to stay in the Shadow Realm after the battle was done (if it is?). I find the design on the helmet interesting - at first glance I thought it could be a tree or roots, but actually doesn't it kind of remind you of the black tendrils that shoot out of Messmer's flame? I think it could be either, or both, or maybe it's a chicken and egg situation and they're related somehow... my first thought when the initial gameplay trailer came out was that the dark tendrils in Messmer's flame could be deathroot or something similar to that. Maybe I wasn't far off?

We get our first shot of Messmer here. His pose pretty much solidifies to me that this is his army - this is the pose of a character commanding an army. It's so classic fantasy, the composition and everything, I love it. Messmer is awesome. I'm obsessed with the snake-like flames flying above the carnage.

"What followed was a war unseen. One that could never be put to song. A purge without Grace, or honour. The tyranny of Messmer's flame."

My take on this is that once Marika had won her battle/betrayed the God we see her pluck Grace from, she had her opponents banished and/or wiped out at the hands of Messmer. I have to say, it does surprise me that it seems Messmer was around and fully grown at the creation of Marika's Order. The implications there leave me with so many questions. Who is his other parent? Marika is Numen, and they seldom give birth. This is not an insignificant thing for her to have a child, especially if the theory of births being governed by the Erdtree/Golden Order is to be believed, and this must have came about before then. It would also go against the idea that Messmer is the full brother/secret triplet of Miquella and Malenia, considering that Miq + Mal were not born until Marika had left Godfrey for Radagon. I find that detail so intriguing... especially because I was so on board with the butterfly theories.

No idea who this is, but they're cool and that definitely looks like the kind of weapon we'd be able to pick up. It just looks like a PVP weapon, know what I mean? Very reminiscent of Vyke as well imo, similar pose to the box art of him along with the billowing cape. This reminds me, I'm noticing an emphasis on hair in this trailer too - I never took much note of Marika's hair before but in this trailer there was a lot of emphasis put on how long it is, how similar it is to threads of Grace, and Miquella's hair too. It's making me think of the bible story of Samson but let me not go too off the rails

Here we have some of the coolest shots in the trailer imo. This posits the Lion/Omens as enemies of Messmer to me - which to me supports the view that Messmer is aligned with Marika. The Lion/Omens always came off to me as if they were making a mockery of the GO - positioning themselves as enemies to Marika/the GO. We get another good look at his Flame, with the tendrils. They almost remind me of thorns actually. That final shot looks like a victory scene to me. It also really hammers home the Impaler thing. The man knows his brand!

Then we pan up to see what hangs above this burned city - this 'shadow tree'. THIS IS MARIKA'S RUNE.

I think we are seeing the origins of her rune as part of the modern Elden Ring here - Grace/blessings dripping from the bough of this tree. I have to say given the imagery relating to motherhood on the run up to the DLC, the rune does look vaguely yonic, especially on the seals. I think references to motherhood are in this trailer too - Marika taking something from a fleshy orifice with a voiceover talking about seduction, I can't imagine that wasn't intentional. So far the main character we have seen is her child, after all. The whole story of Elden Ring revolves around Marika's children. I have a feeling Marika's relation to motherhood and childbearing is going to be a big theme in the DLC.

I remember when the first gameplay trailer dropped, people theorised that this was Ranni's rune, and I was happy to believe that because of the similarities to Rennala's rune. But now I believe it's Miquella's rune, for several reasons, one being it reminds me of Malenia's rune, and they are twins after all. Although Rennala and Malenia's runes are oddly similar, it just makes more sense to me that it would be Miquella's, considering we are following in his footsteps. I think these rune spikes are going to be our DLC equivalents of sites of grace.

"And so kindly Miquella would abandon everything. His golden flesh, his blinding strength..."

Abandoning his flesh is very reminiscent of Ranni... but why would he need to abandon his flesh? Perhaps after Mohg stole him away? Though I have to say, I'm warming up the idea that Mohg never actually had Miquella, he just thought he did. That might not make sense considering that body in Mohg's palace is how we get to the Shadow Lands, but I don't know, something about it doesn't sit quite right with me for some reason. The line 'his blinding strength' is a bit odd. I can't take credit for this next idea, I saw it on twitter, but someone suggested that this is referencing him potentially abandoning Malenia - his strength, his blade. For Miquella to abandon Malenia though, it doesn't exactly align with what we know of his character. This is the person that turned his back on the GO because it could do nothing for Malenia's sickness. He'd need a really good reason to do that to her. Maybe it was his only option? I'm so intrigued about why Miquella is even in the Shadow Lands to begin with. What are his motivations? Perhaps it's something to do with his proclivity to want to welcome all, especially those outside of Grace, I suppose those in the shadow lands fall under that mantle.

"Even his fate."

Now THIS is super interesting - our first look at St. Trina! In her usual purple - associated with sleep. It does also look like she's sleeping here, sinking... What on earth does it mean to say that Miquella abandoned his fate as we are shown an image of St. Trina? Was he meant to eventually become Trina fully? We don't know much about her, but we do know Trina is an aspect/alter-ego of some sort of Miquella. Considering his parents were one in the same body, it's not a stretch to assume this could be the same case here. But in Marika/Radagon's case, it doesn't seem completely intentional - with the Ring shattering, I always got the impression they each fought to be in control of their singular body. Perhaps Miquella/Trina worked together rather than against each other? The queer part of me can't help but think of some kind of allegory to transition and Miquella having to walk away from it for whatever reason... but I really don't know enough to figure anything out from this.

I saw someone point out that this shot of Trina looks like Trina's lilies too, which is super cool (sorry I don't remember who that was).

"But we are not deterred. We choose to follow. Will you walk with us?"

I'm honestly surprised to see all these characters that we saw in the previous trailer just hanging out, I assumed they'd all be enemies of different factions. But here they look like allies, and from the voiceover they sound like it too, asking if we will join them. I think the voiceover is one of these NPCs. Seeing the fighting guy second on the left has got me super excited, what if he teaches us the hands-on combat we saw him do in the first trailer? I also think the crouching character on the right is the one we saw sleeping in the purple area (Trina?) from the last trailer:

Anyway, these are my thoughts, I hope they resonate in one way or another. I can't wait to come back in a couple months and see how wrong I was <3 yayyy

I watched the trailer again and this looks more humanoid to me now - the thing Marika pulls from looks so much like a pregnant belly, I can't unsee it. I feel like I can make out the outline of a belly button. Instead of flesh, I now think that is fabric from whatever this character is wearing. This could still be a god, but this has got my mind whirring again... it makes so much sense with all the allusions to motherhood and pregnancy we've seen in the lead-up to the DLC. If it is a pregnant corpse, why did Marika need to take the grace (or whatever that thread is) from it? The Greater Will does seem to place importance on those that can give birth, maybe this is what gave Marika, a Numen, the ability to bear many children?

can i have a little ramble about dlc lore/discourse without anyone getting mad

if we accept the idea that the radahn/miquella story was planned from the beginning, i feel like they purposely left out any mention of them interacting in the base game to avoid people figuring it out long before the DLC even dropped. because they know what we're like and the way people figure things out from the most tenuous things is impressive. but it seems to have had the unintended consequence of it feeling like a rug-pull rather than a welcome surprise by the community, because elden ring is a game that rewards you for exploring, for uncovering the tiniest hints to lore in item descriptions, coming to your own conclusions on the story. so to feel completely blind-sided in this way about main story characters that we've formed opinions on for years doesn't feel like it fits with the base game's ethos at all. i get the feeling that players feel played with ironically lol? i'm also not sure fromsoft have ever done anything like this in their games before, where they've brought back main characters from the base game as a final boss, so i think that's had an affect too.

I’d assume the reason she went to Caelid is because that’s where Radahn was based - he has Redmane forts there and Sellia. I’m sure he laid siege to other places in TLB at various points but Caelid does seem to be his base of operations. The Godfrey angle is definitely apparent, when I got to the 2nd phase and saw Miquella climb onto his back I thought of Serosh immediately. I think the holding back the stars thing could be argued either way - if he changed his mind and didn’t want to become Miquella’s consort, maybe his reasoning for holding the stars (and fate) in stasis was to avoid that coming to fruition. I think I lean more towards that view personally

What are the subtle things you mentioned? I genuinely can’t think of any off the top of my head

can i have a little ramble about dlc lore/discourse without anyone getting mad

if we accept the idea that the radahn/miquella story was planned from the beginning, i feel like they purposely left out any mention of them interacting in the base game to avoid people figuring it out long before the DLC even dropped. because they know what we're like and the way people figure things out from the most tenuous things is impressive. but it seems to have had the unintended consequence of it feeling like a rug-pull rather than a welcome surprise by the community, because elden ring is a game that rewards you for exploring, for uncovering the tiniest hints to lore in item descriptions, coming to your own conclusions on the story. so to feel completely blind-sided in this way about main story characters that we've formed opinions on for years doesn't feel like it fits with the base game's ethos at all. i get the feeling that players feel played with ironically lol? i'm also not sure fromsoft have ever done anything like this in their games before, where they've brought back main characters from the base game as a final boss, so i think that's had an affect too.

yeah I actually don’t think this is a new thing they’ve come up with actually, I think it’s the delivery that hasn’t panned out the way they probably expected it to. I think they’re very intentional with their storytelling and placement of things so it wouldn’t surprise me if the lilies are there to signal some kind of connection between Radahn and Miquella, I think it just comes down to people associating Caelid more with Malenia rather than Radahn and assuming that’s probably why the lilies are there. Granted that doesn’t make a lot of sense when put under scrutiny but I think that’s probably a factor in why, if that was their intention with the lily placement, it was more or less brushed aside by players/lore hunters. I’m definitely gonna be looking out for more signs on my next playthrough though

can i have a little ramble about dlc lore/discourse without anyone getting mad

if we accept the idea that the radahn/miquella story was planned from the beginning, i feel like they purposely left out any mention of them interacting in the base game to avoid people figuring it out long before the DLC even dropped. because they know what we're like and the way people figure things out from the most tenuous things is impressive. but it seems to have had the unintended consequence of it feeling like a rug-pull rather than a welcome surprise by the community, because elden ring is a game that rewards you for exploring, for uncovering the tiniest hints to lore in item descriptions, coming to your own conclusions on the story. so to feel completely blind-sided in this way about main story characters that we've formed opinions on for years doesn't feel like it fits with the base game's ethos at all. i get the feeling that players feel played with ironically lol? i'm also not sure fromsoft have ever done anything like this in their games before, where they've brought back main characters from the base game as a final boss, so i think that's had an affect too.