Vampire Lord Of Avernus

vampire lord of avernus

gonna get back to this comic after i finish my durge run

“You will come to my bed tonight, won’t you?”

Beautiful. An interesting and refreshing point of view. Thank you. The romance with the Ascended Astarion is a complex nice dynamic and can be played very differently. My Tav will be sad if Astarion isn't watching. My Tav is probably pretty obsessed as well. It really depends on Tav.

I'm always watching - Ascended Astarion

Acended Astarion seems like a complex relationship dynamic between the characters him and Tav, especially when Astarion has ascended. In this state, he exhibits a certain obsession towards Tav. He watches her/him, stays close, and loves her intensely. Although he still seems to be himself, there's a hint of increased ambition or power hunger. Nevertheless, his primary desire is Tav, and the obsession and scrutiny provide him with a sense of security. The toxicity of this behavior depends on Tav's character.

Even after a breakup, Astarion continues to love and miss Tav. He appears to be internally conflicted, and his thoughts might sound something like:

"Keep you close to me. I long to for you. I need you. I can give you everything you need."

These lines express a mix of longing, love, and the acknowledgment of the need to give Tav the choice, reflecting the potential for the relationship to be perceived as toxic or not, depending on Tav's response.

That's exactly how I felt seeing those answers from Tav and hearing him talk about love. People take it too literally. They treat him like he's not the same Astarion anymore. He really wants to be the not-so-Astarion - in his mind, weak and pathetic. He wants to be the Lord that nothing can control. Not even feelings. Astarion is always the trickster. No, the character was written for 3 acts, and then instead of revealing his dark side, his complexity - in a full-blown evil ending it is now "not Astarion" - no soul, lost himself, no feelings, Cazador 2 - The Great Absurd of fandom. He doesn't even have to say anything to Tav is he doesn't care, he doesn't have to offer to "be allies in crime". DnD5 rules and true vampirism - and the feelings of vampires - add complexity to analyze, it's already a more rational position. But what about the Ascension and the "first living" vampire. That could have an impact. Well even vampires are a bit more complicated, according to DnD2 for sure. They have their own feelings. If vampire distortion would have an effect, spawns have it working too. But the discussion about vampirism and its influence - is it worth such attention - when it's already confirmed that it's Astarion himself, still him.

Man, it adds nobility points to Lord Astarion that he realizes the kind of love he's offering - decadence, danger and no turning back. This is where the "degrade yourself" comes from, which is also seen as "you're a doofus, Tav" - no way, geez. That would be dark love. Besides he's still wounded inside from 200 years of suffering. His self-esteem is low. Astarion hasn't lost his complexity with the ritual….

Astarion is still Astarion, and with Tav, who agrees and supports him, he is happy. Without Tav, he's more lonely.

Okay, so what about when Astarion says, after you break up with him after Ascension that he would've twisted your love and that he respects you for your choice? Because to me that reads clear as day.

Heh, alright, let's talk about this.

You can read this convo in three ways:

1 - you read it as it is, that the moment he ascended his love for Tav immediately turned malicious which is... such a braindead take I cannot even comprehend how people completely miss who Astarion is as a person the moment he ascends. He's not a different person, not fully and not entirely. He's changed, but he's not different.

2 - you can read it as Astarion being genuine and I mean that he still says what he means but with no malice behind his words. That he truly thinks that in the long run - he would've "corrupted" Tav and their love for him because he's self aware for only that conversation and suddenly realizes that he's a horrible person now (lol)

or

3 - you can see him as coping. First he yells at Tav and flaunts his power, telling how he could've turned them against their will, how he's better without them, how he doesn't need them. I have issue with the whole post break-up conversation (when you refuse to be his spawn) and about how one sided it is. You either tell him he's Cazador 2 (which is utterly absurd but I won't go into that here) or you tell him that you miss the boy he was before ascension which not only shows that Tav haven't listened to a single thing when Ritual of Profane Ascension was discussed AND has an unhealthy view of this man in the first place. Not to mention that you call him a boy, you know, something Cazador did to demean his manhood and independence? Yeah, that. And then somehow people are surprised when he doesn't respond positively. He's not Gale, he's not going to cry in the corner, not anymore. He's stronger and more powerful than he ever was and he won't let Tav who just abandoned him see that he's hurting.

So why the responses about ruining Tav's love and respecting them for the choice? Timing. First he lashes out and shows his fangs like an animal, showing that it doesn't phase him. Only some long rests later he will talk to you when he's calmer. Do you think he's hurting any less? I don't think so. He's hurting, badly. The only person he ever trusted, loved and truly wanted in his life just up and left him, citing how he's "not the same person" anymore. Telling him that they love him exclusively just for certain traits and habits, that his worth resides only in certain aspects of his state of being. Tav is telling him that when he's afraid, when he's weak and when he's unsure and lost is what they prefer. Does that sound right to you?

So what does Astarion can even say in this moment? He still loves Tav, elves rarely fall out of love or remarry, no way his love faded in a mere matter of a handful of days. He loves them, dearly and he's in pain. And now that his anger is lesser after being initially dumped - he still tries to do right by Tav. He tells Tav all the things they want to hear: that he's awful, a monster, that he would've twisted their love. He takes on this image that Tav projects onto him and he wears it as a badge because he knows he cannot have them back, that's settled, but the least he can do is not make Tav regret their choices, either now or later. For their sake.

(and sorry if I'm forward but I'd also like to hear your thoughts on this @bananasfosterparent if you don't mind!)

Please, people, Astarion wasn't even written as a complete victim. Digital Artbook As far as I know it's " inactual", but it's go with the xbox in physical form. And I want to reason in a different vector. Astarion Decadent and Dangerous Two hundred years ago, Astarion was a corrupt elite of Baldur’s Gate with a taste for power and a hunger for eternal life.

Swen said 3 years ago about Astarion: „A disgraced nobleman who used his position as a local magistrate to serve a vampire clan by feeding them prisoners, he was eventually too corrupt even for them and was effectively sent to serve as the personal slave of a powerful vampire.” Let's omit it, because there's not much about it. But it happened once Artbook only. When a character you have a taste for eternal life - it's already a signal that he's not very heroic. Eternal life - more often than not has a big cost. Astarion was no fool not to realize that. And since he was corrupted - I'm sure he understood it perfectly well. That's why he contacted the vampire clan. And fell very painfully. The game is silent about his past now. (Maybe because Astarion as a magistrate couldn't get realized in the game without the Upper City) But if you start questioning the little vampire you suddenly become… "victim blaming" Heavens, no, not this again. The man is literally immoral, which is what Neil was talking about, too. He sold prisoners in the middle ages of fantasy, they either rotted in prison or awaited execution. But this act is not the kindest thing in the world. It's a dark gray character. You act like a bastard, but there's an even bigger bastard on top of you. And you either 1 - learn the "morally correct" lesson, or 2 - you seek to gain even more power, reinforcing your beliefs that power and strength will allow you to do whatever you want, and no one will dare to make a peep in your way. And 2 does make sense, because to me that's literally the meaning of Dark Fantasy - the dangerous world, the genre itself: an atmosphere of horror and dread. I guess you must to swear on blood that you are considering a character with this information - to say anything other than dogma. If the player wants his castle and power - Astarion approves this in Act 3 successfully too. He's a fictional vampire, you can say about him however you want and from whatever point of view you want.

Astarion was well aware always that power was a fun tool to have. That's why he was a Magistrate, it's still in the game.

We must have ONE evil male character for the "evil path" in this game, who is truly "Evil" in himself (among other things), deep inside, meaning he wants to take power, pleasure and kill on his own. That's Astarion.

Thinking about how Astarion constantly blames Cazador for taking things away (the eye color he forgot, the reflection he doesn't have, for turning him into a vampire) but it's like... it was his own choice to become a spawn. He makes it out to be as if he was given no choice - not true. Vampire lore is known in Baldur's Gate and I will assume here (and build on this) that it was known 200 years ago as well. With that logic - Astarion knew perfectly well what becoming a vampire will entail if not what will being a spawn to a vampire lord will.

So no, Cazador didn't take things from Astarion, he gave them up willingly for immortality and then didn't like that Cazador didn't pamper him like a spoiled brat. Vampires are evil aligned in dnd, it's a fact, Astarion must've known that it's not going to be wine and roses if he signs up and yet he still did. What that says about who he was before becoming a spawn? Quite a bit but that's not what I'm talking about here.

Point is - Astarion rarely takes any accountability for being a vampire, for choosing to be a vampire and blames everyone and everything for his own choices. Cazador didn't take away things, Astarion surrendered them. How Astarion is presented to Tav is through a very human lens and that's why he succeeds making people hate Cazador. But I have been fan of vampires since I was a little kid, my perspective is simply this - he is pathetic as a spawn, he rebels after he doesn't like what he himself signed up for and when he gets punished for it he again blames Cazador for doing what a vampire lord just... simply does - manages his spawn to keep them in toe. Yes, Cazador is awful even by vampiric standards but it just shows that he's not a great leader of his coven lol. Maybe he's only this much sadistic because he has no other way to control the spawn. But I digress.

My point is - whole sob story Astarion presents and that so many fans eat right out of his palm is him refusing to take accountability for his own choices. And that's why ascension is something he desires and will achieve if not talked out of by Tav (with a dice roll when helping him right away requires none of that iirc). He wants power and he wants freedom and again, by vampire standards he's just getting what every vampire desires, there's no amorality involved because morals are already shady at best for vampires as a whole. The whole discourse about Astarion ascending or not literally only comes from human houlier-than-thou attitudes and ignoring that yes, Astarion is an awful person from the very beginning. I mean who attacks you with a fucking knife when you have your back turned? Even Lae'zel faces you upfront. Who attacks you in the night for blood instead of talking? His excuse is lame too "oh you would've staked me" and finding him bent over tav's sleeping form with horrible intentions would not lead to that? You even have an option to stake him several times during the whole scene. He's deceptive, manipulative and he will weasel and lie in every interaction to protect himself. He's not your little meow meow or whatever, he's a vampire. And Astarion himself says that he would trust a devil over a vampire any day.

So all the girlies who think Astarion is this cuddly prince that suddenly becomes a monster the moment he's allowed to become who he always was meant to be just get a reality check. He isn't changed, he's just showing his true colors and finally coming into power that he craved for so long (not ascension per se, just power in general and ascension gives him ultimate power). Does he deserve it - that's another matter. But he craves it and needs it. To quote Astarion himself: "Because those with power can do whatever the Hells they want."

And he's right.

I agree, I love the dark side of all Astarions so much. Asc Astarion is good. I'll say this. Asc A is one of the best characters I've seen. Asc is not an evil-sphere. He can even do something good. Because it was like that from Act 1.

Already the writers have said that his evil side has intensified, and it always has. Reinforced why? 1 - Devil magic voodoo-hoodoo. 2 - The rules of a true vampire (how it works with Ascension?) 3 - Astarion got what he wanted and doesn't hold back at all. Probably playing the Lord and Master he wanted to be and how he saw himself. Honestly, that's the way noble behaves, many of them.

If it's 2. He's a true vampire - a horrible monster with no feelings, no soul. That's how Faerun sees all spawn. Need I say what a romance with a vampire is and why people are interested in it. Because it's never pure, it's dangerous and it's always complicated. And the fact that he was a magistrate. (probably not the best in BG) He ruled as he wished and now the world is judging him for his vampirism. So, in the ascension, he (we) chose "evil power". The way the fandom reacts furiously to this…. When they were already with him. Character can only be a "gooder" but if you don't fix yourself we'll kill you at the party and laugh. Ironic. Some people don't want to see something complicated just that they failed to fix. Who sees is delulu, of course. And if someone don't die and get the "evil power" they suffer endlessly, will be miserable and eventually the lightning of justice will kill them. Purity culture. Mikimaus' ears in the moon spots. Honestly for me Dark Fantasy is where evil can take triumph. For me, the whole point of the character is "evil" can also be complex, just like "good".

If you attack ascended Astarion at the epilogue party as a mindflayer, all the rest of the companions will join in the attack with you. Which doesn't make a ton of sense from my perspective because frankly, they should all be just as scared of mindflayer Tav as they are of ascended Astarion, if not even more so. Let's just be real and admit that Astarion, as "mean" as he is when he breaks up with mindflayer Tav, is 100% correct. Tav is not Tav anymore. Ilithids don't have souls. They're not a person anymore. And Tav can prove it by attacking him out of the blue at a peaceful-ass gathering. Even Astarion with how cruel and egotistical he becomes when ascended is still more "human" than a mindflayer because he at least retains his soul and personality, as warped as it becomes. That's all besides the point, though.

My main point it I just find it weird how so many so-called Astarion "fans" revile in this scene and find it so funny how Astarion "gets his comeuppance" in this scene or whatever. And I don't know about anyone else, but I find this scene incredibly sad and tragic. Both Astarion and Tav have lost themselves completely (Tav even more so than Astarion, I would argue). And it kinda baffles me how so few fans of Astarion can see how much he's clearly hurting here as well?

He claims he hasn't thought about Tav in the past 6 months, and he delivers the line in a way that is clearly meant to sting as much as possible. People point to that moment as a "gotcha" moment that Astarion genuinely doesn't miss Tav. But he then immediately contradicts this a few sentences later when he says thinks all the time about what could have been if they had stayed his consort and never became a mindflayer. And that all his power is nothing without Tav by his side (paraphrasing).

"OH he's just manipulating Tav" why would he say anything that would make him look weak or vulnerable? If anything, he should be bragging about how GREAT he's doing without Tav. How awesome his life as a vampire lord is without them. And at first he does just that, the first half of the conversation is all bragging. But the longer he talks to them, the more the little hurtful truths slip out behind the hateful words. Like for as much as fans claim to understand that Astarion will often say one thing but mean another some of them sure are shit at being able to tell when he's clearly covering up his hurt with vitriol.

And again there's something weird about cheering on mindflayer Tav when their turn can be considered just as tragic as Astarion ascending. Like don't get me wrong I enjoy letting a monster do their thing. But it's like this weird double standard where mindflayer Tav's monstrosity is good and cool to idolize and joke about them wanting to eat the brains of their friends but the second someone has fantasies about being Astarion's consort they need to be psychoanalyzed.

And it's also ridiculous that if you even so much as suggest that hey, maybe there's more going on with ascended Astarion than meets the eye, maybe he actually is suffering in his isolation, ect. you get called a delusional idiot because people just really want to believe Astarion is truly a 100% different person from his ascended self when that's simply. not. true. Again the writers have confirmed the ritual didn't consume his soul. The ritual amplified all his worst personality traits that he already had.

I'm not saying you need to love ascended Astarion BUT if you love his character for what he is you should be able to at least appreciate him. You should be able to at least find him tragic and compelling. Kinda annoyed that many fans, who are seemingly uncomfortable with being confronted with this side of him, would rather turn him into a big joke or reduce his full spectrum of emotion to just "smug apathy."