One Thing That Will Always Upset Me About The Mikaelson Family Is How Young They Are In Vampire Standards.

One thing that will always upset me about the Mikaelson family is how young they are in vampire standards. They're supposed to be the oldest family in history, the first vampires to ever live and they're just a thousand years old??? They should have been older.

In the books, Klaus was over a six thousand years old and born in the Bronze Age and he was also a lot worse - his siblings didn't even exist.

Hello, so a couple of things I wanted to address regarding your takes on Hope and the Mikaelson family. So, I don't take anything from TO or Legacies as face value. I didn't even watch Legacies, because I was over TVD universe by that point. And I didn't even finish TVD or TO, because of how unbearingly bad they got. But I know enough about how the rest of the show turned out to give my take on things too. 

For a show that was supposed to be centered around redeeming Klaus and Hope being the source of redemption for the Mikaelson family, the writers failed miserably in that aspect. For one, they rewrote history, retconned their entire backstory, and made the characters incredibly out of character. Worst thing the writers could've done. There was no redemption or character development whatsoever for anyone. In fact, everyone got worse and became more unlikable as the seasons went on. 

You're saying Rebekah and Freya would've been terrible mothers and claiming that they were bitter, jealous, and resentful of Hope or even of their own kids, when we never saw anything that supports that notion. And it's unfair you single out the women in the Mikaelson family, but say nothing whatsoever about the Mikaelson men, who were just as unfit and unstable to be a parent or have any child under their care. How do you justify saying Rebekah and Freya would've been bad mothers, but justify Klaus and Hayley's shitty parenting? 

If we're gonna call a spade a spade, Hayley was the very definition of a terrible mother. She constantly endangered herself and Hope while she was pregnant and even after she gave birth and just pawned her kid off to Eve or whoever else to involve herself in dangerous situations she really had no business getting involved in, when she could've been there with Hope. Same with Klaus, he most definitely wasn't father of the year. And there's also all the times they neglected Hope as a baby countless times and would often leave her alone during the most dangerous situations too.

If Rebekah and Freya didn't deserve to be mothers or to have a chance at a normal human life, Hayley and Klaus deserved it even less. Overall, I don't get why you or anyone else are so surprised at the Mikaelsons turning out to be deadbeats and abandoning Hope, when their entire family history and dysfunctional family dynamic speaks for itself. You even pointed it out yourself, that the Mikaelson family are unstable. So, why so surprised at this outcome? What else did you expect? And that's the epitome of why having a spinoff about the Mikaelsons centered around a baby of all things failed miserably. It was the worst mistake the writers could've made and the worst route the writers could've gone.

I'll make sure to let this clear for anyone who decides to read through: I didn't finish The Vampire Diaries, I only got to watch season five before the plot bored me and I just watched season one and half of season two of Legacies, but I have read enough over the years and I know all that happens in the three shows, what characters appear and etc.

Is funny how you complain about the Mikaelson and company being "out of character" as if they hadn't been already ooc in season three. Klaus loved witches and the writers completely erased that from his character because recognizing it would mean having him go for Bonnie. Caroline was mean before turning into a vampire, and if they had followed the established lore and canon of vampirism, she would have been just worse than she was as a human instead of the preppy girl she turned into. They completely trashed Elena's character to have her fall for Damon and forget about Stefan, so the fact that you're complaining about this sounds like just an excuse to shit on both shows.

I don't know why you're so pressed about Hope's existence. I have never said she was her family's redemption, I have always said she wasn't and that it was completely unfair of Elijah to put that burden on a baby. She was a plothole and I have stated that her character shouldn't have been made no matter how loved she is. But saying she had no impact on her family is stupid: Hope didn't made them stop being monsters, that's true, but she played a big part on making them change themselves.

Her existence forced her father to stop seeing only for himself, she united Klaus and Rebekah after they literally tried to kill each other by making Bex look after her when she was only a baby, Elijah finally stopped taking his brother's side in everything and she made their toxic codependent relationships slightly better. But at the end of the day, Hope was just a kid and a kid would never erase a thousand years of trauma, abuse and toxicity. It's true, she wasn't her family's redemption but she's the only reason why they stopped being shitty to each other.

There is evidence of why Rebekah would be a bad mother, just see how she behaves around children/teenagers. Marcel was ten and she groomed him, the moment her niece grew up and she couldn't play house with her any longer she left her in the dust, all while remembering how she spent "glorious months covered in dirt" because she spent less than a year with her as a baby and that is what she wanted, a baby, not a child, and just look at how she acted with Elena and Caroline. Rebekah was jealous of both of them, she was jealous of Hayley and Freya herself even made a joke about how she would be jealous of their own niece - it was about how she would stay nineteen forever hence beauty forever, but my point remains.

Rebekah would be a bad mother as far as we know in canon because everything suggests that. She's a child herself, just seventeen and her brain isn't even fully developed yet: she's easily jealous, tends to have emotional issues and has a low self esteem. What would be weird is that she wouldn't be jealous and a bad mother to her child, not otherwise. I love her, but she is a bad person and doesn't deserve to be a mom.

Freya is literally the same. She was traumatized with the child she lost and she viewed him/her on Hope, but she never gave a damn about making sure her seven years old niece didn't grow up traumatized and she completely forgot about her the moment Nik was born so yes, this information is enough for me to think she would be a bad mother. And look at what she did to Davina, who was barely eighteen.

The Mikaelson didn't and still don't deserve a normal happy life simply because they aren't good persons. They would be shitty parents, the two canon parents we have (Klaus and Freya) are bad parents and they don't even know how to behave around teenagers.

Saying Hayley is a bad mother is wild. Did you want her to stay home with Jackson while her daughter's family was being attacked every time they breathed? Hayley never put herself in a dangerous situation while pregnant willingly, it was always people coming after her and their child because she was carrying a Mikaelson kid. I don't know how she "pawned" her kid to somebody else to go help the Mikaelson, she was fighting with them because once again, they were Hope's family. She made some shitty choices, yes, but she was stuck in the most dangerous family to ever exist and the only way out was death: she never had the chance to decide if she actually wanted to have Hope. Both Elijah and Klaus forced it on her, they never asked her if she wanted an abortion and it was quite clear she would have died if she tried getting one.

I guess you pulled all of this information from your ass, because I never justified Klaus’s shitty parenting; I've always said time and time again he was a bad father, and I never said I was surprised at the Mikaelson being deadbeats when they already were in The Originals.

I don't know why you say the show "failed miserably" when it didn't: the rankings are good, it was nominated for awards a plenty of times and it is the favorite show of more than half of the fandom.

How did you feel with Hope’s and Rebekah’s interactions in legacies? I was really disappointed in Rebekah. I understand that Klaus and Hayley would’ve hated to see Hope without her humanity, but Rebekah had no right to say that Klaus would be disappointed in Hope. Hope has been through so much, and no one in her family seemed to care. Rebekah, and the rest of the mikaelsons, seemingly abandoned Hope - which would’ve disappointed Klaus, Hayley, and Elijah way more than Hope unwillingly turning off her humanity. Say what you will about Elijah, and you can say a lot because he was awful (especially towards Marcel), but he wouldn’t have allowed Hope to deal with malivore and a random god alone. It still makes me angry that the Mikaelsons helped Hope regain her humanity but scattered when she was in danger once more because of some idiotic god named Ken.

Rebekah got on my nerves so badly, to be honest. She showed up out of nowhere after years of no contact and she just expected Hope to be happy and not hold a grudge against the fact that they left her completely alone to die???

Honestly, the Mikaelson (and by this I mean Kol, Rebekah and Freya) did not care for Hope that much even in The Originals. They had set crazy expectations in her and once they saw Hope didn't fit their happily ever after, they dumped her.

I'm not saying they didn't love her because they clearly did, but they cared more about her being the redemption of their family/what she was supposed to "fix" way more than they cared for Hope herself: in my opinion, the only people who didn't see her as their redemption were Klaus and Hayley and don't get me wrong, Klaus was a shitty father but at least he along with Hayley never put any expectation in her.

I mean, Freya already expressed her little interest in making sure Hope kept her innocence as a kid in this conversation:

[HAYLEY: I've done plenty wrong in my life, Freya. But things are different now. I have a sweet little girl who's going around healing injured fireflies with her magic. If we're keeping someone captive in our barn, she's gonna have questions.

FREYA: Then tell her that the world's a bad place and that sometimes we have to do bad things to survive. She'll be safer if she learns that early.

HAYLEY: It's not her job to keep herself safe. It's mine. It's ours. And that includes protecting her innocence.

FREYA: She's a Mikaelson -- she can live without her innocence. She can't live without her family. She's a Mikaelson, and you're-]

And as any other Mikaelson loves doing, Freya made sure to remind her of why Hayley would never be actually part of her family: she doesn't share their blood. I mean, look at Hope; she does share their blood and yet they didn't give a damn about her, Freya didn't care about making sure she grew as normal as possible (extremely difficult with their lifestyle), Rebekah ditched Hope the moment she stopped being a baby because she couldn't live her fantasy of wanting to cosplay as a mother and Kol wasn't even allowed to be around her when she was a baby, and then they never actually developed a bond once she grew up.

Of course, this is controversial because in The Originals, judging by the phone call Hope has with Kol, the way she behaves around Freya and that line in Legacies about Rebekah teaching her how to dance, it is implied they were close enough to have a good relationship and that they did care for her. And she's even closer to Marcel, if we take into account how comfortable and happy they act with each other.

Freya did say she saw Hope as the kid she lost and of course, the moment she had a kid of her own she dumped her. Rebekah was obsessed with being a mother and yet it's proven time and time again to be a shitty person around kids: the grooming with Marcel, being mean to Elena and Caroline because she was jealous and not giving a damn about Hope once she grew up and then we have Kol, who funnily enough seems to be closer to her than Freya and Rebekah and of course Marcel, the person Hope loves more than any of her blood relatives lol.

Don't get me wrong, Legacies played a big part in the way the Mikaelson ruined their relationship with Hope, but I don't get why people act so surprised and hurt about their abandonment of her when there were already signs of this in The Originals. The only reason they even stayed together for a millennium was because of Elijah and because Klaus refused to let them go, so of course they would fall apart once they died.

And yes, I agree with the whole Elijah thing. He loved Hope a lot once he got to know her in season five and he would have never left her alone in the Salvatore school, but he would also never have allowed her to stay that long on it.

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I can't believe the topic of what happened between Damon and Caroline is still being debated, as if it should've ever been debated in the first place. Damon 100% raped and abused Caroline, and Elena 100% knew about it and still chose to be with him anyway, because she gave no shits about anyone else but herself and was a shit friend and a piece of shit in general. And you wonder why people hated Elena so much? For that exact reason right there and deservedly so. Stop being so stupid and in denial. And Caroline being the one to actively pursue Damon first and consenting to sex one time only doesn't make what Damon did null and void. The dude is still a fucking rapist and abuser. I get you hate Caroline, but come one now.

Jesus. Take a pill and calm down lmao, no one is attacking you.

There is no evidence of Elena being aware of the rape because the writers decided to act as if Damon never touched Caroline: I'm aware he did, he forced himself on her and the show never addressed or even recognized the trauma she endured. Just as they decided to act as if he didn't also rape Andy and as if Katherine hadn't raped Stefan and as if Klaus hadn't made out with Care in Tyler's body, which is no matter what sexual abuse all the same, especially because Caroline was gonna have sex with him - I don't think he would have went further with her, though.

I do agree however with the fact that Damon 100% raped Caroline, Stefan probably knew (as it's implied) and people pretending otherwise is just stupid and awful. This conversation says everything we need to know:

[Stefan: They are people, Damon. She's not a puppet. She doesn't just exist for your amusement, for you to feed on whenever you want to.

Damon: Sure she does. They all do. They're whatever I want them to be. They're mine for the taking.

Stefan: All right, you've had your fun. You used Caroline, you got to me and Elena, good for you. Now it's time for you to go.

Damon: That's not a problem. Because... I've been invited in... and I'll come back tomorrow night, and the following night, and I'll do...with your little cheerleader whatever I want... to do, because that is what is normal... for me.]

But blaming Elena for it is straight up disgusting. As far as I know, the only time she brought up her "relationship" with Damon was in season four, some comment about how Caroline jumped in bed with him. She would have never said that if she knew he had raped her, and it's left ambiguous for a reason.

Liz was the best friend of the man who raped her daughter, Caroline got along well with the woman who raped her husband and Caroline herself was forced to get along with Damon, the man who abused her and traumatized her. Deciding if x person knew what had happened has always been our choice, the writers would never dare to address the sexual abuse this characters did simply because they were fan favorite.

Being honest it's quite stupid of your part to act as if Caroline herself wasn't also a bad friend. Everyone in the Mystic Falls gang was at one point. Hating Elena - and Matt - was literally a trend that started in social media and got out of hand because people got caught up in it, everyone was crying when Nina left and everyone hates season seven just because she wasn't on it, the character people despise so badly. And the fact that you're implying I've ever defended a rapist is fucking disgusting, I've never done that and I've never will, stop being stupid and grow the fuck up, the way toxic stans lose their shit because people don't like Caroline is ridiculous.