Lyanna Stark - Tumblr Posts
HOLLOW ; “having a hole or empty space inside”
“and seven kingdoms couldn’t fill the hole she left behind”
Robert’s victory was hollow cause it didn’t give him Lyanna back and after became knight of the hollow hill Gendry stayed with brotherhood and it was mean to lose Arya.
I never understand how can people see a love story between Rhaegar and Lyanna. Shipping them is one thing but thinking them as lovers on the books is another thing. People blame Robert as “he never knew under the beauty” but all Robert did as a high lord making a good match for his house. So people likes to think Robert was a rubbish and when Lyanna saw Rhaegar she suddenly fell in love to him. How can Rhaegar knows about Lyanna by the way? He saw her as a knight of the laughing tree and then he fell in love to her? And then she decided to go after a married prince? She was also has fiancee but that’s not even matter. This could be stupid act for Lyanna. Remember she was like 15 and made a sentence like “love is sweet Ned, but it can not change a men’s nature”. I think we’ll see this sentence not just describe Robert but also Rhaegar.
Making Jon the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna kinda ruined many characters.
1) The point of Jon being a bastard is to show how Westeros society treats bastards kids badly. Remove Jon from being a bastard, name one bastard that actually good except for Tommen and Marcella? Joffrey, Ramsey, Daemon Blackfyre, Three Eyed Crow, Aegor Bittersteel etc are all brought bad to Westeros. Jon being NOT bastard shows maybe Westeros is right about bastard being bad.
2) Lyanna becomes an idiot. She hates Robert for being womanizer and has many bastards but chooses a married man? Goes willingly than being kidnapped basically make her responsible for her father and brother death. This is why I believe the theory she been used for blood ritual. Ser Arthur Dayne was at Tower of Joy, not to protect her but to keep her as a prisoner.
3) I am more willing to accept Rhaegar is evil and stupid because who thought Rhaegar pitches idea that if Lyanna married him to make prophecy baby make sense? Melisandre believes in prophecy too but at least she has strategy. The act of crowning Lyanna Stark, betrothed to Robert Baratheon, sister to Ned Stark infront of Elia Martell singlehandedly embarrassed four houses including House Targaryen.
some random sketches.. lyanna, my son bran and a young jaime
Is Lyanna really as terrible as some people portray her as?
no, not even a little bit.
the absolute most important thing about lyanna is that when she dies she is only 16. i am someone who works with kids - i work in a library so i spend most of my days cleaning up after tweens and asking teenagers to please stop doing dumb shit- and the first thing anyone who has ever worked with kids and especially teenagers is that they may look like adults but they are NOT. they don’t understand boundaries, they have next to zero impulse control, and every bad thing that happens feels like the worst thing ever because it very likely IS the worst thing they’ve ever experienced bc they have not been alive that long!
and this goes for every single teen & tween character in this series, not just lyanna! shit, i am someone who feels an immense amount of sympathy for joffrey! on one side he’s got his mother telling him he can do anything he wants with no repercussions and on the other he’s got his father hitting him so hard that stannis thought joffrey was going to die. and then he is given unchecked power and told not to abuse it! EYE cannot even guarantee that i wouldn’t use unchecked power to do shady shit and i am a fully grown adult, not a traumatized, irrationally, and deeply vindictive 13 year old boy.
but honestly the most important thing about lyanna is that we have ZERO CONTEXT for what happens between her and Rhaegar. What we have is
Ned’s sparse & guilt ridden thoughts about Lyanna and one (1) comment about Rhaegar
Robert’s angry, entitled, and grief ridden outbursts about Lyanna and Rhaegar
Barristan’s incredibly romanticized, guilt & grief ridden take on their relationship
Meera’s second hand account of Lyanna, told to her by a father who is likely just as guilt & grief ridden as the others, who likely has his own view of Lyanna
What’s important to note is that our view of her is heavily filtered through the eyes of the men that knew her. Robert loves an idealized version of her that never existed. Barristan never actually knew her. Ned is not only viewing her under 200 layers of guilt and grief, but very obviously does not understand his sister, or why she made the choices she did, and struggles constantly with knowing that he will never know her the way he wishes he could, the way he thought he did. Given the way Meera describes Lyanna, I actually think Howland is our most accurate look at her but even that is buried behind years of grief & a fair amount of hero worship and affection (“that’s my fathers man you’re kicking howled the she-wolf” is a line that makes me WEEP for this exact reason; Howland sees Lyanna as his hero above all else!).
All of that to say - we don't even know what Lyanna did that was so terrible! Even if she was a grown woman capable of making rational decisions, we have no idea what her decisions were. She could have been lied to, misled, kidnapped, threatened, just as surely as she could have walked into the situation with open eyes. Even in the show, with a slightly aged up Lyanna - we get, what, just Sam's opinion on Rhaegar and Lyanna being in love because they got hitched? Completely ignoring the fact that we had several women in this series get married not because they were in love or willing but because someone more powerful decided on it and that was that, so there's still no evidence that Lyanna had enough information about the situation to make any sort of informed, consensual decision.
so no, i do not hold lyanna responsible for anything at all that happened regardless of how it happened because she was not mentally mature enough to understand what the hell was going on. a 15 year old is just not mature enough to think “if i run off with this married man, it’s going to cause a cascade of political issues that could have disastrous consequences.” what she’s probably thinking is “this man says he can help me and i am fucking miserable and no one else will listen.” it’s why we don’t throw 15 year olds who run away to meet up with old dudes they met online in jail when they’re caught (or theoretically why we don’t punish them at any rate). There is one person and one person only who is responsible for the massive fuck up that is the Elia-Rhaenys-Aegon-Lyanna-Jon mess and that is RHAEGAR, the person with the most amount of power who used it in the dumbest way imaginable and got himself, most of his heirs, his wife, and his teenaged mistress killed. The only other people responsible are the Kingsguard who kept Lyanna under lock and key while she lay dying and pleading for her brother to come save her.
favorite thing in asoiaf is that the stark family tree is just filled with haters in every generation. theon stark brandon snow alaric stark cregan stark even ned's brother brandon and lyanna too. even the current kids jon snow robb sansa and arya all have some kendrick lamar level of beef w at least one person. brandon the builder spawned an entire genre of haters
lyanna and her nieces, had she survived
lyanna talking to arya about swordsmanship, and lyanna gifting sansa a no-face doll (the starks are native and no one can tell me otherwise)
“Lay me by the frozen river, where the boats have passed me by. All I need is to remember, how it was to feel alive.” ~Winter Bird, AURORA
Lyanna Stark, the She-Wolf
So we all know GRRM, like all authors, took a lot of inspo from real life fairy tales, religion, and mythology. There are a ton of parallels but I picked out a few to put in this poll
Propaganda: Before anyone says anything, I know a lot of these are dark spins on the original. I’m not trying to say Littlefinger is a handsome prince or whatever. Also note that some of this is based on either things that haven’t happened yet but are highly likely to happen in Winds/Dream up to and including being confirmed by GRRM.
Arya and Jaqen as Hades and Persephone-the young maiden of spring is found by the lord of the underworld, who gives her an object (in this case a coin) to trick her into being trapped in the world of the dead. When she leaves home, winter comes, but when she returns, so does spring.
Sansa as Rapunzel-a princess locked in a tower by an evil sorceress (or just queen) who is spirited away by a man who wants to marry her. Strong focus on her hair as a symbol of her identity.
The Brotherhood Without Banners as Robin Hood and his Merry Men-a band of outlaws who defend the common people against corrupt authority figures. This one is really self explanatory.
Cersei as the evil queen and Margaery/Sansa/eventually Dany as Snow White-a vain, cruel women terrified of her beauty fading and being replaced by a younger woman who outshines her, so she tries to destroy her perceived rival, ultimately leading to her own downfall. The girls in Snow Whites slot are the popular choices for the identity of the YMBQ and the one Cersei is currently convinced it is.
Jaime and Brienne as Beauty and the Beast-a double subversion. Jaime is handsome and Brienne is ugly, but when they meet she’s brave and kind while he’s selfish and cruel, so it’s the beast who helps the beauty be better.
Lyanna, Rhaegar, and Robert as Helen of Troy, Paris, and Menelaus-a beautiful woman fiercely desired by two powerful men, she either runs off with or is kidnapped by a prince, leading to her (soon to be) husband retaliating by starting a tragic war.
Stannis and Shireen as Agammemon and Iphegenia-a king and commander sacrifices his daughter to the gods to win a war. Bonus if this ends up causing Stannis’ downfall.
Lady Stoneheart as Demeter-a mother wanders the land bringing destruction and misery as she searches for her daughter(s.) When her daughters return to her, spring comes.
Cersei and Jaimes children as the emperor wearing no clothes-the emperor walks around naked insisting that he’s a wearing magic invisible outfit, but everyone is afraid to tell him the truth until finally a child points out that he’s wearing nothing at all. See: everyone pretending not to notice that Cerseis children are the result of incest with her brother, and Ned finally realizing the truth when his 11 year old daughter points out that Joffrey is nothing like Robert.
Bran as the Fisher King-the Fisher King is a character from Arthurian myth. He is the guardian of the magical holy grail, protecting it so it (and power) does not fall into the hands of the unworthy. Notably, he also has a deliberating injury to his legs or groin (depending on the version.) Of course the endgame Bran of the show is a blatant rip-off of Leto II from Children of Dune, but I think the Fisher King sounds more like GRRM would do.
Dany as Moses-a leader who has prophetic visions, who after performing a miracle, frees her people from slavery and leads them on a harsh journey to a new land. Notably regarded as a critically important figure by a monotheistic religion.
working on a wee storyboard thing - a certain prince gets knocked off his horse while chasing the Knight of the Laughing Tree and shenanigans ensue
robert’s rebellion series but in keeping with GRRM’s “no king pov policy” we watch robert’s rise through jon arryn’s eyes a parallel to catelyn’s horror in watching her son’s royal rise and fall but this time robert rises and rises while jon gradually realizes they picked the wrong man for the crown
no rhaegar or lyanna pov either. we’re stuck between whatever they see fit to tell elia, arthur and benjen. all contrasting in what they think they know or how much they believe what they were told. the readers are as confused as the realm.
What is honor compared to a woman’s love? What is duty against the feel of a newborn son in your arms… or the memory of a brother’s smile? Wind and words. Wind and words. We are only human, and the gods have fashioned us for love. That is our great glory, and our great tragedy.
Jon Snow - and family that haunts him, because sometimes ghosts make for the best love stories.
God this is amazing
Before any thing English is my third language please if there is any mistake do correct me it will help me improve
In my head I was always like no lyanna isn't choosing rhaegar per say but she is choosing the crown or rather the crowns power the power to get away from a man she despise (happy about toddlers and babys death, sent killers after a berly teen, sleeping with whores will trying to save the "love of his life", the physical violence with cercei, him being a horrible king)
She probably saw him like he really is not that idealistic version that Ned had as a brother and a friend, which isn't an act when he is ned's "brother" he is respectful and nice, his character doesn't change with him until ned is hand of the king AKA his servitor
So I think that lyana loved rhaegar in the same way cercei did,
"Had any man ever been so beautiful? He was more than a man, though. His blood was the blood of old Valyria, the blood of dragons and gods
—thoughts of Cersei Lannister"
They saw the nice soft spoken prince and concluded on the need to tie there future with him, because he is the prince, and both there family's wanted power and what a better position than future queen
Lyana stark didn't want to be "selfish" when she spoke to her family and understood that she was nothing more than a bargaining tool in this situation she just wished to strike a better deal for both her family and more importantly herself
Maybe she loved him or maybe she didn't, she just hopped to gain in the change, what is true is that the mans in westeros played the game with womens life's for centuries starting wars and rebellions for less, had Rickard consulted his daughter instead of his sons maybe he would have gained more.
Lyanna sow a chance for some liberating power that would have offered more to her family than her old betrothal, but like every body who doesn't win at the game of thrones she died.
This is a reply in regards to this post, which highlights the high likelihood that, whether people are fine with the author's choices or not, RxL is written by him with romantic nuance as far as the text goes. @sahtinekryze
And I think this fandom really needs to have a honest analysis of the idea of "selfishness" in narrative choices such as this, which is that when it comes to how the whole "duty vs love" scenarios Martin writes, he does not actually writes it with some wide spectrum ranging from selfish to sacrificial. There are usually no other choices than the two.
Could one define the alleged choice of breaking a noble marriage contract that would have negative political influence at the least, had it been the best case scenario (which one would logically assume the two might have hoped for instead of very lots of people dying including themselves) as 'selfish', which in its very definition is doing something for one's self, though it may not be advantageous for others? Yes.
But as I said, Martin doesn't write a middle ground. There's that, or Lyanna marries an unwanted man and is hence forced to have a non-consensual relationship with him, and forced to carry children out of a noncon relationship, so that her male relatives can reap benefits of political power, as well as her groom through her womb. And as shows inspired by these books love to show us very graphic such cases (like Daenerys in GOT, or the storyline given to show!Sansa, or the changes for show!Alicent in HOTD), I am sure fans should have learnt better about the accusations usually thrown at Lyanna in fandom spaces in regards to being another woman marrying against her will in a society where a woman cannot say no, marital rape isn't recognised, and a husband is "just taking his rights": that "this is just being whiny". (There are many other examples in the books; the author is also not holding back on what unwanted or unsuitable marriages mean to women.)
Against the fanon idea that she is some wild, demanding, conceited girl, she doesn't rage, she doesn't bite. She has a tentative, soft spoken conversation with her brother about it and her reluctance in the matter, and is (nicely) dismissed.
Had she not (allegedly, while all is unconfirmed) fallen for the Crown Prince and he for her, there is no one else powerful enough to extract her from her situation (her male relatives having made up their own minds in the matter), nor anyone else to go from where she cannot be recovered by a powerful and connected family and fiance. No one else she could marry/sleep with that wouldn't be shut down and covered (as seen with Tyrion or Lysa) to preserve the higher price for which her womb can be bartered. Just no other viable choice that wasn't the other end of the scale: a woman being sacrificed by men, for men's uses.
As I said at the start, this is simply how Martin writes these conflicts of "mind and heart". He corners the characters. There is no light at the end of the tunnel that isn't also sort of "selfish" and "dumb" looking on the surface.
This can be applied to more such situations in the text-
Catelyn undoes the already precarious state of her son's campaign by releasing their most valuable captive. She has not even a guarantee that her 'selfish' act for love will work. But there are no options she's given. No one else cares to make it a priority to get her daughters back. The only other choice is to let it be and let 2 girls be sacrificed in marriages of ill intent to use their wombs and discard them, unsure if she will find anything left of them but Lannister named babies when this is over. It is "selfish". It is "dumb". Yet she's cornered.
Jon makes the decision to go fight Ramsay Bolton because he's run out of options and he's cornered. Arya is allegedly in the hands of the family that have viciously killed a number of Starks and taken Winterfell. She is 11 and allegedly married. He is made sick at the thought of what is being done to her. He's tried the "lesser" tactics of getting her rescued without being seen as trespassing the status quo of the NW publicly, by sending others for her. But it was always going to come to this. Ramsay guesses (or finds out) that his escaped bride would make it to the Wall. Keeping "peace" and "doing his duty" instead of "being selfish and dumb" is handing over "Arya" himself if she even makes it to appease the Lord of Winterfell, sacrificing a girl to an unwanted marriage meant to use her for her womb and discard her.
There are no actual choices when there is no actual scale in between "selfish and dumb" and the sacrifice of a girl (or, you know, 2,3, as many as Westeros would swallow as it did for millennia for this or that Lord or King to amass and keep power), whether they are Lannisters trying to get Winterfell, or Starks extinguishing the line of the Warg King.
ASOIAF AU
In an AU where Brandon runs off and marries Barbrey Ryswell and Ned has to marry Catelyn Tully instead. Lyanna still disappears with Rhaegar while Ned and Robert are traveling for the wedding to Riverrun. How would Ned react in this situation?
ASOIAF Modern AU
Jon is the sullen, unpopular younger son of King Rhaegar by his second wife, Lady Lyanna Snow. His older siblings, Crown Prince Aegon and Princess Rhaenys, as well as his uncle, Prince Viserys, and aunt Princess Daenerys, are much more popular with Westerosi press and public, despite their many shenanigans. In contrast, Jon is seen as this sullen, haughty young man who prefers his life as a member of the Night's Watch (no longer a dumping ground for criminals, but a respected northern regiment) to life in the South. His mother does not help matters much; unlike Princess Elia, who was a devout worshipper of the Seven, Lyanna follows the religion of the First Men. And she hates court etiquette and the press. She's seen to be responsible for breaking up the "fairytale" marriage of Prince Rhaegar and Princess Elia. That's when Tyrion Lannister, Prince Jon's private secretary, turns to journalist and social media expert Sansa Stark for help in raising/improving Jon's public profile. Sansa agrees because she feels that Jon's improved public profile can only help the North. So, how do Tyrion and Sansa convince a stubborn Jon to agree to follow their plan?