Marika - Tumblr Posts
One thing that annoys me is that some people try to reduce the complex dynamic between Messmer and Marika as some wholesome purely loving relationship?? Especially when there are takes that Messmer wasn't cursing Marika in his dying breath and was saying he became a curse upon her? Like even in the og Japanese version he did curse her in the most obvious - simplistic way there is no ambiguity in it . Or that he was "demonically possessed" by the abyssal serpent and that it was the one cursing Marika lmfaoo.
Sorry about this small rant đ i just really want people other than me ( i feel alone on this somehow) to appreciate the relationship between Marika and Messmer for its complexity and tragedia. She abandoned him and he ended up cursing her instead of the person who killed him. Which is beautifully tragic you know... Better than the one-dimensional uwu wholesome dynamic
Yeah, I agree!
The relationship between Marika and Messmer is incredibly complex, nuanced, and dynamicâthe Marika that birthed a cursed son alone and cared for him deeply and completely is not the same Marika that told all her demigod children to fuck off should they not become gods or Lords. Neither is the Messmer that committed a genocide for his motherâs sake the same as the exhausted Messmer that we end up fighting. There is evidence that she loved him, the Blessings of Marika for example, just as there is evidence that she feared him, and that fear won out over love. Just the same, it is obvious that Messmer loved her, and it is obvious this love for her had limits, limits he reached:
That after an âeternity of sufferingâ with no sign of her, she would think to elevate a lightless Tarnished to lordship, when he himself was abandoned and hated and betrayed and hurt over being a vile lightless creature himself. After everything heâs done for her⊠Marika, a curse upon thee.
That is not to say I donât appreciate the efforts of folks who just want them to be happy, though. Gentle, wholesome moments between mother and son make my heart full, and I love them. Just as there is no darkness without light, there can be no angst without a period of happiness to ruin first. </3
- Froggo
Someone really said we shouldn't take Messmer's last words ( when he cursed Marika) seriously because he was demonically possessed ijbol
Not this again! Messmer is perfectly lucid between phases, and completely understands the consequences of his actions and accepts themâwhat part of that implies he was possessed and not acting of his own will?
Messmer asks his mother to forgive him for having to forsake the grace she gave him, but she left him no choice, he will NOT have this graceless Tarnished become a Lord above himself. Himself, her own flesh and blood, after all he has endured for herâhe will believe in her no longer, for clearly she has lost her mind. He feels as though she has betrayed him, his men, his cause, everythingâyou can hear it in the quiver in his voice when he says âYetâŠâ like he is not even sure if he should do her bidding and fulfill the purpose she gave him anymore. And then he decides he shouldnât after allâhis snakesâ eyes are not deceiving him, and the Tarnished really has been endowed with the strength of his motherâs sanctioning. Fine, he thinks, then I will fight back for myself, my morals, on my own terms. Messmer curses Marika in the end as the culmination of all those points: he curses her for abandoning her son.
His last words are extremely personal and emotionally driven and moving, yet some fool on Reddit or wherever you heard this would rather strip him of all his agency and sincerity and say he was possessed to say it. Yeah okay whatever xD
- Froggo
The fallen leaves tell a story. The great Elden Ring was shattered.
Made by me! I loved the game â„
my main issue with people claiming Melina as the gloam eyed queen is that itâs heavily implied sheâs marikaâs daughter, and the gloam eyed queen is theorised to have been an empyrean rival to marika long ago before she was Queen, how could both be true? maybe iâve missed something (timelines r confusing) but that seems like such a glaring oversight to me
I really appreciate the clarity you've provided here because I had no idea the GEQ came about later during Marika's reign! The way you've described it makes total sense to me now so thank you so much. I'm still not convinced on Melina being the GEQ because like you say we just don't have enough information. She does speak about her purpose quite often, I wonder if somehow the GW could somehow revive the GEQ in Melina's form, she does seem to not have been born the 'natural' way (with what she says irt Boc about being born of a mother). That's if she ever truly died? Maybe if we had a better understanding of what the GW could actually do it would be clearer. I wonder if we'll have something more concrete in the DLC... it could be likely considering we've been introduced to another child of Marika, but I also wouldn't put it past fromsoft to just leave us in the dark. and that's their slay :) speculation is fun!
my main issue with people claiming Melina as the gloam eyed queen is that itâs heavily implied sheâs marikaâs daughter, and the gloam eyed queen is theorised to have been an empyrean rival to marika long ago before she was Queen, how could both be true? maybe iâve missed something (timelines r confusing) but that seems like such a glaring oversight to me
just realised i never posted this here, made this at the height of barbie hype last summer lol
queen marika the eternal
Whew this painting took a while to finish, tho I did finish this earlier I just forgot to post it here lol
has there been any speculation about why marika/radagon appear to be made of stone? it doesnât seem like this was always the case from depictions of them in paintings, i wonder if it happened post-shattering⊠if the cinematic is to be trusted they werenât made of stone when the shattering happened. wonder what thatâs about
has there been any speculation about why marika/radagon appear to be made of stone? it doesnât seem like this was always the case from depictions of them in paintings, i wonder if it happened post-shattering⊠if the cinematic is to be trusted they werenât made of stone when the shattering happened. wonder what thatâs about
i like these theories!! i think there's definitely something to them. the idea of maragon (new name just dropped) becoming stone after becoming a god strikes true to me in the sense that it feels like something that would be hinted to us in the story - that although they are a powerful god, they are rigid, stuck in their ways (or the ways of the order), they have no freedom - they stagnate as stone rather than move freely like water. that, to me, sounds like what the game is trying to tell us about the golden order and the fate of the gods. they're no longer alive as they once were. perhaps they're even literally becoming 'icons' like the statues of them, rather than their own people with their own wants and desires. they're becoming a stagnating idea of what they are, in relation to the golden order... their existence outside of that has been diminished if not wiped out completely. in the ending cutscenes i always found it jarring how marika is essentially completely statuesque at this point - she has no say in whatever happens. you (or ranni) lift up her head and place it back on her shoulders, like a sculptor might. you're the creator - her wishes are negligible, cast aside, forgotten, irrelevant. idk if this is making sense but it's got my brain whirring
has there been any speculation about why marika/radagon appear to be made of stone? it doesnât seem like this was always the case from depictions of them in paintings, i wonder if it happened post-shattering⊠if the cinematic is to be trusted they werenât made of stone when the shattering happened. wonder what thatâs about
tea, i always thought radagon was created by the GW because imo he is too single-minded to be human/anything other than something created for a sole purpose. he seems so dogged in his will to protect and uphold the GO and will do anything in his power to achieve that, even when itâs broken beyond repair. leal hound of the golden order indeedâŠ
has there been any speculation about why marika/radagon appear to be made of stone? it doesnât seem like this was always the case from depictions of them in paintings, i wonder if it happened post-shattering⊠if the cinematic is to be trusted they werenât made of stone when the shattering happened. wonder what thatâs about
circling back on this, ranniâs corpse looks weirdly stone-like
maybe there is something inherent in godhood that changes your physicality in this way. or maybe it only became a thing after death was removed from the elden ring⊠how long can a body really continue as flesh in a world where death has been removed? even as a god⊠much to think about
has there been any speculation about why marika/radagon appear to be made of stone? it doesnât seem like this was always the case from depictions of them in paintings, i wonder if it happened post-shattering⊠if the cinematic is to be trusted they werenât made of stone when the shattering happened. wonder what thatâs about
has there been any speculation about why marika/radagon appear to be made of stone? it doesnât seem like this was always the case from depictions of them in paintings, i wonder if it happened post-shattering⊠if the cinematic is to be trusted they werenât made of stone when the shattering happened. wonder what thatâs about
âMiquella the kind spoke of the beginning. The seduction. And the betrayal. An affair from which Gold arose. And so too was Shadow born."
Miquella the kind spoke of the beginning. The seduction and the betrayal. An affair from which Gold arose And so too was Shadow born. What followed was a war unseen One that could never be put to song A purge without Grace or honour The tyranny of Messmer's flame And so Kindly Miquella would abandon everything. His golden flesh, his blinding strength. Even his fate. But we are not deterred. We choose to follow. Will you walk with us? - E L D E N R I N G Shadow of the Erdtree (06.21.2024) -
I had to make a BIG post going over everything that's got my brain whirring after watching the story trailer - it's all my speculation and personal opinion so don't take it as fact yada yada IT'S FUN SPECULATION TIME
(I'll put it under the cut bc this is gonna be a LONG one)
âMiquella the kind spoke of the beginning. The seduction. And the betrayal. An affair from which Gold arose. And so too was Shadow born."
My interpretation of this scene is that we are seeing the creation of the Golden Order by Marika. She plucks grace from something dead and fleshy, and holds it up to the Greater Will, beckoning in her new age. It would make sense to me, considering the voiceover, that this is a dead god that has been betrayed by Marika so she can pursue her Order and claim power. It does like quite reminiscent of Kos from Bloodborne to me. The fleshiness of the corpse also reminds me of the godskins/snakeskin. However, I don't believe this is the Gloam Eyed Queen. From my understanding of the timeline (mainly thanks to @eldenringslut) the GEQ didn't come about until later on during Marika's reign - if we are seeing the creation of the GO, and my understanding of the timeline is correct, I don't think it would make sense for this to be the GEQ. I can't deny different aspects of this do allude to things related to her though - the dusky sky, the godskin-like flesh. But I almost think that would be too 'perfect' for it to fit together like that, especially with how much people want to know more about the GEQ, I think fromsoft would want to keep us in the dark and surprise us. Whatever we are seeing here, Gold and Shadow seemingly came about at the same time.
We get our first look at what appears to be Messmer's army. They appear to all wield spears which ties into Messmer's whole Impaler thing, along with the shot of the person(?) impaled on the steps. I wonder who these people were, if they had to stay in the Shadow Realm after the battle was done (if it is?). I find the design on the helmet interesting - at first glance I thought it could be a tree or roots, but actually doesn't it kind of remind you of the black tendrils that shoot out of Messmer's flame? I think it could be either, or both, or maybe it's a chicken and egg situation and they're related somehow... my first thought when the initial gameplay trailer came out was that the dark tendrils in Messmer's flame could be deathroot or something similar to that. Maybe I wasn't far off?
We get our first shot of Messmer here. His pose pretty much solidifies to me that this is his army - this is the pose of a character commanding an army. It's so classic fantasy, the composition and everything, I love it. Messmer is awesome. I'm obsessed with the snake-like flames flying above the carnage.
"What followed was a war unseen. One that could never be put to song. A purge without Grace, or honour. The tyranny of Messmer's flame."
My take on this is that once Marika had won her battle/betrayed the God we see her pluck Grace from, she had her opponents banished and/or wiped out at the hands of Messmer. I have to say, it does surprise me that it seems Messmer was around and fully grown at the creation of Marika's Order. The implications there leave me with so many questions. Who is his other parent? Marika is Numen, and they seldom give birth. This is not an insignificant thing for her to have a child, especially if the theory of births being governed by the Erdtree/Golden Order is to be believed, and this must have came about before then. It would also go against the idea that Messmer is the full brother/secret triplet of Miquella and Malenia, considering that Miq + Mal were not born until Marika had left Godfrey for Radagon. I find that detail so intriguing... especially because I was so on board with the butterfly theories.
No idea who this is, but they're cool and that definitely looks like the kind of weapon we'd be able to pick up. It just looks like a PVP weapon, know what I mean? Very reminiscent of Vyke as well imo, similar pose to the box art of him along with the billowing cape. This reminds me, I'm noticing an emphasis on hair in this trailer too - I never took much note of Marika's hair before but in this trailer there was a lot of emphasis put on how long it is, how similar it is to threads of Grace, and Miquella's hair too. It's making me think of the bible story of Samson but let me not go too off the rails
Here we have some of the coolest shots in the trailer imo. This posits the Lion/Omens as enemies of Messmer to me - which to me supports the view that Messmer is aligned with Marika. The Lion/Omens always came off to me as if they were making a mockery of the GO - positioning themselves as enemies to Marika/the GO. We get another good look at his Flame, with the tendrils. They almost remind me of thorns actually. That final shot looks like a victory scene to me. It also really hammers home the Impaler thing. The man knows his brand!
Then we pan up to see what hangs above this burned city - this 'shadow tree'. THIS IS MARIKA'S RUNE.
I think we are seeing the origins of her rune as part of the modern Elden Ring here - Grace/blessings dripping from the bough of this tree. I have to say given the imagery relating to motherhood on the run up to the DLC, the rune does look vaguely yonic, especially on the seals. I think references to motherhood are in this trailer too - Marika taking something from a fleshy orifice with a voiceover talking about seduction, I can't imagine that wasn't intentional. So far the main character we have seen is her child, after all. The whole story of Elden Ring revolves around Marika's children. I have a feeling Marika's relation to motherhood and childbearing is going to be a big theme in the DLC.
I remember when the first gameplay trailer dropped, people theorised that this was Ranni's rune, and I was happy to believe that because of the similarities to Rennala's rune. But now I believe it's Miquella's rune, for several reasons, one being it reminds me of Malenia's rune, and they are twins after all. Although Rennala and Malenia's runes are oddly similar, it just makes more sense to me that it would be Miquella's, considering we are following in his footsteps. I think these rune spikes are going to be our DLC equivalents of sites of grace.
"And so kindly Miquella would abandon everything. His golden flesh, his blinding strength..."
Abandoning his flesh is very reminiscent of Ranni... but why would he need to abandon his flesh? Perhaps after Mohg stole him away? Though I have to say, I'm warming up the idea that Mohg never actually had Miquella, he just thought he did. That might not make sense considering that body in Mohg's palace is how we get to the Shadow Lands, but I don't know, something about it doesn't sit quite right with me for some reason. The line 'his blinding strength' is a bit odd. I can't take credit for this next idea, I saw it on twitter, but someone suggested that this is referencing him potentially abandoning Malenia - his strength, his blade. For Miquella to abandon Malenia though, it doesn't exactly align with what we know of his character. This is the person that turned his back on the GO because it could do nothing for Malenia's sickness. He'd need a really good reason to do that to her. Maybe it was his only option? I'm so intrigued about why Miquella is even in the Shadow Lands to begin with. What are his motivations? Perhaps it's something to do with his proclivity to want to welcome all, especially those outside of Grace, I suppose those in the shadow lands fall under that mantle.
"Even his fate."
Now THIS is super interesting - our first look at St. Trina! In her usual purple - associated with sleep. It does also look like she's sleeping here, sinking... What on earth does it mean to say that Miquella abandoned his fate as we are shown an image of St. Trina? Was he meant to eventually become Trina fully? We don't know much about her, but we do know Trina is an aspect/alter-ego of some sort of Miquella. Considering his parents were one in the same body, it's not a stretch to assume this could be the same case here. But in Marika/Radagon's case, it doesn't seem completely intentional - with the Ring shattering, I always got the impression they each fought to be in control of their singular body. Perhaps Miquella/Trina worked together rather than against each other? The queer part of me can't help but think of some kind of allegory to transition and Miquella having to walk away from it for whatever reason... but I really don't know enough to figure anything out from this.
I saw someone point out that this shot of Trina looks like Trina's lilies too, which is super cool (sorry I don't remember who that was).
"But we are not deterred. We choose to follow. Will you walk with us?"
I'm honestly surprised to see all these characters that we saw in the previous trailer just hanging out, I assumed they'd all be enemies of different factions. But here they look like allies, and from the voiceover they sound like it too, asking if we will join them. I think the voiceover is one of these NPCs. Seeing the fighting guy second on the left has got me super excited, what if he teaches us the hands-on combat we saw him do in the first trailer? I also think the crouching character on the right is the one we saw sleeping in the purple area (Trina?) from the last trailer:
Anyway, these are my thoughts, I hope they resonate in one way or another. I can't wait to come back in a couple months and see how wrong I was <3 yayyy
I watched the trailer again and this looks more humanoid to me now - the thing Marika pulls from looks so much like a pregnant belly, I can't unsee it. I feel like I can make out the outline of a belly button. Instead of flesh, I now think that is fabric from whatever this character is wearing. This could still be a god, but this has got my mind whirring again... it makes so much sense with all the allusions to motherhood and pregnancy we've seen in the lead-up to the DLC. If it is a pregnant corpse, why did Marika need to take the grace (or whatever that thread is) from it? The Greater Will does seem to place importance on those that can give birth, maybe this is what gave Marika, a Numen, the ability to bear many children?