I Find It So Intriguing That The Arguments Put Forth By The Greens Against The Blacks Were That There

I find it so intriguing that the arguments put forth by the Greens against the Blacks were that there shouldn't be a woman who should rule and no bastard should do so either and now, in ASOIAF, that's what is left of House Targaryen, a girl and a boy with a bastard's name.

"She wants fire, and Dorne sent her mud" Jon might be not mud like Quentyn was but he ain't fire either. y'all just focused on foreshadowing that can mean a variety of things and not that they are not each other's types so they normally can't be attracted to each other unless Jon after his resurrection turns him into some daring fuckboy or some romantic prince charming which is unlikely.

Anon, are you sure you’re not the one stretching the text to make it mean what you want it to mean?  "She wants fire", Jon isn’t fire,  therefore Jon isn’t her type? Phew. 

Anyway, Jon is daring (he’s hosting a wildling giant at the Wall, for Pete’s sake!) and he is romantic (dreaming of making love with Ygritte in the Godswood, showing her winter flowers at Winterfell, woah) and he might even be a prince, for all we know so far. He’s 16, give or take? So probably horny, as most 16 years old boys are, and Shireen, Alys Karstark, Val and Ygritte all seem to find him charming enough, so I’m not sure what your point is here.

the discourse for today is "dany stans" are making up that daenerys is magical

when literally

daenerys is azor ahai. ( When the red star bleeds and the darkness gathers, Azor Ahai shall be born again amidst smoke and salt to wake dragons out of stone. The bleeding star has come and gone, and Dragonstone is the place of smoke and salt. ) daenerys hatches dragons for the first time in centuries & this rebirth is quickly followed shierak qiya, the red comet.

george said it himself: "The whole point of the scene in A Game of Thrones where Daenerys hatches the dragons is that she makes the magic up as she goes along; she is someone who really might do anything."

she spends the first novel having dragon dreams that result in the resurrection of dragons

the warlocks in the house of the undying want to cannibalize her & her magic to become stronger themselves

this entire passage btw:

"Half a year gone, that man could scarcely wake fire from dragonglass. He had some small skill with powders and wildfire, sufficient to entrance a crowd while his cutpurses did their work. He could walk across hot coals and make burning roses bloom in the air, but he could no more aspire to climb the fiery ladder than a common fisherman could hope to catch a kraken in his nets." Dany looked uneasily at where the ladder had stood. Even the smoke was gone now, and the crowd was breaking up, each man going about his business. In a moment more than a few would find their purses flat and empty. "And now?" "And now his powers grow, Khaleesi. And you are the cause of it." "Me?" She laughed. "How could that be?" The woman stepped closer and lay two fingers on Dany's wrist. "You are the Mother of Dragons, are you not?" (ACOK, Daenerys III)

ALSO claiming daenerys is male gaze is so whack when you know damn well she's a genre breaking character

"She wants fire, and Dorne sent her mud" Jon might be not mud like Quentyn was but he ain't fire either. y'all just focused on foreshadowing that can mean a variety of things and not that they are not each other's types so they normally can't be attracted to each other unless Jon after his resurrection turns him into some daring fuckboy or some romantic prince charming which is unlikely.

Anon, are you sure you’re not the one stretching the text to make it mean what you want it to mean?  "She wants fire", Jon isn’t fire,  therefore Jon isn’t her type? Phew. 

Anyway, Jon is daring (he’s hosting a wildling giant at the Wall, for Pete’s sake!) and he is romantic (dreaming of making love with Ygritte in the Godswood, showing her winter flowers at Winterfell, woah) and he might even be a prince, for all we know so far. He’s 16, give or take? So probably horny, as most 16 years old boys are, and Shireen, Alys Karstark, Val and Ygritte all seem to find him charming enough, so I’m not sure what your point is here.

A few of the leaders and fighters that the Stark kids admired....

"Daeren Targaryen was only fourteen when he conquered Dorne," Jon said. The Young Dragon was one of his heroes. - Jon, AGoT They were not little boys when they fought, but knights and mighty heroes. "I'm Prince Aemon the Dragonknight," Jon would call out, and Robb would shout back, "Well, I'm Florian the Fool." Or Robb would say, "I'm the Young Dragon," and Jon would reply, "I'm Ser Ryam Redwyne." - Jon, ASoS When the Young Dragon conquered Dorne, he used a goat track to bypass the Dornish watchtowers on the Boneway." When Jon had been a boy at Winterfell, his hero had been the Young Dragon, the boy king who had conquered Dorne at the age of fourteen. Despite his bastard birth, or perhaps because of it, Jon Snow had dreamed of leading men to glory just as King Daeron had, of growing up to be a conqueror. - Jon, ADwD

Bran was going to be a knight himself someday, one of the Kingsguard. Old Nan said they were the finest swords in all the realm. Their names were like music to him. Serwyn of the Mirror Shield. Ser Ryam Redwyne. Prince Aemon the Dragonknight. - Bran, AGoT "I just forget," Bran complained. "I'm only nine. I'll be better when I'm older. Even Florian the Fool and Prince Aemon the Dragonknight weren't great knights when they were nine." - Bran, ASoS

Q: In particular, given that Nymeria was a warrior-queen, is there a certain amazon tradition? A: “The Rhoynar did impact Dorne in a number of ways, some of which will be revealed in later books. Women definitely have more rights in Dorne, but I would not call it an “Amazon” tradition, necessarily. Nymeria had more in common with someone like Daenerys or Joan d'Arc than with Brienne or Xena the Warrior Princess.” - GRRM

Arya named hers (Direwolf) after some old witch queen in the songs - Bran, AGoT

hi there! I was wondering if you could explain to me why a lot of people think that the passage you have in your sidebar (about the blue flower from ice) means Jon x Dany? When I read the passage I always assumed it was about Lyanna

Hi there!

It’s about Jon’s identity as Lyanna’s son, and how Dany interprets the introduction of that idea.

The first time we are introduced to Blue Roses, it’s through Ned’s memories of Lyanna:

Her eyes burned, green fire in the dusk, like the lioness that was her sigil. “The night of our wedding feast, the first time we shared a bed, he called me by your sister’s name. He was on top of me, in me, stinking of wine, and he whispered Lyanna.”

Ned Stark thought of pale blue roses, and for a moment he wanted to weep. “I do not know which of you I pity most.” (Eddard XII, AGOT)

“Promise me, Ned,” Lyanna’s statue whispered. She wore a garland of pale blue roses, and her eyes wept blood. (Eddard XIII, AGOT)

Robert had been jesting with Jon and old Lord Hunter as the prince circled the field after unhorsing Ser Barristan in the final tilt to claim the champion’s crown. Ned remembered the moment when all the smiles died, when Prince Rhaegar Targaryen urged his horse past his own wife, the Dornish princess Elia Martell, to lay the queen of beauty’s laurel in Lyanna’s lap. He could see it still: a crown of winter roses, blue as frost. (Eddard XV, AGOT)

It’s clearly laying a trail here–that we are supposed to associate Lyanna with these blue roses.  But, more specifically, we are supposed to associate Ned’s guilt with Lyanna’s blue roses.  They are, to Ned, a symbol of her love, her death, and the promise he made to protect her son and lie about his identity for years.  The roses are a symbol that Jon is Lyanna’s son.

This gets compounded in A Clash of Kings when Ygritte tells Jon (Jon!) the story of Bael the Bard:

“North or south, singers always find a ready welcome, so Bael ate at Lord Stark’s own table, and played for the lord in his high seat until half the night was gone. The old songs he played, and new ones he’d made himself, and he played and sang so well that when he was done, the lord offered to let him name his own reward. ‘All I ask is a flower,’ Bael answered, ‘the fairest flower that blooms in the gardens o’ Winterfell.’”

“Now as it happened the winter roses had only then come into bloom, and no flower is so rare nor precious. So the Stark sent to his glass gardens and commanded that the most beautiful o’ the winter roses be plucked for the singer’s payment. And so it was done. But when morning come, the singer had vanished…and so had Lord Brandon’s maiden daughter. Her bed they found empty, but for the pale blue rose that Bael had left on the pillow where her head had lain.”…“Lord Brandon had no other children. At his behest, the black crows flew forth from their castles in the hundreds, but nowhere could they find any sign o’ Bael or this maid. For most a year they searched, till the lord lost heart and took to his bed, and it seemed as though the line o’ Starks was at its end. But one night as he lay waiting to die, Lord Brandon heard a child’s cry. He followed the sound and found his daughter back in her bedchamber, asleep with a babe at her breast.“ 

“Bael had brought her back?”

“No. They had been in Winterfell all the time, hiding with the dead beneath the castle. The maid loved Bael so dearly she bore him a son, the song says… though if truth be told, all the maids love Bael in them songs he wrote. Be that as it may, what’s certain is that Bael left the child in payment for the rose he’d plucked unasked, and that the boy grew to be the next Lord Stark. So there it is—you have Bael’s blood in you, same as me.”(Jon VI, ACOK)

So you have this story about a secret stark baby who is also strongly associated with blue winter roses.  This story, told to Jon, is undoubtedly allegorical about Jon himself, for what matters is that this little bastard Stark (for as far as we’re aware, the young lady Stark and Bael didn’t marry) became Lord of Winterfell after he was kept secret and his mother had been “abducted.”  In this case, that blue winter rose is symbolic of the exchange of the mother for the son, the maiden for the next Lord Stark.

So we have this blue flower symbol that’s staggeringly heavily laden with weight about how Jon’s Lyanna’s son, and then we have Dany, in the house of the undying:

A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness…

There’s a lot of symbolism in that chapter, and what everything means is something that’s still very up in the air.  But given 1) the blue flower symbolism for Jon’s identity as Lyanna’s son and 2) the wall of ice (ie, the Wall where he became Lord Commander), it’s fair to assume that it means him, and that that subsequent “filled the air with sweetness” is Dany’s own interpretation of what that flower physically leads her to feel.  It’s wistful, it’s longing, it’s loving, and it means Jon.