Daenerysstormreborn - Daenerys Storm(re)born

"My squire could take a lesson from you, it would seem. Frequent leechings are the secret of a long life. A man must purge himself of bad blood. You will do, I think. For so long as I remain at Harrenhal, Nan, you shall be my cupbearer, and serve me at table and in chambers." This time she knew better than to say that she'd sooner work in the stables. "Yes your lord. I mean, my lord." She filled Roose Bolton's cup, and did not spill a drop.

Arya IX, ACoK

Marked with numbers so I can go point by point. Sorry this is my sideblog so I can’t answer in the replies lol. @lives4lovesworld Content warning for discussion of rape and the sexualization of minors

1. Gross.

2. Also gross. I’d like to think maybe that’s because he wanted more subtlety to make viewers think for themselves, but given everything else…………… that seems generous.

3. I fully believe that Dany is unable to cope with the trauma of having been raped and abused so she rewrites her memories and romanticizes the past. There’s some language that alludes to this, like when she’s yearning for a lover she has to “remind” herself that it’s Drogo she wants. Additionally, I believe that if she were to accept the reality of who Drogo was and what he did, she’d realize that her choice to execute Mirri was wrong and unjust, given her stance that slaves should not be punished for rising up against their masters. While her grief over losing her baby in that moment was understandable and I don’t believe this action makes her evil by any stretch, I do believe it was wrong morally both in general and to Dany’s own morals. It is curious that she is sickened and horrified by the memory of other acts of violence, like the crucified masters and her brother’s death, but she does not reflect on Mirri. If she stops romanticizing Drogo she must confront not only her own abuse but also her own act of injustice. I think that realizing her dragons, the things that have brought her power, were born of an unjust killing, is something Dany cannot face. But I cannot speak to whether or not this was George’s intent or if it is just how I have interpreted Dany.

4. Tbh I find Lysa and Cersei to be extremely sympathetic. I think Cersei especially is an incredible character because she manages to be sympathetic and relatable to all sorts of women based on the injustices she has faced despite also being despicable. Lysa’s character is so sad too. Again, unsure of author intent, but I don’t personally find these portrayals offensive as a survivor of abuse and sexual violence. Abuse doesn’t produce nice people when they don’t have therapy and/or good coping skills and/or a solid support network.

5. Does he really sexualize Myrcella even?? 😭 I don’t remember anything like that.

6. Point taken. Even Brienne is much younger than Jaime but I think we tend to forget this because of the show. Ned and Davos are good counterexamples. Sam, Jon, and Quentyn too. But they’re all young themselves. Can’t recall if Theon ever desired teenage girls either. He dreamed of marrying Sansa but I’d attribute that more to his desire to be accepted as a Stark and the fact that Sansa is the older of the two girls rather than any actual interest in her. If I remember correctly, Aeron, Barristan, and Areo are all in the clear too. But Tyrion and Victarion… woof. Not to mention non-POV characters. If I were to play devil’s advocate a bit, I’d say it’s less related to physical attraction to teenage girls and more a matter of these girls being the easiest to exploit. They are more naive and have even less power than grown women. There’s the idea that they can be shaped into what the men desire. This is obvious still very sexist, but it’s more understandable to put into a story and makes more sense in a super patriarchal pseudo-medieval society than the notion that most men are just pedophiles.

7. Also can’t recall any underage characters being described as having ripe breasts. Just to check I searched the phrase on search of ice and fire and found that Tyrion uses it to describe Catelyn, Theon describes Asha’s breasts growing ripe before he knows it’s Asha, and Arys uses this phrase to describe Arianne. I also searched “breasts” and scrolled through until I ran out of steam. Roslin (16) is noted by Catelyn to have “shapely” breasts. Dany’s breasts are described……. Often. As either small or, when she was pregnant, swollen. It is weird the number of times they are noted even if the language is not strictly pornographic or voyeuristic. Shae’s breasts are also frequently described by Tyrion as small and firm, although Shae is 20-21. So it is weird how often underage girls’ breasts are commented on, especially Daenerys. I don’t think it pinged my consciousness because one may not notice how often it is until you’re presented with every instance of breasts being described since the language doesn’t read as pornographic.

8. This is a very good point. Nothing to add; it stands perfectly on its own.

9. I discuss this in 6. It is alarming how often it occurs but I don’t think it’s fair to say it’s every major male character aside from Jon.

10. I think it’s a bit of a weak argument for justifying the amount of rape. It’s fantasy. It’s only pseudo-medieval. Not everything has to be historically accurate.

11. George denies that Danny was raped by Drogo?! Does anyone have a direct quote on this? I’m trying to find one but cannot. It seems so shocking given the way he wrote her chapters that makes it obvious. I know that he called the wedding night a seduction but I don’t know the exact quote and I always thought he meant that she was coerced and groomed then vs raped by force.

12. This one is a bit touchy. I can look at this from two angles: whether or not it’s weird that he wrote this vs whether or not it’s realistic for a victim of sexual trauma. Because I’d like to gently push back on the claim that it’s unrealistic. This type of thing is not at all an uncommon trauma response. Becoming sex repulsed or even fully touched repulsed is just one way someone might respond to sexual trauma. I have complex PTSD as a result of abusive relationships as a teenage that did include sexual abuse. I can be paranoid and sex repulsed at times but more often I experience a lot of self-objectification and have trouble shaking the mindset that it is my duty to be sexually available and attractive in order to have any worth, and that’s WITH years and years of therapy. This kind of trauma response would especially make sense for someone who is barely willing to acknowledge that she abused at all, who romanticizes her abusers. It’s common for victims to, in a sense, re-enact trauma to try to get a different outcome. Re-roll the dice for a better ending. Daenerys has a lot more power than she did when she was married to Drogo, so the idea that she would try to recreate their sexual experience with Daario is perfectly in line with her internal narrative of events and totally makes sense for a victim of sexual violence who romanticizes her abuser. Engaging with Daario like this, someone she can project Drogo onto, also helps maintain the romanticized delusion I mentioned in point 3. If she recognizes that Daario is a creep then she must recognize that Drogo was too and from there it all comes crashing down.

Now, did George consider this when writing Dany’s story? Or is he just a creep who wanted to write more sex scenes for her? I can’t say. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. Which is probably my general takeaway on the topic as a whole. I don’t think he’d thoroughly a creep who just wrote all this to sexualize underage girls nor do I think he’s not at all a creep. I think we can and should be critical of these tendencies he has but also give credit where it’s due and acknowledge that on some level he wanted to criticize these things

George did NAWT write “it was her 14th name day” for y’all to say he sees Drogo and Dany as romantic while defending the age gap between Rhaegar and Lyanna. It is so so obvious that Dany was deeply traumatized by her marriage to Drogo and reacted to the trauma by romanticizing and reframing it both during and after the experience. Like I don’t think Rhaegar kidnapped an unwilling Lyanna but I also don’t think George intended for us to look at their situation uncritically he didn’t write about a ton of teenage girls dying in childbirth, with husbands much older than they are, for the sake of historical accuracy alone. I think George intentionally gives us two contradictory images of Rhaegar: the evil kidnapper who locked Lyanna away and the tortured-soul hero who truly loved Lyanna and did everything he could for her and I came to the understanding that the truth is somewhere in the middle.

The absolute DEATH GRIP that La Belle Dame sans Merci has on the asoiaf fandom is SO FUNNY like I’ve seen it recreated with basically every m/f ship there is like this painting has everyone in a chokehold

I am Sansa Stark, Lord Eddard’s daughter and Lady Catelyn’s, the blood of Winterfell.

bearer of the curse